Health experts furious disagreement over liquor’s link to violence

poledriver

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
11,543
DOES alcohol cause violence or do violent people cause violence?

It’s a surprisingly complex question which has led to a furious war of words between rival health experts.
And the answer could have severe ramifications for how, where and at what time Australians are permitted to have a drink.

Last week, 18-year-old Cole Miller died after he was allegedly felled in a one-punch attack in Brisbane’s night life district of Fortitude Valley.
In the wake of the tragedy, Queensland acting premier Jackie Trad said the teenager’s death highlighted that more needed to be done to limit access to alcohol.
“It really does speak to the fact this Government has decided to take very seriously stamping out this sort of senseless drunken violence,” reported the ABC.

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Cole Miller died from an assault in Brisbane’s party district of Fortitude Valley.Source:No Source

“We will be moving ahead with our alcohol-fuelled violence laws later on this year.”
If they pass parliament, Queensland’s new liquor laws will be similar to those that are already in force in New South Wales where all bottle shops have to close by 10pm and punters are locked out of licensed venues after 1.30am.

NSW’s restrictions came into force after another 18-year-old, Thomas Kelly, was killed in a random assault in the party zone of Kings Cross in 2012. His killer, Kieran Loveridge, had been roaming the area that evening and had already assaulted several other people. He had consumed 20 units of alcohol.

While violence has reduced in the area, the laws have also been blamed for devastating the night-time economy in Kings Cross and Darlinghurst with pubs, bars and even newsagents closing down since the lockouts came into force.
British anthropologist Dr Anne Fox last year released a paper, commissioned by Lion, which brews XXXX and Tooheys, which said alcohol was not a direct cause of violence.

Talking to ABC radio at the time, she said if there was a simple link between alcohol and violence, there would be uniform levels of violence among all drinkers.

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Anthropologist Dr Anne Fox has had her study looking at Australia and New Zealand’s drinking culture slammed by academics who favour a crackdown on the availability of alcohol.Source:News Corp Australia

Alcohol “cannot hijack someone’s better nature and make them violent,” she said.
“People who are already aggressive or have other underlying tendencies which predispose them to aggression, such as depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or hyper-aggressivity, poor impulse control — these people tend to drink heavily.

“This creates a sort of illusion of correlation that it’s the alcohol causing the problem. But if 100,000 people go out drinking on a Friday night and one person throws a punch, we call it alcohol-fuelled violence, but what about the other 99,999 people who were drinking at the time who managed to stay perfectly controlled?” Dr Fox said, pointing to countries such as Iceland where more alcohol is consumed but less violence occurs.

Her recommendations included young boys being taught not to react aggressively to every perceived slight, taunt or jest and media campaigns about acceptable drinking behaviour.
However, two academics have now hit back with a stinging critique of Dr Fox’s report.

In the journal Addiction, Nicki Jackson from the University of Auckland, said, “Dr Fox has overstated the effectiveness of social marketing and alcohol education, and underplayed the causal role of alcohol in violence,” and the paper failed to acknowledge the evidence concerning effective strategies for reducing violence including lockouts.

Professor Kypros Kypri from the University of Newcastle said, “Despite failing to meet even basic standards of research the report cannot be ignored, because the findings are being used by the alcohol industry to overturn licensing decisions and in submissions on public policy.”

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Kieran Loveridge, who was found guilty of the death of Thomas Kelly, had a violent past.Source:News Limited

Dr Fox has not taken the criticism lying down, questioning the basis for Prof Kypri and Ms Jackson’s comments and asserting that Lion had no undue influence over her findings. “For decades, many esteemed social scientists have been challenging the unfounded hypothesis that there is a direct causal link between alcohol and violence,” she said.

CONFLICT OF INTEREST

While she was clear about Lion’s involvement in her work, she lashed out at Prof Kypri for failing to declare he is a member of an anti-alcohol organisation.
Prof Kypri is listed as a director of the Australian Rechabite Foundation whose aim is to build “knowledge of the harmful effects of alcohol”.

He denied this was a conflict of interest. “It attaches me to the point of view that reducing alcohol-related harm is desirable and that using evidence to do that is acceptable. I don’t resile from that,” he told the New Zealand Herald.
“That’s relevant to someone who is a public health practitioner. Public health research is an applied discipline.”

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...e/news-story/d48fe42baedf7c505cf32569cf762030
 
No, alcohol doesn't cause violence itself - no drug does. But it does remove inhibitions and that can cause violence in already violent (or with the potential) individuals. Does that mean we should restrict alcohol more? Uhh, probably not. Better legalize cannabis and whatnot so people can take something else that has significantly lower probability of making them violent.

I agree with Dr Fox.
 
So someone that wrote a paper commissioned by a brewer calls someone who rebutted their paper and belongs to an anti alcohol organization a hypocrite. She's the hypocrite for calling the other researcher a hypocrite. They're both just "hired guns." I think they're probably both full of shit because they both clearly have an agenda.

I especially enjoyed the photo of her enjoying her benefactor's product.
 
Seeing this argument kind of makes me sad. It's no mystery that a big crowd of people can become more violent if they all get drunk. Saying alcohol has no connection to violent behavior is just as silly as saying it can transform a non-violent person into a violent one. Like any other drug or a variety of other activities, drinking warrants a modicum of regulation for the sake of public health. The measures proposed in Queensland are hardly draconian. Just buy your liquor before 10 PM.

Im no teetotaler, but it grinds my gears to see people giving alcohol a pass while so many much better drugs get blamed for every problem you can think of. It's the 21st century, and I don't think any scientist has an excuse for thinking of any drug as either a panacea or a bogeyman.
 
I live in a country where alcohol can only be sold at stores between 10 am and 10 pm. My personal problem with this system is that I feel the need to stock up on alcohol for the evening in case I feel like having more than planned. So, say I plan to drink 4 beers instead of the usual 6-8, but because I know that I won't be able to get any more later if I want more, I buy 6-8 "just in case". And it's a lot easier to drink more than originally intended if the alcohol has already been bought and is sitting at home, as opposed to having to go to the store. But that's just how it works for me, everyone's different.

E: and another bad consequence of this system for me is that oftentimes I run out of the "planned" booze by around 10 pm and I just want to have a couple more, at home, in peace. But because I can't go get more from the stores, I go to the bar and that not only results in me drinking way more and longer than I would have at home, but can also result in all kinds of bar encounters if you know what I mean.
 
Getting drunk doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility and I'm against prohibition, but I'm sorry, drinkers are the most abusive and dangerous crowd I've ever been around. All those repressed issues come out. There's more property damage and death from alcohol than all the other drugs combined.
 
Getting drunk doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility and I'm against prohibition, but I'm sorry, drinkers are the most abusive and dangerous crowd I've ever been around. All those repressed issues come out. There's more property damage and death from alcohol than all the other drugs combined.

Unless you're a female feminist, that is.

I think the right course of action would be to give people more alternatives in psychoactives not restrict it even more. Legalize cannabis, legalize other drugs. Fewer people will feel the need to get shitfaced and that will decrease the violence and societal damage associated with alcohol.
 
Alcohol “cannot hijack someone’s better nature and make them violent,” she said.
“People who are already aggressive or have other underlying tendencies which predispose them to aggression, such as depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or hyper-aggressivity, poor impulse control — these people tend to drink heavily.

Yeah, thanks, lady. Good one increasing stigma against people living with mental illness in an attempt to remove prejudice against alcohol drinkers.

People with most diagnosed and treated mental illnesses are actually statistically less likely to commit violent crimes, and far and away more likely to be victims of them.
 
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