how much AMT is a dangerous overdose?

[isthisincognito]

I was somewhat skeptical if I had good aMT since it was light orange coloured powder, and from my research I expected it to be white.

This is what my aMT Freebase looks like (Am I allowed to post images like this?)

NSFW:

But I was wondering - I'd been taking 5-MeO-DALT in small doses (redosing) for the few days before, but not since almost 24 hours before the aMT. Is this too small a gap? Would any after effects from the 5-MeO-DALT have any impact on the aMT effects (positive or adverse), since they're both tryptamines?

As previously stated, cross tolerance will be experienced. This isn't to say you need to up the dose to counteract it (this kind of attitude leads to bad situations).

My rule of thumb for people is leave roughly 2 weeks between trips, not everyone heeds to this, including myself, but that is my recommendation.

In my personal experience, I don't think 5-MeO-DALT is a particularly nice drug, but each to their own.

Is this sort of "hangover" from aMT normal?

Different people will experience different post ill effects, My jaw is agony for a few days following, but I have bruxism.

Does anyone know anything about the use of potassium and/or magnesium for the reduction of bruxism?

If I stay hydrated (gatorade and waters perfect), snack of fruit, and take magnesium I never get hangovers

Natural food is imho the way to go, be wary of citrus fruits interactions (grapefruit in particular) with drugs. I don't know of any interaction with aMT though.

Gatorade/Lucozade (basically any isotonic sports drink) is great for all hangovers (especially alcohol!), essentially just replenishing electrolytes. I hear coconut water is great too, but I don't know if it's better than a sports drink.

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ I'm almost positive your allowed to post pics like that. Anyways yup, almost all freebase I've gotten looks like the aMT in the first pic except for a really old batch a few years ago that was brown. Also when I said "brown to light brown" I meant brown to ligh orange and the newer batches were bright orange so if anyone has the orange stuff, it's very likely to be aMT. aMT is probably the easiest chem to identify IMO.

Different people will experience different post ill effects, My jaw is agony for a few days following, but I have bruxism.

Does anyone know anything about the use of potassium and/or magnesium for the reduction of bruxism?

I use magnesium with aMT every time and it really eases the muscle and jaw tension. It's no cure though, the trisma/bruxism is still there, just a bit lessened. I've never woke up with a sore jaw though. As for potassium, I've never taken suplements but I snack on bananas and fruit and never noticed anything significant but then again I'm not sure if a banana really has that much potassium.

So I bought 125mg of aMT freebase and took an allergy test of a very small amount (<5mg) and felt no ill effects for about an hour. I then took a 1/5 of the remaining powder in a rizla. Yes, I know eyeballing doses isn't advised but I didn't have scales at the time (I do now). In hindsight it could have been anywhere from around 30-50mg.

I just wanna highlight this post real quick, I understand that you know it's dumb to eyeball drugs but it's very dumb to eyeball aMT. Notice how aMT has a bunch of little rocks? These rocks, even the tiny ones, vary wildly in weight. That 30-50mg estimate could be more like 20-60mgs, also how will anyone find their sweet spot if they don't know what their dosing? I'm not trying to single you out, I'm just saying this so others reading can understand.

 

[isthisincognito]

As for potassium, I've never taken supplements but I snack on bananas and fruit and never noticed anything significant but then again I'm not sure if a banana really has that much potassium

100g of banana has 27mg magnesium (RDA 420mg I think) and 358mg potassium (RDA is 4500mg I think). Taken from the USDA. Although nutritional content would be highly variable, but as a guideline.

The USDA database is brilliant if you're looking for more natural ways to increase specific nutrients, Here's a search showing the highest products containing magnesium and potassium per 100g.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that potassium and magnesium together has some kind of negative implication (I think this was from one of the MDMA threads, it may have been less a negative implication but more that they cancel each other out in combination), but I'm not sure, I'll try and find something on that.

how will anyone find their sweet spot if they don't know what their dosing

This point is massively important, if you're eyeballing, you're playing russian roulette with good and bad experiences. If you're smart with your dosing the odds will forever be in your favour of good experience and happy times

That's not to say it's risk free, but that's life. People go on living by minimising risk, in every aspect of their life.

