Higher purity crystal methamphetine

[tyrael]

^ What are the new washing agents? I stopped using ice before isop etc were introduced as cutters so I have no experience with them except to know that your normal acetone wash or A/B extraction wont remove them.

True. I haven't personally come across a way to cleanly wash gear which is cut (properly, see below ) with isop (although tbh I haven't been actively looking )

Also, if the cut is done "properly" ( ), it's not just a matter of mixing the cut with the active substances. It should be a chemical process!

 

[Christ!]

And tbh, she's lucky that's all the side effects she felt combining those two.


* AD's aren't only prescribe for just things like depression/anxiety/etc. there are cases when they have a beneficial effect for pathophysiological issues. however irrelevant, put it here for completeness.

Yeah I told her that it wasn't a good idea but she just said she had done it before...and there really wasn't any arguing with her. Was the first time I had ever met her so couldn't really do much.

I agree completely that if you're on anti-depressants, then taking drugs probably isn't a good idea.

What kind of side effects can SSRI's + MDMA produce? I thought it was only very slight risk of serotonin syndrome, but mostly that it just 'blocks' the MDMA from doing its thing.

 

[p-man]

True. I haven't personally come across a way to cleanly wash gear which is cut (properly, see below ) with isop (although tbh I haven't been actively looking )

Also, if the cut is done "properly" ( ), it's not just a matter of mixing the cut with the active substances. It should be a chemical process!

I've almost given up on trying to wash my gear. I haven't come across isop for quite a while now, but since then have found several several different cutting agents that are completely insoluble. Bit worrying really..

 

[headdah]

haven't posted in this thread for ages, since i dont get on it as much/often no more.

but i did got on it over the weekend and that is the photo of it

 

[drug_mentor]

I'd probably disagree with ya there d_m, more so on BL then generally. I reckon there'd be enough old schoolers on here who've been around long enough to see most (if not all common) cutters and neat methamphet (if not the specific enantiomers), and could discern the difference (relatively) easily.

Don't forget not everyone BL use/know/study drug recreationally A few formally study/work in the field also (and hence have access to things us laymens may not ).

As d_m mentioned, it's not just one thing which would give you the answer - smell, taste, "type of" smoke produced, melting temp., recrystalisation temp/time, "constituent division/combination" (whether the cutter easily/quickly divides from the active drug - common with cutters such as MSG [which has a low melting temp compared with methamphet] - and whether it recombines), plus a few others. Well, these are the "signs" I use! However, more knowledgeable people on here may be able to give more in-depth examples/suggestions.

I would probably agree with you to a good extent if it weren't for a recent wave of new cutters supposedly going around. I think even still someone might be an expert in their given area, where a few dominant pushers favour certain cuts, but its more than likely they could visit areas where regionally common cuts are uncommon or unheard of where they come from. When you are talking the internet over a large area there could be as many people mistake a foreign cut as one common to their area and overall I just don't see most answers being much more than speculation in a lot of cases. The days where most shit was stepped on with MSM seem to be long gone.

 

[footscrazy]

I agree with D_M on this one. I think even the most experienced meth users could only make a fairly wild guess as to what cutters a sample contained. There's so many variables. I have encountered a cutter which when puffed on it's own, had no effect, but if puffed whilst you were high on meth, had a simulating effect. So not only are you talking so many different cut possibilities, each separate cut may act differently considering how much is used, or what it's combined with. This also follows for melting point and smoke type etc - ratios and combinations could affect these too. Also there are the 'setting' effects which'll affect how a user 'feels' each cut. A certain sample might feel very differently on first puff than on 3 days up, for example. A guess at purity is probably more likely than being able to guess cuts.

 

[tyrael]

Ah, interesting fellas! Would be an interesting read re these newly amerging cutters and properties!?

Possibly a new thread d_m / footscrazy?

 

[psytaco]

Yeah



She would NOT shut up. Didn't give any of us a chance to just sit back and enjoy the MDMA and munt talk between ourselves. The main topics she was keen on discussing was all the fucked up situations she's been in (eg: beaten by boyfriend, how she got pregnant at a young age, how she was sexually and physically abused as a child, how every friend she's ever had has fucked her over...and much more of this kind of stuff)

Ive had similiar experiences like this, but rather on coke.

One guy spoke about his apprenticeship for one hour. another guy went into a 30 minute explanation of getting arrested.

my girlfriend can go a little overboard on the chat, but generally flitters between topics and will actually listen to people.

 

[p-man]

I agree with D_M on this one. I think even the most experienced meth users could only make a fairly wild guess as to what cutters a sample contained. There's so many variables. I have encountered a cutter which when puffed on it's own, had no effect, but if puffed whilst you were high on meth, had a simulating effect. So not only are you talking so many different cut possibilities, each separate cut may act differently considering how much is used, or what it's combined with. This also follows for melting point and smoke type etc - ratios and combinations could affect these too. Also there are the 'setting' effects which'll affect how a user 'feels' each cut. A certain sample might feel very differently on first puff than on 3 days up, for example. A guess at purity is probably more likely than being able to guess cuts.

