Gun, drug texts feature in new Trayvon Martin shooting evidence

[Fjones]

If it were someone in a uniform, the best thing to do to avoid trouble, though, is to go and meet them.

I learned that the other week when I pulled out of a place where I picked up an oxygen machine, and a cop stopped and turned around, to follow me. I kept putting my hands up, like "what?!" and finally he just pulled me over. Made up a reason to detain me. When I asked him why he pulled me over, he didn't tell me at first- until I gave him my license, which I was holding onto because I hadn't done anything wrong (he had to threaten criminal charges for me to comply), but then he told me it was because I was pulling out of a place that was closed/after hours, and that I didn't signal 200 feet before turning, which I replied including that I was a courier and why I was there, that- "well, i don't even think there's 200 feet between the place you saw me pull out of, and the turn"- to which he did agree that that was a high possibility, so I basically caught him breaking the laws he's supposed to uphold, and bullshitting. He had already decided to pursue me... I was detained momentarily, and a patient had to go without their oxygen machine for another 15 minutes or so. I was pissed, but it could have been avoided had I just rolled up next to him when he slowed as he went by the place I was pulling out of, and said, "Hi...".

It really didn't matter that the officer was in the wrong to begin with, here... for me... It was at that point, to minimize the danger and impact on myself, I should have just known what was up, like "hey, man, i know you suspect me of something. look. nothing in my hands. am i clear? not a bad guy".

But, some of the facts are coming back. I remember now that he didn't really have authority to pursue this guy. I am not sure if he really detained him, though, or tried to. He should have at the very least identified himself (Zimmerman) to Trayvon. I probably have no right to an opinion, or stance, because I haven't paid a ton of attention to it, and wasn't there. I just know that he media portrayed Trayvon as a sweet, innocent "boy", showing pictures of him when he was 15 or so, and with recent things that came to light (and before, that he's not some little 15 year old), it warrants more thought.

But the fact that Zimmerman wasn't wearing anything to ID himself, and was just in regular clothing, following this kid... well, it doesn't look too good for Zimmerman. The only thing he should have done, is call the police, if he had suspicions. Perhaps keep the kid in eye-shot. And if an altercation happened then, then it would not have really been his fault.

My opinions change a lot. But recent information does show the kid wasn't on the greatest path. But, they don't know that the guns were his, do they?

I may have been wrong to say "he got what was coming to him", but if he was serious about being "gangsta", and there was anything to those guns, it could have happened sooner or later. Not to say it's right how it did.

But he may have, really been, acting suspicious. Not just because he was black, either.

Also, some other facts as I understand them:

Zimmerman reported that Martin was "suspicious." No reason was given. Presumably, the "suspiciousness" of martin was merely because he was a black youth hanging around outside a store. If I had been standing there reading a novel, as I sometimes do at night when I am waiting for someone or something, would I have been "suspicious?" I doubt it.

Zimmerman told the cops (when he called them) that the kid "was on drugs or something," a statement that has not been justified by anything other than Zimmerman's assumption.

The cops told Zimmerman to stand down. At this point, Zimmerman had already taken action that scared/worried martin, causing Martin to flee. In my opinion, if Zimmerman at this point does anything other than leave the scene and find a safe place to wait for the cops, he remains the aggressor and has lost his right to self-defense, especially since he is ARMED. Zimmerman tried to act like a cop, but without the training and knowledge, he completely fucked it up and ended up shooting someone. Also, as I understand the law, the moment you run at someone, you may have already committed an assault. I mean, if some large man charges at me, so I have to wait for him to physically strike me before I am allowed to defend myself? He could kill me with one blow or a knife or anything. Zimmerman should NOT be arming himself and CHASING AFTER PEOPLE!

You asked if the guns are his. What guns? All we have are text messages discussing guns. So far there exists no actual gun, and for sure we know that Martin was unarmed at the time of this incident. I fail to see ANY relevance of the content of these text messages. How many of us on this site would look good if our personal text messages were revealed to the public??????? Does that mean we should be Zimermanned by some hothead vigilante cop wannabe?

