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Graffiti

^We're going in circles here mate. Been through this argument before in this thread. Some people just don't like it. Others do. We've all got opinions and none of them are necessarily valid. (Except mine, this is the interwebs of course.)

(Not having a go at you DQ, just saying that most of the sides of the argument have already been covered)
 
I'm just answering the roll of the eyes at me like i said something stupid and unvalid thats all. I don't expect to change people's minds really. i understand why people don't like it *shrugs*
 
My comment was directed at you, DoofQueen. Not graffiti in general. Admittedly I was being a bit of a smartass and I apologise.

However I don't think it is a fair comment for you to say if someone doesn't like graffiti, then they don't get it.

I may not like certain types of art myself personally, but it doesn't mean I don't think it should be art or that I don't appreciate it.

I have a few friends who do graffiti. I have even been with them a few times. I admire the conditions they do their artwork under. I still don't really like it though.

I actually like alot of street art, like stencils etc.

Just wanted to clear that up.
 
DoctorShop said:
My comment was directed at you, DoofQueen. Not graffiti in general. Admittedly I was being a bit of a smartass and I apologise.

However I don't think it is a fair comment for you to say if someone doesn't like graffiti, then they don't get it.

I may not like certain types of art myself personally, but it doesn't mean I don't think it should be art or that I don't appreciate it.

I have a few friends who do graffiti. I have even been with them a few times. I admire the conditions they do their artwork under. I still don't really like it though.

I actually like alot of street art, like stencils etc.

Just wanted to clear that up.
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my opinion is very similar to yours drshop.
i can see why some people appreciate graff and call it art etc.
Just because i dont like it doesnt mean i dont get it.

I personally think that graffiti looks untidy and i dont really think a hell of a lot of thought goes into it.
But then again i dont really like some sculpture that is commissioned by councils either.

I just dont like it, and more the fact i dont like the people who do it generally as most of the time (not all) they are doing it on places that is not their property, and someone other than them have to pay to clean their "art" off.
 
Yeah my Dad who is a small business owner loves paying people and creating an industry to get fucking crap graffiti off his shop window.:p
or he has to do it himself and spend hours after work doing it because he cant afford to pay someone $200 to clean it.


(i see what you're saying, but i think doing graffiti so someone can clean it off and saying ultimately it is good for the economy is a cop out.)
 
I understand the frustration your dad must experience. I'm not trying to reduce or discredit that frustration. I was just joking. I don't do graffiti, and I doubt those who do it do so for any economic reason. In fact, as I stated before it's quite often done with an "anti-social" or "anti-establishment" agenda, and I find it funny that that agenda has created yet another form of business within our society, or "establishment". :P
 
i dunno, its something i guess i feel strongly about because i feel that vandlism has cost my family quite a bit of money, and i dont think people who do graffiti actually think that their actions are actually costing anyone money, and that really frustrates me more than anything -
People who only think their actions affect themselves and not others.
 
I would say the majority of them (especially those who do larger pieces) know all too well that cover-up/paint-over jobs can cost money. I've heard frustration expressed about how somebodies nice piece was painted over by a local council, and I'm sure they have an awareness of the cost involved. Whether or not they care about how their actions affect others is another question....not discounting the frustration experienced by your family or anyone else who has had to pay for graffiti removal, by the way.

Little kids with markers/cheap spray paint probably have no conception of the cost invovled, but then again, younger children/adolescents quite often have a limited conception of the reality of the world anyway.
 
kryalkastleE said:
i dunno, its something i guess i feel strongly about because i feel that vandlism has cost my family quite a bit of money, and i dont think people who do graffiti actually think that their actions are actually costing anyone money, and that really frustrates me more than anything -
People who only think their actions affect themselves and not others.
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i feel for your family, it's not fair that you should be financially burdened as a result of somebody else's actions which you have no control over. the way i've always looked at it though is that it only costs money when one chooses to get it removed. it seems silly to constantly fork out money to get it removed when you know that 2 days later theres going to be more graffiti there. why doesn't your family commission somebody to do some artwork there instead? its a much better idea, pay once for some artwork and never worry about it ever again.
 
Shouldn't it be the owner's perogative if they want to keep their walls clean? Instead of painting it over with 'art' so graff artists won't paint those walls??
 
psycosynthesis said:
I would say the majority of them (especially those who do larger pieces) know all too well that cover-up/paint-over jobs can cost money. I've heard frustration expressed about how somebodies nice piece was painted over by a local council, and I'm sure they have an awareness of the cost involved. Whether or not they care about how their actions affect others is another question....not discounting the frustration experienced by your family or anyone else who has had to pay for graffiti removal, by the way.

