" Hair Metal" vs Grunge

Also, the early 90s, when grunge was taking over and hair metal was declining, was when the Pantera explosion occurred!!!

That's really what I was thinking about especially during my teenage years, not whether or not Nirvana was more popular than Winger.

90 saw Cowboys From Hell come out, 92 Vulgar Display of Power and 94 Far Beyond Driven.

While everyone else was fighting over hair metal and grunge I was listening to this 3 times a day lol:

 
Check out these documentaries. I agree with Lita Ford..there is NO real kick ass music scene anymore !! WTF ??
It's all kiddie POP. At that time the "M" in MTV actually meant something, I loved MTV back then. Now it's just a politically-driven machine. A way to poison teenager's minds against Conservatism. "Hey, we're MTV!! Be cool and join us as a liberal, or be a POS, and have no friends!"


There's LOTS of kick ass music being made these days.

Seriously, I don't think many people watch MTV anymore or care about it.

We are in a new era where people find what they want on the internet and the days of MTV and radio are over.

I have honestly NEVER been negatively effected by something I like NOT being popular.

I am constantly discovering bands that are new and bands that are decades old, some from the late 50s and early 60s even, that I like, of multiple styles.

Music for me is a private thing: I find what I like and listen to it, usually on headphones or car speakers, usually by myself.

It really doesn't matter to me much what is or isn't appreciated by others or whether or not their is a great "scene" going on, if I can find it and listen to it that's all that matters to me.

Being so effected by what is or isn't popular doesn't make sense with access to all the music in the world literally at your finger tips.
 
Also, the early 90s, when grunge was taking over and hair metal was declining, was when the Pantera explosion occurred!!!

That's really what I was thinking about especially during my teenage years, not whether or not Nirvana was more popular than Winger.

90 saw Cowboys From Hell come out, 92 Vulgar Display of Power and 94 Far Beyond Driven.

While everyone else was fighting over hair metal and grunge I was listening to this 3 times a day lol:



Mmmhmm, gotta love some Pantera from time to time.

"ARE YOU TALKIN' TO ME?! ARE YOU TALKIN' TO ME?! WALK ON HOME BOY!"

I never saw Pantera, but one of my favorite concerts ever was Metallica Summer Sanitarium Tour. It had Mudvayne, Deftones, Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, then Metallica came out as the headliner. Every one was headbangin' and I got to see hot chicks showing their boobs. Haha

RIP Chester
 
Mmmhmm, gotta love some Pantera from time to time.

"ARE YOU TALKIN' TO ME?! ARE YOU TALKIN' TO ME?! WALK ON HOME BOY!"

I never saw Pantera, but one of my favorite concerts ever was Metallica Summer Sanitarium Tour. It had Mudvayne, Deftones, Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, then Metallica came out as the headliner. Every one was headbangin' and I got to see hot chicks showing their boobs. Haha

RIP Chester

I got to see Pantera twice, once at Ozzfest 98 I believe was the year, then sometime around 2002-2003.

They were awesome both times.
 
I got to see Pantera twice, once at Ozzfest 98 I believe was the year, then sometime around 2002-2003.

They were awesome both times.

Sweet! I've only been to Ozzfest in '02, but Pantera wasn't there. It was still a sick lineup though with Rob Zombie, System Of a Down and others. Drowning Pool performed and literally a week later, the singer was found dead on his tour bus. Crazy.
 
Also, the early 90s, when grunge was taking over and hair metal was declining, was when the Pantera explosion occurred!!!

That's really what I was thinking about especially during my teenage years, not whether or not Nirvana was more popular than Winger.

90 saw Cowboys From Hell come out, 92 Vulgar Display of Power and 94 Far Beyond Driven.

While everyone else was fighting over hair metal and grunge I was listening to this 3 times a day lol:


I was 16 year old in 1992 grunge broke big and can remember listening to it on the radio and seeing the videos on mtv and thinking "why do so many of these people only want to talk about being depressed and hating life?", then I remember the day kurt cobain committed suicide and the massive overreaction it got as if it was somehow this unexpected event despite the fact he'd tried to off himself two or three times in the previous year or so (all of which had been widely reported on) yet my peers all expected me to care as if it mattered to me in the slightest regardless of the fact I hated his music and didn't care for the grunge fad at alll. All those "alternative / Grunge Bands" also copied each other & a lot of my friends were even selling out to them. Im like WOW you guys were putting down Poison & Slaughter & THEN talk highly of Nirvana & Pearl Jam!? WTF? That's how I felt about the 90's. Just a bunch of bands cloning each other and a majority having boring, annoying whiny vocalists. Glam metal bands still had plenty of fans, but the industry embraced the whole alternative/grunge scene at that time, and milked that dry too. What annoys me is how people don't take 80s Heavy Metal seriously because of how the bands looked. If you go back and look, there was some KILLER hard rock/metal that came out in the early to mid 90's that largely went unnoticed. Skid Row's "Slave to The Grind" was amazing! The Coverdale/Page album, I still play to this day! Brother Kane put out some amazing stuff! Badlands was great! Poison put out a criminally underrated album in "Native Tongue." Warrant was doing great stuff. Winger was great! I could go on and on. The 90's" bands didn't last that long. After 1995 "grunge" died faster than hair metal. Think about it. During grunge Aerosmith, Def Leppard,The Scorpions, Bon Jovi just name a few had massive hits and sold a ton of records.
 
