Hoffmans (and the worlds) first acid trip

[swilow]

Now, we all know the story of the peculair presentiment that prompted good Albert (R.I.P) to re-synth LSD-25. Its a classic psychedelic tale- yet, it doesn't actually sound like he is describing the effects of LSD:

Last Friday, April 16,1943, I was forced to interrupt my work in the laboratory in the middle of the afternoon and proceed home, being affected by a remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness. At home I lay down and sank into a not unpleasant intoxicated-like condition, characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. In a dreamlike state, with eyes closed (I found the daylight to be unpleasantly glaring), I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours this condition faded away.

Okay- he ackowledges two hours of CEV's, and we'll give it half an hour, upon ingestion, for him to experience the restlessness. I don't believe his journey home was especially long- lets say one hour....Now that accounts for 3 1/2 hours, which is well well under the duration that LSD should last for Even adding a few more hours to give him leeway doesn't allow it. IME, a dose which produces CEV's is realtively strong, and should not wear off so rapidly. I've just always felt this first report was somewhat odd- at least, it doesn't resemble the stories of an LSD trip, as his bicycle day eveidently was.

I'm not disputing that it was LSD neccesarily; more why on earth was that experience different to everyother description and personal experience I've read about and experienced...? Thoughts?

 

[PsyGhost]

A result of a small dose absorbed in an inefficient way such as the skin?

 

[swilow]

^Hmm. That may just settle it :D But- CEV's IMO aren't prevalent unless a larger dose is taken; by larger dose I mean 150-200ug. Still- LSD is LSD, and when it was in his blood, it should undergo the exact same metabolism as it would had he eaten it. It just shouldn't have lasted for such a short time.

 

[artic]

I have to disagree with you on this one, swillow. I'd say that OEVs (open eye visuals) like windows and doorways shifting, trees waving unnaturally on a calm day, bright colors, etc. would be evidence of a dose of 150-200ug. The restlessness, dizziness, sensitivity to light, and CEVs sound like threashold effects of LSD to me.

You would also like to point out the next sentence in Hoffman's account:

"This was, altogether, a remarkable experience both in its sudden onset and its extraordinary course."

Could he be refuring to the combination of swift onset and long durration?

 

[rike1]

Everyone is different.

I rarely get CEV's but no mater what dose i take, i always get OEV's.

And on a small dose i took one time, i was able to sleep after only 5 hours.

But will any of us ever REALLY know? I think it was LSD though... The man did invent it, I'd hope he knew what he ingested...

 

[fruni]

I watched a research video about this, and the theroy was it was a "placebo" of sorts, they did various experaments and none of the scientists were able to get acid to create any noticable effect through absorption, one scientist synthensised it with a chemicle or something to make it more absorbed by the skin and then PAINTED it on his arm, and got nothing. Ill try to find the video.

 

[Shakti]

I think his description is interesting not because he is describing something other than lsd-25, but because he is describing something utterly new and mostly unfathomable to the world. What a position to be put in, to describe acid to a world ignorant of it.

 

[amor fati]

I think if you aren't expecting anything, the presence of ANY effects would increase exponentially

 

[Ismene]

I've always wondered if Hoffman was familiar with the stories of Peyote and actually realised he was having a psychedelic trip when he first had the acid? Or was he just viewing it as a case of being poisoned by something? Perhaps if you're panicking that you've been poisoned you'd tend to tell yourself the effects had "worn off" a little sooner than they actually did.

 

[killo]

Guys the restlessness he's talking about is probably the come-up which typically has anxiety.

 

[Sturnam]

The Great LSD-transdermal absorption debate!

So, recently we've had some threads that have danced around this issue, and sorta had anecdotal evidence, but not much beyond that.

The only thing that I've found (well, within 5 minutes of searching) has been this transcript of a talk by David Nichols.

The highlights of his speech:

Swiss and German chemists have a reputation -- today and back then -- for being absolutely meticulous.

...

And yesterday I was talking to Nick Sand, and Nick said, "I made a solution of LSD in DMSO…" -- DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a chemical that greatly enhances absorption of other chemicals through the skin -- he says, "…I painted it on my skin. Nothing happened." A concentrated solution and nothing happened! How did this very meticulous Swiss chemist get the LSD into his body? I don't know.

