How to convice my girlfriend that there is nothing wrong with psychedelics

[lurkerguy]

I got talking to a few of the nurses there, and one of them said that 80% of the patients in the 18-24 year old age range are were in there due to psychotic episodes from taking LSD or methamphetamine.

Bullshit.

Even http://www.freevibe.com doesn't make those kinds of claims.

I spent time in a state mental hospital, and I didn't meet a single person who had even took psychedelics.

90% of them got into fights with their family and did some crazy stunt to get admitted.

Most of them where all ready on anti psychotics before they came in.

What do you expect when you feed hallucinogens to a schizophrenic?

Of course they are going to have a hard time.

They would probably have a psychotic episode if they watched The Ring.

They would probably have a psychotic episode if someone slapped them in the face.

They are crazy people, they are prone to psychotic episodes by their very nature.

Crazy people shouldn't take psychedelics, crazy people probably shouldn't leave the house very often, crazy people shouldn't go through any kind of stress really, depending on the extent of their insanity.

That proves nothing about psychedelics.

Try feeding a Schizophrenic some hard liquor, and see if that doesn't bring on a psychotic episode.

Hell, booze can make people psychotic who aren't even mentally ill to begin with.

People who drink alcohol, but look down their noses at "drugs" and "druggies" and the worst kind of hypocrites in my book.

I could never be with a hypocrite like that.

Fuck them, yes, relationship, no.

I can just picture an asshole right now, a beer in their hand: "Yeah those psychedelics are bad news, make you go crazy, bad for yer brain!"

Meanwhile 60% of all insane murders are committed by people under the influence of alcohol.

Murders committed by people under the influence of LSD, mushrooms, and Cannabis combined?

Less than 0.01%.

 

[Samadhi]

So bullshit is your definitive answer then. Do you live in Brisbane? Have you idea of the issues methamphetamine use is causing HERE? Enlighten me, oh great sage. Have you watched numerous friend go through methamphetamine psychosis? It's a HUGE fucking problem in my city, so please don't say bullshit. It's insulting to my experience. We're not talking about meth, though, we're talking about psychedelics, so i'll get back on topic.

The nurse said that in alot of cases, latent psychiatric conditions were present, but the problem is that they were LATENT; i.e, they had no idea they were there, an experience with a VERY powerful psychedelic has tripped it. A friend admitted himself to a psych ward because he was using pot alot and could feel his grip on reality slip. Marijuana is a very underrated psychedelic. It can be extremely powerful. I know that i've hallucinated quite a few times after smoking some strong stuff (i don't smoke it anymore).

You say that you know 50 people who have various psych conditions who take LSD once a year. Let's just hope that in the future, that 1 time in the year doesn't finally send them over the edge. It's not only schizophrenia that can be triggered... people who suffer from manic depression, severe depression, and a myriad of other conditions SHOULD NOT take psychedelics, unless they are in controlled conditions and are being guided by a professional. Personally i think it's really fucking irresponsible to be fucking with their heads willy-nilly like that.



RE: The ring. In a mental health capacity, i'm fine, and i was scared shitless by the ring, so your statement is kinda moot.

 

[college_dropout]

*EDIT : For college dropout**

^^ Fair enough. Having said that, though, i would never say that to someone who has watched a friend or family member go through a psychotic episode due to psychedelics. My ex boyfriend's mother suffered severe schizophrenia and we'd visit her every second weekend, spend a few hours with her, buy her lunch, that kind of thing. I got talking to a few of the nurses there, and one of them said that 80% of the patients in the 18-24 year old age range are were in there due to psychotic episodes from taking LSD or methamphetamine. I could TOTALLY understand why their loved ones may not like the idea of trying it.

Regarding what you said about writing off the drug due to a couple of bad experiences... the problem with that, is that if the first couple of experiences were terrifying; either from what was going on in your mind or from an external source (people fucking with your head - that's happened to me), then it's very hard to let that go, and not have "baggage". It has the potential to taint your future experiences. Especially if you're with a group of your peers who have no understanding of how to guide someone out of a negative trip.

