Rock was never better then at the 80s/early 90s when Heavy Metal bands were ruling the world. You think Nirvana was anti mainstream but how in much of an error are you. In reality back in 1992 there was very little difference between a band like Skid Row and a band like Alice in Chains (esp. given AIC's roots). And Pearl Jam's guitarists were avowed Aerosmith fanatics. If we dispense with labels, and we just talk about the bands, it is amazing what commonality could be found instead of the constant belittling of supposedly passe' genres. The first line of the guitar solo in "Alive" at 3:39 is Ace Frehley's first line in the "She" solo on Kiss Alive at 3:00. I am 4 years older than you, so if you don't know the dreadful and pejorative term "hair metal" was never, ever, not once used in the eighties/early nineties. It was all Heavy Metal. When grunge came out, it became fashionable to be average musicians, sing songs about depression and cringe at anyone who had big hair and was actually good at playing an instrument. In that wake of Grunge there were a lot of bands that didn't deserve to be thrown by the wayside.
I think Nirvana is overrated in the sense that people act like they are the greatest band to have made grunge music when in my eyes Alice in Chains, Sound Garden, Stone Temple Pilots (early albums), Mother Love Bone are much better bands in terms of musical talent. They were also somewhat responsible for taking the guitar solo out of music that had been so prominent in the 70s and 80s and I hate them for that. For me their whole status is massively inflated by this (perceived by many) rebellious rock ' n roll suicide romanticism of Cobain shooting himself dead at the age of 27 after years as a heroin junkie, so it's like that whole James Dean thing (who was a lousy actor who made a few mostly pretty terrible movies that gained huge appeal after his death) and John Belushi (for me a moderately talented comedian) and Sid Vicious (who never had a single musical bone in his body) - you wonder if guys like this had lived they'd all by now be living in disgraceful middle-age, and starring on celebrity ballroom dancing reality shows? As a fan of "hair metal" , I like discussing its rise and fall. I miss the 80s/early 90s good times and good memories. I grew up on heavy metal. love hair metal. There was some good rock music in the 80s-early 90s. Rock music was butchered in 90s by media and people who were jealous of rock music's popularity. Late 80s/early 90s for me was the best years ever
Well as a metal head I must also agree the 80s RULED and were really the decade that metal in general, regarldess of subgenres, came of age.
Metal was born in the late 60s and the 70s were basically metal's childhood, but the 80s were metal's angsty teenage years and everything was forming then. Likewise, I think the 90s saw more mature metal, and now in the 2000s metal is REALLY diverse.
I TOTALLY agree with you by the way that Nirvana in my PERSONAL opinion was FAR from the best grunge band. My favorite is Soundgarden and I was VERY upset when Cornell died and I think they were the most talented. My 2nd favorite was AIC who I also like and think is more talented than Nirvana.
I never really got into Pearl Jam so I can't speak on them, and I felt Stone Temple Pilots just imitated everyone else.
But I DID and still DO like Nirvana for what they did and Cobain as a figure in his own right.
I didn't say Nirvana was "anti-mainstream"....in fact, they BECAME mainstream but supposedly the problem was that Kurt never WANTED them to be.
What I said is ME PERSONALLY, I feel that his music and grunge music "has more substance to it in terms of lyric themes and overall atmosphere than hair metal."
I'll admit, I don't know a REAL lot about hair metal, but I've heard songs by bands like Ratt, Winger, Warrant, Poision, etc and always really strongly disliked them all, and what I always saw as their "thing" was that they were trying to get lots of girls, get with their female fans, party and drink and do coke and wear make up and live the very materialistic lifestyle that the 80s was really all about.
I mean you know the 80s were materialistic right? The whole era of "the material girl" (by the way I LOVE Cindi Lauper LOL)
It was a decade of excess, people had more money, and that excess showed in hair metal.
Grunge was about the "not so pretty" side of life: depression, drugs, loss, etc, and I myself like a lot of VERY dark music so I relate.
You don't have to and that's cool, but I just don't quite get why you like to bash grunge so much.
I mean I get it: you had a style you loved and along came another style you didn't and kind of kicked it off the airwaves and MTV, but that's ancient history now and I think if possible they should have kept BOTH hair metal and grunge on MTV so people could enjoy both but whatever.
And while you MIGHT be right that "hair metal" wasn't the term back then..GLAM rock/glam metal most CERTAINLY existed and I have never liked glam rock much at all, minus Skid Row and I guess Kiss has some ok stuff but I was never the biggest fan of them either.
Also, people liked Nirvana BEFORE he killed himself, and even if his suicide did make them so much more popular (cause of course it did...) isn't it a BIT unfair to blame Cobain for offing himself??
I mean, the guy was OBVIOUSLY miserable or he would not have blown his head off with a shotgun and I feel sorry for the guy just like I do for Cornell, Stayley and all people, famous or not, who kill themselves.
I don't know if you've watched the latest Kurt Cobain documentary "Montage of Heck" that came out a few years back, but you get to hear and see a lot of what he went through and he had a lot of suffering he channeled into his music.
Suicide itself should not make someone famous, but that's not ALL that made Nirvana famous for one, and for two, beyond being the singer of a famous band Cobain was just a person who was miserable and offed himself and deserves a little sympathy IMO.
Finally, I will still maintain that glam rock WAS a distinct style of rock/metal scene as NOT being the same thing as thrash, death metal, early black metal, power metal, traditional heavy metal, doom metal or other styles of metal in the 1980s.
Have you ever checked out the website Encyclopedia Metallum: The Metal Archives??
You should.
They are by and large considered to be THE BIGGEST AUTHORITY ON WHAT IS AND IS NOT HEAVY METAL ON THE INTERNET.
Sometimes I disagree with them, but really, they are as much of an authority as it gets on metal, and most of the glam bands (or hair metal) that you and others like are not even listed on that site or considered by them to be metal.
Ratt, Poison, White Snake, Winger, Warrant, KISS, Cinderella, etc are not even on there because the members of The Metal Archives decided in a series of meetings that they are not true metal bands but rock bands, and I tend to agree with them.
Skid Row IS on there though.
I mean I'm sure you might scoff at that, but this is a BIG well established site full of people who dedicate their lives to metal and they have regular weekly meetings to discus what bands are and are not metal based on NUMEROUS criteria and if they aren't then they don't include them on the site.
Of course, it would be hard to PROVE these bands aren't metal, or what metal even IS because that can be up for debate......but as someone who has listened to more metal and rock bands than I can count I would have to say I don't see most of that kind of music as being metal because it just plain isn't heavy enough.
However, some of those bands may have been considered metal back in the 80s....and standards DO change over time.
Anyways, good talk.
