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Government and U.S. Armed Forces

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Evil,

You misunderstood a few things I said.

1. That's right... I said I don't like violence. The matter of killing any amount of people to ensure the safety and freedom of my family is completely seperate. Would I like it? No. Would I do it? In a heart beat.

2. When I mentioned those being killed by the terrorists in Iraq, I meant those who work for the police force or the new Army that are being killed. Those are the ones dying to help their families. Dying to make a change for the better.

3. Why do I call them barbarians??? What the hell else would you call someone who cuts off the head of a living person?
 
^^Umm, cultures vary. You wipe your ass with bleached trees, can I call you a barbarian because you don't use water instead?


WhinnersAreLosers said:
Thursday wrote the following:

sorry, but no. the military did not give me the right to free speech. i was born with it as one of my natural rights. free speech is not a privilege that is to be granted or denied, it is something that should necessarily be upheld by principle.

Hey retard, besides quoting a bunch of other people because you have no original thoughts of your own, take a close look at what you wrote. I could concede that no, the military did not give you the right to free speech. However, let me point this out. The vast majority of governing bodies in the world go to no lengths to protect the rights of it's citizens. Rather, they will do just about anything to stop basic rights. People in the world hate you and all other Americans because they envy us. They envy our potential, our opportunities and our freedoms. Since they live in places where these are denied to them, they feel the only way to equalize the difference is by tearing us down. How many hostile, foreign countries have you been to? Probably none, since you've already stated that your a coward and will preserve your little existence rather than your own rights. SO how do your rights get preserved? By rough men ready to do violence on your behalf. They don't know you, probably would hate you if they met you, but are willing to lay their life to protect your cowardly existence. Here's an another quote, from someone you might consider a great revolutionary:
"It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees."

You really are an arrogant, ignorant person.

Wow, people really are getting dumber in here.
 
David, are you retarded?

Yes, lets compare brutally murdering a person and wiping our ass. I'd say most of the civilised world would agree with me.
 
Originally posted by camo
A false dilemma... you're in for a rude awakening.

perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of the term?

Originally posted by camo
You're one of those cowardly people who would die pleading for your life on your knees. "Oh please God don't kill me.. I'll do anything!"

you don't know anything about me.

Originally posted by camo
Oh and "You're either with us or against us" is also a true statement. You can't stand on the fence line like your little frat boy friend Kerry who lost by doing just that.

it's only a true statement if you choose to believe it's true.

john kerry is no friend of mine.

Originally posted by camo
Come on over oh powerful internet bb mod and kick my ass. Who's hiding behind the safety and security of an anonymous online alter-ego now? "I'm gonna come over and kick your ass."

you missed the smiley. a simple attempt to inject a bit of levity into the discussion as you seemed to be getting a bit worked up. i fyou choose to be worked up, that's fine. sorry for trying to humanise this a little.

Originally posted by camo
Typical pussy sitting behind a computer screen mentality. What else have you got?

the respect of my peers? a little less anger than you, perhaps? less desire to hurt others, perhaps?

alasdair
 
David, you are correct. People are getting dumber. You are perfect example of people getting dumber. Thanks for spotlighting yourself.

dr seuss, I meant governments and sadly, most do not offer anywhere near the level of freedoms and protections our government does. Also, you cite the UN as your source for the living index in other countries. The UN is a corrupt, leftist, spineless and greedy orginization that should be disbanded. A new UN or League of Nations needs to be founded. Thats besides the subject in any case. You use a thread from this website to highlight why many in the world have nothing but apathy for the USA. I would trust a bag full of rattlesnakes not to bite me (if I thrust my hand inside) before trusting any so-called "facts" coming from any thread you endorse. It is very obvious that you people insulate yourself into a world fantasy, of "if we could all just get along....." mentality that has absolutely no relation to the real world. You sure must read alot, but do you experience alot? On hand experience? I highly doubt it. As for Saudi Arabia, they are nothing more than a temporary ally. Let me ask you, would you rather have us use up all of our natural resources and be even more dependent on foreign resources or use the resources of another country that would just as easily wipe us from the earth as take our money? I don't know about you, but I love America, everything I and every generation before me has worked for and will not easily sit by while others in the world wish to strip away my rights and accomplishments. You feel dialouge and understanding will solve the worlds problems. Wrong. Most Eastern cultures view dialouge and understanding and appeasement as weak, something to be exploited and taken for themselves. Who are we fighting in the War on Terror? Militant Islam, an ideology and significantly, an Eastern ideology. Appeasement will not work. They will see it as weakness and exploit it for everything they can. I think all the drugs you support (and/or take) have turned your brains to mush. There's a thing called the real world. Maybe you guys should use something called common sense (and sobriety), step away from your little fantasy land and enter the real world.
 
alasdairm said:
Originally posted by camo
A false dilemma... you're in for a rude awakening.

perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of the term?