Also, the early 90s, when grunge was taking over and hair metal was declining, was when the Pantera explosion occurred!!!

That's really what I was thinking about especially during my teenage years, not whether or not Nirvana was more popular than Winger.

90 saw Cowboys From Hell come out, 92 Vulgar Display of Power and 94 Far Beyond Driven.

While everyone else was fighting over hair metal and grunge I was listening to this 3 times a day lol:


Back then the genres weren't nearly as defined as they are now. It was all METAL.
 
I was 16 year old in 1992 grunge broke big and can remember listening to it on the radio and seeing the videos on mtv and thinking "why do so many of these people only want to talk about being depressed and hating life?", then I remember the day kurt cobain committed suicide and the massive overreaction it got as if it was somehow this unexpected event despite the fact he'd tried to off himself two or three times in the previous year or so (all of which had been widely reported on) yet my peers all expected me to care as if it mattered to me in the slightest regardless of the fact I hated his music and didn't care for the grunge fad at alll. All those "alternative / Grunge Bands" also copied each other & a lot of my friends were even selling out to them. Im like WOW you guys were putting down Poison & Slaughter & THEN talk highly of Nirvana & Pearl Jam!? WTF? That's how I felt about the 90's. Just a bunch of bands cloning each other and a majority having boring, annoying whiny vocalists. Glam metal bands still had plenty of fans, but the industry embraced the whole alternative/grunge scene at that time, and milked that dry too. What annoys me is how people don't take 80s Heavy Metal seriously because of how the bands looked. If you go back and look, there was some KILLER hard rock/metal that came out in the early to mid 90's that largely went unnoticed. Skid Row's "Slave to The Grind" was amazing! The Coverdale/Page album, I still play to this day! Brother Kane put out some amazing stuff! Badlands was great! Poison put out a criminally underrated album in "Native Tongue." Warrant was doing great stuff. Winger was great! I could go on and on. The 90's" bands didn't last that long. After 1995 "grunge" died faster than hair metal. Think about it. During grunge Aerosmith, Def Leppard,The Scorpions, Bon Jovi just name a few had massive hits and sold a ton of records.

You are talking about nothing more than your personal opinion.

You are aren't much older than me, and I was 12 in 1992 and saw it all too.

While there's a lot of music I like better than grunge (like a lot of metal OTHER than hair metal) I also liked the grunge scene quite a bit, especially Soundgarden, and you ask "why do they talk about being depressed and hating life?"

Funny question considering how much great music and art has come out of depression and negative emotions. Obviously grunge bands talked about that kind of thing because that was the reality they experienced. I know a lot about the early lives of both Kurt Cobain and Chris Cornell and they came out of some very rough experiences so that's why they wrote that kind of music, and honestly MORE POWER TO THEM!!

I'd ask the opposite question: "WHY DO SO MANY HAIR METAL BANDS DRESS UP AND TALK ABOUT GIRLS NON-STOP?!!"

FOR ME, personally, I don't really like most happy music and I like dark music that I can use as an outlet or escape from my negative emotions, so bands that dress up and sing most of their songs about girls and partying do NOTHING for me. What can I get out of that?

But if I hear music that is depressing or angry I feel I can relate because I have some of those same emotions myself and they help me when I feel like that.

I personally feel like hair metal has very little substance to it and dislike it strongly, though I will admit I do like Skid Row's Slave to the Grind but that's one of the only hair metal albums I like and I strongly prefer grunge, though I strongly before SERIOUS and EXTREME metal to MOST grunge (though I LOVE Soundgarden).

People had a reaction to Kurt Cobain's death because they identified with him, and it's not fair on your part to call it an "overreaction."

People identify with artists who they like for different reasons and if their death upsets them then who you are to tell them it shouldn't???

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

So hair metal was popular (I don't understand why to be honest....) then grunge became popular and took a lot of the attention away from hair metal during an MTV generation that died TWENTY YEARS AGO (I mean we are talking history now...barely ANYONE watches MTV anymore...) and then grunge died off, and....so what??

