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Has Political Correctness Gone Mad?

So for all intents and purposes, women are women

While that may be a helpful attitude in some situations where their shared experiences outweigh differences (say gender discrimination in the workplace), it becomes problematic and harmful where experiences are unique - say female reproductive functioning, medical needs and so on.

This is the problem with an excessive 'PC' attitude - it inadvertently attempts to obliterate difference and nuance and ignores context. A male to female transgender person is just that - male-female transgender. Their experiences are essentially unique to themselves in many situations, and need to be addressed and understood in that context. Same with the examples given of XX/XY gonadal dysgenesis.

Attempting to force others to describe them as solely 'female' (and so on) obliterates many of the characteristic experiences that both transgender and female people identify with and narrows the debate. It actually replicates in reverse the kind of binary bigotry that political correctness evolved to tackle, which is a disservice to both and helps neither.

Sensitivity to difference is hard work and requires an open-mind, which is why people resort to simplistic labeling and (consequently) bigotry. But the solution is not to falsify reality and pretend (for example) there are no issues integrating certain immigrant groups into established societies with their own sets of cultural norms, or that women and XY transgender women are the same group of people.

Ultimately this approach back-fires, causing many people to abandon any attempt at sensitivity and (as we are increasingly seeing) vote for obnoxious people who 'say it as it is' to the detriment of all.
 
While that may be a helpful attitude in some situations where their shared experiences outweigh differences (say gender discrimination in the workplace), it becomes problematic and harmful where experiences are unique - say female reproductive functioning, medical needs and so on.

The examples for where its problematic are essentially edge cases and only a relevant issue between the person and their partner and their doctor, respectively, and none of anyone else's business, completely irrelevant to how they fit in to and should be treated by society, making them red herrings.
 
I agree that when it comes to a man living as a woman (pre op)...we should just call them a woman since we can't see their gentials and as long as they keep them under women's clothing they should be called women. Appearances are what 99 percent of the population will go on. I guess I was speaking in the context of there being full disclosure of said person s anatomy
 
Tl;dr - its a complicated issue that's mostly just a semantic problem

In a nutshell. Though I say that as someone who has no empathy with transgender through ignorance. I am willing to admit I don't understand the issue. But I've witnessed enough people to believe there is a real problem with "being born in the wrong body" and I think it's the least I can do to acknowledge this through politeness and recognising their wishes (and hurt) than shitting on them with an opinion when I don't have the knowledge to hold an opinion.

There's a difference between being PC and being respectful.

There's an argument from several people (Sandi Toksvig, Stewart Lee, for two) who say, actually, no, there isn't a difference. To many people this is exactly what PC should mean. Having said that I acknowledge how the term itself has been bastardised by both (all) sides of the political spectrum and it really fucks me off when people use it as a short cut to get out of proper debate. If we're not careful "SJW" will be the next "PC" and pretty soon you won't be able to discuss Leftism at all.

Oh look at the Leftist discussion thread. We're there already.
 
I have been called many things by many people on the internet and amongst friends in my life. I am not a politically correct person at all and if I am called anything derogatory its water off a ducks back these days. Sometimes I am being what I am being called and it doesnt bother me much.

Sometimes people complain about being called a dickhead or whatever despite actually acting like a dickhead and think they have the right to spew out any kind of bullshit that they think is alright without any kind of equally as honest response.

But it doesnt work that way in the world and if youre being a dickhead then you can expect someone to call you out for it.


This observation has nothing to do with consumer and more about a couple of idiots making off topic rambling racist bullshit posts and getting told off for it then just being bitter about it and reporting being called names that are essentially banal and not offensive if this was an in person conversation.

Consumer has a point. I cant relate to a man who identifies as being a woman yet has not had the lifelong influence of hormones, gone through frmale puberty, had to have periods, will never go through menopause, not grown up having to face female issues from their infancy to old age. But if they identify as women then so be it. Not my issue. Its not a massive big deal anyway.

PC has gone mad because these days we communicate somewhat anonymously with people worldwide and things said now could not have been before the internet. Offensive posts are taken too seriously and could just be skipped or ignored but arent.
 
It frustrates me that identity politics generates so much more discussion than issues that are objectively more important, such as climate change. It distracts the populace with issues that really do not effect many people.

Of course, for a trans-person this issue may be life or death, and for that reason I will adapt my language but I'm convinced these issues are red herrings. Think about 18c and the bullshit surrounding that. Its a non issue, comparatively, but sucks a lot of wind from the sails of public opinion.
 
That's because pro-racist agendas are a distraction (from rich, powerful, overwhelmingly white men) from the continued destruction of the planet and important issues by those who dictate discourse.

"What housing crisis?"
"What environmental disaster?"

"...oh, look over here, my right to be a bigot is being challenged all of a sudden by these 20 year old laws"


The moves by Australian govt that you speak of are a sad joke, looking to prop up a doomed prime minister amongst the far right of his party.

