Health How bad of an idea is it to do psychedelics with mental dissorders in family? Proof?

[aberrant]

There's no telling how psychedelic use may affect someone with a mental illness... In my own estimation maybe about 50/40/10 as far as odds for negative/neutral/positive impact. Personally with my own depression I find that psychedelics can confuse me and give me conflicting thoughts about how I should live or improve my life. It's just too bad that they're so damn fun as well.

On a side note, I do believe that some psychedelics are safter for the mind than others when considering possible mental fragility.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

^I agree with this. I have never seen a psychotic break with mushrooms (not saying it is impossible) but I have seen it w/ LSD more than once. Could just be a coincidence but most of the stories involving psychotic reactions seem to involve LSD.

 

[anondragonfly]

Don't forget the power of weed either. The only psychedelic-induced psychotic break I have witnessed was because of LSD, but I am positive it would not have happened if the person did not smoke weed 7 or so hours after ingestion, which was just before he lost touch with reality.

 

[cosmic charlie]

^I agree with this. I have never seen a psychotic break with mushrooms (not saying it is impossible) but I have seen it w/ LSD more than once. Could just be a coincidence but most of the stories involving psychotic reactions seem to involve LSD.

I dont know if I would call it a psychotic break but I have had some seriously fucked up mushroom trips that left me jolted for months. They involved me dying and my soul being taken away by some kind of a demon. Really scary shit that I wouldn't wish on anybody. Ive tripped on mushrooms maybe 50 times since my last rough trip and they have all been pleasant. I'll never forget those bad ones though , they definitely changed my personality. I became kinda withdrawn after them for awhile. I feel normal again now though , whatever that means.

 

[morbiddoctor]

i had many a psychotic break when i was younger. probably upwards of 20. most lasted for around 5-10 minutes. i don't know how i didn't kill anyone although i easily could have if i hadn't gotten myself under control or someone else did. it all started around the time i started using drugs. it went away though. haven't had an episode in 3 or 4 years. i think psychedelics have a time and place to be done. i was not in the right place before but i think I've leveled out to where its safe. long story short, if you are scared of the 'drug' reconsider and reevaluate yourself before taking that leap.

 

[The Winner!!]

@Delta- I was thinking that the subliminal messages were being sent to the general public not that it was being registered into my brain.

My friends tell me that when I'm on lsd I'm actually pretty relaxed and handle it well, and I've been in the same settings while on lsd, so I doubt it's me being fragile or having a mental illness, so I'm thinking it has to do with the set I was smoking weed in, like said above to not underestimate it, it can induce some strong things

Also, I think that shrooms are more panic inducing than lsd. I've had one intense experience on my first trip where I just got too confused and starting pacing back and forth for maybe half a minute, I've done shrooms like 7 or 8 times and the rest has always been pretty positive. 4 Acid trips and they have all been positive, I have smoked weed pretty regularly for 2 years, some DXM experience and it has been positive, except this time now.

I think I'm fine, but I'm going to be hesitant to smoke weed during sleep deprivation after a bad day

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Yes mushrooms are much more anxiogenic for me as well. I have had difficult trips with mushrooms while my LSD trips have been intense but never frightening.

Part of it I think is the fast come up. LSD takes about 2 hours to peak for me but when I take mushrooms the come up is so quick and intense that I am tripping face in about 40 minutes. Can be very disorienting especially combined with the nausea I sometimes get from shrooms.

 

[Flarestar89]

Hey, I have a source ya'll might find interesting:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=psychedelic-healing


I was in a rush when I posted previously, this is what I was referencing. I definitely spoke more broadly than I should have with only this article as a reference, but I know I've read something else that talked about how psychedelics affect mental disorders, but that was a few years ago now...

"Current studies are focusing on psychedelic treatments for cluster headaches, depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), severe anxiety in terminal cancer patients, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), alcoholism and opiate addiction. "

"Although we are still in the early days of psychedelic therapy research, the initial data show considerable promise. A growing number of scientists believe that psychedelic drugs may offer safe and effective help for people with certain treatment-resistant psychiatric disorders and could possibly help some people who receive partial relief from current methods to obtain a more complete healing."

