" Hair Metal" vs Grunge

[Mycophile]

That's a dark song, beautiful lyrics though. I was listening to "Blow Up the Outside World" and "Pretty Noose" last night. As soon as he died, "Pretty Noose" had a lot more meaning to it in an unfortunate, eerie way.

I didn't know he was addicted to heroin at only 12. That's super young to be dealing with such a hardcore drug. He always struggled with addiction, but he got clean. They blamed the suicide on Ativan. He always dealt with depression so maybe taking too much Ativan lowered his inhibitions and made it easier for him to take his own life. He committed suicide in my city after a gig. So it had even more of an impact on me. It triggered my own thoughts like that. I had to talk myself off of a ledge. Chester Bennington and Chris Cornell were best friends. So when Chris died, it made Chester give up and kill himself soon after. Suicide is contagious. You have to be very careful not to let another person's death take you out as well.

I'm just glad I got to see Soundgarden and Nine Inch Nails together a few years ago on my birthday.

I think it's total bullshit that Ativan made Cornell kill himself and I think that's what his wife wants to believe cause she can't deal with his death.

I mean, first off, I don't' think any drug MAKES anyone kill themselves, but beyond that I don't even personally believe that that drug is strong enough to have been the motivating factor.

I think he had probably had thoughts and plans of suicide for years and for whatever reason we'll never know he decided to do it at that point, and perhaps Ativan did lower his inhibitions and make it easier, but if he was that far gone IMO most likely he'd have killed himself anyway at a later date even if he wasn't on Ativan.

I'm glad you were able to stay strong and not hurt yourself.

Also, no offense, but I don't believe, no matter how good friends they were, that "when Chris died it made Chester give up and kill himself."

Even you language there "MADE him give up" doesn't work for me.

People ALWAYS have a choice in taking their lives and while something, like a drug or the death of a friend might MOTIVATE someone to take their own lives, nothing ever takes a person's own free will in their decision away from them.

PERHAPS Chester was MOTIVATED (or rather DE-motivated and depressed) by Cornell's death and ALONG WITH OTHER PROBLEMS that was a triggering FACTOR.....but there has to be A WHOLE LOT more going wrong in someone's life for them to decide to kill themselves other than just the death of a friend, no matter how good, in my personal opinion.

 

[Mycophile]

So what did you read?

You can do a quick search and find plenty of information about them being very close friends and Chester killed himself on what would've been Chris Cornell's 53rd birthday. To me, that makes an obvious statement that Chris's suicide influenced Chester's decision.

There are some who believe both of them were killed because they were about to expose a pedophile ring, but no comment...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/07/20/chester-bennington-died-on-chris-cornells-birthday-and-their-friendship-goes-back-years/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9a40a0230ecf

Good article, but nothing in it says that Cornell's suicide "MADE" Chester kill himself.

It says Chester was very depressed about it and killed himself on Chris's 53rd birthday, so I think it's a good assumption that there was a strong connection and that it was a FACTOR which probably INFLUENCED his decision, but saying it MADE him do it is just not sound logic.

I like that this time around you said it "INFLUENCED" Chester's decision.

There had to have been a LOT more wrong in Chester's life to do that even over the death of one good friend.

What about all the people who have so many loved ones die in horrible circumstances, suicide or not, who DON'T kill themselves?

There's LOTS of factors involved in suicide.

Also, you said "suicide is contagious", and while there is SOME truth to that, there's also a lot of falsehood.

Does "suicide contagion" exist?

Yes, in the sense that human beings are not 100% alone in this world, and I think in many ways many of us may not realize how much our decisions effect others and that in many ways human beings are like an ant colony, or like each person is a different individual part of one giant person that is humanity, symbolically speaking, one person might be a lung, another a minute cell in the stomach, another a finger, another a heart valve, etc......to the extent that when one small part is damaged it effects the whole....and parts closer to the damaged part may be more likely to malfunction stop working or die....so to speak.

YES....psychologically speaking people can be influenced by suicide, but I think people can be just as psychologically influenced to NOT commit suicide if they, for example, hear that a friend is THINKING about it but decides NOT to and is strong and resists....why would that choice not be just as "contagious"?