....

The other fact we need to think about is when Albert was a child, he had a spontaneous mystical experience.

...

The only hypothesis I can come up with that's consistent with all of these facts is that on April 16, 1943, Albert Hofmann did not get LSD in his body at all. He had a spontaneous mystical experience!

I'll admit that it seems a lot less cool to think that the first LSD trip wasn't, and then he just happened to have a mystical experience.

I've also noticed that we have very very few personal accounts of LSD transdermal absorption. Most of the stories seem to be, "I heard about this kid that...." or "I knew this kid that..." And while I'm not discounting the possibility that they may be true stories, so far the scientific evidence says no, and there aren't enough confirmed reports to have me believin'. In fact, Roger&ME has said that he's wasted countless amounts of LSD in the pursuit of this high.

So, any guinea pigs with lots of acid to waste? Or maybe a simple 'yay' or 'nah' as to your opinion on this matter.

 

[swilow]

^Yes but then a two hour trip? Seems weird. EDIT: to killo

I have to disagree with you on this one, swillow. I'd say that OEVs (open eye visuals) like windows and doorways shifting, trees waving unnaturally on a calm day, bright colors, etc. would be evidence of a dose of 150-200ug. The restlessness, dizziness, sensitivity to light, and CEVs sound like threashold effects of LSD to me

Intriguing; I rarely get anything but OEV's from acid- usually just a pleasant warm darkness under my eyelids. I guess different folks etc.

David Nichols, eminent researcher- "The only hypothesis I can come up with that's consistent with all of these facts is that on April 16, 1943, Albert Hofmann did not get LSD in his body at all. He had a spontaneous mystical experience!"

From here: http://www.erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates4_nichols.shtml

My npersonal opinion is that he ingested it intentionally.

I'll admit that it seems a lot less cool to think that the first LSD trip wasn't, and then he just happened to have a mystical experience

I actually find it even more interesting possibly; a spontaneous mystical experience occurring on the exact day that he was supposed to have ingested a substance notoriiuous for inducing such a state. Kinda like time flowed backwards to warn him of his creation.

That or Albert simply ate LSD noticing its strucutral relationship to things like mescaline, harmine, etc.

 

[mrcraggles]

How on earth could it have been a 'placebo'? He would have had to have been expecting something for a start for a placebo to even be a realistic explanation. He would have needed some form of expectation to help guide his ideas about what he should be feeling and seeing. This wasn't the case.

As for not absorbing through the skin...well it could have been any number of ways that it got into his body! Perhaps a tiny amount got onto his hand, and the hand eventually went to his mouth and administered it that way? It could have been anything!

Sounds perfectly like a baseline dose of LSD to me.

 

[B9]

posted by "pharmahuasca" Izzy I've always wondered if Hoffman was familiar with the stories of Peyote and actually realised he was having a psychedelic trip when he first had the acid? Or was he just viewing it as a case of being poisoned by something? Perhaps if you're panicking that you've been poisoned you'd tend to tell yourself the effects had "worn off" a little sooner than they actually did.

Good point !




I think he simply estimated the time. At no point is there any mention of the passage of time being anything other than speculative.

I've "lost" hours on acid which passed in what felt like a minute.

So he was tripping & he wasn't as clinical with recording the experience as a good scientist ought to have been - shame on you Albert!



If this isn't conclusive proof I don't know what is

 

[massiveinminiature]

IME, a dose which produces CEV's is realtively strong, and should not wear off so rapidly.

IMO a low dose of LSD could easily produce CEV's especially if the person had not experienced LSD previously.

Not being a drug abuser can go a long way in getting alot more from a lot less.

 

[tribalDJ]

I agree that it must have been somewhat intentional, and maybe he even played down the effects to avoid negative press about his new discovery until he had more chances to experiment with it? Coming out and saying you discovered a new chemical that let you talk to god for 12 hours might freak most people out, while the short mild trip he described obviously would sound more appealing.

Oh I think there might be a chapter in the book Acid Dreams where someone asked him about the inconsistency of his first trip during a conference 50 years later , I wish I remembered what it said! I'll try to find out when I have a chance!

