Health How bad of an idea is it to do psychedelics with mental dissorders in family? Proof?

[The Winner!!]

Ok so I would just like to know, is there any proof that doing psychedelics is truly a bad idea to do with mental dissorders in your family, but not neccesarily yourself??

Because there is schizophrenia, ADD, manic deppresion, bipolar and anxiety dissorders and probably much more running in my family, which I've gone through bad deppresion and anxiety, but I find that through using weed and psychedelic, it has HELPED my deppresion and anxiety and I feel pretty much completely better in that field.. I havn't seemed to go psychotic, so what's the real proof that if there is mental dissorders in your genes that your goinna get it??

 

[Coolio]

I was probably going to develop schizophrenia for many reasons, if not for my heavy use of psychedelic drugs. It's in my immediate family. I have had a few drug-induced psychotic breaks, but I think the fact that they were drug-induced is what saved me. If I developed schizophrenia without drug use, I probably wouldn't have discounted my perceptions as crazy. Most schizophrenics actually believe their paranoia and hallucinations because they happen on a normal, sober day - I just thought at the time that it was a bad trip or cannabis-induced HPPD/flashbacks.

Combined with my extensive recollection of DSM IV symptoms, I am now to this day able to consciously push paranoid thoughts out of my mind while sober. I believe it's literally impossible for me to become schizophrenic now, as I understand fully how to ignore what I'm seeing and hearing and remain non-violent and mindful anyways.

 

[thadocta13]

go ahead and do it. i have and my dad is fuckin crazy. he's just straight schizo.

 

[The Winner!!]

I've done psychedelics for a few months quite often now and I have always had great, non anxious trips where I have learned alot about myself.

A few days ago I hadn't slept for 30 hours and was taking 30mg DXM every 4 hours for my cold, I noticed I was started to get a littly crazy, shadows creeping out, my HPPD was really brought out from sleep deprivation, I felt like I was tripping basically.

So I decided to smoke a joint and a half to relax, I became relaxed, having very very intense visuals, stronger than acid but less complex. I started to become very paranoid that people were watching me and thinking about subliminal messages on t.v, and I started hearing my family's voices and shit in my head and then I started seeing people in my peripheral that seemed to glow.

I thought this must be what a deliriant is like, the more I thought I would be fine and it's all in my head the crazier shit got until I decided I had died and am now in hell and that there is impending doom upon me in every imaginable way.

From then It's been 3 days and I've smoked about 15 joints and I seem completely normal, I learned not to smoke weed in an already tramautic set, lot's and LOTS of stress going on the previous day.

I cannot decide if this IS me becoming insane right before me. I highly doubt it though.
Is there any proof that if there are mental dissorders in your family it will rub off on you from psychedelic use?

 

[tBirdee]

i think that if *your* mentally stable, not having psychotic episodes and think your okay, i bet your gonna be okay.

im curious about these intense visuals, could you try and describe what they were like?

just try and stay healthy dude, sleep lots, dont smoke too much weed and if your feelin fucked up, dont smoke any weed.

the only way i could see a mental disorder being "rubbed off" on you is if you were really paranoid about it before you trip, i could see a trip kinda... unleashing the demon..

i duno lol.

 

[The Winner!!]

i think that if *your* mentally stable, not having psychotic episodes and think your okay, i bet your gonna be okay.

im curious about these intense visuals, could you try and describe what they were like?

just try and stay healthy dude, sleep lots, dont smoke too much weed and if your feelin fucked up, dont smoke any weed.

the only way i could see a mental disorder being "rubbed off" on you is if you were really paranoid about it before you trip, i could see a trip kinda... unleashing the demon..

i duno lol.

Sort of like hppd static, then it started becoming more of a glistening shine on everything like a rainbow, and it would get really strong and form brickish visuals and when there was stronger light from whatever in my room, it would shine out like into the center of my vision and become fat and there would be uncomplex blockish patterns in them formed of flashing and expanding colors and in my peripheral they would swirl around in weird dimensions, especially when I moved my head. It's sorta hard to describe, I could never ever describe my acid visuals, but they always seem to be less in your face, like there is a layer underneath everything in my vision of these things I could never explain, I just can't explain acid, usually a 'tribal' theme but it's amazing.

 

[feelgoodhit]

I'm really curious about this. I can honestly say I've had a couple more freak-outs than I'm comfortable with as a result of psychedelic inebriation, a couple being what really did amount to psychotic breaks. It really made me wonder whether I do, in fact, have some latent mental condition such as schizophrenia, and I even contemplated giving up psychedelics.

I've decided, though, that the benefit sort of outweighs the risk for me, and I don't KNOW OF any of these conditions in my family. (Though it's possible, as some of the older folks never went to see a psychologist.)