What about "staying strong and NOT committing suicide "CONTAGION"? Why can't that be a thing?

Ever hear about how no one could ever run a sub-4 minute mile till one guy did it and then suddenly within a few MONTHS after that SEVERAL other people were able to break the same record because suddenly they believed they could?

That's an example of POSITIVE psychological contagion as an accomplishment influenced others' accomplishments, and it is every bit as "contagious" as suicide.

It's a false claim to say suicide is contagious IMO in the way YOU make it sound.....or the way you made the Ativan statement about it MAKING Cornell kill himself sound......as if these things are just like dominos: one person kills themselves, then...woops...now another has no choice and kills himself, now another has no choice and kills herself etc.......like someone's suicide, OR a drug, just FORCES someone to kill themselves and takes away their choice or free will???

Yeah, no offense but that's just not how life works.

There are all kinds of factors that could lead to suicide, but in the end, the person themselves still has the free will to choose not to do it.

Whether or not they FEEL they have the choice is a different matter, and if they FEEL they have no choice, or just simply don't want to live anymore, that's when they'll do it....at least in my opinion.

 

[nuttynutskin]

So what did you read?

You can do a quick search and find plenty of information about them being very close friends and Chester killed himself on what would've been Chris Cornell's 53rd birthday. To me, that makes an obvious statement that Chris's suicide influenced Chester's decision.

There are some who believe both of them were killed because they were about to expose a pedophile ring, but no comment...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/07/20/chester-bennington-died-on-chris-cornells-birthday-and-their-friendship-goes-back-years/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9a40a0230ecf

I forgot about the date... It's my belief that he was going to kill himself regardless and either chose that date, or it was one hell of a coincidence. I don't believe that someone's suicide is "contagious" or that he killed himself because his friend did also. That's just silly imo.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Showing my age here sadly.

 

[inflagranteineveryway]

I think it's total bullshit that Ativan made Cornell kill himself and I think that's what his wife wants to believe cause she can't deal with his death.

I mean, first off, I don't' think any drug MAKES anyone kill themselves, but beyond that I don't even personally believe that that drug is strong enough to have been the motivating factor.

I think he had probably had thoughts and plans of suicide for years and for whatever reason we'll never know he decided to do it at that point, and perhaps Ativan did lower his inhibitions and make it easier, but if he was that far gone IMO most likely he'd have killed himself anyway at a later date even if he wasn't on Ativan.

I'm glad you were able to stay strong and not hurt yourself.

Also, no offense, but I don't believe, no matter how good friends they were, that "when Chris died it made Chester give up and kill himself."

Even you language there "MADE him give up" doesn't work for me.

People ALWAYS have a choice in taking their lives and while something, like a drug or the death of a friend might MOTIVATE someone to take their own lives, nothing ever takes a person's own free will in their decision away from them.

PERHAPS Chester was MOTIVATED (or rather DE-motivated and depressed) by Cornell's death and ALONG WITH OTHER PROBLEMS that was a triggering FACTOR.....but there has to be A WHOLE LOT more going wrong in someone's life for them to decide to kill themselves other than just the death of a friend, no matter how good, in my personal opinion.

For what its worth, the only time in my life I attempted suicide was when I washed a few Ativans down with a small glass of vodka. I took the combination because I felt myself on the verge of a huge panic attack, and instead it just made everything worse. I can tell you that when I went into my bathroom that night, I only went in there to take come pills and and drink a little alcohol to calm down. I didn't want my kids to see me fall apart (my husband of 17 years had just left me for my best friend). The last thing I could have imagined, ESPECIALLY because my children were home, would be me trying to kill myself. And it wasn't suicidal ideation, I was hauled off in an ambulance and put on an involuntary psych hold in the local looney bin. Not exactly a great memory. For me or my kids. The only reason I am alive is because one of my kids after knocking on the bathroom door and not getting a response, called a friend that only lived a few miles away, who called an ambulance.

Within 45 minutes after taking the ativan I was laying on the floor with both wrists slashed. I've never considered suicide before, or since. That was 12 years ago, and I have had practically every psycho pharmacologic under the sun and nothing has ever put me in a place where suicide seemed to be an option. To this day I don't know why I did it, it was like I was on autopilot and I just stood there helplessly watching it happen. I know that ativan has its place in the anxiety med world, and that's great. I also believe benzos (or any drug for that matter) create different reactions on different people.

