Heroin "It's so good you only have to take it once"

[3DQSAR]

Agree, except for you CAN overdose with opium.
I know because I have.

But it's usually more the case with oral consumption or poppy pod tea, where gauging the potency accurately is impossible.
With smoking you can at least titrate and stop whenever you feel like it gets too much.

I did specifically note that it was possible to OD on opium if taken orally. Poppy pod tea isn't quite the same deal. I understand that in a few cases, it was discovered that the pods used contained high levels of thebaine which is toxic.

 

[Bleaney]

In a decade long UK study less than 1% of people who tried H went on to become habitual users.

It strikes me that opium would be a reasonable middle-ground.

Although I've only obtained opium once, I see opium as carrying less stigma than heroin, in a way.

Even though opium is basically just the natural, unprocessed form of heroin, as far as I understand it, I'd be much more interested in having more experiences with opium, than I would with heroin.

I've had limited experience with heroin, I didn't get much of anything out of it, and have no desire to go any further down that path. I think it's probably the stigma that is putting me off tbh. Obviously aswell as not wanting to end up getting addicted to something like that!

I guess some people enjoy or dont care about the stigma of being a heroin user. Or maybe dont even think about it, I don't know tbh. But personally I think the stigma varies a lot between substances, with many having very little to none, as far as I'm concerned. These are just my own views though, and I know the majority of the non drug using population, just blanket stigmatise everything, with not really any discrimination.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

I did specifically note that it was possible to OD on opium if taken orally. Poppy pod tea isn't quite the same deal. I understand that in a few cases, it was discovered that the pods used contained high levels of thebaine which is toxic.

In my case apparently the unwashed seeds contained very high levels of morphine which caused me to OD.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Although I've only obtained opium once, I see opium as carrying less stigma than heroin, in a way.

Even though opium is basically just the natural, unprocessed form of heroin, as far as I understand it, I'd be much more interested in having more experiences with opium, than I would with heroin.

I've had limited experience with heroin, I didn't get much of anything out of it, and have no desire to go any further down that path. I think it's probably the stigma that is putting me off tbh. Obviously aswell as not wanting to end up getting addicted to something like that!

I guess some people enjoy or dont care about the stigma of being a heroin user. Or maybe dont even think about it, I don't know tbh. But personally I think the stigma varies a lot between substances, with many having very little to none, as far as I'm concerned. These are just my own views though, and I know the majority of the non drug using population, just blanket stigmatise everything, with not really any discrimination.

Having been a user and addict of both drugs,
I can tell you that opium compares to heroin the way a fine wine compares to a shot of neat spirits.

That's to say heroin hits harder and immediate, and also lacks a certain subtlety. Whereas a good opium high is a gentler as well as more multi-layered experience.

I mean what you do to get heroin is first isolate opium's most potent constituent, morphine, and then chemically tweak that to increase the potency and become even *more* easily absorbed. Opium on the other hand has an array of alkaloids and other components which interact in complex ways and none of which is artificially 'dialled up'.

I have enjoyed both equally. There is both a certain similarity (being essentially the same type of drug) as well as a distinct difference. Do you want to dreamily savour something, or do you want to get wiped out without preliminary.

 

[3DQSAR]

In my case apparently the unwashed seeds contained very high levels of morphine which caused me to OD.

I believe that the 'spring crop' of opium poppies in particular can contain higher concentrations of thebaine (toxic) and other unwanted alkaloids.

I think that is why opium rather than whole poppies became the form of morphine used in many cultures and for thousands of years. The latex being smoked in small pills means you smoke until you reach the sought effect.

Certainly laudanum and other forms were considered a more hazardous form because you can't titrate the dose in the same manner.

 

[Shambles]

Opium pisses over heroin as far as highs go.

That aside, I totally agree with those who point out that opioids and psyches are just plain different. Ami I more or less blissed out n XTC, LSD, AMT, Oxy or heroin? Or some combination thereof? The latter. Obviously. But I’ll take a psyche over an opi most days cos my life ain’t so bad these days. Ask me on a bad day then…

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I find that most opioids aren't even truly enjoyable until the 2nd-3rd day of using in a row.

I think this is why doctors have been instructed to have a "cut off" point when they give people opioids after surgery.


Those first few days taking an opioid are always just blah, sedation, constipation, tiredness. It really isn't until you start to become dependent on it & then wake up on day 3 or 4 & that first hit in the morning just gives you absolutely euphoria, from going from withdrawal to feeling super well all the sudden.

So I have to disagree that anyone who tries heroin "once" is gonna get addicted that fast. Most people throw up & can't understand the fun behind heroin when they first try it.

 

[SotPoker1012]

I quite like opioids. While I agree with you that a psychedelic can create euphoria far more intense, that's mostly a matter of set and setting. It can also make you anxious, depressed - some people even get irritable on them. Heroin has a predictable, reliable and convenient euphoria. If you know your tolerance, and you know how much you're taking, you can reliably predict what you're going to feel.