Little kids with markers/cheap spray paint probably have no conception of the cost invovled, but then again, younger children/adolescents quite often have a limited conception of the reality of the world anyway.
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what makes you think that its "little kids" that make up the graffiti subculture? theres people in there 30s and 40s that still paint. i can honestly say also that some writers i know are the most intelligent people i know. some are lawyers, dentists, doctors etc. to say that writers have no idea about the costs and social implications of graffiti is absurd. its that writers simply do not care.
 
I see what your saying Joe, but the graffiti is usually done to a whole set of shops on their front window, and as my dad is a real estate agent, his front window is where he needs his advertising space, obviously to show houses that are for sale, there isnt any room for artwork, nor is there any room for artwork on the shops in any of the street as their front windows/frontages are usually for their own business names etc.

i understand what you are saying, but i think that if someone chooses to have a plain shopfront, or even a painted/colored plain shop front, they shouldnt need to have an artwork taking up all the space. but i imagine even if there was artwork, vandals would still go over it with their stupid tags.
 
JoeBloggs said:
what makes you think that its "little kids" that make up the graffiti subculture? theres people in there 30s and 40s that still paint. i can honestly say also that some writers i know are the most intelligent people i know. some are lawyers, dentists, doctors etc. to say that writers have no idea about the costs and social implications of graffiti is absurd. its that writers simply do not care.
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Okay, maybe they do realise the social implications of what they are doing, but the fact they are still doign it, means they have absolutely no CARE for anybody else that they are implicating.
 
vurtomatic said:
Shouldn't it be the owner's perogative if they want to keep their walls clean? Instead of painting it over with 'art' so graff artists won't paint those walls??
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yes, it should be the owner's perogative if they want to keep their walls clean. however, holding onto this concept is not realistic, sooner or later somebody is going to see that nice clean wall and go for it, and it is going to cost more money. part of running any business is keeping expenditure down and profit up. constantly paying somebody again and again to paint the same wall for the same price is not a smart business move. making a once off payment to resolve the issue forever however, is.

aside from that, just because one is employing an aerosol artist for artwork doesn't necessarily mean it has to be graffiti art. the people that make money from it are compentant artists, capable of many different styles of art and design. some jobs are more or less signwriting on a wall, and if one is paying good money for the art, they have total control over the content of the artwork.
 
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kryalkastleE said:
I see what your saying Joe, but the graffiti is usually done to a whole set of shops on their front window, and as my dad is a real estate agent, his front window is where he needs his advertising space, obviously to show houses that are for sale, there isnt any room for artwork, nor is there any room for artwork on the shops in any of the street as their front windows/frontages are usually for their own business names etc.

i understand what you are saying, but i think that if someone chooses to have a plain shopfront, or even a painted/colored plain shop front, they shouldnt need to have an artwork taking up all the space. but i imagine even if there was artwork, vandals would still go over it with their stupid tags.
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fair enough.

what's worth clearing up though is the fact that 95% of the time that legal work is commissioned it will stay there untouched. if the artist is respected and/or feared, then nobody is going to go over it. sometimes people get stabbed for going over somebody elses art. the only instance in which i could see this happening is if somebody has personal problems with the artist and wants to damage their credibility. none of my commissioned walls have ever been touched.
 
I agree it's a good compromise, but ultimately, as an owner of a building, why should I feel like I'm being blackmailed into doing something I don't want to? And what's to stop people from writing over the commissioned pieces anyway?

Now consider this: If all building owners decide to take this route, all the walls with commissioned pieces will ultimately be treated as just another wall.
 
JoeBloggs said:
what makes you think that its "little kids" that make up the graffiti subculture? theres people in there 30s and 40s that still paint. i can honestly say also that some writers i know are the most intelligent people i know. some are lawyers, dentists, doctors etc. to say that writers have no idea about the costs and social implications of graffiti is absurd. its that writers simply do not care.
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Re-read my post mate. I'm saying that the majority of writers are mature/old enough to understand the economic repurcussions that their work can cause, and it's the younger kids that might not. That's why it's in two paragraphs. Paragraphs often indicate a change of topic or scope within writing :)
 
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