I've had a couple of horrid, horrid LSD expereiences, but that was due to nasty, nasty people... BUT i did try it again, more than once, with my husband and close friends. I just didn't get out of it what i used to.

My husband is reading "The Politics of Ecstacy" at the moment (great book) and Dr Leary states the same thing as you, that everyone will get something out of LSD, with the right set and setting, and guide. Now, i'm not the most trusting person, as a rule, but i can guarantee you that there is NOONE i know (including my husband) that i trust enough to guide me through an LSD trip... unless maybe Dr Sasha Shulgin or Dr Leary want to come to Australia and do it. This is the problem. People take LSD so willy-nilly, thinking they're psychonauts and end up fucking themselves up, because they're essentially left to their own devices.

I'm sure that things like alcoholism, drug addiction, etc can be treated with psychedelics... clinical evidence points to that... but in controlled conditions, with a qualified guide. Not at a rave or doof, or sitting around with a group of mates playing PS2, or at a house-party.

Aye. It can be very hard to let go of the bad trips. That's where flipping with MDMA is almost essential. It won't guarantee a good trip, but dammit, it gets close.

I agree with you totally about having a guide. And that's what I've noticed I've been missing from my trips. I haven't had anyone to really reciprocate any ideas on life or just to have fun tripping with who knows and understands what tripping is all about. I have not had one trip yet that is full of laughter or particularly theraputic (unless I do extremely high doses but it can go either way then). Doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, but there's something missing and you said it perfectly with just being left to your own devices. That's how it feels and I'm very inexperienced in learning to control it's awesome power for something constructive.

That's really inetersting that you don't even trust your husband to be your guide. But I guess you'd want someone with experience hey. I reckon it'd be creepy tripping around Leary. In the video footage I've seen of him he seemed a little....unbalanced. The guy would make a good guide though, for sure. No doubt he had a great understanding of psychology.

 

[lurkerguy]

The nurse said that in alot of cases, latent psychiatric conditions were present, but the problem is that they were LATENT; i.e, they had no idea they were there, an experience with a VERY powerful psychedelic has tripped it. A friend admitted himself to a psych ward because he was using pot alot and could feel his grip on reality slip. Marijuana is a very underrated psychedelic. It can be extremely powerful. I know that i've hallucinated quite a few times after smoking some strong stuff (i don't smoke it anymore).

You say that you know 50 people who have various psych conditions who take LSD once a year. Let's just hope that in the future, that 1 time in the year doesn't finally send them over the edge. It's not only schizophrenia that can be triggered... people who suffer from manic depression, severe depression, and a myriad of other conditions SHOULD NOT take psychedelics, unless they are in controlled conditions and are being guided by a professional. Personally i think it's really fucking irresponsible to be fucking with their heads willy-nilly likeif you ask me that.

More people get struck by lightning every year than check themselves into a mental hospital for Cannabis or other hallucinogens.

If your friend checked himself into a mental hospital over Cannabis he obviously has some serious fucking issues, that he smoked Cannabis is just a co-incidence. if you ask me

If you are having open eye hallucinations after smoking Cannabis, you are naturally insane, it isn't the Cannabis doing that.

I think you must run with a bunch of people who are born nut cases.

I agree with you that people who are severely mentally ill should not take psychedelics, smoke pot, drink alcohol etc.

But blaming their psychotic episodes on drugs is a huge stretch.

People that mentally ill can go whacko at anytime for any reason.

Otherwise they wouldn't all ready be diagnosed as crazy.

It is absurd to base your opinions on psychedelics, or any drug, on the reaction that an insane person has to them.

I met crazy people who went into a psychotic episode after they watched the X-Files.

So watch out, the X-Files is a very powerful thing that should be watched with caution, especially if your insane.

I have had bad trips, I have had bad nights of drinking booze, but the next day, I was fine and sober.

That is because I am not insane.

 

[Samadhi]

If you are having open eye hallucinations after smoking Cannabis, you are naturally insane, it isn't the Cannabis doing that.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post, after reading that line, becuase it is entirely clear to me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[lurkerguy]

Well, before you dismiss my post, I would see a doctor, because normal people don't hallucinate from Cannabis.

You giggle, you eat a bunch of food, you feel some euphoria.

