Have you read the AA book?

[marquee]

My grandpa has the book, I leafed through it on vacation. He wasn't an alcoholic per se, but in his middle age he drank heavily at a time it was more socially acceptable. He was prescribed some hydrocodone after a surgery a couple months ago and loved it, went so far as to call my dad (a doc) and ask for more... which unfortunately did not happen.

 

[PureLife]

LSD success rate as a solution for alcoholism wasn't really that high. It was HIGHER than the success rate of AA though, surprisingly. With all the money we put into funding solutions for drug addictions, you'd think there'd be a more successful treatment out there. Oh well.....

 

[Mr. White]

I know MANY alcoholics whose lives were saved by AA. I can't say I know any whose life was saved by using LSD. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but I've yet to come across any.

With the vast numbers of people in AA compared to the few studies using LSD, of course you know many who were saved by AA and none who used LSD.

Lets say theres 1 million people in AA and 100,000 are "saved", thats 10%
and say, 1000 people who used LSD treatment and 500 of them are "saved", 50%

Just because you know more (in fact there ARE more) people who succeeded using AA, that doesn't mean its the best or even a good treatment. I'm not implying that its a bad treatment, i'm just making a point

 

[robbhimself4]

I have read a lot of the AA big book. Personally, I think if you are trying to fight addiction, then it is a very good tool to use. You really just need to be open minded and willing enough to take advice from other people that have been in your situation if not in a worse situation. That is just my 2 cents tho...

 

[marquee]

Playing the devil's advocate here, but some of those studies have been criticized for perceived methodological flaws.

 

[AfterGlow]

Somebody please post a link to the study with the clinical data that establishes LSD is an effective treatment for alcoholism. I've heard that early research back when it was legal explored that possibility. But I didn't know it was accepted by the medical community as a fact.

Sure, I've heard the anecdotal stories about having an epiphany while tripping and changing your life as a result. Hell... MDMA played a huge role in me making changes in my own life.

But I don't believe the statement that LSD has a higher success rate than AA as a solution for alcoholism. I'd need to see some good data to back that up.

Nevertheless, I give credit to whatever it takes for you to see the light and put a stop to a seriously harmful behavior pattern. The co-founder of AA himself took LSD in the hope it would help him. But he struggled with alcoholism right to his death bed.

 

[opiate3]

^ word. I'm calling BS on that whole lsd thing too afterglow. One of the meeting i used to go to had a poster of a stadium filled with about 50,000 recovering/recovered alcoholics at an AA function. Its very hard for me to believe that 50,000 people have even been treated with Lsd for alcoholism.

 

[Missykins]

Yeah, its a big book(s) of alchohal/drug bashing. It does have some qualitys if your wanting to be clean though. The outlook of AA/NA is you are either with us or againsts us, there is no middle ground. For instance marijuana has alot of positive medicenal resons to use it (and some negitive ones too), but those people dont want to hear anything thats benifical about any drug even if it may be true.

That's not necessarily true if you talk to NA members individually. You'd be surprised at the shit these people take "medicinally."

I see your point, though, especially given the preamble of an NA meeting--"the absence of all mood and mind-altering drugs including alcohol." Well, I take suboxone. Does that mean that I'm not clean? According to some NA people the answer is yes. I approached a woman to be my sponser and she told me that she didn't think that you could count time on suboxone as clean time, and yet there are members taking Percs for chronic pain.

I find the shared experience to be useful. Take what you like and leave the rest.

 

[therightcoast]

I can't get the "disease part past me. No matter how many people tell me it is, and try to explain it, i still say "no". Is it is a disease? If you say yes, please give me a moment of time and enlighten me. Please

A true addict is always an addict, just as an alcoholic is always an alcoholic. The drugs don't need to be there for the disease to be

"What is drug addiction?
Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing brain disease that is characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, despite harmful consequences. It is considered a brain disease because drugs change the brain - they change its structure and how it works. These brain changes can be long lasting, and can lead to the harmful behaviors seen in people who abuse drugs. "

- http://www.nida.nih.gov/scienceofaddiction/addiction.html


AA works if you commit to it. If you have an addiction you want to end and have dismissed AA due to some small things you don't agree with - what are you planning on doing, going to rehab and waiting for them to tell you to go to AA? It's a tool that helps coping with addiction and works rediculously well.

 

[Pillthrill]

Parts of it in court ordered rehab for a week and in substance abuse class as part of an essay

 

[johanneschimpo]

You guys think the "disease" part is stupid? Imagine how bad I want to get up and sock some faggot in the face when he talks about his "allergy to alcohol."
Grow the fuck up, or at least read a science book. You aren't allergic to anything, you're just a drunk asshole looking for an excuse.

Did I just dropkick your 3 month old baby? Oh sorry, I'm allergic to infants....

Yeah I have a big book. No I haven't read it. I got one when I went to my first meeting, about a year ago (court ordered). I ended up lighting that one on fire. I just got another one this week, when they asked if there was anyone without a book, I raised my hand and they gave me one. They passed it around "so all the guys could put their phone numbers in it." I encouraged the girls to do so as well, but they didnt. Maybe they are allergic to paper, or ink. So I have it, and I read one part (because it was about this doctor slamming himself up with barbiturates, and it was cool), but I have no intention of reading it at all.

Why, you ask? Well, you see, the thing is, I have this disease, I'm allergic to bullshit...

 

[T-Lo9999]

I knew people would come out to knock AA, and the funny thing is they are the ones who havent read the book, and dont know anyone who is in recovery. they havent seen that it works.