 

[The Winner!!]

Weirdest part of it I think is that I was learning how to control all 5 of my senses to full capacity at once, and I could recall sounds of songs and I could play a part of them in my head 24/7 over and over and over and over while I was doing things like watching and analyzing the strong visuals, and listening to all the weird voices and astral noises I was hearing. All while thinking of how everything is conspiring against me, and I was doing robotic movements which I thought that maybe might have something to do with the 250 odd mg of DXM I had taken for my cold/flu, and maybe why the visuals were so strong because of my sleep deprivation?

 

[johannes kreisler]

yes, sleep deprivation and stuff would freak me out too...
-

in general it's: nature <-> nurture. that means if you have "the genes" for schizophrenia that doesn't mean that it breaks out. and if you're not "burdened" it may break out still.
so: one cannot generalise. depends on what and who u are right now.

if u have a latent psychosis it will break out anyway sooner or later - with a high probability.
these are those people which one (if experienced in psychology and stuff) recognises quite fast.
noone can tell u whether PDs fuck u up or not without knowing you -at first place-, the psych stuff and PDs.
I personnaly have a good idea who is "suitable" for PDs and who's not.

there's a thin red line between sane and insane inside all of us, especially when confronting PDs. and before knowing your individual character no one can say on which side ur mind feels better...


btw: I'd like to help you but a drunk psychologist ain't good...
I've been dead-sick(insane way) for years, but never psychotic. up to now PDs are the philosopher's stone for me.

 

[sebukab]

I know someone personally who's become schizo after his Psychedelic / Cannabis use.
His family's medical history is unknown to him afaik; the guy never met his father.

I believe "going insane" is a legitimate risk of psychedelic use that should be taken into account by anyone using (or about to use) them, even if it is a small chance, and that predisposition to mental disorders certainly would not be making that chance any smaller.

Edit: I still use psyches, but I can only blame myself if I go insane :D

 

[johannes kreisler]

note: from my personal experience I think cannabis is more 'dangerous' if used regularly.
(friend of me had a psychotoc episode from thc, too)

 

[The Winner!!]

So pretty much what I want to know is, if one in my position is already not psychotic, could one still become?

My situation: Having done psychedelics quite often for the past few months and has never had anything negative, untill this one time combined with sleep deprivation and bad set, but good setting, had what I would call a psychotic experience- would it have been the same whether or not I have a family with many mental dissorders, though mine have seemed to be cured from previous psychedelic use.
Is there a high chance I am becoming insane as we speak?? and if so what proof do you have and under what circumstances are you making that judgement?
If I'm not becoming insane, then doesn't this prove that psychedelic psychotic episodes are something that can just happen under bad pretenses with the influence of a psychedelic headspace, and doesn't have to do with a "latent mental dissorder", which in my eyes is just a way to blame the drugs on a person who is already mental.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

It is hard to say exactly what is happening with you. I have heard of people who are quite experienced with psychedelics having psychotic breaks out of nowhere while tripping. I have not witnessed this myself but the stories are worrying. The fact that it hasn't happened yet is no guarantee that it won't happen.

This incident doesn't sound too bad from your description but the more worrying symptoms are the intense paranoia and particularly the suspicion of subliminal messaging which are symptoms of schizophrenia. It isn't about proving or disproving anything. I personally haven't seen any concrete proof or statistics but it seems pretty reasonable that LSD could have the potential to unhinge someone who is predisposed.

Like someone above said. It is nature vs nurture. People can have all the genetic ingredients to become schizo but they may not be exposed to the right environmental triggers to bring this about.

Also, I don't think that saying that someone who had a psychotic break had underlying mental issues is blaming the drug. On the contrary, people who say this are seeking to demonstrate that psychedelics are safe when taken by stable individuals in a responsible way. Maybe I misunderstood you when you said this.

 

[emperorofusa]

From my research, psychedelics CAN bring out latent mental disorders. They don't always. Ironically, they can also cure it. It doesn't always happen, so, guess you dodged a bullet. Congrats

Psychedelics cannot cure any form of mental illness; mental illness cannot be 'cured'. I would love for the government to allow research of psychedelic compounds again in order to hopefully find better treatments for mental illness, especially now that our medical technology is way beyond what we had in the 50s and 60s when such research was still allowed.

I live with bipolar disorder and I'm not sure if my use of psychedelics made things worse. I do believe that since I was a heavy user of LSD and pot a few months before my last hospitalization, the drugs must have made things far worse than they normally would have been.

NO ONE in my family on either side has ever had any symptoms of or form of mental illness, so you are taking a shot in the dark no matter who you are. If there was a history of mental illness I never would have used. It was just like *bam* and I found out I was bipolar suddenly.