+1

I reckon I've encountered at least 5 completely different cutting agents that were all new to me in the last few months.
But one of the most interesting ones I've come into contact with. Didn't re-crystallize until the bowl was almost cold pretty much burnt at almost the same rate as the meth for the entire time. You could hold the bowl in your hand, and the contents would still be liquid. Serioulsy.. WTF?!

 

[Hajime]

footscrazy: yes footscrazy ur right, hcl does vap... the vap point for the carbonate is a lot lower... also, ever wondered what all that brown shit is at the bottom of ur crack pipe is when ur smoking un-adulterated methamphetamine? its all the methamphetamine molecules and byproducts that broke apart in the process vaporising. Smoking ma-hcl works, yes, but u end up burning the crystals into brown paste as well as smoke... ma-hcl doesnt evap cleanly and I would like to get a second opinion on ma-carbonate releasing carbondioxide...

Anyone comment?

And just to prove Im not full of shit, Uncle Fester's Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture edition 5 (Chapter 19: ICE, pg.157) would argue that Im right.

 

[footscrazy]

footscrazy: yes footscrazy ur right, hcl does vap... the vap point for the carbonate is a lot lower... also, ever wondered what all that brown shit is at the bottom of ur crack pipe is when ur smoking un-adulterated methamphetamine? its all the methamphetamine molecules and byproducts that broke apart in the process vaporising. Smoking ma-hcl works, yes, but u end up burning the crystals into brown paste as well as smoke... ma-hcl doesnt evap cleanly and I would like to get a second opinion on ma-carbonate releasing carbondioxide...

I have smoked 99%+ pure methamphetamine and it left no residue in the pipe. Are you a regular meth user Hajime? I will check out that reference in Uncle Fester though (Uncle fester is generally not accepted as a very good synth guide, just as an aside).

Here is the reference for methamphetamine carbonate releasing carbon dioxide. It's also on erowid.

When you smoke a carbonate the only gas is carbon dioxide (CO2) a harmless gas.

Edit - ok, I've had a look through Uncle Fester. I can see exactly what section you used for most of your post 53.

It doesn't actually say you will have brown stuff left at the bottom of the pipe, it says this:

The regular hydrochloride salt is not ideally suited for smoking, as a lot of the product will get charred.

I think you are making a lot of assumptions on how much is actually pyrolysed. It's a small enough amount to be basically negligible. Source.

Residue from smoked methamphetamine hydrochloride contains pyrolytic products that are detectable by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS).

this suggests it's a small amount. Here's another source saying the amount of pyrolysed drug is small.

I had a feeling you were basing your post 53 on a source in isolation, in particular because of this part -

You can smoke the freebase and usually people use bi-carb soda/water to base their hcl crystal for smoking.

And sure enough, I see in the same paragraph of uncle fester this being mentioned, using the same terminology.

If you look, you will find many other sources all agreeing that meth hcl is effective to smoke.

Are you an experienced user of methamphetamine? It doesn't sound like you have much practical experience with it.

 

[Hajime]

-just a quick reply b4 I hit the road...
footscrazy: I dont smoke meth... but Ive seen people attempt to smoke white powdered hcl with limited success for what I got of the same amount iv... its like taking a butane welding torch to sugar; if put the flame straight over the sugar, it will turn brown v quick... if u bring the temp up gradually the sugar salt turns to a clear syrup.

its hard to say ur getting pure ma and even hard to know whether its a carbonate or a hcl at a glance... chances are most of the home cooked ma isnt carbonate but anyone doing a lithium-ammonia reduction will most likely have dry-ice... I dunno, my understanding of the market is that most of the ma-carbonate comes out of asia for the purpose of smoking...

 

[footscrazy]

^ How do you know the purity of the powdered hcl they're smoking? It's the cuts that are turning brown, not the meth. But, in the same way, you can reduce the amount of meth that is pyrolysed (although as I said, it's too small to even worry) by bringing the temperature up slowly so it doesn't get too hot.

Have you ever seen someone smoking pure meth hcl? I can assure you it doesn't go brown, and plenty of other meth users in here can vouch for that.

 

[drug_mentor]

Hajime dude, you are so wrong its not funny. Footscrazy has kindly taken the time to explain exactly WHY you are wrong, but honestly you would only need 30 seconds to observe how good quality meth hcl vaporises regardless of the reasons which it is clear you have NEVER done. Comparing smoking meth to take a butance torch to sugar?! Thats one of the most ridiculous analogies I reckon I have ever read and I am not trying to be a cunt, it is just so contradictory to my own experience and I really don't know why your claiming this nonsense to be fact with NO experience of your own?

Methamphetamine Hcl smokes perfectly fine, that is FACT! Uncle Fester is also not regarded as a particularly reliable source for synthesis information, he certainly isn't known for being overly scientific. I don't know what garbage your mates had, it wouldn't surprise me if it was cut to shit with sugar the way you describe it burning.

 

[Hajime]

^ How do you know the purity of the powdered hcl they're smoking? It's the cuts that are turning brown, not the meth. But, in the same way, you can reduce the amount of meth that is pyrolysed (although as I said, it's too small to even worry) by bringing the temperature up slowly so it doesn't get too hot.