 

[fastandbulbous]

Psychedelics cannot cure any form of mental illness; mental illness cannot be 'cured'

Depends upon the illness. Psychotic illnesses such as manic depression, schizophrenia can't, they can only be managed, but things like PTSD (& a load of neurotic illnesses) can be effectively cured as a few well managed doses of a psychedelic or an entactogen in the hands of a skilled therapist can stop the distressing symptoms without requiring any more doses of the drug or continued therapy. 'Mental illness' is a very broad term and can effectively cover conditions ranging from nail biting all the way through to catatonic schizoid states


As to whether to use them knowing that certain psychiatric conditions exist in your family is one of the most important aspects and not something to be taken lightly. Despite unmasking my manic depression (probably much earlier than it would have shown itself & possibly with more severity), I still think I've benefitted in the long run as I was a real mess when I was younger (losing your hand when you're 13 does things to your body image & self esteem most people couldn't begin to comprehend)

 

[The Winner!!]

So do you people think it's me, or the drugs/sleep deprivation?

 

[Shambles]

there is schizophrenia, ADD, manic deppresion, bipolar and anxiety dissorders and probably much more running in my family

All these pathological pleasures and many more of their ilk run rampant through both sides of my family. As with others, drugs - and psychedelics in particular - saved me from very Bad Things. Before I learnt how to self-medicate effectively and in less self-harmful fashion than I used to previously, I was a bit of a mess to say the least. I also had an extensive history of mental health issues. Now, I'm still a bit of a mess but so very much healthier in mind (and possibly even body ) that I am all but unrecognisable and far happier, more functional and just plain better than I could have ever hoped to be

Oh, and in case it may be relevant, very few of my nutty, fucked-up and deeply damaged family have used drugs psychedelic or otherwise... Although I did have an uncle who died after jumping out of a window on acid in the 60s. Yup, he was the one :D

if one in my position is already not psychotic, could one still become?

Most assuredly. Then again, anybody could become psychotic with no prior warning or family history required with or without drugs so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it

If I'm not becoming insane, then doesn't this prove that psychedelic psychotic episodes are something that can just happen under bad pretenses with the influence of a psychedelic headspace, and doesn't have to do with a "latent mental dissorder", which in my eyes is just a way to blame the drugs on a person who is already mental.

Nup, doesn't prove owt beyond the fact that you are one of the countless thousands who have used psychedelic drugs - despite the potential problems that a fella with a family history as yours could flag up - and experienced no obviously horrendous issues so far. Congrats! Welcome to the club :D

I also agree with the fact that drugs are made a scapegost for a many an unfortunate thing that befalls folks when they are not the underlying cause of it at all. I also have no problems accepting that drugs can most certainly be harmful to some - especially those who may be predisposed health problems - sometimes.

is it possible that it was just the drugs and sleep deprivation+my bad mindstate that made me have such a mental experience?

I would say that it was not only possible that sleep deprivation and bad mindset were the possible cause of your bad experience but the probable cause

 

[The Winner!!]

Thanks dude, I think this thread is done with

 

[Shambles]

Unless others find it useful, of course. So for that reason, I'll leave it open for now if you don't mind

 

[glenda17]

I am a paranoid schizo with other issues. Psychedelics are no problem, but weed puts me in the hospital for a week. Studies have shown than bad reactions to weed can predict schizophrenia.

Just avoid weed. Psychedelics are the drug of choice for mental disorders because you work thru them. Weed is a garbage drug that brings out the worst in people IMO.

 

[@thefam]

Weed + sleep deprivation can definately do crazy things to your head. Two huge nights of clubbing in row, didnt sleep the first, was absolutely exhausted come the 2nd night, but 0.5g of speed seemed like the temporary solution. Rocked home to an empty house at about 6am, decided i would chop up a few cones to send me into bye bye land for a long sleep. Finished my 2nd cone and thought to myself "fuck i'm stoned" by the 3rd i was sketching out, hearing footsteps coming round the house, voices of my family and neighbours in my head. I literally ran at full sprint to my bed, heart pounding, and slept for a solid 24hrs, at which point everything was rather normal again.

 

[ElCityRoller]

Well, I recenlty got diagnosed Manic Depressive, OCD, and Bi-polar. I have done shrooms on numerous occaisions without incident. Although, about 2 weeks ago, while already on Seroquel XR, I skipped my pills that day, and did about 3 or 4 hits of acid. Was fine and dandy, until the comedown.. and I became unglued. Horribly Unglued. I should also mention that I did the acid in an attempt not to feel how I had been feeling, not to enjoy the trip.