I would recommend strongly, however, not taking it of you are clinically depressed. It nearly cost me my life. I agree with you that ativan isn't some drug that commands suicide, you have to be in a vulnerable state, but I believe that one particular drug had a unique affect. When I heard Chris died after taking a few ativans, I knew exactly what happened. I was smiling and seemingly fine just hours before I tried to kill myself too. Too much of a coincidence. IMHO, anyway. Just reporting my experience. In fact, I made an account here just to post this warning. I wish more people had a bigger awareness of ativan on depressive patients.

 

[Mycophile]

For what its worth, the only time in my life I attempted suicide was when I washed a few Ativans down with a small glass of vodka. I took the combination because I felt myself on the verge of a huge panic attack, and instead it just made everything worse. I can tell you that when I went into my bathroom that night, I only went in there to take come pills and and drink a little alcohol to calm down. I didn't want my kids to see me fall apart (my husband of 17 years had just left me for my best friend). The last thing I could have imagined, ESPECIALLY because my children were home, would be me trying to kill myself. And it wasn't suicidal ideation, I was hauled off in an ambulance and put on an involuntary psych hold in the local looney bin. Not exactly a great memory. For me or my kids. The only reason I am alive is because one of my kids after knocking on the bathroom door and not getting a response, called a friend that only lived a few miles away, who called an ambulance.

Within 45 minutes after taking the ativan I was laying on the floor with both wrists slashed. I've never considered suicide before, or since. That was 12 years ago, and I have had practically every psycho pharmacologic under the sun and nothing has ever put me in a place where suicide seemed to be an option. To this day I don't know why I did it, it was like I was on autopilot and I just stood there helplessly watching it happen. I know that ativan has its place in the anxiety med world, and that's great. I also believe benzos (or any drug for that matter) create different reactions on different people.

I would recommend strongly, however, not taking it of you are clinically depressed. It nearly cost me my life. I agree with you that ativan isn't some drug that commands suicide, you have to be in a vulnerable state, but I believe that one particular drug had a unique affect. When I heard Chris died after taking a few ativans, I knew exactly what happened. I was smiling and seemingly fine just hours before I tried to kill myself too. Too much of a coincidence. IMHO, anyway. Just reporting my experience. In fact, I made an account here just to post this warning. I wish more people had a bigger awareness of ativan on depressive patients.

Well your experience is yours and it's legit for you, but me personally, I take Klonopin and have been for the past 15 years (I know I know, it's generally not a good idea to be on long term and I wish I could get off of it, but right now I can't cause I have bad anxiety) and I take them because I have generalized anxiety disorder and other anxiety problems, and I also have depression too, and I've drank on them more times than I can count (yes it's not a great idea) and they never made me want to kill myself.

What's more, many many other people take benzos and don't want to kill themselves.

Ativan/Lorazapam is pretty damn close to the same thing is Klonopin, not EXACTLY the same as they are 2 different benzos, but they are both benzos, and no offense, but your bolded comment right there "I knew exactly what happened" is kind of the problem, cause even despite your experience, no offense...BUT NO YOU DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

All you know is that you tried to kill yourself on Ativan and that Chris Cornell killed himself on it.

What you dont' know is that Cornell had a history of depression, was already addicted to Heroin at age 12 which probably led to a lifetime of changes in his brain that could have given him depression, and yet even all that is STILL not much for either of us to know.

We don't know what else went on in Cornell's head, we don't know his motivators at all.

All we know is ONE OR TWO THINGS like that he took Ativan and was a junkie at the age of 12 and had a history of depression and drug problems.

We really know about 1% or less of his situation, and I for one REFUSE to believe that Ativan was what made the difference.

My mom takes Ativan for anxiety and never wants to kill herself, and I take a closely related drug and have not tried to kill myself.

Once again, Ativan COULD have been ONE of MANY different factors, but I think people place WAY WAY more importance on that than they should.

My guess is he would have killed himself eventually anyway, and had probably thought about it or planned on doing it many times before.

Sad but it's true.