Also, some people abstain from psychedelics due to underlying mental health concerns. While psychedelics are far safer than opioids for the general population, they are much more capable of triggering psychosis in someone prone to that. At the same time, though, some people have found that it helps.

My point being, I don't think you can compare them because while they're both capable of creating a euphoric experience, it is done in an entirely different way.

If you don't like heroin, that's probably a good thing.

 

[saiconoclast]

I don't think anyone has gotten technically addicted from the first use, but if that first use felt good, it stands to reason that some will very enthusiastically want to try it again. That, repeated, becomes indistinguishable to addiction, I suppose. Even if not actually addicted.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I guess some people enjoy or dont care about the stigma of being a heroin user. Or maybe dont even think about it

We don't even think about it.

The addict to Heroin learns ways to Life that the person who's never used Heroin will never understand.
Also add in the Fact I can spot Cops so far away & before "normal people" can I may as well be a peregrine falcon & also I've seen Junkies that could do the 200 Meters in 18 seconds with 2 bottles of Vodka up each sleeve, this is another Junkie Superpower.

The Fact I can also generate a human sweat version of Niagara Falls under my arms in a few minutes when sick isn't such a great skill & sure won't help me get a Job.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I guess some people enjoy or dont care about the stigma of being a heroin user. Or maybe dont even think about it

I do always smirk when someone shouts "Smackhead" at me, though this is rare these days as it's now mostly "Crackhead" or "Dusthead" as in "Monkey Dust" AKA a-PVP.

I always pass on some Wisdom to the fools who do shout "Crackhead" & my wisdom is "To fund a Decent habit on Crack takes way more Cash than you earn in a Month" then add a laugh at their wisdom & comment.

 

[jasperkent]

Having been a user and addict of both drugs,
I can tell you that opium compares to heroin the way a fine wine compares to a shot of neat spirits.

That's to say heroin hits harder and immediate, and also lacks a certain subtlety. Whereas a good opium high is a gentler as well as more multi-layered experience.

Well put.

It's been several decades since I've had opium but it remains one of my fondest memories. We'd generally smoke it with hashish, which made the high even more multi-dimensional. Plus the taste & smell was delicious.

If I had regular and certain access to affordable opium, I'd absolutely be an opium addict and I would be perfectly content to stay that way. Not the worst way to spend my golden years.

 

[specialrelativity]

Heroin is okay with me.ok.

 

[Bleaney]

I do always smirk when someone shouts "Smackhead" at me, though this is rare these days as it's now mostly "Crackhead" or "Dusthead" as in "Monkey Dust" AKA a-PVP.

I always pass on some Wisdom to the fools who do shout "Crackhead" & my wisdom is "To fund a Decent habit on Crack takes way more Cash than you earn in a Month" then add a laugh at their wisdom & comment.

I used to get similar comments and stuff during the height of my poly drug usage, including opiates and RC stimulants.

One of the Pakistani deputy team leaders at a workplace I was at for a time during that period, called me a smackhead one time. I just replied quick as a flash "Yeah. I get it from your Dad!" (There had been lots of reports in the national and local news especially, at that time, about widespread heroin dealing among the pakistani community. Taxi Drivers etc.) That got a big laugh from the rest of the room.

I'm not usually as quick witted as that tbh, but for some reason that workplace brought out some of my wit. I came out with some other crackers at that place too, even if I say so myself. Must have been the combination of the poly drug combos I was on at the time. And the people. Some people just feed you lines, that somehow have a ready response available.

My Dad was amazing at verbal retorts. I have never met anyone else IRL who was as quick witted and able to turn round any disparaging comment made against himself, straight back against any verbal attackers. No one ever got the better of him verbally. He destroyed everyone that ever crossed him. I wish I had that skill!

My habitual response is to ignore insults. That can work provided you dont let it get to you, and just let it bounce off or wash over you. It's no good if you're left stewing inside though. Sometims it takes a bit of Stoic logic, like 'why should i value that person's opinion? What does he know about anything, least of all me?' etc etc. Also just completely ignoring people, cutting them off, ice cold dead, has recently successfully worked against one of my would be tormentors at my current place of work. Since he's finally noticed and commented "Wow, he doesnt give a fuck!" He's stopped giving me shit, and started being more friendly and respectful.

 

[Bleaney]

I find that most opioids aren't even truly enjoyable until the 2nd-3rd day of using in a row.

Those first few days taking an opioid are always just blah, sedation, constipation, tiredness. It really isn't until you start to become dependent on it & then wake up on day 3 or 4 & that first hit in the morning just gives you absolutely euphoria, from going from withdrawal to feeling super well all the sudden.

This makes so much sense. Despite trying not to, I did a 5 day run with Odt, as I found it impossible to resist, and that left me in w/ds, and I didnt want to get in any deeper than that. I found ODT immediately very enjoyable.

With heroin, I think I bought 1g amounts on 2 or 3 occasions, but I didnt use it for more than 2 days in a row.

IIRC.