A little personal experience: Someone put a gram of MDAT in a bomb for me, that was the last time I ever blindly dosed anything. I've never felt so awful in my life, and I suffered the repercussions for weeks.

 

[Ganj]

I was a little worried that the capsules may not be evenly distributed so didnt want to mention halfing them. Just a note I recently found out I have a lot of traits of ADD... Im going to see someone about it but does this in anyway effect this?

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ Since you know for sure the capsule contains 60mgs you can eyeball your dose from that, the problem comes when people eyeball from large amounts as they can eyeball what they think is 50mgs but in reality it's 100+mgs, even if you dosed all 60mgs your health won't be at risk and it might even be your sweet spot but it's best to play it safe and take a small amount out for your first time. Also, are you asking if it's bad to take aMT with attention deficet disorder? If so your fine, I have minor ADD and it's never been a problem with my drug use.

I should say, I did crush up the powder in the bag so it was homogenous before 'eyeballing' it. I understand the dangers of eyeballing, but I treated it with careful precision - it took me around 10 minutes until I was happy with the amount of powder.

Like I said I wasn't trying to single you out, just thought it was worth mentioning for other readers. Even if the powder was homogenous every substance has it's own molecular weight so 50mgs of substance A can look way smaller than substance B.

 

[Ganj]

The freebase is about 3x cheaper kratom thanks! You just saved me a lot of money!

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ You made a wise choice, now you can enjoy your scale for other goodies, not to mention your extra doses. It's like your paying 2-3x as much for a cheap ass gelatin capsule when you buy individual doses.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that potassium and magnesium together has some kind of negative implication (I think this was from one of the MDMA threads, it may have been less a negative implication but more that they cancel each other out in combination), but I'm not sure, I'll try and find something on that.

I'm almost positive your thinking of calcium, my doctor said something simlar about taking calcium with mag and that they work off of each other or something like that... it was a while back. You may be right about the potassium though.

 

[isthisincognito]

I'm almost positive your thinking of calcium

You're right! I had a google, but there's ALOT of conflicting information about combining the supplements, and in what ratio.

I found this though which is interesting, although I didn't check the credibility - I bolded the key points.

Even though calcium is the contraction nutrient and magnesium is the relaxation nutrient, they are both needed for the relaxation cycle to occur. Large amounts of calcium alone can decrease magnesium absorption, and may even facilitate soft tissue calcification. Calcium and magnesium work together to provide normal muscle contraction and relaxation without muscle spasming (uncontrolled contraction).

I may try just a magnesium supplement and see if it reduces jaw soreness afterwards. Would I need to be supplementing for the week prior?

 

[《Plasticity》]

Yeah I also tried to double check with google but like you I found very conflicting reports, my doctor was the one to mention it to me so I took his word for it...

Would I need to be supplementing for the week prior?

I don't think so but it's hard to say because I've been on a magnesium regimine for quite a while now. I remember the first time I took magnesium at the beginning of my regimine I got a rush of relaxation so I'm assuming that it's not something that needs to build up to have effect, just make sure you get chelated magnesium or magnesium citrate as some versions of mag don't absorb very well at all. You can buy a huge tub of mag citrate powder on amazon for cheap, even if you don't find much relief of trisma/bruxism I find that since beginning my regimine I get stressed less often and my joints feel more fluid, whether that's placebo or not I'll take it lol.

 

[Xorkoth]

I don't get headaches when I rectal dose, I do often with oral doses though, at the end. To me, AMT FEELS much healthier than MDMA, if I use it responsibly (I used to abuse the shit out of it for like a year and a half in 2006/2007), I feel great afterwards (the next day). It is a triple releaser (serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine), but it doesn't seem to have the same mechanism of toxicity as MDMA does.

 

[isthisincognito]

I get headaches with oral dosing too (only ROA I've tried, so can't comment on others), It's like a tension headache, not hugely painful just uncomfortable.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Yup, I've also had some of the worst headaches with aMT. Typically when I plug the material I won't get any headaches but even this ROA doesn't guarantee a headache free experience. Typically these headaches arise during the latter end of tbe trip but the good thing is that an otc pain reliever like ibuprofen or acetaminophen (paracetamol if your from europe) will relieve the headache AND reduce the fever a bit. I was always under the impression that hyperthermia plays a partial role in a drugs neurotoxicity (at least that's the case with MDMA afaik) but I would sriously be surprised if aMT was in any way significantly neurotoxic, like Xorkoth says it just feels cleaner, not that this is in anyway a valid way of measuring a drugs neurotoxicity.