If you smoke Cannabis and see little pink elephants running around your house you have some issues totally separate from smoking Cannabis.

If you want to blame your insanity on anything, blame it on genetics, not drugs.

Start a poll on this thread, ask people if they have all out open eye hallucinations when they smoke Cannabis.

 

[Samadhi]

Aye. It can be very hard to let go of the bad trips. That's where flipping with MDMA is almost essential. It won't guarantee a good trip, but dammit, it gets close.

I've candyflipped a few times, and the result was far more fun. The best time i've had, though, was MDMA and 5-meo-dipt. Crazy fun times.

I agree with you totally about having a guide. And that's what I've noticed I've been missing from my trips. I haven't had anyone to really reciprocate any ideas on life or just to have fun tripping with who knows and understands what tripping is all about. I have not had one trip yet that is full of laughter or particularly theraputic (unless I do extremely high doses but it can go either way then). Doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, but there's something missing and you said it perfectly with just being left to your own devices. That's how it feels and I'm very inexperienced in learning to control it's awesome power for something constructive.

When i first started taking LSD (jeez, about 15 years ago), that's all my trips were, uncontrollable, manical (in the good way) laughter about absolutely nothing and everything all at once. So much fun! Then they became extremely introspective, and then tedious. It really just followed a natural progression for me, the same thing has happened with MDMA. I really just don't get into the psychoactive ones anymore

That's really inetersting that you don't even trust your husband to be your guide. But I guess you'd want someone with experience hey. I reckon it'd be creepy tripping around Leary. In the video footage I've seen of him he seemed a little....unbalanced. The guy would make a good guide though, for sure. No doubt he had a great understanding of psychology.

It's certainly nothing against my husband... he's a bit of a psychonaut himself, but again, while he's experienced, he's not a qualifiied guide, and is in no way objective, we have alot of emotional investment, and i feel that could get in the way of being guided. I'd also not trust anyone but a qualified professional to inject something into my body, hence the reason why i've never IV'd anything. I probably shouldn't have used Leary as an example, i'd more say Shulgin. If Pihkal and Tihkal are anything to go by, then he'd be my top choice.

 

[Samadhi]

Well, before you dismiss my post, I would see a doctor, because normal people don't hallucinate from Cannabis.

You giggle, you eat a bunch of food, you feel some euphoria.

If you smoke Cannabis and see little pink elephants running around your house you have some issues totally separate from smoking Cannabis.

If you want to blame your insanity on anything, blame it on genetics, not drugs.

Start a poll on this thread, ask people if they have all out open eye hallucinations when they smoke Cannabis.

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=33

You've obviously only been exposed to some weak marijuana then, my friend.

Also, take a read of this:

http://www.answers.com/topic/hallucinogenic-drug

Particularly this paragraph:

Classic psychedelics include LSD (acid), psilocybin (psychedelic mushrooms), mescaline (peyote), LSA (morning glory seeds) and also Ayahuasca (yage). Some of the synthetic "club drugs" such as MDMA ('pure' ecstasy), 2C-B (nexus), DOM (STP) and 5-MeO-DIPT (Foxy Methoxy) which have much more specific action to particular aspects of the psyche are also classed as psychedelics, as well as cannabis (marijuana).

There is alot of information regarding the erroneous classification of cannabis as a narcotic. It's actually classed as a psychedelic. That's where people get into trouble. I have a feeling, though, that you'll believe what you want to believe, and this forum isn't the right place to discuss this, so i'm going to leave it here.

Sorry SLR mods for sending this off-topic.

 

[Nihilist]

For a Nihilist, you have a very strong sense of morals.

For a Lurker, you have a very poor understanding of the nature and tone of your fellow BL'rs posts.

*rolling eyes till I'm dizzy* I was being sarcastic! I was picking shit at the OP's apparent desperation and immaturity.

At the end of the day, I really don't give two hoots what happens. Personally, I thought Edvard's and Lost's suggestions were funny. Even funnier if the OP would actually be silly enough to follow them and cause some sort of drama for himself and/or his gf. *Shrug* all the more entertaining for me...

 

[lurkerguy]

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=33

You've obviously only been exposed to some weak marijuana then, my friend.

