Had enough with cigarette taboo in America?

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

I pray that your joking. Sorry if I offended you by telling your friend to educate himself, but he needs it… apparently you do too.

I am educated on the subject, if you find something you disagree with me on, please state the reasons and support your position with evidence as I have. Otherwise, don't make non-constructive flames.

I'm really, really sick and god damn tired of people flaming so much on this website. I'm sure that will encourage discussion right, just make fun of anyone with a different opinion.

eah, we are borrowing millions of dollars from China, and we have sooo much spending power. If you print money whenever you want it, with no standard… the value of it goes down.

Yes, but we do not 'print money whenever we want to'. As you said yourself, we are borrowing money from China - which is not the same as printing money.

Also, we are not necessarily borrowing millions from China - this feeds the misperception that we are somehow going over to China and asking for money, which is wrong. China is buying treasury bonds from our country. Big difference.

It appears to me, that China has more faith in our economy then you do. There is nothing wrong with us having such a huge deficit with China. China, like anyone else, can buy bonds from us. Even I have some treasury bonds in my name. On the extreme, we can simply say "Sorry China, fuck you you chi-coms!" and our debt will be gone. But, that probably won't happen. What will happen, is that we will slowly pay back those bonds over hundreds of years. There is nothing wrong with China buying so many bonds from us. This world is driven by futures markets.

Inflation is actually very low at the moment too.

You two guys need some serious education.

BTW… just to keep this somewhat on topic. Ron Paul has Never voted to increase taxes… cigarettes or otherwise, and would also like to end the war on drugs. Yeah… I can see how people think he is crazy

Seriously what the fuck is your problem. Quit with the immature flames, I never said anything against Ron Paul.

Do you know who Mike Church is? I think you would like him, he's a conservative talk show host in the same vein as Rush Limbaugh. Today I was listening to his show, and he actually said he was getting pissed off because conservatives are making fun of Ron Paul, who despite his flaws, is genuinely a conservative, with which I agree.

Ron Paul is a great candidate, but he has a fatal flaw, which in my opinion is his stance on foreign policy. I mean, it's one thing to think we shouldn't have gone to Iraq. It's quite another to want an immediate pull-out and to say that Iran does not have an airforce or army, even though they say they do and they even independently developed a 4th generation airstrike fighter jet.

The gold standard is ridiculous because it makes money an inconvenience. Please, I'd like to see you buy your new car with gold coins.

That's not true. What the gold standard would do is basically back up the dollar with something real, whereas today if you wanted to turn in your dollars to the government for something, you could not. The dollar is completely imaginary, and in a way, a total scam.

But if everyone buys into it, it works. Liek I said before, all it takes to make the dollar worth something is if your neighbor says he'll mow your lawn for $30.

I majored in Economics, specifically the field of Microeconomics, Environmental Economics, and Economic in Philanthropy and Non-business sector. I know what I'm talking about.

Sorry to burst your bubble, and sorry to burst Ron Paul's, but the economy is doing great in America. The only reason there is talk of recession is because it's election season - the economy is always bad right before an election, especially considering how there is a Republican in office (studies have actually proven that the media reports ill of the economy when a Republican is in office and good when a Democrat is in office, regardless of what the state of the actual economy is).

Inflation is low. Unemployment is statistically non-existent. Minority home-ownership is at an alltime high (55% among blacks) and so is minority entrepreneurship. The market has grown.

Only thing that is occuring is that growth slowed down Q4 2007, but there still was growth. This talk of a recession is total bullshit, and a complete lie. A recession is defined as two fiscal quarters of negative growth, which has never happened under the current administration.

The economy is always bad for someone out there, and always good for someone else.

 

[otb01]

Nobody will believe you unless you cite your sources for your claims. I suggest you start doing that, or stop talking out of your ass.

I don't look at things that way. The only thing I did was brought my point of view on the issue to light. Just because you disagree with me and can't argue is no reason to say i've ruined your thread and cry about it.

I'm not crying because you've disagreed with me, I'm just saying that you have taken this thread completely off topic with this second hand smoking topic like you have on others.

I'm tired of the cigarette taboo in america. I'm especially tired of people looking at me like I'm a murderer when I smoke one.