I don't really get hungover or depressed at all on the days following even heavy use... quite the opposite, I, like many others, experience a positive mood-lift and afterglow which is the opposite of what you would expect of such a heavy monoamine releaser. It is said that because aMT gradually releases monoamines over such a long period of time as opposed to the immediate opening of the flood gates that is the MDMA roll, that this may explain why many find that aMT just generally feels, and very well may be less toxic than MDMA... though this is just a claim with no proof afaik.

To play devils advocate though yeah it was prescribed as an anti-depressant in russia decades ago blah blah, most of the studies done were with therapeutic doses and people need to realize how much toxic shit gets approved by even the modern day FDA, let alone some several decade old, soviet pharmaceutical establishment. People also don't realize that aET caused agranulocytosis in a select few amount of people, whether this trait is passed on to aMT idk, I would think not being that there is no case reports of this phenomena afaik.

Also, not everyone who was prescribed aMT was abusing it so there may be a lack of complaints in prescribed doses (though I don't even know if that's true, alot of soviet established aMT info is in russian 8(), high doses may be a different story. I've definately experienced some pretty high temperature fluctuations with aMT, probably more than any other drug besides maybe 6-apb and don't overly high body temps lead to muscle degredation or Rhabdomyolysis? Despite all this I honestly feel that aMT is NOT significantly neurotoxic going by some of mt rather heavy use over the years though this is just my opinion (Xorkoth takes the cake for "heaviest aMT abuser on the net" imo so if anyone is gonna speak on the results of heavy use it's him). Some fact checking is needed (typically where there's an "afaik") so anyone feel free to correct any mistakes made in this post, I'm just going off memory which is admittedly hazy after many years of drug use .

TL;DR - I've experienced both headaches and high body temps, whether or not aMT is significantly.neurotoxic? We don't know but IMO I honestly don't think it is but that's MY opinion.

 

[Bare_head]

personally i couldnt think of anything worse than more than 50/60mg of the stuff (and that is for a tolerant user of the stuff)

i have used this chemical since 07, i still use it now and again but only in doses around 10/20mg.

anyone who thinks they need 120mg of the stuff is asking for trouble

 

[Bare_head]

I don't get headaches when I rectal dose, I do often with oral doses though, at the end. To me, AMT FEELS much healthier than MDMA, if I use it responsibly (I used to abuse the shit out of it for like a year and a half in 2006/2007), I feel great afterwards (the next day). It is a triple releaser (serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine), but it doesn't seem to have the same mechanism of toxicity as MDMA does.

nice to hear your still about xorkoth missed ur posts, how are you, drop us a pm sometime

 

[《Plasticity》]

personally i couldnt think of anything worse than more than 50/60mg of the stuff (and that is for a tolerant user of the stuff)

i have used this chemical since 07, i still use it now and again but only in doses around 10/20mg.

anyone who thinks they need 120mg of the stuff is asking for trouble

While I agree that 120mgs is excessive you gotta take other peoples chemistry and tolerance to momoamine releasers into consideration. What I've began to notice is that the majority (not all) people who dose insane doses of aMT are heavy stim/MDMA users from the UK and aMT is heavily cross tolerant with stims like apb's, x-FA's, MDxx, and cathinones. You will also notice that the majority of UK users use alot of MDMA or at least at high doses (from reading MED threads, again not all UK users) so they require absurd doses of aMT to find the empathogenic effects at a worthwhile level.

TBH as long as you keep yourself cool and don't mix any drugs that are contraindicated with aMT then it's not such a deathblow, however these people need to realize the MAOI activity at these high doses (which IMO should NEVER exceed 100mgs) may very well not be so mild like with lower doses so precautions need to be taken. Also, for me 10-20mgs will have me stuck in a long lasting fever with no euphoria or visuals, just like being stuck in the first part of the full experience which is the worst part. Personally I find anything under 40-50mgs not even worth taking and 70-80mgs is my sweet spot (of course after working up from 40mgs) so everyone has to find their own prefered dose.