Originally posted by camo
You're one of those cowardly people who would die pleading for your life on your knees. "Oh please God don't kill me.. I'll do anything!"

you don't know anything about me.

Originally posted by camo
Oh and "You're either with us or against us" is also a true statement. You can't stand on the fence line like your little frat boy friend Kerry who lost by doing just that.

it's only a true statement if you choose to believe it's true.

john kerry is no friend of mine.

Originally posted by camo
Come on over oh powerful internet bb mod and kick my ass. Who's hiding behind the safety and security of an anonymous online alter-ego now? "I'm gonna come over and kick your ass."

you missed the smiley. a simple attempt to inject a bit of levity into the discussion as you seemed to be getting a bit worked up. i fyou choose to be worked up, that's fine. sorry for trying to humanise this a little.

Originally posted by camo
Typical pussy sitting behind a computer screen mentality. What else have you got?

the respect of my peers? a little less anger than you, perhaps? less desire to hurt others, perhaps?

alasdair

So you have the respect of losers, dopers, loafers and the useless? Wow, now I see what I'm missing in life8)
 
WhinnersAreLosers said:


dr seuss, I meant governments and sadly, most do not offer anywhere near the level of freedoms and protections our government does.


would you care to offer an example?

which of these countries do you think is less 'free' or 'protected' than the USA?

1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Netherlands
6. Belgium
7. Iceland
8. United States
9. Japan
10. Ireland
11. Switzerland
12. United Kingdom
13. Finland
14. Austria
15. Luxembourg
16. France
17. Denmark
18. New Zealand
19. Germany
20. Spain
21. Italy
22. Israel
23. Hong Kong (SAR)
24. Greece
25. Singapore
26. Portugal
27. Slovenia
28. South Korea
29. Barbados
30. Cyprus

Also, you cite the UN as your source for the living index in other countries. The UN is a corrupt, leftist, spineless and greedy orginization that should be disbanded.

really?

which elements of the UN should be disbanded. do you mean UNPROFOR? or UNICEF?

which of the following bodies ought to be disbanded, and why?

Office of Legal Affairs (OLA)
Office of the Legal Counsel
General Legal Division
Codification Division
Division for Ocean Affairs and the Law of the Sea
International Trade Law Branch
Treaty Section
Secretariat of the Administrative Tribunal

Department of Political Affairs (DPA)
Security Council Affairs Division
Electoral Assistance Division
Office of the Under-Secretary-General Special Advisor on Cyprus
Office of the Under-Secretary-General Special Advisor on Africa

Department for Disarmament Affairs (DDA)
Weapons of Mass Destruction Branch (ask yourself: who got it right on weapons of mass destruction? our governments??? lol!)
Conventional Arms Branch
Monitoring, Database and Information Branch
Regional Activities

Department of Peace-keeping Operations (DPKO)
Office of Operations
Office of Logistics, Management and Mine Action Service

Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA)
Inter-Agency Standing Committee and Executive Committee on Humanitarian Affairs (IASC/ECHA)
Emergency Liaison Branch
Policy, Advocacy and Information Division
Geneva Office
International Strategy for Disaster Reduction (ISDR) Secretariat

Department of Economic and Social Affairs
Division for the Advancement of Women
Division for Social Policy and Development
Division for Sustainable Development
Statistics Division
Population Division
Division for Development Policy Analysis
Division for Public Economics and Public Administration
Office of the Special Coordinator for Africa and the Least Developed Countries
Division for Economic and Social Council Support and Coordination

of course, looking through the UN's history tells us some nasty things about our countries, as well - like the fact that the UK was happy to join in recognising Pol Pot's Cambodia, yet blocking aid distribution in its aftermath, or the fact that only two countries refused to recognise the UN convention on the Rights of the Child (iraq and america).

the UN does plenty to help the world. every. single. day. and it doesn't matter what you post - it will continue to do so.

The UN presence in East Timor played a central role in helping its people move through serious difficulties to their chosen goal of independence, which was attained in May 2002. Some peace-building activities, such as the UN’s supervision of the 1989 elections in Namibia, mine-clearance programmes in Mozambique and police training in Haiti, take place within the framework of a UN peacekeeping operation and may continue when the operation withdraws. Others are requested by governments – as in Cambodia, where the UN maintains a human rights office, or in Guatemala, where the UN is helping to implement peace agreements which affect virtually all aspects of national life.