Yes, this is exactly what I mean! People need to mind their own fucking business!

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

It's kinda odd where I am, on a college campus.

There are alot of smokers here, more than in the general population, since so many young kids.

But the school I'm at also has an extreme high percentage of girls, and girls usually don't smoke like guys do. I always feel like I need to walk the path less traveled when I'm smoking, I don't really want people to know me as "the smoker".

I mean, I see why. Smoking stinks, that's why I rarely do it. I don't think the stigma is really undeserved against smokers - it just absolutely stinks and it's nasty when people just keep smoking cigarettes over and over. A couple is fine but it really starts to stink to hang around smokers. It really pisses me off when people smoke in my car too. Like I just get pissed off, you can't fucking wait till you get out? Some people are such asses about it to, saying how badly they need a cigarette and just being a bitch.

More than once I've told people they can get the fuck out and smoke if they don't like me driving.

 

[Tytan]

I am educated on the subject, if you find something you disagree with me on, please state the reasons and support your position with evidence as I have. Otherwise, don't make non-constructive flames.

I'm really, really sick and god damn tired of people flaming so much on this website. I'm sure that will encourage discussion right, just make fun of anyone with a different opinion.

At first my responses were not even directed at you. They were directed to two statements that were completely incorrect, made by otb01. He has seen reason on the first and I believe he has been corrected on the second (even by you in the post I’m responding to).

Besides that, don’t step into the cross-fire of someone else’s disagreement and then whine about getting flamed. Even up until this point you really didn’t offer any ‘evidence’ that supports your position.

Yes, but we do not 'print money whenever we want to'. As you said yourself, we are borrowing money from China - which is not the same as printing money.

I never made an insinuation that it was the same as printing money. Stating the obvious doesn’t help your position.

The fact is that we are printing money, AND ‘borrowing’ money from China. It was even discussed in the last Republican debate in CA.

Also, we are not necessarily borrowing millions from China - this feeds the misperception that we are somehow going over to China and asking for money, which is wrong. China is buying treasury bonds from our country. Big difference.

No there is not a big difference. The selling of US Treasury securities to China is in fact a form of borrowing. Everyone but you seems to understand that, such as it states here, and here.

It appears to me, that China has more faith in our economy then you do. There is nothing wrong with us having such a huge deficit with China. China, like anyone else, can buy bonds from us. Even I have some treasury bonds in my name. On the extreme, we can simply say "Sorry China, fuck you you chi-coms!" and our debt will be gone. But, that probably won't happen. What will happen, is that we will slowly pay back those bonds over hundreds of years. There is nothing wrong with China buying so many bonds from us. This world is driven by futures markets.

You think that because China is buying Treasury bonds that it indicates China has faith in our economy??? That is not correct. The problem with borrowing all of this money, or the selling of all these Treasury securities to China, is that it gives China more power over our economy, and makes us more dependent on them. They have the power to drive up interest rates, and other financial consequences, merely by threatening to sell the liquid notes they acquire.

Ron Paul is a great candidate, but he has a fatal flaw, which in my opinion is his stance on foreign policy. I mean, it's one thing to think we shouldn't have gone to Iraq. It's quite another to want an immediate pull-out and to say that Iran does not have an airforce or army, even though they say they do and they even independently developed a 4th generation airstrike fighter jet.

I don’t see that as a fatal flaw, I think it shows he has more sense then most people. Yeah, it’s one thing to think we should not have engaged in preemptive war like a Nazi nation, it’s quite another to want an immediate pull out because we STILL do not have a declaration of war as required by the Constitution. And Iran is just another preemptive war agenda by this new American Nazi nation, against a country who has no history of attacking neighboring nations.

You have this all wrong. Ron Paul merely says we shouldn’t be there without a declaration of war by congress in accordance with the US Constitution. And until we get one… we should not be there, and need to get the fuck out immediately.

If you don’t agree with that. Then your no better than the other fascists who think the Constitution is nothing more than a “piece of paper”.

That's not true. What the gold standard would do is basically back up the dollar with something real, whereas today if you wanted to turn in your dollars to the government for something, you could not.

The comment you’re responding to was made by otb01. Thank you helping to correct him.