Have you ever seen someone smoking pure meth hcl? I can assure you it doesn't go brown, and plenty of other meth users in here can vouch for that.

Im almost certain the cut being used isnt causing the brown residue, more likely byproducts of the ma's manufacture or the breaking apart of the ma under the high melting point the crystal receives from being bound in a hcl salt... also water solubility is spot on almost always... if u compared the melting point of freebase and the melting point ma-hcl u will notice a fairly big difference. the ma starts breaking apart before the crystal vaporises properly... At least that is my theory based on observation. -what uncle fester was saying about smoking hcl is reliable fact and as for saying that hes not known for being overly scientific, you obviously havent read the book properly... you wont get a better manual for making (meth)amphetamine both in instruction/recipe and explanation for why what happens... Saying the uncle fester isnt overly scientific is a bit of a stretch... he is the only person Ive read that actually breaks down chemical reactions with a step by step commentary (in regard to (meth)amphetamine)... its shame that more cooks haven read it.

 

[footscrazy]

Im almost certain the cut being used isnt causing the brown residue, more likely byproducts of the ma's manufacture

By products of ma's manufacture....in other words, cuts/impurities? What else could you mean by byproducts? When I said pure methamphetamine hcl leaves no residue, the emphasis on pure was intentional. If it's a byproduct turning brown, it's not the meth hcl.

You say you're almost certain. How are you almost certain? I'm interested to know what leads you to that belief. Do you have anymore sources apart from Uncle Fester, which doesn't even support your contention? Also, you didn't answer my question which was, have you ever seen pure meth being vaped? If you think the samples you saw turning brown were pure, how did you verify their purity?

I don't understand the relevance of this either:

also water solubility is spot on almost always

Could you explain that please?

 

[headdah]

Hajime: You're an IV'er.
Assumption 1:
Iv'er dont care if their drugs are being cut with smokable cuts like msm and the likes of msm or Salt or Sugar. As it doesn't really make a difference to the IV'er if its a smokable cut or not. In fact if its salt or sugar, IV'er actually gets an extra rush from the Sugar/Salt.

Assumption 2:
IV'er most times source their stuff from otehr IV'ers. So. if the stuff is from another IV'er, because he IV's him self, he wouldn't really care if he cut his stuff with smokable cuts or NOt smokable cuts. so concludiing my assumption. U probably only ever have seen stuff thats been cut with NON smokable cuts and therefore when u see your mates try to smoke the gear and fail miserably cuz its cut with sugar/salt/etc.


/end assumption ;D

 

[footscrazy]

what uncle fester was saying about smoking hcl is reliable fact and as for saying that hes not known for being overly scientific, you obviously havent read the book properly... you wont get a better manual for making (meth)amphetamine both in instruction/recipe and explanation for why what happens...

How many have you read, Hajime? Also, saying 'you wont get a better manual for making (meth)amphetamine both in instruction/recipe and explanation for why what happens' is very different from saying 'he is the only person Ive read that actually breaks down chemical reactions with a step by step commentary (in regard to (meth)amphetamine)'. (Emphasis mine).

These statments show your relative lack of knowledge in this area. If you did, you would know that most synths are not published in a book, they're not easily available, it is knowledge that is specific to those who know what they're doing.

 

[drug_mentor]

LOL Hajime dude, you clearly got no clue when it comes to meth manufacture, I am guessing you haven't spent any time lurking boards more appropriate for this type of discussion. Wasn't Uncle Fester a proponent of the supposed 'one pot' synthesis? which is widely regarded as an inferior and dangerous synthesis. Uncle Fester does know his shit (to a point atleast), but without me having a good enough memory to cite specific examples, there has been more than one occassion that his science was bad. Its really up to you whether you believe this or not, I can't really be fucked trolling the net for examples, but if you take his word as gospel you are not greatly informed on meth manufacture imho.

if u compared the melting point of freebase and the melting point ma-hcl u will notice a fairly big difference. the ma starts breaking apart before the crystal vaporises properly... At least that is my theory based on observation.

I don't quite get this? Are you saying you have encountered freebase methamphetamine? I have to say I have trouble believing that someone who has never even encountered meth Hcl that was good enough to smoke has had oppurtunity to observe freebase meth, a product rarely (if ever) seen outside of a meth lab.

Seriously dude, take a few minutes to THINK before you post again and I think some of this might make sense to you. There is nothing wrong with being incorrect, we are all here to learn, but you gotta be able to accept when you are wrong.

 

[headdah]

this debate can only be solved this way....

Hajime: you and i and maybe footsy and d_m need to get together oneday....

we'll have a burn. nice twirling sesshion with some of the stuff that I can get and then compare to some of the stuff that YOU can get.

then u'll realise. fuck, there is such thing as GOOD smokable meth. sometimes purity of up to 80- 90% I'm not saying everything I get is that high qual. but I am saying most of the stuff I can get ahold of. the quality is never lower than 60-70%. I know this because often either me or my mates would do a proper Tone wash and the remaining product is usually at least 50% or more than what we start off with