The warnings on those OTC cocodamols containing 8mg codeine and 500mg of paractemol not to use for more than 3 days in a row are laughable though. Surely anyone who thinks that anyone is going to get addicted from using 8-16 mg of codeine every 4 hours for 4 days is very much mistaken.

 

[doubledog]

This is definitely not true, first experience is very often mediocre. My experience is that people are quite surprised how uninteresting and not super pleasant is this substance on the first try, but I think that it is caused by simple fact that most reports about greatness of this drug is from very specific group of people.

Imo opium is much better that H, and it is still not a experience of "this is the best thing ever" type.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

One of the Pakistani deputy team leaders at a workplace I was at for a time during that period, called me a smackhead one time. I just replied quick as a flash "Yeah. I get it from your Dad!"

I laughed so hard then, Credit where it's due that's the best & most sharp reply to being called "Smackhead" I've ever read.
I'm stealing that from you.
#Respect

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

This makes so much sense. Despite trying not to, I did a 5 day run with Odt, as I found it impossible to resist, and that left me in w/ds, and I didnt want to get in any deeper than that. I found ODT immediately very enjoyable.

With heroin, I think I bought 1g amounts on 2 or 3 occasions, but I didnt use it for more than 2 days in a row.

IIRC.

The warnings on those OTC cocodamols containing 8mg codeine and 500mg of paractemol not to use for more than 3 days in a row are laughable though. Surely anyone who thinks that anyone is going to get addicted from using 8-16 mg of codeine every 4 hours for 4 days is very much mistaken.

Is Odt O-desmethyltramadol?
I'v'e been wanting to try that. I think I'd like it since it's tramadol's full agonist metabolite.

I use to love tramadol. But I found even without a tolerance, I had to take at least 300-400mg in a day for a "high", one that would get me nodding & such.

I actually came across some tramadol after not having any for a long time. And I tried to take 300mg & holy fuck the SNRI effects were waaay too prominent.
Gave me a weird light headed feeling, dizziness, nausea, twitchy-ness, anxiety, etc...

Which is really odd because I was a tramadol addict for 11 years & I was able to handle 300-400mg easily, without any sort of SNRI effects at all.

Maybe my liver enzymes have changed since I was in my 20's? I dunno, but all through out my 20's and early 30's, tramadol was just like any other opioid to me (better even, because it was more stimulating & lasted longer than some shitty hydrocodone), but now it seems like mostly SNRI effects, although weak, are more prominent than the opioid effects.

So ODSMT is probably a ton more enjoyable.


But yeah as much as I love heroin/opioids, there are times when I'll get them & the first few days of using it are actually pretty boring. And I bet a lot of people also try them & don't understand the hype at first.

 

[Bleaney]

Is Odt O-desmethyltramadol?

Indeed it is!

According to wikipedia it's 40 times more potent as an opioid than tramadol, so it's a 'proper opioid' in my book, and since all the conversion has already been done and you dont have to rely on your body to do the converting of tramadol to odt - which it does in only very small amounts AFAIK.

Ive never been able to take tramadol due to the risk of serotonin syndrome, as ive been on ssris or snris. Although some people seem to love tramadol, several other people have told me that Ive not missed much.

I tried 3 different batches of ODT. And my God the first batch was pure euphoria. It was amazing.

For reasons uknown to me the second and 3rd batches didnt affect me in such a fantastic way. I guess it may have been down to differences in the manufacturing process or components used, not sure really. A kind of similar situation to all post-ban mephedrone NEVER once being anywhere as near as good as pre-ban ime, despite numerous people saying 'this batch is as good as pre-ban.' It just never was. And I gave up even trying after numerous failed attempts.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Indeed it is!

According to wikipedia it's 40 times more potent as an opioid than tramadol, so it's a 'proper opiod' in my book, and since all the conversion has already been done and you dont have to rely on your body to do the converting of tramadol to odt - which it does in only very small amounts AFAIK.

Ive never been able to take tramadol due to the risk of serotonin syndrome, as ive been on ssris or snris. Although some people seem to love tramadol, several other people have told me that Ive not missed much.

I tried 3 different batches of ODT. And my God the first batch was pure euphoria. It was amazing.

For reasons uknown to me the second and 3rd batches didnt affect me in such a fantastic way. I guess it may have been down to differences in the manufacturing process or components used, not sure really. A kind of similar situation to all post-ban mephedrone NEVER once being anywhere as near as good as pre-ban ime, despite numerous people saying 'this batch is as good as pre-ban.' It just never was. And I gave up even trying after numerous failed attempts.

Interesting!
I'm trying to get my hands on some Odt. I think I would like it.

Pretty disappointed with the tramadol I had over the past few days. It use to be one of my favorite opioids, but now I can see why people totally hate it.

Shit I'd just get some heroin if I could, but even that's impossible to find anymore. Or afford. I'm broke all the fricken time anyways.

I've been basically trying to force myself to love buprenorphine (even tho it sucks) cause it's the only thing I have. lol Buprenorphine makes me way more tired & heavy feeling than other opioids though.