As far as bands "copying eachother"...yeah it happened a lot, but happened JUST AS MUCH with hair metal bands copying eachother, and I would say the big 4 of grunge all had their own styles between Nirvana, Soungarden, Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam.

Not to mention, that while Nirvana was much more simplistic, the musicians in Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were INCREDIBLY TALENTED!!

Listen to Chris Cornell and Layne Stayley's voices!!

They weren't just whiny, they could REALLY sing!!

Listen to the guitar player from Soundgarden, Kim Thayil, the guy was SICK!

People like what they like and identify with what they identify with.

But I for one MUCH more understand the appeal of grunge than hair metal.

At least grunge music talks about REAL emotions, hardship, depression, loss, etc, whereas hair metal is mostly superficial and about partying and girls.

I mean most of those hair metal bands did what they did about 80% JUST TO GET THE GIRLS!!!

Half of the scene was about guys dressing up like girls and playing that style of music so they could do coke and bang their fans!!

At least grunge had SOUL to it IMO.

If you wonder why bands write about depression and sadness then you should research the history of one of the most historically important musical genres of all time: THE BLUES.

ALL rock bands, including hair metal, grunge and other metal have blues to thank for what they play, and a LARGE quantity of blues music was sad, hence it being called "the blues."

Negative emotions often create great art.

But each to their own.
 
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Back then the genres weren't nearly as defined as they are now. It was all METAL.


No offense, but I know more about the history of metal than you do...been studying it for over 2 decades, and the genres were DEFINITELY defined enough that people viewed hair metal bands like Warrant and Winger and Ratt as ENTIRELY different from bands like Celtic Frost, Death, Kreator, Venom, Voivod, etc.

It was NOT just "all metal".

There were people who were part of the extreme metal scenes that DESPISED hair metal.

Had I been a bit older in the 80s (I was born in 1980) I can guarantee you I'd have been one of those people only listening to heavier more extreme metal and not listening to hair metal.
 
You are talking about nothing more than your personal opinion.

You are aren't much older than me, and I was 12 in 1992 and saw it all too.

While there's a lot of music I like better than grunge (like a lot of metal OTHER than hair metal) I also liked the grunge scene quite a bit, especially Soundgarden, and you ask "why do they talk about being depressed and hating life?"

Funny question considering how much great music and art has come out of depression and negative emotions. Obviously grunge bands talked about that kind of thing because that was the reality they experienced. I know a lot about the early lives of both Kurt Cobain and Chris Cornell and they came out of some very rough experiences so that's why they wrote that kind of music, and honestly MORE POWER TO THEM!!

I'd ask the opposite question: "WHY DO SO MANY HAIR METAL BANDS DRESS UP AND TALK ABOUT GIRLS NON-STOP?!!"

FOR ME, personally, I don't really like most happy music and I like dark music that I can use as an outlet or escape from my negative emotions, so bands that dress up and sing most of their songs about girls and partying do NOTHING for me. What can I get out of that?

But if I hear music that is depressing or angry I feel I can relate because I have some of those same emotions myself and they help me when I feel like that.

I personally feel like hair metal has very little substance to it and dislike it strongly, though I will admit I do like Skid Row's Slave to the Grind but that's one of the only hair metal albums I like and I strongly prefer grunge, though I strongly before SERIOUS and EXTREME metal to MOST grunge (though I LOVE Soundgarden).

People had a reaction to Kurt Cobain's death because they identified with him, and it's not fair on your part to call it an "overreaction."

People identify with artists who they like for different reasons and if their death upsets them then who you are to tell them it shouldn't???

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

So hair metal was popular (I don't understand why to be honest....) then grunge became popular and took a lot of the attention away from hair metal during an MTV generation that died TWENTY YEARS AGO (I mean we are talking history now...barely ANYONE watches MTV anymore...) and then grunge died off, and....so what??

As far as bands "copying eachother"...yeah it happened a lot, but happened JUST AS MUCH with hair metal bands copying eachother, and I would say the big 4 of grunge all had their own styles between Nirvana, Soungarden, Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam.

Not to mention, that while Nirvana was much more simplistic, the musicians in Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were INCREDIBLY TALENTED!!

Listen to Chris Cornell and Layne Stayley's voices!!

They weren't just whiny, they could REALLY sing!!

Listen to the guitar player from Soundgarden, Kim Thayil, the guy was SICK!

People like what they like and identify with what they identify with.

But I for one MUCH more understand the appeal of grunge than hair metal.

At least grunge music talks about REAL emotions, hardship, depression, loss, etc, whereas hair metal is mostly superficial and about partying and girls.

I mean most of those hair metal bands did what they did about 80% JUST TO GET THE GIRLS!!!

Half of the scene was about guys dressing up like girls and playing that style of music so they could do coke and bang their fans!!