 

[Fjones]

It's definitely not a pre meditated murder with any "real" motive, but this guy should go to prison for at least 5 years! there's people with non-violent drug charges doing 4 times that!

I think you omitted a zero there. Right after the "5."

 

[BlueHues]

I'm very sympathetic when it comes to sending people to prison....but that's just me....If you weighed it against how much time other people are doing for other, much less violent offenses, like drugs...or even, if you just go into a bank with no weapon, and give the teller a note demanding money, you'll catch 10 years for that without batting an eye! so maybe 50 is more in line with current sentencing, but I'd personally be satisified with something between 5-10! But of course, who am I?

 

[What 23]

You asked if the guns are his. What guns? All we have are text messages discussing guns. So far there exists no actual gun, and for sure we know that Martin was unarmed at the time of this incident. I fail to see ANY relevance of the content of these text messages. How many of us on this site would look good if our personal text messages were revealed to the public??????? Does that mean we should be Zimermanned by some hothead vigilante cop wannabe?

They were pictures. But you're right, there's no actual gun known to be in his possession at any time. And he obviously didn't use it.

Any "watch"/security guard/cop should be required to wear a hat or something, or something housing a camera, for liability. It seems like common sense anymore.

I don't think he deserves 50 years, though. Maybe five, and probation, and no right to work any kind of watch/security position ever again, perhaps. It's also too bad we can't cool heads down with some kind of therapy, because I don't think the five years will do anything to help that, and he has a history, I guess, of being called a "hot-head", before this. I think he fucked up, and if it didn't happen then, it would have happened sooner or later. Not that his intentions were evil... It honestly just sounds like he is a bit of a failure, and reflection of that added to his jumping the gun, here. Maybe his "working with police" made him feel like something, and wanted to play the role. The guy himself might've been Trayvon's age or younger, mentally, in some sense. I don't know.

I guess we could lock him up for that long... That's one way to do it. But I just don't think that that's "justice". I also don't want to compare it to sentences others get, for other things.

 

[Fjones]

They were pictures. But you're right, there's no actual gun known to be in his possession at any time. And he obviously didn't use it.

Any "watch"/security guard/cop should be required to wear a hat or something, or something housing a camera, for liability. It seems like common sense anymore.

I don't think he deserves 50 years, though. Maybe five, and probation, and no right to work any kind of watch/security position ever again, perhaps. It's also too bad we can't cool heads down with some kind of therapy, because I don't think the five years will do anything to help that, and he has a history, I guess, of being called a "hot-head", before this. I think he fucked up, and if it didn't happen then, it would have happened sooner or later. Not that his intentions were evil... It honestly just sounds like he is a bit of a failure, and reflection of that added to his jumping the gun, here. Maybe his "working with police" made him feel like something, and wanted to play the role. The guy himself might've been Trayvon's age or younger, mentally, in some sense. I don't know.

I guess we could lock him up for that long... That's one way to do it. But I just don't think that that's "justice". I also don't want to compare it to sentences others get, for other things.

Those are some good points. I am a big believer in punishment fitting the crime.

 

[BlueHues]

If the punishment fit the crime, the only punishment fitting the crime would be execution....

 

[JD55]

I forget the number they reported, but they showed Zimmerman had a hobby of reporting "suspicious" black males to the police. It was somewhere in the range of 30 calls I believe. Dudes a racist plain and simple, and he saw Trayvon being on the smaller and younger side and didnt think a confrontation with him would result in his ass getting Kicked. Do I think he planned to kill him? No. But do I think he hesitated to use his gun after he started to lose the fight he initiated? No.

 

[Fjones]

I forget the number they reported, but they showed Zimmerman had a hobby of reporting "suspicious" black males to the police. It was somewhere in the range of 30 calls I believe. Dudes a racist plain and simple, and he saw Trayvon being on the smaller and younger side and didnt think a confrontation with him would result in his ass getting Kicked. Do I think he planned to kill him? No. But do I think he hesitated to use his gun after he started to lose the fight he initiated? No.