I can say at 80mgs I've noticed no dangerous side-effects besides overheating but this happens at all doses for me and have even taken stupid combos that I don't reccomend witj zero problems and I've taken aMT at least 30+ times over the past 7 years. For a first trip I would reccomend 40mgs, anything less will not be a full experience imo, there's a breakthrough dose with aMT and everyone I've given 40mgs to has had a great full experience. it depends what your looking for, if you want to experience a full blown trip 10-20mgs just isn't gonna do it unless your extremely sensitive. 40mgs should give you a good idea of where you need to go from there but DEFINATELY don't start at 100+mg doses your first time, that would be silly. As always, start low and work your way up.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Well, thanks Kratom for that in-depth post, put me at ease a little

I guess it has its downsides just like any other drug; all the more the reason to treat it with respect and not abuse it

Of course, just treat the drug with respect and things will be fine, also supplements are your friend.... if your getting bruxism (jaw clenching) take some magnesium, if you feel your overheating and have a headache take paracetamol which is also a fever reducer as well as a pain reliever and maybe even take a cool shower. Personally I've had WAY more negative side effects with MDMA than aMT. A heavy MDMA session will leave me depressed for a few days to a week, cause fucked up nightmares, give me sleep paralysis, cause some anxiety etc... none of these I have noticed even after a two day aMT binge with almost 250mgs consumed in that period (NOT RECCOMENDED!!!). My aMT trips always leave me happy with a nice psychedelic afterglow.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yup, I've also had some of the worst headaches with aMT. Typically when I plug the material I won't get any headaches but even this ROA doesn't guarantee a headache free experience. Typically these headaches arise during the latter end of tbe trip but the good thing is that an otc pain reliever like ibuprofen or acetaminophen (paracetamol if your from europe) will relieve the headache AND reduce the fever a bit. I was always under the impression that hyperthermia plays a partial role in a drugs neurotoxicity (at least that's the case with MDMA afaik) but I would sriously be surprised if aMT was in any way significantly neurotoxic, like Xorkoth says it just feels cleaner, not that this is in anyway a valid way of measuring a drugs neurotoxicity.

I don't really get hungover or depressed at all on the days following even heavy use... quite the opposite, I, like many others, experience a positive mood-lift and afterglow which is the opposite of what you would expect of such a heavy monoamine releaser. It is said that because aMT gradually releases monoamines over such a long period of time as opposed to the immediate opening of the flood gates that is the MDMA roll, that this may explain why many find that aMT just generally feels, and very well may be less toxic than MDMA... though this is just a claim with no proof afaik.

To play devils advocate though yeah it was prescribed as an anti-depressant in russia decades ago blah blah, most of the studies done were with therapeutic doses and people need to realize how much toxic shit gets approved by even the modern day FDA, let alone some several decade old, soviet pharmaceutical establishment. People also don't realize that aET caused agranulocytosis in a select few amount of people, whether this trait is passed on to aMT idk, I would think not being that there is no case reports of this phenomena afaik.

Also, not everyone who was prescribed aMT was abusing it so there may be a lack of complaints in prescribed doses (though I don't even know if that's true, alot of soviet established aMT info is in russian 8(), high doses may be a different story. I've definately experienced some pretty high temperature fluctuations with aMT, probably more than any other drug besides maybe 6-apb and don't overly high body temps lead to muscle degredation or Rhabdomyolysis? Despite all this I honestly feel that aMT is NOT significantly neurotoxic going by some of mt rather heavy use over the years though this is just my opinion (Xorkoth takes the cake for "heaviest aMT abuser on the net" imo so if anyone is gonna speak on the results of heavy use it's him). Some fact checking is needed (typically where there's an "afaik") so anyone feel free to correct any mistakes made in this post, I'm just going off memory which is admittedly hazy after many years of drug use .

TL;DR - I've experienced both headaches and high body temps, whether or not aMT is significantly.neurotoxic? We don't know but IMO I honestly don't think it is but that's MY opinion.

Yes, the headaches do come on the tail end. I always thought they felt tension-related, I tend to grind a bit on AMT I think that leads to it, but if I don't do it that much then I tend to avoid the headache. Oral dosing gives more body tension than rectal, so that's probably why it would give me headaches less.