But if everyone buys into it, it works. Liek I said before, all it takes to make the dollar worth something is if your neighbor says he'll mow your lawn for $30.

That’s really true regardless of what your trading, but the point is, unless it’s backed by something of value standard as you mentioned above, then your really just trading a piece of paper that doesn’t mean shit. In which case it really is a scam. That is why a gold standard is stronger than just someone “saying” it means something.

I majored in Economics, specifically the field of Microeconomics, Environmental Economics, and Economic in Philanthropy and Non-business sector. I know what I'm talking about.

With all due respect, that doesn’t mean your correct.

Sorry to burst your bubble, and sorry to burst Ron Paul's, but the economy is doing great in America. The only reason there is talk of recession is because it's election season - the economy is always bad right before an election, especially considering how there is a Republican in office (studies have actually proven that the media reports ill of the economy when a Republican is in office and good when a Democrat is in office, regardless of what the state of the actual economy is).

Again, the economy is view this way because of the declining value of the American dollar, along with our debt. Not because of the election and not because of the news. As someone who majors in economics, I would think you would realize that much.

Anyway, now that we've nearly completely derailed this thread... I'm out.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

You are completely wrong, but okay. People always like to get the last word in.

PM me if you want to continue this discussion, or pm me a link to a thread you start in Second Opinion about this.

It's cute how you are a totally wrong about everything, and then say "im out".

Anyways, back on topic...

Anyone read the Washington Post today? There was an article about how apparently Maryland banned cigarettes from all businesses (restaurants, bars, et cetera) with the sole exception of tobacco stores.

Sucks for you guys .__________.

 

[s1ck]

to opponents of second-hand smoke, let me ask this: how do you feel about the automobile industry? do you drive a car?

do you mow your lawn?

unless im totally mistaken here, the burning of fossil fuels poses a much greater risk to the well-being of the worlds health than the ritualistic burning of a (comperably) smaller amount of a psychoactive herb...

my point in this is that its absurd to object so loudly to smoking tobacco when you likely participate in much more unhealthy activities on the daily...

o and i got fired from a job for smoking cigarettes. the company didnt support it, and so when my boss saw me smoking a square out in the parking lot (i was sitting on the hood of my car AFTER WORK, talking to a girlfriend...) i lost my job. i think thats ENTIRELY unfair, especially because im not even ADDICTED to cigarettes. if that goddamn job wasnt so stressful i wouldnt have been smoking...

o and i was presented with an option: take a drug test or quit/be fired. my boss saw me smoking, so obviously id have failed. if id been forced to take the test WITHOUT having been caught, id have still been fired for using tobacco in the privacy of my own home. absurd!

 

[antbanks99]

We gotta push for Mitt Romney man, McCain's gonna make Republicans look good - to Democrats, which, is bad. lol.

Thompson would never have done this, I dunno what's wrong with South Carolina ;/

Hillary is also pretty set against smoking, so it looks like we're screwed no matter what in 2008-12.

Mitt Romney '08! If not for Iraq and the economy, then at least for smokers lol

Ehhh...Probably not the best choice either...I know you are a Republican but Mitt Romney is also Mormon, which means he has zero tolerance for smoking and drinking.

Vote Obama....he's a pretty 'lax guy.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Ehhh...Probably not the best choice either...I know you are a Republican but Mitt Romney is also Mormon, which means he has zero tolerance for smoking and drinking.

Vote Obama....he's a pretty 'lax guy.

As far as I can tell, Mitt Romney hasn't really campaigned against smoking. He signed a bill to ban smoking in 2003, but the impression I get is that he did not support it and would've rather not dealt with the issue as a whole. It seems to me he does not have a strong conviction in support of smoking rights, and would rather not ban smoking, but won't fight tooth and nail for it.