 

[The Winner!!]

So delta, you think Im schizophrenic?
More detail about the experience I was hallucinating people in my peripheral vision and hearing their voices talking to me but I knew it was fake, so in my mind I kept saying fuck off, the more I did that the more things got more mental visually and audial.
I don't believe that I am mental or anything though, is it possible that it was just the drugs and sleep deprivation+my bad mindstate that made me have such a mental experience?
I kept thinking there were cameras in my room or something, and that they were in the monitors and t.vs and looked when we arn't watching.
I kept thinking Teletoon and Comedy Central had subliminal messages, when I looked away things would be all fuzzy and go all ZCCHHHH then when I would look it would go back, know how dumb channel always have that crazy shit all over. But then I realized that my brain was remembering exactly things would move on the channel and I would look, then look away in a perfect pattern... If you know what I mean, this is what I ment by I felt robotic at the time, dissociated for one and it was like I could just tell myself to do something a certain way and it would just program that into myself, like the ability to turn on music in my head, the quiet part of the prophecy anthem. da dun dun dum dum da dun, in this sinister bell noise.


So there is no doubt I was going psychotic during this trip, is it possible it was only because of my circumstances or because I am infact mental? The following 3 days, even while smoking a decent ammount of weed I have found I'm back to normal..

 

[swilow]

If your really concerned, you should stop taking drugs for a while, and speak to a doctor. Paranoid thoughts aren't really "of concern" (except for their pretty dark nature) if your aware that it was paranoia, and not 'reality'. Sleep depreivation ca cause almost all the symptoms you described really, but a break from everything (mainly acid and defintely cannabis) for a while will do you good. Just be mindful, and meditate or calm your mind if you get anxious, and remember all you've learnt

 

[TRPC5]

I have anxiety issues (probably genetic disposition, on the dad's side) and am able to handle low doses, up to 2-3 hits, but anything over that gives me psychosis and amplifies my anxiety into a full blown panic attack, even when I'm not thinking about anything negative, it just happens. A high dose of shroom trip was the culprit that initially set it off for me and now I seem somewhat more prone to panic attacks, even when I smoke alot of weed now, that used to never happen, but like i said, I can still have fun with low doses.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

No I don't think your schizophrenic, chill. I was not trying to imply anything like that.

I think that this most likely was just brought on by sleep deprivation combined with cannabis induced paranoia. The subliminal messages sounds a bit extreme though to be from just weed which is why I mentioned it. What type of messages did you perceive being sent subliminally? Did you perceive them as being sent directly to you or just hidden messages to the general public?

You said you took 250mg of DXM. Over what time period was this? Hours? Days? I dunno how DXM affects you but even small doses can make me feel pretty weird. Edit: nvm I see you were taking 30mg every 4 hours which shouldn't be enough to do anything significant unless your hyper sensitive.

Don't worry too much. It doesn't sound like you had a full on psychotic break or anything although only you can know exactly how severe it was. It is certainly possible that this was just a one off. It may be beneficial to take a break from the psychs and stop or cut down on smoking weed for a while though.

You did say you had a family history of mental illness so it couldn't hurt to be vigilant in avoiding potential mental stressors such as excessive cannabis use, sleep deprivation, and stress(I know the last two are hard to control). These are all known to contribute to mental health problems.

 

[Immunity]

As has been mentioned, there really isn't proof, concrete proof that your personal genetics predispose you to have psychotic breaks or worsen/bring out disorders you are you perhaps would have developed anyway. I believe that the psychedelics' power to aggravate latent mental disorders will differ from person to person. But, ignoring the various accounts of people using psychs over the years and having psychotic breaks would be downright foolish. What it really comes down to is your own personal situation, I feel.

In your case, I feel what you experienced probably had a lot to do with your sleep deprivation and the substance combination you had going in your system. But, as has already been said in this thread, if you're worried just take a break and get some perspective.

And though it might be completely useless to say, try not to get anxious over whether or not it was a psychotic break or perhaps you verging on schizophrenia. If you think you were, why not take a step back and take a break? That's pretty much all you can do, apart from maybe discussing it with a mental health professional, if you're that worried. Do what you can, and remember that what will happen, will happen.

Hope that helps, good luck with everything.

 

[egor]

I have quite a likelyhood of developing some sort of major mental disorder (I'm one of the only people on either side of my family not diagnosed as bipolar, schizophrenic, a selective mute or many other less common mental illnesses...). That said, Ive done a lot of psychedelics and various other drugs and never had a major freakout (drug induced or otherwise; omitting JWH-018 induced panic attacks) Not saying it wont happen, but it doesnt have to be a self-fulfilling prophecy either.