 

[Sturnam]

^ down play the effects? but didn't he tell his entire lab about his 250ug trip very shortly after it happened? I mean, his company created LSD as a commercial product for a good 20 years before it was deemed to be 'evil'. I don't see any reason why there was need to downplay it. Also, how did he know he was able to talk to god for 12 hours? his 'first' trip was mild, and only resulted in some small CEV's. i don't think he ever said he talked to god during that trip. maybe during his next one though...

i don't know if i buy the whole accidental/intentional ingestion theory. i mean, these chemists were extremely strict with lab procedure, not to mention the fact that they knew that if they absorbed some of these ergotamines, that it could easily lead to gangrene or the loss of some limbs.

although i will agree with swillow and say that having a spontaneous mystical experience at the exact time that he was working with it makes it more magical than it being 'accidental ingestion'. It seems like with the first, the molecule was calling to him, or that the universe knew that this discovery couldn't be thrown aside. with the latter, it just sorta sounds like he was a bad chemist.

 

[B9]

i don't know if i buy the whole accidental/intentional ingestion theory. i mean, these chemists were extremely strict with lab procedure, not to mention the fact that they knew that if they absorbed some of these ergotamines, that it could easily lead to gangrene or the loss of some limbs.

I would speculate that in the 30/40s lab procedure would be as good as it could be - however to actually know just how sterile their processes were would require some inside knowledge from that time.

To even seriously consider labelling him as "a bad chemist" is plain wrong. It fails to take account of the standards of the day. Even a few decades back industry standards (anecdotal) were woefully less stringent than they currently are - & that was OK because it was the best it could be at that time.

 

[swilow]

How on earth could it have been a 'placebo'? He would have had to have been expecting something for a start for a placebo to even be a realistic explanation. He would have needed some form of expectation to help guide his ideas about what he should be feeling and seeing. This wasn't the case.

As for not absorbing through the skin...well it could have been any number of ways that it got into his body! Perhaps a tiny amount got onto his hand, and the hand eventually went to his mouth and administered it that way? It could have been anything!

Sounds perfectly like a baseline dose of LSD to me.

Read the erowid link I posted. David Nichols, who kindly makes drugs for us doesn't think its possible that Hoffmann accidentally ingested acid. He seems pretty clued on. Personally, I think he did- the second time. His first description, which one would assume would have been made with relative concern seeing as he had no clue wht he was experiencing, and would have thought it was an ergot related poisoning- one would probably keep realtively close eyes on the clock.

But what clinches it for me is that Nichols suggested to Albert himself that he had a spontaneous mystical experience- Albert said "Its entirely possible".

He wanted an incative chemical resynthed because of a hunch; its pretty unlikely that he had only a hunch. Why would Sandoz have allowed him the time- remember, one great thing about LSD-25 is that, while it was discovered during WWII, the publication of documents regarding it happened in 1943, a time when it was clear that such as the NAZI's were losing power. I sense a vague connection there. I don't imgaine LSD being used wisely by such.

But- 2 hours. Has anyone here had a two hour trip, or lost time so badly (on a low dose of LSD) so as compress 10 hours into two- unlikely as he had a family whom most likely would have been mentioned, as they were in his more detailed intentional ingestion. Anyone? And if you have, it cannot have been LSD.

Look, if he had a mystical experience simply because he was synthesising LSD- that adds so much to the psychedelic experience, and what it means to life.

All that said, I still thnk he intentionally ingested a very small dose- all he had to do was lick a gloved finger while the technicians were in progress, and voila. I think he subsequently regretted the lase way that people began using LSD, and tailored his story so as to appear unfoolhardy. He's a hero of psychedelics, and I won't take that away from him. But this simply doesn't add up...

How on earth could it have been a 'placebo'? He would have had to have been expecting something for a start for a placebo to even be a realistic explanation. He would have needed some form of expectation to help guide his ideas about what he should be feeling and seeing. This wasn't the case.

You know this how? He was a brilliant chemist by all accounts, plus a thinker, mystic and spirutual guy. Why on earth would he resynth an inactive chemcial unless he a "strange presentiment" which he did, suggesting he did in fact know what it was that LSD-25 may do in the human body.

 

[dexingpotsmoker]

Hmm that is really interesting that you point that out. Dizziness, dream like state, those two don't sound similar to my small experience with LSD at all. And two hours really does seem short if you were able to see kalaidescopal visuals.