Stayled and Cobain also killed themselves and they never took Ativan to my knowledge, but they WERE all heroin junkies.

If I had to guess, heroin and opiate addiction played a larger role in all their deaths and in Cornell's death than the Ativan as he could have had a relapse and heroin and opiate addiction leads to MASSIVE depression, and even that would still only be a PARTIAL explanation.

We will really probably never know exactly why Cornell killed himself, but man, what a great musician he was, and I'm thankful I've gotten to appreciate his music.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Good article, but nothing in it says that Cornell's suicide "MADE" Chester kill himself.

It says Chester was very depressed about it and killed himself on Chris's 53rd birthday, so I think it's a good assumption that there was a strong connection and that it was a FACTOR which probably INFLUENCED his decision, but saying it MADE him do it is just not sound logic.

I like that this time around you said it "INFLUENCED" Chester's decision.

There had to have been a LOT more wrong in Chester's life to do that even over the death of one good friend.

What about all the people who have so many loved ones die in horrible circumstances, suicide or not, who DON'T kill themselves?

There's LOTS of factors involved in suicide.

Also, you said "suicide is contagious", and while there is SOME truth to that, there's also a lot of falsehood.

Does "suicide contagion" exist?

Yes, in the sense that human beings are not 100% alone in this world, and I think in many ways many of us may not realize how much our decisions effect others and that in many ways human beings are like an ant colony, or like each person is a different individual part of one giant person that is humanity, symbolically speaking, one person might be a lung, another a minute cell in the stomach, another a finger, another a heart valve, etc......to the extent that when one small part is damaged it effects the whole....and parts closer to the damaged part may be more likely to malfunction stop working or die....so to speak.

YES....psychologically speaking people can be influenced by suicide, but I think people can be just as psychologically influenced to NOT commit suicide if they, for example, hear that a friend is THINKING about it but decides NOT to and is strong and resists....why would that choice not be just as "contagious"?

What about "staying strong and NOT committing suicide "CONTAGION"? Why can't that be a thing?

Ever hear about how no one could ever run a sub-4 minute mile till one guy did it and then suddenly within a few MONTHS after that SEVERAL other people were able to break the same record because suddenly they believed they could?

That's an example of POSITIVE psychological contagion as an accomplishment influenced others' accomplishments, and it is every bit as "contagious" as suicide.

It's a false claim to say suicide is contagious IMO in the way YOU make it sound.....or the way you made the Ativan statement about it MAKING Cornell kill himself sound......as if these things are just like dominos: one person kills themselves, then...woops...now another has no choice and kills himself, now another has no choice and kills herself etc.......like someone's suicide, OR a drug, just FORCES someone to kill themselves and takes away their choice or free will???

Yeah, no offense but that's just not how life works.

There are all kinds of factors that could lead to suicide, but in the end, the person themselves still has the free will to choose not to do it.

Whether or not they FEEL they have the choice is a different matter, and if they FEEL they have no choice, or just simply don't want to live anymore, that's when they'll do it....at least in my opinion.

Jesus, calm down. Ok, "influenced" his decision and yes I did use the word "influence" the second time around and I know it wasn't the only reason for Chester's death. Chester was sexually abused as a child, there are other factors. Just saying Chris's death could have been the final push.

Is that ok to say? I have a good kratom buzz, not trying to blow it on this when clearly what I was said was blown way out of proportion.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

I forgot about the date... It's my belief that he was going to kill himself regardless and either chose that date, or it was one hell of a coincidence. I don't believe that someone's suicide is "contagious" or that he killed himself because his friend did also. That's just silly imo.

When a close friend or family member kills himself or herself, it could very well influence your decision to follow their lead, especially if you've been battling depression. That's all I meant by being "contagious". Ok? And that's not silly at all to me. It happens all the time.

 

[inflagranteineveryway]

Well your experience is yours and it's legit for you, but me personally, I take Klonopin and have been for the past 15 years (I know I know, it's generally not a good idea to be on long term and I wish I could get off of it, but right now I can't cause I have bad anxiety) and I take them because I have generalized anxiety disorder and other anxiety problems, and I also have depression too, and I've drank on them more times than I can count (yes it's not a great idea) and they never made me want to kill myself.