At least grunge had SOUL to it IMO.

If you wonder why bands write about depression and sadness then you should research the history of one of the most historically important musical genres of all time: THE BLUES.

ALL rock bands, including hair metal, grunge and other metal have blues to thank for what they play, and a LARGE quantity of blues music was sad, hence it being called "the blues."

Negative emotions often create great art.

But each to their own.
Rock was never better then at the 80s/early 90s when Heavy Metal bands were ruling the world. You think Nirvana was anti mainstream but how in much of an error are you. In reality back in 1992 there was very little difference between a band like Skid Row and a band like Alice in Chains (esp. given AIC's roots). And Pearl Jam's guitarists were avowed Aerosmith fanatics. If we dispense with labels, and we just talk about the bands, it is amazing what commonality could be found instead of the constant belittling of supposedly passe' genres. The first line of the guitar solo in "Alive" at 3:39 is Ace Frehley's first line in the "She" solo on Kiss Alive at 3:00. I am 4 years older than you, so if you don't know the dreadful and pejorative term "hair metal" was never, ever, not once used in the eighties/early nineties. It was all Heavy Metal. When grunge came out, it became fashionable to be average musicians, sing songs about depression and cringe at anyone who had big hair and was actually good at playing an instrument. In that wake of Grunge there were a lot of bands that didn't deserve to be thrown by the wayside.



I think Nirvana is overrated in the sense that people act like they are the greatest band to have made grunge music when in my eyes Alice in Chains, Sound Garden, Stone Temple Pilots (early albums), Mother Love Bone are much better bands in terms of musical talent. They were also somewhat responsible for taking the guitar solo out of music that had been so prominent in the 70s and 80s and I hate them for that. For me their whole status is massively inflated by this (perceived by many) rebellious rock ' n roll suicide romanticism of Cobain shooting himself dead at the age of 27 after years as a heroin junkie, so it's like that whole James Dean thing (who was a lousy actor who made a few mostly pretty terrible movies that gained huge appeal after his death) and John Belushi (for me a moderately talented comedian) and Sid Vicious (who never had a single musical bone in his body) - you wonder if guys like this had lived they'd all by now be living in disgraceful middle-age, and starring on celebrity ballroom dancing reality shows? As a fan of "hair metal" , I like discussing its rise and fall. I miss the 80s/early 90s good times and good memories. I grew up on heavy metal. love hair metal. There was some good rock music in the 80s-early 90s. Rock music was butchered in 90s by media and people who were jealous of rock music's popularity. Late 80s/early 90s for me was the best years ever
 
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You are talking about nothing more than your personal opinion.

You are aren't much older than me, and I was 12 in 1992 and saw it all too.

While there's a lot of music I like better than grunge (like a lot of metal OTHER than hair metal) I also liked the grunge scene quite a bit, especially Soundgarden, and you ask "why do they talk about being depressed and hating life?"

Funny question considering how much great music and art has come out of depression and negative emotions. Obviously grunge bands talked about that kind of thing because that was the reality they experienced. I know a lot about the early lives of both Kurt Cobain and Chris Cornell and they came out of some very rough experiences so that's why they wrote that kind of music, and honestly MORE POWER TO THEM!!

I'd ask the opposite question: "WHY DO SO MANY HAIR METAL BANDS DRESS UP AND TALK ABOUT GIRLS NON-STOP?!!"

FOR ME, personally, I don't really like most happy music and I like dark music that I can use as an outlet or escape from my negative emotions, so bands that dress up and sing most of their songs about girls and partying do NOTHING for me. What can I get out of that?

But if I hear music that is depressing or angry I feel I can relate because I have some of those same emotions myself and they help me when I feel like that.

I personally feel like hair metal has very little substance to it and dislike it strongly, though I will admit I do like Skid Row's Slave to the Grind but that's one of the only hair metal albums I like and I strongly prefer grunge, though I strongly before SERIOUS and EXTREME metal to MOST grunge (though I LOVE Soundgarden).

People had a reaction to Kurt Cobain's death because they identified with him, and it's not fair on your part to call it an "overreaction."

People identify with artists who they like for different reasons and if their death upsets them then who you are to tell them it shouldn't???

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

So hair metal was popular (I don't understand why to be honest....) then grunge became popular and took a lot of the attention away from hair metal during an MTV generation that died TWENTY YEARS AGO (I mean we are talking history now...barely ANYONE watches MTV anymore...) and then grunge died off, and....so what??

As far as bands "copying eachother"...yeah it happened a lot, but happened JUST AS MUCH with hair metal bands copying eachother, and I would say the big 4 of grunge all had their own styles between Nirvana, Soungarden, Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam.

