Has Political Correctness Gone Mad?

[CFC]

It's interesting how many people are - by default - translating the idea of excessive political correctness into a left-right issue. I realise there are some lazy tropes and cliches with which to caricature both sides of the debate, but the documentary in question was considerably less binary and more nuanced.

For example prohibiting an artist from exhibiting a series of photos that capture an aspect of a culture or religion in case it offends that culture or religion is not liberal in any way, and neither is prohibiting a magazine from depicting a religious figure that may offend some. But opposing this may have you branded a reactionary dinosaur and racist.

Germaine Greer and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie have both recently been pilloried as bigots and transphobes for daring to raise some issues that are worthy of a serious discussion and not just reactive social-media abuse for daring to transgress a PC divide. This seems to reflect the tendency for extreme PC behaviour to stifle debate and create self-defeating division rather than open discussion and consensus.

For me this is more about how people (of any political persuasion) have a depressingly predictable capacity to blindly follow whatever doctrine is in fashion and take it to an extreme, in the process constructing opponent tribes - 'others' - against whom they may define themselves. You're either with us, or against us - and people on the 'left' and 'right' are both guilty of this.

 

[tathra]

It's interesting how many people are - by default - translating the idea of excessive political correctness into a left-right issue. I realise there are some lazy tropes and cliches with which to caricature both sides of the debate, but the documentary in question was considerably less binary and more nuanced.

in the US at least, the only ones who ever say anything about "pc" are right wing nutters (while simultaneously being hypocritical language and morality police themselves). its a go-to irrational bitching point of theirs, but naturally none of them have ever been able to define what "political correctness" actually means. and since it has no definition, its kind of hard to have any kind of actual discussion about it.

 

[herbavore]

I am a progressive. I do not believe in or use hate speech. I believe in the concept and reality of microaggressions. I believe that most anything that someone calls racist, sexist or homophobic is actually racist, sexist or homophobic or at the very least, can understand on the basis of experience, why it might be legitimately mistaken as such. I believe that as civil societies we need to work to undo the inequities of race and gender that have persisted and morphed with us through time. AND, I also believe that political correctness has indeed gone mad.

 

[spacejunk]

journalistic integrity is far more valuable to any discerning political observer than ratings. please.

 

[spacejunk]

You think the two sides are fox vs cnn?

Really?
Because if your perspective is really that insular, perhaps it explains the basis of a lot of your "opinions"

 

[swilow]

It's interesting how many people are - by default - translating the idea of excessive political correctness into a left-right issue. I realise there are some lazy tropes and cliches with which to caricature both sides of the debate, but the documentary in question was considerably less binary and more nuanced.

For example prohibiting an artist from exhibiting a series of photos that capture an aspect of a culture or religion in case it offends that culture or religion is not liberal in any way, and neither is prohibiting a magazine from depicting a religious figure that may offend some. But opposing this may have you branded a reactionary dinosaur and racist.

Germaine Greer and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie have both recently been pilloried as bigots and transphobes for daring to raise some issues that are worthy of a serious discussion and not just reactive social-media abuse for daring to transgress a PC divide. This seems to reflect the tendency for extreme PC behaviour to stifle debate and create self-defeating division rather than open discussion and consensus.

For me this is more about how people (of any political persuasion) have a depressingly predictable capacity to blindly follow whatever doctrine is in fashion and take it to an extreme, in the process constructing opponent tribes - 'others' - against whom they may define themselves. You're either with us, or against us - and people on the 'left' and 'right' are both guilty of this.

I am a progressive. I do not believe in or use hate speech. I believe in the concept and reality of microaggressions. I believe that most anything that someone calls racist, sexist or homophobic is actually racist, sexist or homophobic or at the very least, can understand on the basis of experience, why it might be legitimately mistaken as such. I believe that as civil societies we need to work to undo the inequities of race and gender that have persisted and morphed with us through time. AND, I also believe that political correctness has indeed gone mad.

Great posts guys

 

[consumer]

What's wrong with fox? Their ratings are much higher than liberal media.

Its owned by one Rupert Murdoch. Enough said.