UN peace-building in post-conflict situations often includes overseeing the collection and destruction of hundreds of thousands of weapons and facilitating the reintegration of former combatants into civil society. For example, in January 2002, the UN successfully completed its disarmament and demobilization programme in Sierra Leone and immediately began voter registration for presidential and parliamentary elections. In Kosovo, legislative elections in November 2001 led to the formation of a coalition government. During the same period, UN efforts in Afghanistan facilitated the establishment of an interim government and coordinated action by the UN system to rebuild that war-torn country. To that end, a UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) was set up in March 2002.

http://www.un.org/geninfo/ir/ch2/ch2.htm

did you see the recent elections in iraq? can you tell me who helped run those elections?

here are some other things the UN does. perhaps you would care to tell me why it should be disbanded again?

In addition to actions by the Security Council, the General Assembly and the Secretary-General following the 11 September attacks against the United States, many members of the UN system have increased their anti-terrorist activities. For example:

* International Atomic Energy Agency – To counter the threat of nuclear terrorism, IAEA is expanding its ability to review the security of nuclear facilities in its member States, identify necessary security upgrades, and organize contributions to carry out those upgrades. It is also actively involved in strengthening measures to prevent the theft of nuclear materials.

* Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons – OPCW, another part of the UN system, tracks the movement of chemicals that can be used to make such weapons, provides research and information on the potential use of chemical weapons and implements provisions of the Chemical Weapons Convention. In October 2001, it gathered experts on mobilizing and coordinating international responses to chemical terrorist attacks, to ensure the most up-to-date information and strategies were in place.

* The International Civil Aviation Organization – Within months of the 11 September attacks, 154 countries endorsed a new ICAO strategy to improve airline security, including a regime of regular mandatory audits to evaluate airport security.

* International Maritime Organization – An IMO working group has developed 12 proposals to improve maritime safety and security and thereby decrease the likelihood of maritime terrorism. They include mandatory automatic identification systems on all ships over 500 tonnes in international waters, as well as a requirement that such ships have security plans and security officers.

* Universal Postal Union – UPU drew the attention of other national postal services to the updated United States postal guidelines following that country’s experience of anthrax-by-mail terrorism in 2001. The UPU’s world postal security network offers advice and training on ways to ensure that dangerous materials are not transmitted by mail – as well as on eliminating the use of mail systems for drug trafficking, money laundering, fraud and child pornography.

* World Health Organization – WHO has identified key lessons for public health systems from the 2001 anthrax outbreaks and has issued guidance for States on how to respond to suspected anthrax infections. It has also made fact sheets on anthrax and other communicable diseases that could be used by bio-terrorists available on its website (http://www.who.int/csr/en/ ).

* Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention – The special database on terrorism developed by this UN body has become a key tool for international decision-makers since the 11 September attacks.

* International Labour Organization – ILO has organized government, employer and worker representatives to exchange information on ways to ease the social impact of the severe downturn in the tourism industry in the aftermath of the 11 September attacks.

* The UN played a crucial role in encouraging countries to support the 1997 Ottawa Convention – which provides for the total ban on the production, export and use of landmines – and continues to promote universal adherence to this treaty. Ratification of the treaty by more than 120 countries has led to reduced use of these weapons, markedly fewer victims, a dramatic drop in production, an almost complete halt in their trade, increased destruction of stockpiles, and increased funding for humanitarian action.

* As a result of this international momentum, even most States which are not parties to the treaties have ceased using, stockpiling, producing and transferring anti-personnel landmines. And more land is being demined than ever before – more than 185 million square metres worldwide in 2000.

* By 2001, the UN system was providing direct support for mine action in 30 countries. The UN not only performs mine clearance, but also trains deminers, conducts mine surveys, carries out mine-awareness education, and supports demining schools.

* The UN also works to improve medical and rehabilitation services for landmine victims. Such programmes have been carried out since 1989 in the killing fields of some of the most affected countries, including Afghanistan, Angola, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cambodia, Croatia, the Lao People's Democratic Republic, Mozambique, Rwanda and Yemen (see UN Demining Database at www.mineaction.org).


....


The UN does not have the capacity to impose peace by force. It is not a world government. It has no standing army, no military assets. It is not an international police force. The effectiveness of the UN depends on the political will of its Member States, which decide if, when and how the UN takes action to end conflicts.

The Security Council has special responsibility for maintaining international peace and security. The Council can exert diplomatic and political pressure on the parties to a conflict or provide a means for settling the dispute, including fact-finding or mediation missions. The General Assembly can bring the power of world opinion to bear on warring parties. Diplomatic efforts and initiatives by the Secretary-General can lead to negotiations and an end to fighting. Once a truce is in place, the Security Council can deploy a peacekeeping operation to help the parties carry out their agreements.