Very fucking depressing on Harmony Day. The 50s are over, it is time these old men moved on
 
Your thoughts on changing "insult, offend, something" to "harass" spacejunk? I'd be for it but I do not trust the motives of those advocating it.

I heard Andrew Bolt, the piece of shit cunt, say he wants a change so he can continue his work 'fighting racism'. The fuck?

sidenote- I was pleased that Julia Gillard has been appointed chairperson of Beyond Blue. A step up from Jeff Fucking Kennett. Though I heard him advocating drug decriminalisation. Again wtf?
 
It frustrates me that identity politics generates so much more discussion than issues that are objectively more important, such as climate change. It distracts the populace with issues that really do not effect many people.

Of course, for a trans-person this issue may be life or death, and for that reason I will adapt my language but I'm convinced these issues are red herrings. Think about 18c and the bullshit surrounding that. Its a non issue, comparatively, but sucks a lot of wind from the sails of public opinion.

You are completely correct the problem is the right wing twists these issues for their own use. I'm not sure what the solution is. I find the democratic party to be a pile of shit myself but when conservatives use these arguments they are ignoring so many things they prove themselves the bigoted racists they are.

The solution of course is for all the right wing shit heads to fuck off and die so only the left survive. Like in Europe there will only be centrist left and far left. The right have elected their retarded orange leader their base craves. But the Machiavellian politicians know it is a dead end and are freaking out. My guess is Trump is going to fuck up America so badly there will be a huge power vacuum left. It's up to the socialists, anarchists, commies, progressives, leftists whatevers to be ready to fill it. If the dumb shit rednecks want a fight then lets band together and finish them off, they love to talk about how many guns they have but that is irrelevant now a days. You can create weapons out of anything especially now that we have 3d printers.
 
Your thoughts on changing "insult, offend, something" to "harass" spacejunk? I'd be for it but I do not trust the motives of those advocating it.

I heard Andrew Bolt, the piece of shit cunt, say he wants a change so he can continue his work 'fighting racism'. The fuck?
Well, Andrew Bolt was charged under this piece of legislation, so his opinion has no credibility.
I think the whole thing is a bad joke. It's going to be DOA in the senate anyway, the whole thing is a masquerade by turnbull to try and appease the far right of his party. His days are numbered and the whole thing is an exercise in distraction.
swilow said:
sidenote- I was pleased that Julia Gillard has been appointed chairperson of Beyond Blue. A step up from Jeff Fucking Kennett. Though I heard him advocating drug decriminalisation. Again wtf?
i only wonder what took them so long. Kennett has done a lot of damage to that organisation's reputation IMO
 
How much depression did he cause I wonder. Though I do admire anyone who tries to lessen the plight of those suffering mental illness.

Hmm, I wonder if we should have an Aussie politics thread? I'd be interested...
 
I am just wondering what would the actual reasoning for getting offended is when it comes to someone who cannot tolerate transgender persons?

I mean most of the times you go through your daily activities you don't actually need to consider about the gender of the people you interact with.

What difference does it make if your collegue or customer is a female or male (or transgender)? What about going to the grocery store with clerks of different genders?

I have to give supervised UA weekly and all of the lab workers are female and I don't actually haven't even given a thought about having to pee while a female worker is looking at me before someone brought that issue up in a discussion.

Why do we actually need to know or care about the gender of the person we are interacting?

I guess some of this stems from a cultural viewpoint since even our language is gender neutral without labels such as he/she.

Or are there actually people who consider each and every person representing the other gender (or whatever they prefer) as a possible mating partner and therefore need to know if they have a different set of playthings under their clothes?

I don't consider my own gender to be much of a defining factor on who I am and can't remember if it ever has been one.
 
I am just wondering what would the actual reasoning for getting offended is when it comes to someone who cannot tolerate transgender persons?

I mean most of the times you go through your daily activities you don't actually need to consider about the gender of the people you interact with.

What difference does it make if your collegue or customer is a female or male (or transgender)? What about going to the grocery store with clerks of different genders?

I have to give supervised UA weekly and all of the lab workers are female and I don't actually haven't even given a thought about having to pee while a female worker is looking at me before someone brought that issue up in a discussion.

Why do we actually need to know or care about the gender of the person we are interacting?

I guess some of this stems from a cultural viewpoint since even our language is gender neutral without labels such as he/she.

Or are there actually people who consider each and every person representing the other gender (or whatever they prefer) as a possible mating partner and therefore need to know if they have a different set of playthings under their clothes?

I don't consider my own gender to be much of a defining factor on who I am and can't remember if it ever has been one.


I think thats the same point Louis ck is trying to make here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-JZSyhWSc
 
Was it PC-ness that closed the Martin McGuiness thread, or just Sosa being a fuckwit?

R.I.P. Martin.
 
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