 

[consumer]

I was listening to an interesting conversation the other night with a group of my female friends discussing a person we know that has transitioned to female identity. They were offended by the persons facebook posts going on about being female, international womens day and some other quite nasty shit that had been posted. Their point is that getting a set of breasts, taking female hormones and wearing a dress does not make someone a woman. Never having periods, never going through menopause and other things unique to the female experience cannot be experienced unless you are a woman. Its quite a valid arguement and along the lines of what Germaine Greer was saying. Its not politically correct but i have to say i agree with them.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Well there's the problem; your friend was on facebook. People have said that they are something when they're not really, for the entirety of human existence. Why be on facebook seeing all the stupid shit people think about all day when you can be off doing something better?

 

[tathra]

What's the problem with Facebook as a medium for socialization? Seriously? (I mean i know fb spies on everyone and saves everything and sells it to ad companies but that's irrelevant to my question)

fb is a great way to keep in contact with a lot of people you don't really see anywhere else; most blers that i know from ages past i only still keep in contact through fb, and plenty of other people. The internet is the best thing to happen to introverts like me; socializing by text is still socializing.

 

[consumer]

Well there's the problem; your friend was on facebook. People have said that they are something when they're not really, for the entirety of human existence. Why be on facebook seeing all the stupid shit people think about all day when you can be off doing something better?

The point has nothing to do with Facebook which i dont personally use. Its the fact that anyone who says anything different to this persons views gets attacked as transphobic and anti women.....even when the people are women. Personally i have nothing against trans people but calling yourself a woman when you are not i dont agree with but political correctness says i am all types of nasty things for holding this view.

 

[tathra]

Personally i have nothing against trans people but calling yourself a woman when you are not i dont agree with but political correctness says i am all types of nasty things for holding this view.

Its partly a semantic issue. Gender and biological sex are far more complicated than simply whether one has a Y chromosome or not. you can be XY and physically be a woman; would you call her a woman or man? And i don't mean physically a woman through surgery, i mean born a woman. For all intents and purposes she's a woman, even if technically she should be a man, but that's just pedantic bullshit that doesn't help anyone. Theres also men that find out later on that they have ovaries - again, man or woman to you? Transsexuals are basically just an extension of this, they are the gender they identify as even if technically they don't have the chromosomes to be it. Being pedantic and calling a woman a man because you don't see her as a woman is just being an asshole.

As for the not having periods and menopause and all that, not getting the "full female experience", that's not really that big a deal - everyone is different, some are just more different than others. I don't think others are less human or less manly than me because they're not all exactly the same as me physically and haven't gone through all the same experiences as me, that's just how life goes.

Tl;dr - its a complicated issue that's mostly just a semantic problem

 

[consumer]

I dont how see my views make me an asshole. Its quite reasonable to say you are the sex you are born. Calling me an asshole is just political correctness gone mad. Quite apt really. My female friends who hold this view should not be abused for holding it as is the case and you just demonstrated.

Does that make you an asshole?

?

 

[tathra]

You didn't answer the questions. Born as female, with a vagina and everything, but with XY chromosomes, male or female? Born as a male, penis and everything, but XX with ovaries and all, male or female? Its not as clear cut an issue as you seem to think.

These aren't made up, hypothetical examples, these examples can and do happen.

 

[consumer]

I did answer the question. I stated i believe you are the sex you are born. Thats not semantics thats my view. Born a man then you are not a woman. Calling me an asshole is being politically correct and again you demonstrate my point.

 

[consumer]

Also there wasn't any questions in your post just statements so saying i did not answer your questions is disingenuous.

 

[tathra]

I did answer the question. I stated i believe you are the sex you are born.

So, if you have a vagina, you're a woman, period, and if you have a penis, you're a man, period?

 

[consumer]

You are taking the issue away from transexuals who just identify as a different sex to people with rare chromosome issues. I am not playing your game.

 

[tathra]

No, I'm asking you straight up what determines whether one is a man or woman, transsexuals are unrelated to my questions.

 

[consumer]

Well i was talking about transexuals and you have changed the subject to something else.
Yes in rare cases of chromosome irregularity it may not be black and white but that is not what i was talking about.

A man born a man without these issues you are hung up on is not a woman in my books just because they say they are. Happy?