And who knows, I could be the heaviest AMT abuser on the net, in my past anyway (I haven't had it for probably 4 years). Probably on Bluelight anyway. I can say towards the end of my abuse period, when I'd use it for more than 2 days in a row I would have sleep paralysis at night and these incredibly vivid doomsday-related dreams, including one where I actually went through the whole struggle of gradually giving up that it was a dream. It was pretty intense. And then the day after my last dose I would get brain zaps (look up the thread in this forum if you don't know what those are), really intense brain zaps and have absolutely no energy, head rushes, and intense anxiety and depression. It would last usually 1 day or 2 if I did it 5 days or more in a row, then I'd pretty muxh feel fine, it was very short-lived (whereas when I abused MDMA that brain zaps/depression period lasted a whole month and was MUCH more intense). I can say that I never really felt and long-term aftereffects from it. I mean I have never even gotten HPPD from all the stupid amounts of them I was doing for a few years (AMT abuse period was a year and a half).

Not that anyone should abuse it. My brain seems very resilient to psychedelics, I wouldn't assume that yours is, a lot of people end up having at least temporary issues from heavy psychedelic abuse.

 

[Bare_head]

Yes, the headaches do come on the tail end. I always thought they felt tension-related, I tend to grind a bit on AMT I think that leads to it, but if I don't do it that much then I tend to avoid the headache. Oral dosing gives more body tension than rectal, so that's probably why it would give me headaches less.

And who knows, I could be the heaviest AMT abuser on the net, in my past anyway (I haven't had it for probably 4 years). Probably on Bluelight anyway. I can say towards the end of my abuse period, when I'd use it for more than 2 days in a row I would have sleep paralysis at night and these incredibly vivid doomsday-related dreams, including one where I actually went through the whole struggle of gradually giving up that it was a dream. It was pretty intense. And then the day after my last dose I would get brain zaps (look up the thread in this forum if you don't know what those are), really intense brain zaps and have absolutely no energy, head rushes, and intense anxiety and depression. It would last usually 1 day or 2 if I did it 5 days or more in a row, then I'd pretty muxh feel fine, it was very short-lived (whereas when I abused MDMA that brain zaps/depression period lasted a whole month and was MUCH more intense). I can say that I never really felt and long-term aftereffects from it. I mean I have never even gotten HPPD from all the stupid amounts of them I was doing for a few years (AMT abuse period was a year and a half).

Not that anyone should abuse it. My brain seems very resilient to psychedelics, I wouldn't assume that yours is, a lot of people end up having at least temporary issues from heavy psychedelic abuse.

i think magical-kat got bad on it, even going as far as taking the 5-meo counterpart for a long time, wonder how he doing these days.. i think ROA is definitely the way to go plus taking it not a massive dose at a rave your first time for example

peace guys

 

[Xorkoth]

He's a mod in MED, I see him posting there all the time. Yeah I recall he took 5-MeO-AMT a lot, it's basically a totally different drug, way more outright psychedelic, also way more bodyload.

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ Do you supplement with magnesium? 1g of magnesium really takes the edge off the jaw tension. The headache may be tension related but kratom doesn't seem ro help with the headache despite leaving me pretty loose and warm. I also get nasty headaches after certain phens as well and those tend to cause quite a bit of tension so you may be right, idk. Also, trust me, I know what brain zaps are and I've never gotten them with aMT, always after a festie with MDMA but I'm susceptable to MDMA comedowns nowadays. I never dose aMT over two days, you on the other hand have used it up to a week straight and explained in depth the crazy sleep paralysis exp where you would get out of bed and look really disfigured or some shit like that and kept waking up over and over again despite being in SP the whole time, I may be a little off but I definately remember this from the first b&d thread, that's when your use was at it's highest and I believe you quit towards the end of the thread iirc.

Again though I've never gotten SP from aMT unless I redose and take a small dose of rectal APB at the that but that's expected for me, SP is a side-effect I'm sensitive to. I've always wanted to ask you this but never thought I would see you return... why did you dose aMT for days and days at a time? Did it loose it's effectiveness? I would imagine once your SERT and 5-ht2a were drained the effects would be akin to a stimulant. I honestly think that if you had been taking MDMA as much as you took aMT you would still be dealing with psychological issues, bur that's just my opinion of course.