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Hallucinogenic Opiates?

Pethidine has noticable effects as a DARI too though. Not to mention the whole anticholinergic aspect thing... Not many mu agonists have appreciable sigma agonism do they? They're generally dextro-oriented, and mu agonists levo.
 
Sigma agonists are unlikely to cause hallucinations actually.

I think I was getting muddled because I had been reading the Pentazocine article immediately prior to writing that post.
 
I my experience Demerol ( Meperidine ) is the only opioid that I always seemed to hallucinate on once I reached higher doses. ; in fact in looking at the Pharmacokinetics : Pethidine is quickly hydrolysed in the liver to pethidinic acid and is also demethylated to norpethidine, which has half the analgesic activity of pethidine but a longer elimination half-life (8-12 hours[13]); accumulating with regular administration, or in renal failure. Norpethidine is toxic and has convulsant and hallucinogenic effects.
Those days SWIM had access to the 2000mg & 1500mg Multi-Dose vials (20 x 100mg or 30 x 50mg ) and the sights seemed to kick in around 600 - -700mg ( IV or IM ). It's not surprising as I just double my CPS and under the adverse effects : transient hallucinations and disorientation, visual disturbances.
 
Isn't it the Kappa-opioid receptors that are mediated in true hallucination? Any Mu-opioid "hallucination" is more likely just a sleep/nod dreamstate? Anti-histamines like benadryl that are often used to potentiate opiates or even just the nod, are actually considered deliriants in high doses (hallucination causing compounds in which one cannot tell they are hallucinating: they believe their hallucination to be reality), Amounts of over 100mg for diphenhydramine are above the recommended dose, but with large amount of heroin I had half sleep stupors where I thought dirt on the floor were bugs and insects after adding 75mg oral diphenhydramine to my H and no other substance in my system.
 
I'm not sure kappa receptors have much to do with hallucination, even if extreme agonism leads to hallucination indirectly. Which hallucinogens are kappa ligands? Even serotonin or NMDA are more likely candidates just based on the number of hallucinogens I can think of off the top of my head that act on those receptors and aren't kappa opioids at all.
 
Coolio said:
I'm not sure kappa receptors have much to do with hallucination, even if extreme agonism leads to hallucination indirectly. Which hallucinogens are kappa ligands? Even serotonin or NMDA are more likely candidates just based on the number of hallucinogens I can think of off the top of my head that act on those receptors and aren't kappa opioids at all.
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I mean true 'opioid' hallucination, not the majority of hallucinogens. Like salvia.
 
But there are different kinds of opioid hallucination. Morphine and heroin give me closed eye visuals that are surreal and vivid with odd low color palettes. It's very dream-like.
 
Coolio said:
But there are different kinds of opioid hallucination. Morphine and heroin give me closed eye visuals that are surreal and vivid with odd low color palettes. It's very dream-like.
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Any effect from morphine/heroin would be/is mediated by mu-receptors, as I was trying to differentiate from the effect of k-receptors in my first post in this thread.
 
Nagelfar said:
Any effect from morphine/heroin would be/is mediated by mu-receptors, as I was trying to differentiate from the effect of k-receptors in my first post in this thread.
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Morphine (which is also one of heroins metabolites) isn't a pure mu-agonist. It also effects delta and kappa opioceptors (though to a lesser degree). Diamorphine has some effects on the sigma receptor too.
 
On high doses of high quality heroin I would see the most amazing cartoon characters on the walls. It was a specific hallucination that happenned every time I did a high dose.

The most amazing hallucination i've ever had on heroin was reading black and white comics on the toilet, and watching them get colored in . Yes you heard me right. My mind colored the comics in. I have NO idea how that would happen , but it was fucking amazing.

Not worth trying to repeat though. Dope is scary!

-lenses
 
Suboxone, especially when taken sublingually rather than snorted is pretty potently hallucinogenic for swim. Even much more so when combined with good weed. It feels for swim very anticholinergic and dreamy, possibly antihistaminic and is most definitely dissociative due to NMDA antagonism. It's the closest drug in feel swim has ever tried to DXM and reproduces much of its dissociative qualities, but is more visual and far less mental. The nod off, especially with weed is very powerful and euphoric, though can be much too much, during which swim has very vivid and continuous CEVs which are mostly picture and memory-like...dreamlike, just as with DXM, which only gives shapes and pictures, no random psychedelia like most psychedelics.
 
jaguraguguru said:
Suboxone, especially when taken sublingually rather than snorted is pretty potently hallucinogenic for swim. Even much more so when combined with good weed. It feels for swim very anticholinergic and dreamy, possibly antihistaminic and is most definitely dissociative due to NMDA antagonism. It's the closest drug in feel swim has ever tried to DXM and reproduces much of its dissociative qualities, but is more visual and far less mental. The nod off, especially with weed is very powerful and euphoric, though can be much too much, during which swim has very vivid and continuous CEVs which are mostly picture and memory-like...dreamlike, just as with DXM, which only gives shapes and pictures, no random psychedelia like most psychedelics.
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But.. Buprenorphine isn't an NMDA antagonist, or anticholinergic, or antihistiminic.