What's more, many many other people take benzos and don't want to kill themselves.

Ativan/Lorazapam is pretty damn close to the same thing is Klonopin, not EXACTLY the same as they are 2 different benzos, but they are both benzos, and no offense, but your bolded comment right there "I knew exactly what happened" is kind of the problem, cause even despite your experience, no offense...BUT NO YOU DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

All you know is that you tried to kill yourself on Ativan and that Chris Cornell killed himself on it.

What you dont' know is that Cornell had a history of depression, was already addicted to Heroin at age 12 which probably led to a lifetime of changes in his brain that could have given him depression, and yet even all that is STILL not much for either of us to know.

We don't know what else went on in Cornell's head, we don't know his motivators at all.

All we know is ONE OR TWO THINGS like that he took Ativan and was a junkie at the age of 12 and had a history of depression and drug problems.

We really know about 1% or less of his situation, and I for one REFUSE to believe that Ativan was what made the difference.

My mom takes Ativan for anxiety and never wants to kill herself, and I take a closely related drug and have not tried to kill myself.

Once again, Ativan COULD have been ONE of MANY different factors, but I think people place WAY WAY more importance on that than they should.

My guess is he would have killed himself eventually anyway, and had probably thought about it or planned on doing it many times before.

Sad but it's true.

Stayled and Cobain also killed themselves and they never took Ativan to my knowledge, but they WERE all heroin junkies.

If I had to guess, heroin and opiate addiction played a larger role in all their deaths and in Cornell's death than the Ativan as he could have had a relapse and heroin and opiate addiction leads to MASSIVE depression, and even that would still only be a PARTIAL explanation.

We will really probably never know exactly why Cornell killed himself, but man, what a great musician he was, and I'm thankful I've gotten to appreciate his music.

Gee, thanks for your super compassionate reply. It's hard enough thinking about that night, talking about it even harder. I said every specifically this was just my experience. It's my opinion the Ativan specifically made things worse for Chris, BECAUSE of his depression. I said several times that ativan and benzos in particular have their place for anxiety, just not for depression. Hell, I take valium every day for anxiety. I know that all benzos are familiar, but they are not identical. I said very clearly that ativan doesn't just make you want to kill yourself, it's only a component, in some situations. Like mine, and Chris's. I don't know how I could be more clear. I was just trying to pass along my experience in the hopes it may help someone else that would use it during a severe depression. In my opinion, it should only be used for anxiety, that was my point.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

For what its worth, the only time in my life I attempted suicide was when I washed a few Ativans down with a small glass of vodka. I took the combination because I felt myself on the verge of a huge panic attack, and instead it just made everything worse. I can tell you that when I went into my bathroom that night, I only went in there to take come pills and and drink a little alcohol to calm down. I didn't want my kids to see me fall apart (my husband of 17 years had just left me for my best friend). The last thing I could have imagined, ESPECIALLY because my children were home, would be me trying to kill myself. And it wasn't suicidal ideation, I was hauled off in an ambulance and put on an involuntary psych hold in the local looney bin. Not exactly a great memory. For me or my kids. The only reason I am alive is because one of my kids after knocking on the bathroom door and not getting a response, called a friend that only lived a few miles away, who called an ambulance.

Within 45 minutes after taking the ativan I was laying on the floor with both wrists slashed. I've never considered suicide before, or since. That was 12 years ago, and I have had practically every psycho pharmacologic under the sun and nothing has ever put me in a place where suicide seemed to be an option. To this day I don't know why I did it, it was like I was on autopilot and I just stood there helplessly watching it happen. I know that ativan has its place in the anxiety med world, and that's great. I also believe benzos (or any drug for that matter) create different reactions on different people.

I would recommend strongly, however, not taking it of you are clinically depressed. It nearly cost me my life. I agree with you that ativan isn't some drug that commands suicide, you have to be in a vulnerable state, but I believe that one particular drug had a unique affect. When I heard Chris died after taking a few ativans, I knew exactly what happened. I was smiling and seemingly fine just hours before I tried to kill myself too. Too much of a coincidence. IMHO, anyway. Just reporting my experience. In fact, I made an account here just to post this warning. I wish more people had a bigger awareness of ativan on depressive patients.