Everybody is different though.. and you should probably NOT do it. If you feel you need to do it, do it as responsibly as you can. Have a trip sitter. Start very low in dosage. Also I don't know how true it is, but apparantly Seroquel will put an end to a psychadelic trip. I would research that if I were you though.

Just be safe!

 

[marti1317]

My mom's uncle was schitzophrenic and commited suicide in his forties.
My dad and his mother are bipolar.

My sister (referred to in previous posts as a very good friend but since this thread has to do with genetic predisposition...) had no signs whatsoever of mental instability until she was 19 (scitzophrenia is known to 'show up' for lack of a better word, in the late teens or twenties). She had taken a lot of acid (i dont know the exact amount) and went into psychosis, originally diagnosed a schitzophrenic.

One thing I'd always noticed was that when I tripped with her or taken MDMA in the same dosage, she seemed to start believing she was a god.

These delusions of grandeur were evident through the most part of her treatment in the hospital. She resisted all medication and counseling, had to be literally strapped into the hospital bed most of the time....It took several nurses to restrain her long enough to inject medication. At other times before she was strapped into the bed, she would get up and start banging her head against the door to the point her forehead was swollen and bruised....

As for myself, I've taken PDs about 30 times in my life, and I've had bad trips but nothing I didn't recover from as soon as the trip was over. Just paranoia and dark thoughts were the extent of it. And I'm 2 years older than my sister.

 

[TheAppleCore]

I think that it really comes down to simply your intuition. You can tell whether psychedelic drugs are doing you harm or good, because they are very much capable of doing both.

My guess is that, if psychedelics ever start doing you harm, you'll very quickly lose interest in taking them.

 

[emperorofusa]

Depends upon the illness. Psychotic illnesses such as manic depression, schizophrenia can't, they can only be managed, but things like PTSD (& a load of neurotic illnesses) can be effectively cured as a few well managed doses of a psychedelic or an entactogen in the hands of a skilled therapist can stop the distressing symptoms without requiring any more doses of the drug or continued therapy. 'Mental illness' is a very broad term and can effectively cover conditions ranging from nail biting all the way through to catatonic schizoid states

You are correct. I had forgotten about such studies and the success that persons in the medical field had with treating certain disorders. Thank you for reminding me. I do wish that they would allow research with psychedelics again; I believe that better treatments for the mentally ill could come from such work.

As to whether to use them knowing that certain psychiatric conditions exist in your family is one of the most important aspects and not something to be taken lightly. Despite unmasking my manic depression (probably much earlier than it would have shown itself & possibly with more severity), I still think I've benefitted in the long run as I was a real mess when I was younger (losing your hand when you're 13 does things to your body image & self esteem most people couldn't begin to comprehend)

It is very important that persons who have a mental illness or a family history of mental illness not dabble with drugs period. I agree with this. Unfortunately, many people that I know from being in treatment for bipolar disorder and my past drug problem showed me that most people who end up suffering the worst were never diagnosed and there was absolutely no family history, like in my case.

It isn't so easy to know whether or not experimenting will bring out something terrible and unknown. Then again, I think that everyone who goes into experimenting with psychedelics realizes that he is taking some risk when he chooses to do so.

I don't think, based on my education, life experiences, and people that I have met with many types of mental illness, that anyone with a mental illness should take drugs at all. I have seen people who have depression and anxiety disorders pushed over the edge by experimenting with substances. Before meeting those individuals and seeing what drugs did to them, I never would have thought that persons with depression and anxiety disorders, generally considered to be less severe than bipolar, schizoaffective, and schizophrenia could be harmed so much from using.

And to reassert what I said earlier in this thread, I'm sure that my use of psychedelics made my bipolar disorder far worse than it already was. I completely lost touch with reality and nearly died wandering around believing that I was Jesus returned to Earth for several days and it was a miracle that a kind soul made sure I got to a hospital. I absolutely would not want to see someone have such a terrible thing happen to them unnecessarily. Mania with full-blown psychosis is no fun, especially considering the ruination that it can bring to a person's life. I am still piecing myself together from what happened last year.

 

[andrewgraff]

I don't feel it has a real difference when it comes to people with these diseases and those who don't. It all seems like it's about self comfortability. Even if it didn't, there wouldn't really be anyway to see if it had an effect because everyone is different. If you are really that worried about it, don't try it. If you feel that you can personally handle it regardless of your family history, try it and see how it goes.