Also, take a read of this:

http://www.answers.com/topic/hallucinogenic-drug

Particularly this paragraph:



There is alot of information regarding the erroneous classification of cannabis as a narcotic. It's actually classed as a psychedelic. That's where people get into trouble. I have a feeling, though, that you'll believe what you want to believe, and this forum isn't the right place to discuss this, so i'm going to leave it here.

Sorry SLR mods for sending this off-topic.

I am aware that Cannabis is classified as a hallucinogenic.

That doesn't mean you have all out open eye hallucinations on it.

I smoke very strong Cannabis, I have smoked pure dry sifted kief, bubble hash, hash oil, budder, you name it.

I never once saw little pink elephants or things that weren't there.

With mushrooms I see things grow and shrinking, all most like the walls are breathing, and light spots in my field of vision, but never do I see totally crazy shit that isn't there at all, like some dude talking to me who no one else can see.

Maybe we are confused about each other's definition of all out hallucinations.

Are you saying you actually see things that are not even there when your high on THC?

Like little pink elephants?

Don't get me wrong, I get psychedelic type effects when I smoke, laughing at nothing, introspection etc.

But never open eye hallucinations.

 

[Jackal]

So bullshit is your definitive answer then. Do you live in Brisbane? Have you idea of the issues methamphetamine use is causing HERE? Enlighten me, oh great sage. Have you watched numerous friend go through methamphetamine psychosis? It's a HUGE fucking problem in my city, so please don't say bullshit. It's insulting to my experience. We're not talking about meth, though, we're talking about psychedelics, so i'll get back on topic.

The nurse said that in alot of cases, latent psychiatric conditions were present, but the problem is that they were LATENT; i.e, they had no idea they were there, an experience with a VERY powerful psychedelic has tripped it. A friend admitted himself to a psych ward because he was using pot alot and could feel his grip on reality slip. Marijuana is a very underrated psychedelic. It can be extremely powerful. I know that i've hallucinated quite a few times after smoking some strong stuff (i don't smoke it anymore.

That is a perfectly valid point.

EXCEPT of course that nether meth nor pot are psychedelic drugs.

If you, or anybody in your family has a history of mental disease then do no even think of using ANY drug. As LG pointed out, if you have a predisposition to either then you are best trying to live the most balanced and stress free life possible.

I do not feel that the OP is trying to get his SO to indulge in psychs, merely to have her accept HIS use.

For that all he can do is try to educate. Erowid, Bluelight even?, Bill Hicks and Popcorn

 

[burn out]

There are inherent risks involved with any drug use, even psychedelics.

this man is correct. trying to force your view on another person is wrong.

 

[lurkerguy]

If I drink 4 or 5 redbulls, I sometimes feel a little whacked out, with crazy thoughts shooting through my brain at a mile a minute.

I could see how very strong speed might whack someone out for a couple of days, especially combined with sleep deprivation.

Sleep deprivation is the ONLY thing that has ever given me actual hallucinations, and even then it was just something out of the corner of my eye I thought was a bug or something, not sustained hallucinations that lasted for minutes.

I would love to have some of those, that would be something else.

Samadhi, if you really get those, I am jealous.

Maybe it is different for everyone.

That being said, I don't know a single person in real life who ever told me they all out hallucinate from Cannabis, and I have been involved in some ungodly herb session with huge amount of smoke.

 

[Samadhi]

I am aware that Cannabis is classified as a hallucinogenic.

That doesn't mean you have all out open eye hallucinations on it.

I smoke very strong Cannabis, I have smoked pure dry sifted kief, bubble hash, hash oil, budder, you name it.

I never once saw little pink elephants or things that weren't there.

With mushrooms I see things grow and shrinking, all most like the walls are breathing, and light spots in my field of vision, but never do I see totally crazy shit that isn't there at all, like some dude talking to me who no one else can see.

Maybe we are confused about each other's definition of all out hallucinations.

Are you saying you actually see things that are not even there when your high on THC?

Like little pink elephants?

Don't get me wrong, I get psychedelic type effects when I smoke, laughing at nothing, introspection etc.