Thank you for sharing your experience with Ativan. It gives more insight into what could've contributed to Chris's horrible state of mind. I'm glad you're still with us, that sounds scary.

Suicide ideation is one of the side effects and even Chris's wife is blaming his suicide on Ativan. He took an extra dose so it's also important to only take what's recommended.

Chris Cornell’s Wife Just Blamed His Death on an FDA-Approved Psychoactive Drug

Chris Cornell’s Wife Just Blamed His Death on an FDA-Approved Psychoactive Drug By Matt Agorist - The Free Thought Project On Thursday, rock fans worldwide were shocked and saddened to hear that the legendary Soundgarden singer, Chris Cornell,

thedailycoin.org

 

[Mycophile]

Gee, thanks for your super compassionate reply. It's hard enough thinking about that night, talking about it even harder. I said every specifically this was just my experience. It's my opinion the Ativan specifically made things worse for Chris, BECAUSE of his depression. I said several times that ativan and benzos in particular have their place for anxiety, just not for depression. Hell, I take valium every day for anxiety. I know that all benzos are familiar, but they are not identical. I said very clearly that ativan doesn't just make you want to kill yourself, it's only a component, in some situations. Like mine, and Chris's. I don't know how I could be more clear. I was just trying to pass along my experience in the hopes it may help someone else that would use it during a severe depression. In my opinion, it should only be used for anxiety, that was my point.

I'm sorry, I didn't think I was really being a dick in my past and sorry if it came off that way.

I said I was sorry for what you went through and glad you are ok.

I just don't know that Ativan necessarily was what made Cornell kill himself.

I am very sorry for your experience and glad your were able to get the help you needed.

Maybe it came off differently in writing.

 

[Mycophile]

Thank you for sharing your experience with Ativan. It gives more insight into what could've contributed to Chris's horrible state of mind. I'm glad you're still with us, that sounds scary.

Suicide ideation is one of the side effects and even Chris's wife is blaming his suicide on Ativan. He took an extra dose so it's also important to only take what's recommended.

Chris Cornell’s Wife Just Blamed His Death on an FDA-Approved Psychoactive Drug

Chris Cornell’s Wife Just Blamed His Death on an FDA-Approved Psychoactive Drug By Matt Agorist - The Free Thought Project On Thursday, rock fans worldwide were shocked and saddened to hear that the legendary Soundgarden singer, Chris Cornell,

thedailycoin.org

See, I'd read that before, and while I DO think it was a factor, I still just don't think it could have been enough by itself.

I think it may have been "the straw that broke the camel's back" for someone who was probably already very depressed and probably had a long history of depression and substance abuse.

When a loved one dies, a lot of times those close to them feel a need to blame a substance or a thing on it, whether it's a drug or a gun or whatever, rather than looking further into the issue.

I just don't believe pretty much ANY drug alone can be the reason for someone's killing themselves like that.

I think there are always multiple factors in play.

 

[Mycophile]

Jesus, calm down. Ok, "influenced" his decision and yes I did use the word "influence" the second time around and I know it wasn't the only reason for Chester's death. Chester was sexually abused as a child, there are other factors. Just saying Chris's death could have been the final push.

Is that ok to say? I have a good kratom buzz, not trying to blow it on this when clearly what I was said was blown way out of proportion.

Sorry, yeah totally don't ruin your Kratom buzz.

Yeah, "influenced" is the word I'd use.

Chester's being molested and Chris's having used heroin as early as 12 and having had a long history of issues are things I would consider much bigger influences to their suicides than Ativan or Cornell's death.

That's just my personal opinion.

Peace.

 

[Marla1976]

The "Hair Metal" era, roughly '83 to '92 or so, represents the last time Heavy Metal was truly relevant. It represents the last time rock was culturally 'dangerous' and also fun as a genre - when rockstars still roamed the Earth. Took my nephew to see Arcade Fire two years ago. A good band. The audience seemed to enjoy themselves. But they had know idea what it was like when Motley Crue or Poison hit the stage.

I feel sorry for kids today. If you didn't see it and all you know is the current hipster revisionist history, I can understand why it seemed silly. It was silly, even then. But we didn't care. The songs sounded great.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

^ Did you see the movie about Motley Crew on Netflix, "The Dirt"? It's really fun to watch.