 

[klowns]

the thing is, there REALLY is NO positive correlation that says smoking will cause any kind of disease. infact the worlds oldest people have all been smokers (i mean over 100. one lady was 130 and attributed her long life to smoking)
truth of the matter is lung cancer is an extremely rare fuckign disease and is as rare in smokers as it is in non smokers. theres no connection. theres no fucking connection between second hand smoke either. god none of you believe any of the rest of the fukcing lies your government tells you likke "pot will make you go crazy and kill people and it kills you" so why the fuck do you listen to all these "truth" adds?
want the truth? tobacco is actualy known to precent several types of cancers, as well as being able to prevent alzheimers, parkinsons, and it improves mood, memory, and concentration.
want teh truth? smokers are less likely to suffer from gum rot. i dont know the mechansim. they are also less likely to die from a heart attack (i didnt say have one. i mean if a smoker and a non smoker both have a heart attack, chances are actualy better for the smoker).
now, theres an exception. if your willing to smoke radiated shit that is sprayed with over 600 extra poisons, then be my guest and yes it might fuck you up.
im talking about tobacco. tobacco is a safe plant, and nicotine is as safe as caffeine.
you dont like the smoke, fucking dont go to that particular estabolishment. this is so fucked is prohibition risiing up again on tobacco smokers this time.
and heres the other problem, the "addiction model". it is a LIE that is just all too convenient for too many businesses. such as. the smoker feels that they are hopelessly addicted, so they go to their doctor and then pay 50 dollars for some fucking nicotine in a gum. Doctors, pharmacys, and mostly drug manufacturers profit the most of the "addiction model".
while the real truth of it is TOBACCO IS NOT ADDICTIVE. im sorry if you are mentaly habituated to it, but fuck, thats just not the same. ever seen someone withdrawaing from methadone or heroin or klonopin or xanax???? ever seen a grown man drop to the floor screaming and bawling and shitting his pants because he couldnt get a ciggerette?
ITS A FUCKING HABIT.
sorry needed to vent. im sick of all these lies about the golden leaf.

 

[Ham-milton]

you know what the difference is? You can eat whatever you want and the only pain you inflict on others is sore eyes.

I don't see a reason I should have to inhale your smoke because you insist on smoking at a restaurant.

Here in WI, the where bars were fighting against a smoking ban, in the cities where bans were passed, they had increases is sales, and now are supporting a state wide ban.

 

[Chemethist]

are u kidding me, i guess selfish people really do not care about others.

Let me put it this way, im all for free-drug-use by all. BUT ONLY WHEN IT IS IN THEIR OWN HOMES AND NOT BOTHERING OTHERS.

i do heroin and every other drug, but i dont smoke. And i cannot be around smokers cuz it severely aggrevates my windpipe and smells horrible.
But of course, try to tell a smoker that his actions are bothering someone else. YEAH GOOD LUCK WITH GETTING THEM TO STOP.

ALL I CAN SAY IS AMEN to the new laws against public smoking, may they grow even stronger!

All drugs should be available to everyone BUT it is that persons responsibility to make sure they dont bother others with their actions.

 

[Daedalus705]

The county I live in tried to pull this shit not long ago but fortunately our state supreme court shot the law down before it went into effect because they deemed it unconstitutional. Unfortunately my favorite bar is voluntarily non-smoking so we have to go out on their deck for a smoke.

 

[rave23]

can someone pos a research or an abstract that 2nd hand smoke is bad when passivley inhaled?
Can it be worse than thick city-air?

 

[Chemethist]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1045229.stm

"Most lung cancers are thought to be caused by other chemicals contained in smoke.

But the latest findings, published in a US journal, suggest that nicotine alone can be converted into a chemical which has the potential to cause tumours.
"

"Lung cancer kills approximately one person in the UK every 15 minutes and about 90% of lung cancers are caused by smoking. "


lung cancer isnt caused by cigarettes? whoever said that doesnt know their ass from a hole in the ground.

ALSO FOR YOUR CANCER STICK LOVERS!