Not to mention, that while Nirvana was much more simplistic, the musicians in Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were INCREDIBLY TALENTED!!

Listen to Chris Cornell and Layne Stayley's voices!!

They weren't just whiny, they could REALLY sing!!

Listen to the guitar player from Soundgarden, Kim Thayil, the guy was SICK!

People like what they like and identify with what they identify with.

But I for one MUCH more understand the appeal of grunge than hair metal.

At least grunge music talks about REAL emotions, hardship, depression, loss, etc, whereas hair metal is mostly superficial and about partying and girls.

I mean most of those hair metal bands did what they did about 80% JUST TO GET THE GIRLS!!!

Half of the scene was about guys dressing up like girls and playing that style of music so they could do coke and bang their fans!!

At least grunge had SOUL to it IMO.

If you wonder why bands write about depression and sadness then you should research the history of one of the most historically important musical genres of all time: THE BLUES.

ALL rock bands, including hair metal, grunge and other metal have blues to thank for what they play, and a LARGE quantity of blues music was sad, hence it being called "the blues."

Negative emotions often create great art.

But each to their own.
Slave to the Grind is a great Metal album. Not "hair metal". Slave to the Grind was pure Metal. Self Titled and Slave To The Grind are fantastic. And if someone doesn't know, the dreadful and pejorative term "hair metal" was never, ever, not once used in the eighties/early nineties. It was all Heavy Metal. Slave to the Grind is a true classic. I liked Subhuman Race.
I've tried the stuff without Sebastian but it just doesn't do it for me. Sebastian Bach is The Most Handsome Voice Singer In The World!!! Sebastian Bach is the total package! Vocals? Check. Never cut his hair short? Check. Still is Rock n Roll? Check! Epitome of a Rock Star!
Saw them on the Subhuman Race tour and they were great live. MTV pushed the videos for Slave To The Grind album big time. Monkey Business got promoted like heck. They did a great job getting in on to that angry topic stuff that grunge was getting into. They're one of the few hard rock/commercial metal bands who said "the next album's gonna be heavier" and actually meant it. Subhuman Race was the last album with Sebastian Bach as lead singer and it was a departure from the style and sound of their first two albums. All albums post-Subhuman Race have a different lead singer. The debut is an excellent heavy metal album. Skid Row is the only "hair" metal band where their music got significantly heavier with each album, not more commercial.
 
What's super annoying is when Chris Cornell died and Chester Bennington, it was like people were finally paying attention to their lyrics and pain. They weren't really listening the entire time. I could point out tons of Soundgarden and Linkin Park songs that clearly show their sad state of mind and how they struggled to stay alive. That's why I relate.

It's true when The Band Perry sings "Funny when you're dead how people start listening."
 
You are talking about nothing more than your personal opinion.

You are aren't much older than me, and I was 12 in 1992 and saw it all too.

While there's a lot of music I like better than grunge (like a lot of metal OTHER than hair metal) I also liked the grunge scene quite a bit, especially Soundgarden, and you ask "why do they talk about being depressed and hating life?"

Funny question considering how much great music and art has come out of depression and negative emotions. Obviously grunge bands talked about that kind of thing because that was the reality they experienced. I know a lot about the early lives of both Kurt Cobain and Chris Cornell and they came out of some very rough experiences so that's why they wrote that kind of music, and honestly MORE POWER TO THEM!!

I'd ask the opposite question: "WHY DO SO MANY HAIR METAL BANDS DRESS UP AND TALK ABOUT GIRLS NON-STOP?!!"

FOR ME, personally, I don't really like most happy music and I like dark music that I can use as an outlet or escape from my negative emotions, so bands that dress up and sing most of their songs about girls and partying do NOTHING for me. What can I get out of that?

But if I hear music that is depressing or angry I feel I can relate because I have some of those same emotions myself and they help me when I feel like that.

I personally feel like hair metal has very little substance to it and dislike it strongly, though I will admit I do like Skid Row's Slave to the Grind but that's one of the only hair metal albums I like and I strongly prefer grunge, though I strongly before SERIOUS and EXTREME metal to MOST grunge (though I LOVE Soundgarden).

People had a reaction to Kurt Cobain's death because they identified with him, and it's not fair on your part to call it an "overreaction."

People identify with artists who they like for different reasons and if their death upsets them then who you are to tell them it shouldn't???

I just don't understand the point of this thread.

So hair metal was popular (I don't understand why to be honest....) then grunge became popular and took a lot of the attention away from hair metal during an MTV generation that died TWENTY YEARS AGO (I mean we are talking history now...barely ANYONE watches MTV anymore...) and then grunge died off, and....so what??

As far as bands "copying eachother"...yeah it happened a lot, but happened JUST AS MUCH with hair metal bands copying eachother, and I would say the big 4 of grunge all had their own styles between Nirvana, Soungarden, Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam.