Yeah, another thing, if Zimmerman wanted to be this hero crime-fighter, couldn't he at least learn how to fight well enough to not get his ass kicked by an unarmed 17-year old whom he outweighs by 40 to 80 pounds (depending on differing reports of the weight of the two involved).

 

[poledriver]

So is he - Zimmerman, going to trial for the death of Martin? If so when? Is there a date for it yet? Is it happening presently?

 

[What 23]

But I wasn't there. Still, it would seem that Zimmerman was at first out of line. I just don't know how it escalated. I've seen it different ways different times. His history of being a "hot-head" doesnt look good for him. Most likely manslaughter.

But did he identify himself?

Even if vocally, at least if I were that kid I would want to cooperate. Maybe he was really on drugs? Stoned? Paranoid? That can make someone appear some way.

The recipe wasn't good. Him being a failed cop or whatever he was, some in his history knowing him as a hot head.. None looks good. If he didn't identify himself that's just stupid of him.

And I don't know if he has a place questioning as watch, or does he?

 

[Fjones]

But I wasn't there. Still, it would seem that Zimmerman was at first out of line. I just don't know how it escalated. I've seen it different ways different times. His history of being a "hot-head" doesnt look good for him. Most likely manslaughter.

But did he identify himself?

Even if vocally, at least if I were that kid I would want to cooperate. Maybe he was really on drugs? Stoned? Paranoid? That can make someone appear some way.

The recipe wasn't good. Him being a failed cop or whatever he was, some in his history knowing him as a hot head.. None looks good. If he didn't identify himself that's just stupid of him.

Was there a tox screen on Trayvon Martin (anyone?) Surely we would have heard if he was actually on something? Also, was Zimmerman checked? Maybe he had been drinking; who knows?

Also, what exactly is Zimmerman supposed to be identifying himself as? "Hey, stop, I am the neighborhood watchguy?" Any criminal could easily say something like that to put his victims at ease. He shouldn't have been saying anything because he should not have been bothering Trayvon Martin in the first place.

 

[What 23]

Yea I edited more in, about not knowing if he should even be approaching him. I guess with tox I just assumed if there are exchanges of marijuana related things in text and he had recently been caught I guess (seem to remember) with something weed, unless I'm wrong, then he might have been high. This can make people act weird, especially younger people.

Not that Zimmerman was in the right with this in the beginning.

But sometimes I see other viewpoints. Even if they end up being wrong by some other. I still don't know, wasn't there... but the facts don't support Zimmerman walking, even if I can't agree with his being assaulted and can't see how it escalated. I guess Zimmerman could be a pretty messed up character.

 

[JD55]

Yea I edited more in, about not knowing if he should even be approaching him. I guess with tox I just assumed if there are exchanges of marijuana related things in text and he had recently been caught I guess (seem to remember) with something weed, unless I'm wrong, then he might have been high. This can make people act weird, especially younger people.

Not that Zimmerman was in the right with this in the beginning.

But sometimes I see other viewpoints. Even if they end up being wrong by some other. I still don't know, wasn't there... but the facts don't support Zimmerman walking, even if I can't agree with his being assaulted and can't see how it escalated. I guess Zimmerman could be a pretty messed up character.

Yeah your getting stuck up on the whole announcing himself thing. They had records from Trayvons phone from when he was on the phone talking to his Girlfriend while Zimmerman was following him. He said he doesn't know what's going on but it was apparent Zimmerman was following him through the complex. His GF told him to run which he did. Zimmerman took chase and what ensued was the fight that led to his death. Under stand your ground, Trayvon had every right to defend himself at that point because he felt his life was endangered. I mean imagine being a 17 year old and some dude very apparently following you. There's no way Zimmerman could try and claim Stand your ground when he was very clearly the aggressor, which is why his Laywers dropped that as his main defense last week.

 

[Corazon]

Zimmerman was playing neighborhood cop. He had an 'ace in the hole'(he was strapped).