81 Cancer Causing Chemicals Have
So Far Been Identified in Cigarettes


Acetaldehyde
Acetamide
Acrylamide
Acrylonitrile
2-Amino-3,4-dimethyl-3H-imidazo[4,5-f]quinoline (MeIQ)
3-Amino-1,4-dimethyl-5H-pyrido [4,3-b]indole (Trp-P-1)
2-Amino-l-methyl-6-phenyl-1H-imidazo [4,5-b]pyridine (PhlP)
2-Amino-6-methyldipyrido[1,2-a:3',2'-d]imidazole (Glu-P-1)
3-Amino-l-methyl-5H-pyrido {4,3-b]indole (Trp-P-2
2-Amino-3-methyl-9H-pyrido[2,3-b]indole (MeAaC)
2-Amino-9H-pyrido[2,3-b]indole (AaC)
4-Aminobiphenyl
2-Aminodipyrido[1,2-a:3',2'-d]imidazole (Glu-P-2)
0-Anisidine
Arsenic
Benz[a]anthracene
Benzene
Benzo[a]pyrene
Benzofluoranthene
Benzo[j]fluoranthene
Benzo[k]fluoranthene
Benzofuran
Beryllium
1,3-Butadiene
Cadmium
Catechol (1,2-benzenediol)
p-Chloroaniline
Chloroform
Cobalt
p,p'-DDT
Dibenz[a,h]acridine
Dibenz[a,j]acridine
Dibenz(a,h)anthracene
7H-Dibenzo[c,g]carbazole
Dibenzo(a,e)pyrene
Dibenzo(a,i)pyrene
Dibenzo(a,h)pyrene
Dibenzo(a,i)pyrene
Dibenzo(a,l)pyrene
3,4-Dihydroxycinnamic acid (caffeic acid)
Ethylbenzene
Ethylene oxide
Formaldehyde
Furan
Glycidol
Heptachlor
Hydrazine
Indeno[1,2,3-cd]pyrene
IQ 92-Amino-3-methyl-3H-imidazo[4,5-f]quinoline)
Isoprene
Lead
5-Methyl-chrysene
2-Naphthylamine
Nitrobenzene
Nitrogen mustard
Nitromethane
2-Nitropropane
N-Nitrosodi-n-butylamine (NDBA)
N-Nitrosodi-n-propylamine (NDPA)
N-Nitrosodiethanolamine (NDELA)
N-Nitrosodiethylamine (DEN)
N-Nitrosodimethylamine (DMN)
N-Nitrosoethylmethylamine (NEMA, MEN)
4-(N-Nitrosomethylamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-1-butanone (NNK)
N'-Nitrosonornicotine (NNN)
N-Nitrosopiperidine (NPIP, NPP)
N-Nitrosopyrrolidine (NPYR, NPY)
Polonium-210 (Radon 222)
Propylene oxide
Safrole
Styrene
Tetrachloroethylene
o-Toluidine (2-methylaniline)
Trichloroethylene
Urethane (carbamic acid, ethyl ester)
Vinyl acetate
Vinyl chloride
4-Vinylcyclohexene
2,6-Xylidine (2,6-dimethylaniline)

 

[Tsukasa]

^ wow, that's like all the carcinogens known to man right there.http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npotocca.html

Why the hell would they put all that shit in their? just to make it taste or burn better?
That list makes smog seem relatively harmless compared to tobacco smoke.

 

[klowns]

why is it so hard for you to simply go to a non smoking resturaunt, but leave us the freedom to be able to smoke indoors. here its routinely -20 degrees. people need a place to smoke inside.


[chill out. - 6/7]

 

[Chemethist]

haha all i can say is god bless the new cigarette laws. cigarettes arent any different than any other drug, and if other drugs are banned, cigs should be banned too, ESPECIALLY in public.

When all drugs are legal, then maybe ill say tobacco is allowed in public, but no way till then, let the laws keep comin! ban that nasty 2nd hand shit!

 

[Bavanai]

Burn the blasphemers!

Hope you understand where I'm getting at.

 

[klowns]

so by your logic, alcohol and asprin, and cough syrup, and all other drugs shuld be banned as well? leave the smokers alone and they will leave you alone. why must you insist on telling others how to live their lifestyle?

[Seriously. Relax. - 6/7]

 

[Bavanai]

so by your logic, alcohol and asprin, and cough syrup, and all other drugs shuld be banned as well? leave the smokers alone and they will leave you alone. why must you insist on telling others how to live their lifestyle?

Heh I'd ban or at least severely control alcohol because it's a direct danger to other people than the consumer. I'm so sick of hearing about fights, crimes, accidents etc caused by people under the influence of alcohol. But drugs that only have the potential of damaging the consumer should be legal.