Not to mention, that while Nirvana was much more simplistic, the musicians in Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were INCREDIBLY TALENTED!!

Listen to Chris Cornell and Layne Stayley's voices!!

They weren't just whiny, they could REALLY sing!!

Listen to the guitar player from Soundgarden, Kim Thayil, the guy was SICK!

People like what they like and identify with what they identify with.

But I for one MUCH more understand the appeal of grunge than hair metal.

At least grunge music talks about REAL emotions, hardship, depression, loss, etc, whereas hair metal is mostly superficial and about partying and girls.

I mean most of those hair metal bands did what they did about 80% JUST TO GET THE GIRLS!!!

Half of the scene was about guys dressing up like girls and playing that style of music so they could do coke and bang their fans!!

At least grunge had SOUL to it IMO.

If you wonder why bands write about depression and sadness then you should research the history of one of the most historically important musical genres of all time: THE BLUES.

ALL rock bands, including hair metal, grunge and other metal have blues to thank for what they play, and a LARGE quantity of blues music was sad, hence it being called "the blues."

Negative emotions often create great art.

But each to their own.
Check out this one. What Sebastian Bach did here was a tribute and he did it in his own style...which absolutely rocks! The way he rocks that last chorus is electric and everyone there was lucky to hear it. I love Bach. One of best rock vocalists you'll ever hear. You can see that the entire band was having a blast while playing with Seb. Sebastian was so damn beautiful! Sebastian was hot! He still got it going on.
 
Rock was never better then at the 80s/early 90s when Heavy Metal bands were ruling the world. You think Nirvana was anti mainstream but how in much of an error are you. In reality back in 1992 there was very little difference between a band like Skid Row and a band like Alice in Chains (esp. given AIC's roots). And Pearl Jam's guitarists were avowed Aerosmith fanatics. If we dispense with labels, and we just talk about the bands, it is amazing what commonality could be found instead of the constant belittling of supposedly passe' genres. The first line of the guitar solo in "Alive" at 3:39 is Ace Frehley's first line in the "She" solo on Kiss Alive at 3:00. I am 4 years older than you, so if you don't know the dreadful and pejorative term "hair metal" was never, ever, not once used in the eighties/early nineties. It was all Heavy Metal. When grunge came out, it became fashionable to be average musicians, sing songs about depression and cringe at anyone who had big hair and was actually good at playing an instrument. In that wake of Grunge there were a lot of bands that didn't deserve to be thrown by the wayside.



I think Nirvana is overrated in the sense that people act like they are the greatest band to have made grunge music when in my eyes Alice in Chains, Sound Garden, Stone Temple Pilots (early albums), Mother Love Bone are much better bands in terms of musical talent. They were also somewhat responsible for taking the guitar solo out of music that had been so prominent in the 70s and 80s and I hate them for that. For me their whole status is massively inflated by this (perceived by many) rebellious rock ' n roll suicide romanticism of Cobain shooting himself dead at the age of 27 after years as a heroin junkie, so it's like that whole James Dean thing (who was a lousy actor who made a few mostly pretty terrible movies that gained huge appeal after his death) and John Belushi (for me a moderately talented comedian) and Sid Vicious (who never had a single musical bone in his body) - you wonder if guys like this had lived they'd all by now be living in disgraceful middle-age, and starring on celebrity ballroom dancing reality shows? As a fan of "hair metal" , I like discussing its rise and fall. I miss the 80s/early 90s good times and good memories. I grew up on heavy metal. love hair metal. There was some good rock music in the 80s-early 90s. Rock music was butchered in 90s by media and people who were jealous of rock music's popularity. Late 80s/early 90s for me was the best years ever

Well as a metal head I must also agree the 80s RULED and were really the decade that metal in general, regarldess of subgenres, came of age.

Metal was born in the late 60s and the 70s were basically metal's childhood, but the 80s were metal's angsty teenage years and everything was forming then. Likewise, I think the 90s saw more mature metal, and now in the 2000s metal is REALLY diverse.

I TOTALLY agree with you by the way that Nirvana in my PERSONAL opinion was FAR from the best grunge band. My favorite is Soundgarden and I was VERY upset when Cornell died and I think they were the most talented. My 2nd favorite was AIC who I also like and think is more talented than Nirvana.

I never really got into Pearl Jam so I can't speak on them, and I felt Stone Temple Pilots just imitated everyone else.

But I DID and still DO like Nirvana for what they did and Cobain as a figure in his own right.

I didn't say Nirvana was "anti-mainstream"....in fact, they BECAME mainstream but supposedly the problem was that Kurt never WANTED them to be.