I'm not in AA, but I know countless people who are in recovery with long-term sobriety and they are living proof that the program works.

the bottom line is I dont know anyone who has completely abstained from drugs and alcohol for a long period of time without AA or NA. I truly believe it is the solution, the only solution.

and the success rate is low because most people who go to AA do not embrace the program. they go to meetings and thats it. while going to meetings alone and socializing with other people who are trying to recover can help you stay clean for a little while, you are not getting better by doing just that. you are not treating your condition through the program of recovery outlined in the big book. that is why people fail.

but the truth is, of the people who do the program the way it is laid out, the success rate is very, very high.

AA is very similar to organized religion in the sense that it is very misunderstood.

but it is there for true alcoholics and true addicts, who cannot quit on their own and who NEED HELP, who need a solution to their problem. it is the solution.

 

[Pillthrill]

Shit, I figure if AA can help keep one family together, one person alive from drinking themself to death or offiing themself, or even a drug user...the like...
Its worth it. Its not the whole higher powe bs I can't stand.
Fucking say God already so I can just get the fuck outta here...

 

[NickyBundles]

worddd JC, i got that very same disease.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^word.

the bottom line is I dont know anyone who has completely abstained from drugs and alcohol for a long period of time without AA or NA.

Because the only people you know/talk to are people you met at AA/NA meetings?
Maybe. I have a shitload of friends who one day decided "thats enough," and just stopped. No meetings. I have some friends went to meetings. End result is the same, except the non-AA people have 7 extra hours a week not wasted in smoky, coffee-stained carpeted rooms.

I truly believe it is the solution, the only solution.

This is ridiculous. You are saying that no one can quit using drugs or alcohol unless they follow the tenets of a 12-step program? How can you believe this?

(Keep in mind I go to court ordered AA meetings often - for the past 2 weeks I've gone almost every day... I'll be done after 15 more meetings, then guess what? Never going again. I was off dope before AA, it hasn't helped {I am very open minded - until they start speaking about God} and if anything, those meetings make me want to stick myself more than anything else)

 

[Shambles]

I knew people would come out to knock AA, and the funny thing is they are the ones who havent read the book, and dont know anyone who is in recovery. they havent seen that it works.

I'm not in AA, but I know countless people who are in recovery with long-term sobriety and they are living proof that the program works.

the bottom line is I dont know anyone who has completely abstained from drugs and alcohol for a long period of time without AA or NA. I truly believe it is the solution, the only solution.

I have read the book. I know many people (myself included) who are "in recovery" from various addictions (just coming up to around 5 years myself). None of them went to AA/NA. Is this "living proof" that AA/NA doesn't work - just cos I've never met anyone who went that route succesfully? Obviously not. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count - just cos these people exist outside of your personal experience doesn't mean they don't exist at all. Or maybe none of us are "true addicts" 8) ?

If a big book (AA/NA or otherwise) helps then enjoy and I hope it works for you. I, personally, find the whole "cannot help yourself so give it to a 'higher power' to deal with it for you" attitude a bit silly and unhelpful, but I'm probably just being harsh. Whatever gets your boat a-floating.

 

[MistaSmokalot]

it's another form of a bible, or another form of something to beleive in, a hope...

for some it works

same with the bible..

If anyone has read the bible and read the AA book it strikes similarities...

 

[opiate3]

Originally Posted by T-Lo9999
I truly believe it is the solution, the only solution.

to say something like this is just as narrow minded as someone who bashes aa without knowing a thing about it.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^And God exists because I can't prove that he doesn't.

(Note the capital 'G', it would be lowercase if I meant it another way, don't jump to conclusions here.)





re: "Admitting I'm powerless"
-->How pathetic.

Why? Just so I'll put a dollar in the basket?


Would someone who wasn't an alcoholic/drug addict ever do that?

 

[therightcoast]

You guys think the "disease" part is stupid? Imagine how bad I want to get up and sock some faggot in the face when he talks about his "allergy to alcohol."
Grow the fuck up, or at least read a science book. You aren't allergic to anything, you're just a drunk asshole looking for an excuse.

Did I just dropkick your 3 month old baby? Oh sorry, I'm allergic to infants....

Yeah I have a big book. No I haven't read it. I got one when I went to my first meeting, about a year ago (court ordered). I ended up lighting that one on fire. I just got another one this week, when they asked if there was anyone without a book, I raised my hand and they gave me one. They passed it around "so all the guys could put their phone numbers in it." I encouraged the girls to do so as well, but they didnt. Maybe they are allergic to paper, or ink. So I have it, and I read one part (because it was about this doctor slamming himself up with barbiturates, and it was cool), but I have no intention of reading it at all.

Why, you ask? Well, you see, the thing is, I have this disease, I'm allergic to bullshit...

Alcoholics Anonymous IS NOT a meeting. It is a program, meetings are part of that program. Because you have not experienced doesn't give authority over it.

i mean i really don't know what to say other then the allergy is just a way to put it into means of understanding to many people. Also, you didn't want to be there a year ago, and your there again so obviously things you tried didn't work out for you. Things can obviously get better, you just don't see that, and i geuss don't want sobriety. Good luck though, i hope your allergy towards bullshit ends with the whole badass persona and ignorance.

What people don't realize is that aa is a program to change lives, it doesn't only help stop drinking, the first step is the only one which even mentions alcoholism. The 12 steps will better anyones life regardless of circumstance.


Also, the whole higher power/god thing is for hope. Your best thinking got you to the point your at, so why do you think it'd help you get out? Believing something greater than you is looking out for you is really reassuring and makes things alot easier.