 

[Marla1976]

^ Did you see the movie about Motley Crew on Netflix, "The Dirt"? It's really fun to watch.

The dirt was awesome! I enjoyed the movie a lot. The thing that kind of irked me as a big Motley fan is they had no one portray Nona. The song on Girls, Girls, Girls. That was Nikki's grandmother that took care of him a lot of his childhood, because his mom was a drunk & his father didn't give a shit about him. Nobody was more badass than Motley Crue! Tommy Lee was one of the best straightforward 4/4 drummers of the time. No arguing that. Nikki was an amazing songwriter too. And Mick Mars wrote some of the best guitar riffs of the 80's. However, I have always found his guitar solos to be humdrum. Even Vince back in the 80's/early 90's could at least hold a tune. And sing the words, mostly. The best thing was that he was a terrific frontman. Amazing to watch live. So raw and energetic. He lost that in the late 90's and has never even tried to get it back, only got worse and worse until now he can't even sing a full word and relies 100% on auto-tune to stay even close.

 

[Marla1976]

Well as a metal head I must also agree the 80s RULED and were really the decade that metal in general, regarldess of subgenres, came of age.

Metal was born in the late 60s and the 70s were basically metal's childhood, but the 80s were metal's angsty teenage years and everything was forming then. Likewise, I think the 90s saw more mature metal, and now in the 2000s metal is REALLY diverse.

I TOTALLY agree with you by the way that Nirvana in my PERSONAL opinion was FAR from the best grunge band. My favorite is Soundgarden and I was VERY upset when Cornell died and I think they were the most talented. My 2nd favorite was AIC who I also like and think is more talented than Nirvana.

I never really got into Pearl Jam so I can't speak on them, and I felt Stone Temple Pilots just imitated everyone else.

But I DID and still DO like Nirvana for what they did and Cobain as a figure in his own right.

I didn't say Nirvana was "anti-mainstream"....in fact, they BECAME mainstream but supposedly the problem was that Kurt never WANTED them to be.

What I said is ME PERSONALLY, I feel that his music and grunge music "has more substance to it in terms of lyric themes and overall atmosphere than hair metal."

I'll admit, I don't know a REAL lot about hair metal, but I've heard songs by bands like Ratt, Winger, Warrant, Poision, etc and always really strongly disliked them all, and what I always saw as their "thing" was that they were trying to get lots of girls, get with their female fans, party and drink and do coke and wear make up and live the very materialistic lifestyle that the 80s was really all about.

I mean you know the 80s were materialistic right? The whole era of "the material girl" (by the way I LOVE Cindi Lauper LOL)

It was a decade of excess, people had more money, and that excess showed in hair metal.

Grunge was about the "not so pretty" side of life: depression, drugs, loss, etc, and I myself like a lot of VERY dark music so I relate.

You don't have to and that's cool, but I just don't quite get why you like to bash grunge so much.

I mean I get it: you had a style you loved and along came another style you didn't and kind of kicked it off the airwaves and MTV, but that's ancient history now and I think if possible they should have kept BOTH hair metal and grunge on MTV so people could enjoy both but whatever.

And while you MIGHT be right that "hair metal" wasn't the term back then..GLAM rock/glam metal most CERTAINLY existed and I have never liked glam rock much at all, minus Skid Row and I guess Kiss has some ok stuff but I was never the biggest fan of them either.

Also, people liked Nirvana BEFORE he killed himself, and even if his suicide did make them so much more popular (cause of course it did...) isn't it a BIT unfair to blame Cobain for offing himself??

I mean, the guy was OBVIOUSLY miserable or he would not have blown his head off with a shotgun and I feel sorry for the guy just like I do for Cornell, Stayley and all people, famous or not, who kill themselves.

I don't know if you've watched the latest Kurt Cobain documentary "Montage of Heck" that came out a few years back, but you get to hear and see a lot of what he went through and he had a lot of suffering he channeled into his music.

Suicide itself should not make someone famous, but that's not ALL that made Nirvana famous for one, and for two, beyond being the singer of a famous band Cobain was just a person who was miserable and offed himself and deserves a little sympathy IMO.