He confronted Martin in an authoritative way.

Martin told him to go fuck himself.

Both men grew enraged and the conflict escalated.

A violent confrontation ensued.

Zimmerman was taking some punishment, and played his ace card. The end.


- my question is whether or not Zimmerman abused his conceal carry right.
My opinion is that a conceal carry weapon is not supposed to provide you with "courage" to enter conflicts and then be used if an emergency develops.
I think it should only be used in the event of a crime or in certain professions which have defined rules of engagement(e.g. bounty hunter).

I don't know the actual law here.

 

[JD55]

^ you can't iniate a fight and use lethal force to defend yourself. Another scenario would be if I walked up to a dude and started a fight, started to get my ass kicked, and then pull out a bat and crack said dude over the head killing him. Would there even be a debate?

 

[!_MDMA_!]

why was zimmerman strapped? he bought a gun because tons of burgalries were occuring in the neighborhood. infact in a previous incident two kids got away even though zimmerman saw them, because he called the police and they told him not to do anything.

martin was caught at school with lots of jewelry and a screwdriver, dont try to tell me he was giving it to his girlfriend after fixing up a toolshed...

theres no way zimmerman threw the first punch, he had a gun why would he engage in a fist fight? sounds like all he wanted to do was talk to martin because of all the burgularies. martin pulls the race card and gets heated and sucker punches zimmerman in the face.

if you were zimmerman and black youths were robbing houses constantly in your neighborhood, and you saw some kid who ran away from you when you wanted to talk (knowing that the last time you waited for cops they got away), you wouldnt suspect him of doing something illegal? i know zimmerman aint no cop or security, but martin escalated a simple encounter into a brawl.

tbh all that shit doesnt matter to me, if someone punches me in the face and then proceeds to be on top of me beating my ass with no end in sight, im gonna fucking shoot him. it was just unlucky the shot was fatal.

 

[xstayfadedx]

^unless you were there you can't say what exactly happened.

By the way there is no way that Zimmerman needed to shoot him. Shit if it was that bad he could of even just pistol whipped the kid (not saying he had a right to but there are other measures besides putting a bullet in someone). When he shot Martin he crossed the line... well he did that when he tried to detain him.

If a dude came up to me... in my own neighborhood and put their hands on me... I would be swinging. If you cant protect yourself without a gun then you should stay away from events that can cause altercations.

I too am black..also white. And I remember the weird looks I got walking around the housing development in which I lived! (All whites in the middle of nowhere... kkk members lived on main st). Also at odd times just because I felt like walking. There also were tons of gun holding racists. This could of been me... and shit they would of found bad pics in my phone too but doesn't mean I'm a criminal or violent. And they sure as hell would of saw the person who shot me with a bloody nose... if someone is trying to detain me and idk who they're especially if its a man... I'm fighting back.

All I'm saying is this could happen to anyone.

 

[poledriver]

I mean imagine being a 17 year old and some dude very apparently following you. There's no way Zimmerman could try and claim Stand your ground when he was very clearly the aggressor, which is why his Laywers dropped that as his main defense last week.

If this is right, then I'd be scared shitless and wondering what this dude following me might do, kidnap, rape, rob etc etc. Of course you would probably run and or fight and try not get taken by someone who has no authority to detain you. This Zimmerman dude sounds like a real piece of work to me, you can't just take the law into your own hands and kill someone and get away with it, even if there were robberies going on in the neighbourhood. I hope he has to do some serious jail time from what I've heard/read (bits and pieces mostly just on here).