But never open eye hallucinations.

To me, visuals (breathing, tracers, etc) are different from hallucinations (things that aren't there).

I've seen walls breathing, plants seemingly growing, and tracers, etc while on mushrooms. I thought i saw my best friend sitting across from me and i had a conversation with her while on some pretty strong LSD. I've seen a whooole lotta crazy strange fun stuff on LSD, come to think of it.

While on cannabis, i've had a heap of closed eye hallucinations (once i thought i was in a Sonic the Hedgehog special stage...that was fun!) and another time, my eyes were 1/2 closed, and i was seeing this through my eyelashes, but with Jimmy Hendrix playing on the stereo, i thought i was at a Jimmy Hendrix concert, and i could see his image playing guitar in front of me. This was after taking a hit of some very very strong indica which had black hash mixed in it, through a bucket-bong. I can tell you i'm not insane, noone in my family is, so no genetic disposition.

Anyway, as to the original question again... if she has major issues with psychedelic drugs altogether, and it's something you want to continue doing, then there will be a problem. If, however, she doesn't want to try them, but is ok with you doing it, then don't try to force her... just feel glad that you've met someone who accepts your drug use... there are many people out there not so accepting.

 

[burn out]

If I drink 4 or 5 redbulls, I sometimes feel a little whacked out, with crazy thoughts shooting through my brain at a mile a minute.

I could see how very strong speed might whack someone out for a couple of days, especially combined with sleep deprivation.

Sleep deprivation is the ONLY thing that has ever given me actual hallucinations, and even then it was just something out of the corner of my eye I thought was a bug or something, not sustained hallucinations that lasted for minutes.

I would love to have some of those, that would be something else.

Samadhi, if you really get those, I am jealous.

Maybe it is different for everyone.

That being said, I don't know a single person in real life who ever told me they all out hallucinate from Cannabis, and I have been involved in some ungodly herb session with huge amount of smoke.

just check the cannabis focus forum if you want to meet people who hallucinate from smoking cannabis. i think there is even a thread reguarding it on the front page. 8)

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

^^my thoughts exactly. And as wizekrak siad, with ANY drug there are inherent risks. She sounds like she has her head screwed on, i dont know why you feel the need to convince her otherwise.

I agree. I would leave her alone..if you want someone who is into drugs, maybe you should find someone else.

 

[lurkerguy]

I agree, keep fucking this girl, but be on the look out for a more rational girl to have a relationship with.

 

[Samadhi]

Just because she chooses not to take drugs doesn't mean she's not rational. Drugs aren't the be all and end all of making someone. Each to their own, and all, you know?

 

[burn out]

I agree, keep fucking this girl, but be on the look out for a more rational girl to have a relationship with.

rational people are generally capable of seeing both sides of an issue (quite unlike you).

 

[lurkerguy]

Just because she chooses not to take drugs doesn't mean she's not rational. Drugs aren't the be all and end all of making someone. Each to their own, and all, you know?

She chooses not to take certain drugs, while having no problem with the most dangerous drug in the world, alcohol, just because it is legal.

That is a symptom of brain washing, gullibility, passive support and belief in the drug war etc.

To each their own, I agree with that, she can make her own decisions, but I see at as bigger issue than most people I guess.

If she didn't drink alcohol or take any drugs, that I can respect, although not relate to.

But people who drink alcohol, and have something against other less harmful drugs, those people I view as retarded.

She obviously doesn't consider alcohol a drug, and she obviously considers alcohol less harmful than illegal drugs.

That point of view is irrational, factually inaccurate, and a sign of someone who believes whatever they are told by the government and mainstream society.

That I could never respect in a partner.

Anyone who thinks that alcohol is safer, and less harmful than, Cannabis, Mushrooms etc is on a whole different level, a whole different philosophy and thought pattern than someone who sees the situation for what it really is.

I would feel like I was fucking Bill O'Reilly if my girlfriend held those views.

It is the absolute height of hypocrisy, it is like when MTV glorifies and encourages bing drinking, but condemns Cannabis or any other illegal drug.

A drug user dating a prohibitionist is like an atheist dating a Catholic.

I just don't see how it could work.