What I said is ME PERSONALLY, I feel that his music and grunge music "has more substance to it in terms of lyric themes and overall atmosphere than hair metal."

I'll admit, I don't know a REAL lot about hair metal, but I've heard songs by bands like Ratt, Winger, Warrant, Poision, etc and always really strongly disliked them all, and what I always saw as their "thing" was that they were trying to get lots of girls, get with their female fans, party and drink and do coke and wear make up and live the very materialistic lifestyle that the 80s was really all about.

I mean you know the 80s were materialistic right? The whole era of "the material girl" (by the way I LOVE Cindi Lauper LOL)

It was a decade of excess, people had more money, and that excess showed in hair metal.

Grunge was about the "not so pretty" side of life: depression, drugs, loss, etc, and I myself like a lot of VERY dark music so I relate.

You don't have to and that's cool, but I just don't quite get why you like to bash grunge so much.

I mean I get it: you had a style you loved and along came another style you didn't and kind of kicked it off the airwaves and MTV, but that's ancient history now and I think if possible they should have kept BOTH hair metal and grunge on MTV so people could enjoy both but whatever.

And while you MIGHT be right that "hair metal" wasn't the term back then..GLAM rock/glam metal most CERTAINLY existed and I have never liked glam rock much at all, minus Skid Row and I guess Kiss has some ok stuff but I was never the biggest fan of them either.

Also, people liked Nirvana BEFORE he killed himself, and even if his suicide did make them so much more popular (cause of course it did...) isn't it a BIT unfair to blame Cobain for offing himself??

I mean, the guy was OBVIOUSLY miserable or he would not have blown his head off with a shotgun and I feel sorry for the guy just like I do for Cornell, Stayley and all people, famous or not, who kill themselves.

I don't know if you've watched the latest Kurt Cobain documentary "Montage of Heck" that came out a few years back, but you get to hear and see a lot of what he went through and he had a lot of suffering he channeled into his music.

Suicide itself should not make someone famous, but that's not ALL that made Nirvana famous for one, and for two, beyond being the singer of a famous band Cobain was just a person who was miserable and offed himself and deserves a little sympathy IMO.

Finally, I will still maintain that glam rock WAS a distinct style of rock/metal scene as NOT being the same thing as thrash, death metal, early black metal, power metal, traditional heavy metal, doom metal or other styles of metal in the 1980s.

Have you ever checked out the website Encyclopedia Metallum: The Metal Archives??

You should.

They are by and large considered to be THE BIGGEST AUTHORITY ON WHAT IS AND IS NOT HEAVY METAL ON THE INTERNET.

Sometimes I disagree with them, but really, they are as much of an authority as it gets on metal, and most of the glam bands (or hair metal) that you and others like are not even listed on that site or considered by them to be metal.

Ratt, Poison, White Snake, Winger, Warrant, KISS, Cinderella, etc are not even on there because the members of The Metal Archives decided in a series of meetings that they are not true metal bands but rock bands, and I tend to agree with them.

Skid Row IS on there though.

I mean I'm sure you might scoff at that, but this is a BIG well established site full of people who dedicate their lives to metal and they have regular weekly meetings to discus what bands are and are not metal based on NUMEROUS criteria and if they aren't then they don't include them on the site.

Of course, it would be hard to PROVE these bands aren't metal, or what metal even IS because that can be up for debate......but as someone who has listened to more metal and rock bands than I can count I would have to say I don't see most of that kind of music as being metal because it just plain isn't heavy enough.

However, some of those bands may have been considered metal back in the 80s....and standards DO change over time.

Anyways, good talk.
 
What's super annoying is when Chris Cornell died and Chester Bennington, it was like people were finally paying attention to their lyrics and pain. They weren't really listening the entire time. I could point out tons of Soundgarden and Linkin Park songs that clearly show their sad state of mind and how they struggled to stay alive. That's why I relate.

It's true when The Band Perry sings "Funny when you're dead how people start listening."

I know.

I was never into Linkin Park so Bennington's death didn't shock me, but I have never been as upset by the death of any musician or celebrity as I was about Chris Cornell.

Soundgarden is not just my favorite grunge band but one of my all time favorites.

I always heard the pain in his music and lyrics but never quite knew how bad it was, and since this is a drug site it's worth mentioning that one of the things I believe led Cornell to become miserable is that he was already addicted to Heroin AT AGE TWELVE!!

He had a lot of skeletons in his closet and I hope a documentary or book comes out about him and his personal life and Soundgarden cause I think he hid a lot of it.

Right after he died I re-listened to the song "Limo Wreck" off of Superunknown and it sent chills down my spine and while I always liked it, it took on an ENTIRELY different level of meaning and seriousness after his death when I listened again and REALLY read the lyrics.

He seems like he always had a REALLY deep despair.