 

[JD55]

why was zimmerman strapped? he bought a gun because tons of burgalries were occuring in the neighborhood. infact in a previous incident two kids got away even though zimmerman saw them, because he called the police and they told him not to do anything.

martin was caught at school with lots of jewelry and a screwdriver, dont try to tell me he was giving it to his girlfriend after fixing up a toolshed...

theres no way zimmerman threw the first punch, he had a gun why would he engage in a fist fight? sounds like all he wanted to do was talk to martin because of all the burgularies. martin pulls the race card and gets heated and sucker punches zimmerman in the face.

if you were zimmerman and black youths were robbing houses constantly in your neighborhood, and you saw some kid who ran away from you when you wanted to talk (knowing that the last time you waited for cops they got away), you wouldnt suspect him of doing something illegal? i know zimmerman aint no cop or security, but martin escalated a simple encounter into a brawl.

tbh all that shit doesnt matter to me, if someone punches me in the face and then proceeds to be on top of me beating my ass with no end in sight, im gonna fucking shoot him. it was just unlucky the shot was fatal.

Your forgetting it doesn't matter if Trayvon threw the first punch. Florida has the stand your ground law which allows you to defend yourself if you feel your life is being endangered. And like poledriver said above, all of Zimmermans actions would lead any rational person to believe this creepy dude meant to do you harm. AND that's even IF he threw the first punch. If Zimmerman did its moot.

 

[Fjones]

why was zimmerman strapped? he bought a gun because tons of burgalries were occuring in the neighborhood. infact in a previous incident two kids got away even though zimmerman saw them, because he called the police and they told him not to do anything.

martin was caught at school with lots of jewelry and a screwdriver, dont try to tell me he was giving it to his girlfriend after fixing up a toolshed...

theres no way zimmerman threw the first punch, he had a gun why would he engage in a fist fight? sounds like all he wanted to do was talk to martin because of all the burgularies. martin pulls the race card and gets heated and sucker punches zimmerman in the face.

if you were zimmerman and black youths were robbing houses constantly in your neighborhood, and you saw some kid who ran away from you when you wanted to talk (knowing that the last time you waited for cops they got away), you wouldnt suspect him of doing something illegal? i know zimmerman aint no cop or security, but martin escalated a simple encounter into a brawl.

tbh all that shit doesnt matter to me, if someone punches me in the face and then proceeds to be on top of me beating my ass with no end in sight, im gonna fucking shoot him. it was just unlucky the shot was fatal.

I object to this post.

First, what are you saying, that in that neighborhood, merely being black makes one a suspect?

Second, Zimmerman had no idea Martin was found with jewelry and a screwdriver. Are you suggesting Zimmerman's actions should be found acceptable after the fact depending on what we find inside the dead person's bookbag (or what may have been found there previously?) Are you suggesting that Zimmerman should take a shoot first ask questions later policy? If it turned out Martin was a straight-A student with no record, no priors, no school disciplinary actions, and nothing unusual in his cell phone, Zimmerman would plead guilty to Murder? Because that conclusion naturally follows from your apparent assertion that the existence of these negative aspects of Martin's life somehow mitigate the severity of what Zimmerman did. If I am misinterpreting or misrepresenting your post, please clarify for me.

Third - MARTIN escalated this into a brawl? What? Zimmerman had no authority to act as he did. And Martin has absolutely no legal requirement to stick around and be harassed by Zimmerman in any way. Zimmerman was not identifiable in any way, did not identify himself to Martin, was armed, and was a larger man than Martin by approximately 40 pounds, from what I understand. He has no legal right to try to detain, question, or chase Martin. Zimmerman made the first move and the last move, and none of this would have happened if he had just minded his business and done what he was told. So what if a couple kids got away last time? That's the way it goes sometimes.

We have something called courts and warrants and the fourth amendment. Cops cannot just go around detaining and harassing and questioning people just because statistically there is a nonzero chance they have been involved in a crime. ALL OF US have a statistically nonzero chance of having been involved in a crime. And if the police cannot act this way, some wannabe-cop neighborhood watchguy certainly cannot either. To put it another way, which is worse - a couple of kids getting away with a burglary because the cops did not arrive in time, or Trayvon Martin being killed because Zimmerman was tired of "these assholes always getting away" (Zimmerman's words). Let's not ignore the obvious fact that Zimmerman put his own life in danger as well for no good reason. Now, the point can be debated whether in fact his life WAS in danger, but obviously Zimmerman will claim so, since that is his sole defense for killing Martin.