Finally, I will still maintain that glam rock WAS a distinct style of rock/metal scene as NOT being the same thing as thrash, death metal, early black metal, power metal, traditional heavy metal, doom metal or other styles of metal in the 1980s.

Have you ever checked out the website Encyclopedia Metallum: The Metal Archives??

You should.

They are by and large considered to be THE BIGGEST AUTHORITY ON WHAT IS AND IS NOT HEAVY METAL ON THE INTERNET.

Sometimes I disagree with them, but really, they are as much of an authority as it gets on metal, and most of the glam bands (or hair metal) that you and others like are not even listed on that site or considered by them to be metal.

Ratt, Poison, White Snake, Winger, Warrant, KISS, Cinderella, etc are not even on there because the members of The Metal Archives decided in a series of meetings that they are not true metal bands but rock bands, and I tend to agree with them.

Skid Row IS on there though.

I mean I'm sure you might scoff at that, but this is a BIG well established site full of people who dedicate their lives to metal and they have regular weekly meetings to discus what bands are and are not metal based on NUMEROUS criteria and if they aren't then they don't include them on the site.

Of course, it would be hard to PROVE these bands aren't metal, or what metal even IS because that can be up for debate......but as someone who has listened to more metal and rock bands than I can count I would have to say I don't see most of that kind of music as being metal because it just plain isn't heavy enough.

However, some of those bands may have been considered metal back in the 80s....and standards DO change over time.

Anyways, good talk.

One thing you have to admit; as goofy as the 80's hair band guitarists looked with the big hair, make-up and spandex they spent years mastering their craft with blistering guitar riffs and killer solos whereas Cobain shot up the charts playing rinky-dink power chords and amateurish piss ant guitar solos. Go figure! A few months back I was in a local music store and saw this young 15-ish looking boy playing the guitar intro to Alice Cooper's "Poison" on a Fender Strat. I walked up to him and shook his hand and thanked him for NOT playing that "Come as you are" or "Smells like Teen Spirit" bullshit like most people I hear his age play. Judging from the smile he gave me he knew exactly what I was getting at!

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

The dirt was awesome! I enjoyed the movie a lot. The thing that kind of irked me as a big Motley fan is they had no one portray Nona. The song on Girls, Girls, Girls. That was Nikki's grandmother that took care of him a lot of his childhood, because his mom was a drunk & his father didn't give a shit about him. Nobody was more badass than Motley Crue! Tommy Lee was one of the best straightforward 4/4 drummers of the time. No arguing that. Nikki was an amazing songwriter too. And Mick Mars wrote some of the best guitar riffs of the 80's. However, I have always found his guitar solos to be humdrum. Even Vince back in the 80's/early 90's could at least hold a tune. And sing the words, mostly. The best thing was that he was a terrific frontman. Amazing to watch live. So raw and energetic. He lost that in the late 90's and has never even tried to get it back, only got worse and worse until now he can't even sing a full word and relies 100% on auto-tune to stay even close.

Machine Gun Kelly was the perfect Tommy Lee! I was really impressed by his performance. I can see why you were annoyed Nona wasn't in it. I don't know anything about their story so 'The Dirt' was fascinating. My friend who read the book asked me if they featured the groupie who squirts. I was like "Oh yeah, right at the beginning, there's a party and a girl squirts across the room." Haha Motley Crue were insane!

 

[Hylight]

Critics always focused way too much on how "pretty" the band members were, bands like Cinderella, Warrant, Poison, they basically forgot the music. I don't exactly hear teens today listening to "Hair" metal music which kinda saddens me. I think more teens today should be more appreciative of good old rock/heavy metal bands. If it wasn't for def leppard, warrant, bon jovi, ratt, quiet riot, white snake, ozzy, kiss, and even Micheal Jackson mtv would have never made it, so what does mtv do to all those bands, they shit on all of them, mtv sucks What bothers me about a channel like MTV is that when something is popular they regard it as being 'good,' but then they'll marginalize that same stuff they made a fortune off of when its no longer considered cool. Hypocrisy and unfairness in the mainstream media bothers me more than the music I don't like.

ah the daze of good coke begonned

 

[Hylight]

who had a Poison coke mirror ? ?‍