I mean listen to this and really pay attention to the lyrics.....dark to say the least and someone who perhaps struggled with depression and thoughts of suicide for years:
 
Slave to the Grind is a great Metal album. Not "hair metal". Slave to the Grind was pure Metal. Self Titled and Slave To The Grind are fantastic. And if someone doesn't know, the dreadful and pejorative term "hair metal" was never, ever, not once used in the eighties/early nineties. It was all Heavy Metal. Slave to the Grind is a true classic. I liked Subhuman Race.
I've tried the stuff without Sebastian but it just doesn't do it for me. Sebastian Bach is The Most Handsome Voice Singer In The World!!! Sebastian Bach is the total package! Vocals? Check. Never cut his hair short? Check. Still is Rock n Roll? Check! Epitome of a Rock Star!
Saw them on the Subhuman Race tour and they were great live. MTV pushed the videos for Slave To The Grind album big time. Monkey Business got promoted like heck. They did a great job getting in on to that angry topic stuff that grunge was getting into. They're one of the few hard rock/commercial metal bands who said "the next album's gonna be heavier" and actually meant it. Subhuman Race was the last album with Sebastian Bach as lead singer and it was a departure from the style and sound of their first two albums. All albums post-Subhuman Race have a different lead singer. The debut is an excellent heavy metal album. Skid Row is the only "hair" metal band where their music got significantly heavier with each album, not more commercial.


Yes, absolutely, I agree that Skid Row IS a metal band and I always liked Slave to the Grind, and Encyclopedia Metallum: The Metal Archives also considers them a metal band and has them on there.

Very catchy album.
 
Check out this one. What Sebastian Bach did here was a tribute and he did it in his own style...which absolutely rocks! The way he rocks that last chorus is electric and everyone there was lucky to hear it. I love Bach. One of best rock vocalists you'll ever hear. You can see that the entire band was having a blast while playing with Seb. Sebastian was so damn beautiful! Sebastian was hot! He still got it going on.



NICE!!

I really liked that and thought Bach did a good job of capturing Layne's style.

So you must not TOTALLY hate ALL grunge if you can even like a cover of an AIC classic right??!!

AIC was a QUALITY band.

Maybe you more hate Nirvana and the rest of the grunge scene and how it kind of ruined the scene you loved.

But there's enough music to go around: you can like what you like and other people can like what they like.

And I really like it when bands of different styles can pay tribute to other artists and show appreciation, especially if an artist has passed like Layne did.
 
I know.

I was never into Linkin Park so Bennington's death didn't shock me, but I have never been as upset by the death of any musician or celebrity as I was about Chris Cornell.

Soundgarden is not just my favorite grunge band but one of my all time favorites.

I always heard the pain in his music and lyrics but never quite knew how bad it was, and since this is a drug site it's worth mentioning that one of the things I believe led Cornell to become miserable is that he was already addicted to Heroin AT AGE TWELVE!!

He had a lot of skeletons in his closet and I hope a documentary or book comes out about him and his personal life and Soundgarden cause I think he hid a lot of it.

Right after he died I re-listened to the song "Limo Wreck" off of Superunknown and it sent chills down my spine and while I always liked it, it took on an ENTIRELY different level of meaning and seriousness after his death when I listened again and REALLY read the lyrics.

He seems like he always had a REALLY deep despair.

I mean listen to this and really pay attention to the lyrics.....dark to say the least and someone who perhaps struggled with depression and thoughts of suicide for years:


That's a dark song, beautiful lyrics though. I was listening to "Blow Up the Outside World" and "Pretty Noose" last night. As soon as he died, "Pretty Noose" had a lot more meaning to it in an unfortunate, eerie way.

I didn't know he was addicted to heroin at only 12. That's super young to be dealing with such a hardcore drug. He always struggled with addiction, but he got clean. They blamed the suicide on Ativan. He always dealt with depression so maybe taking too much Ativan lowered his inhibitions and made it easier for him to take his own life. He committed suicide in my city after a gig. So it had even more of an impact on me. It triggered my own thoughts like that. I had to talk myself off of a ledge. Chester Bennington and Chris Cornell were best friends. So when Chris died, it made Chester give up and kill himself soon after. Suicide is contagious. You have to be very careful not to let another person's death take you out as well.

I'm just glad I got to see Soundgarden and Nine Inch Nails together a few years ago on my birthday.
 
Source? That's not at all what I've read.
So what did you read?

You can do a quick search and find plenty of information about them being very close friends and Chester killed himself on what would've been Chris Cornell's 53rd birthday. To me, that makes an obvious statement that Chris's suicide influenced Chester's decision.

There are some who believe both of them were killed because they were about to expose a pedophile ring, but no comment...

 
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