It sounds like you're describing typical mu-agonist 'hypnotic-dreamlike' hallucinations, rather than anything falling in the above 3 mentioned categories. Plus the 3 categories are impossible due to lack of those qualities.

You'd probably experience the same effect only amplified with a stronger mu agonist like Morphine, without any Cannabis or other drugs.
 
I didn't mean to imply that buprenorphine is anticholinergic or antihistaminic, I was just saying that its effects remind SWIM of anticholinergics and antihistamines (because much of the effects of first generation antihistamines, such as diphenhydramine/doxylamine succinate/chlorpheniramine are anticholinergic in nature) in relation to the quality of its visuals, which are pictures or memories rather than psychedelics such as patterns or changes in the objects in the visual field. I don't doubt that it has neither anticholinergic or antihistaminic effects, it's just a description of effects for those who have experienced the visual/hallucinogenic effects of antihistamines like diphenhydramine.
I'm not aware of any data suggesting any relation of buprenorphine to NMDA/glutamate systems, either positively or negatively, but the general soft, mellow feel of buprenorphine reminds SWIM very, VERY, (sometimes too much) of the DXM buzz, especially the next morning feeling, which is lethargic, mellow and yet very nice, almost antidepressant-like. Furthermore, DXM renders picture-like visuals for SWIM and usually only eyes-closed, as with buprenorphine. This effect leads me to believe that buprenorphine has some NMDA antagonism, whether it has been demonstrated or not. I admit that I'm not especially well-read on the subject, but seeing as DXM is a stereoisomer of an opioid and has NMDA effects, I think it's also within reason, chemically, to suggest an NMDA antagonization.
But I don't doubt that I could be wrong, as this is only inductive reasoning in addition to personal pharmacological guesswork. Has anyone seen data to the contrary? I'd love to know more.
 
DXM is a stereoisomer of an opioid and has NMDA effects, I think it's also within reason, chemically, to suggest an NMDA antagonization.
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Not within reason. Had you done a bit of background reading, you'd know that the levo-phenanthrenes lack NMDA antagonism, that it's located in the dextro isomers solely (along with sigma agonism). This gets more complicated when you get to the benzomorphans (pentazocine, for instance), but I believe even these have limited or no such affinity.

Actually, it might be the case with all opioids, I'm not sure. It's certainly true of the diphenylheptanone's, but I'm not sure about the various pethidine / ketobemidone sorts of things.
 
Buprenorphine is a large substrate for a receptor, especially among non-peptide opioids and opiates. Very few are as big as buprenorphine, though of course several are. I think the large size in addition to correct sterics and maximized binding (for this stereochemistry) allows for it to bind very mildly, because the normal opioid moeities are still there, just one stereocenter changed. It is obviously not a very powerful NMDA antagonist, but SWIM feels a shadow of ketamine and dxm. Just a suggestion, no need to be offended.
 
synchrojet said:
High doses of morphine give me very vivid CEVs, and even mild OEVs. I am schizophrenic and have synaesthesia; I don't know if that plays a role.
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my ex girlfriend, has the same thing, schizophrenia.. all drugs effect her differently... opiates make her trip out and hallucinate
 
jaguraguguru said:
Buprenorphine is a large substrate for a receptor, especially among non-peptide opioids and opiates. Very few are as big as buprenorphine, though of course several are. I think the large size in addition to correct sterics and maximized binding (for this stereochemistry) allows for it to bind very mildly, because the normal opioid moeities are still there, just one stereocenter changed. It is obviously not a very powerful NMDA antagonist, but SWIM feels a shadow of ketamine and dxm. Just a suggestion, no need to be offended.
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It is? Not hardly any larger than the other phenanthrenes. Haven't checked dimensions, but I suspect from one end to the other, it's not significantly different than fentanyl or methadone.

These all fit the same receptor pocket, so they're all going to be roughly the same size.

It's not an NMDA antagonist at all. If any can be found, it'll be in the mM range, which concentrations will never be reached. It doesn't matter if it has some incredibly weak affinity because unless the right concentrations are acheived, it won't have any such effects. No one is offended, you just obviously haven't done one wink of research on the subject or you'd never make such nonsensical claims. It's like the jackasses comparing everything to weed. OH man, DXM is just like pot man, but stronger! Idiots.
 
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