When persuasion fails, the Security Council can take stronger action, such as imposing economic sanctions or declaring a trade embargo. It may establish international tribunals to try persons accused of war crimes, as it has done in the cases of Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. On some occasions, the Council has authorized Member States to use "all necessary means", including force, to deal with armed conflict. Such enforcement actions – carried out under the control of participating States – have included actions to restore the sovereignty of Kuwait (1991); the legitimate government of Haiti (1994); peace and security in the Central African Republic (1997); and to end a campaign of violence in East Timor (1999) following a referendum on self-determination.

of course, they also work in development and humanitarianism; from the environment to AIDS to the sexual exploitation of children to the farmers who suffer under unfair trade conditions to the people affected by emergencies and natural disasters. but i guess all that's just corrupt and worthless too, huh?

and the people involved in the following:

* The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights raises concerns with governments, responds to human rights abuses and takes action to prevent violations.

* The UN Secretary-General and the High Commissioner confidentially voice human rights concerns with governments on various human rights situations and issues, including the treatment of prisoners and the commutation of death sentences.

* Under certain UN human rights treaties, individuals can appeal against States for alleged violations of their rights, subject to the fulfilment of certain preconditions, including the exhaustion of all domestic remedies.

* The UN Commission on Human Rights is one of the main intergovernmental bodies that holds public meetings on human rights violations wherever they occur in the world. It reviews human rights issues, including the situation in specific countries and territories.

* UN experts appointed by the Commission monitor and report on the human rights situation in specific countries, as well as on violations of all human rights in any part of the world – including civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights.

* The Office of the High Commissioner assists in all these efforts. It also helps governments fulfil their human rights responsibilities by providing technical assistance through such activities as the training of police and judges, as well as the provision of advice on legislation and national human rights institutions.

* Many peacekeeping operations now include mandates for protecting and promoting the human rights of the affected population.

* The United Nations promotes accountability for grave violations of international human rights and humanitarian law. Two UN International Tribunals, established to deal specifically with the crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia and in Rwanda, have helped bring war criminals to justice.

* In January 2002, the UN and the government of Sierra Leone established a Special Court to try persons for serious violations of international humanitarian and national law during that country’s decade-long civil war. The court is independent of the UN and the government. Unlike the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda tribunals, it is funded directly through voluntary contribution by Member States.

http://www.un.org/

do you believe the UN commission on the status of women should also be destroyed? should the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women be abandoned? the un development fund for women, working to help women in developing countries - should that also be abandoned?

as for helping in elections, well, that's obviously worthless. after all, it's not like the UN is doing anything in afghanistan. or mozambique. or guatemala. or el salvador. and we might as well let Milosevic go, instead of holding a trial, seeing as the UN is defunct.

let's see then: bad news for the UN's mission to the devastated DRC. the ivory coast should also be ignored. indigenous issues - no need for a forum there. the Un mission to examine human rights abuses in guatemala, that's a waste of time. same with haiti. the criminal tribunals for rwanda and the former yugoslavia, obviously 'worthless'. the UN administration in kosovo (remember that?) well they're obviously doing nothing. the conference against racial discrimination, see ya. world summit on sustainable development - nope. international schools monitoring - waste of time. unmovic are useless...

come on man. you're always talking about 'reality' and the 'real world' - well, read up & come back and play. otherwise you're about as far removed from reality as michael jackson.

You use a thread from this website to highlight why many in the world have nothing but apathy for the USA. I would trust a bag full of rattlesnakes not to bite me (if I thrust my hand inside) before trusting any so-called "facts" coming from any thread you endorse.

cool. i'm glad you've formulated such a well-developed opinion in your month on bluelight.

it's a shame for you - we have a lot of fantastic people here. people with amazing lives, jobs, qualifications, connections... there are doctors, lawyers, millionaires, army majors, intelligence specialists, decorated war heroes, journalists, authors, musicians, promoters, stock brokers... you're telling me you're unwilling to trust anything written on this site?

jesus - what a mistake that is. oh well, more fool you i guess.

(p.s. - if you find something you're unsure about in that thread, email me & i'll tell you the pages to look up in your local library :))

It is very obvious that you people insulate yourself into a world fantasy, of "if we could all just get along....." mentality that has absolutely no relation to the real world. You sure must read alot, but do you experience alot? On hand experience? I highly doubt it.

experience a lot of what?

i don't understand what you're saying. you do realise that it is entirely possible to read and do other things with your life, don't you? just like it's possible to be in the army and do other things with your life.

As for Saudi Arabia, they are nothing more than a temporary ally.

so are they WITH US or AGAINST US? i thought everything could be simply broken down into good/bad???

are you willing to accept that nothing really is that clear cut? if so, good on you :)

Let me ask you, would you rather have us use up all of our natural resources and be even more dependent on foreign resources or use the resources of another country that would just as easily wipe us from the earth as take our money?

i'd rather you use up all your natural resources than invade another country just to satisfy your desire for pointless, inefficient, shitty big-block detroit SUVs, if that's what you mean.

i mean really. what are you asking here? 8)

I don't know about you, but I love America, everything I and every generation before me has worked for and will not easily sit by while others in the world wish to strip away my rights and accomplishments.

i don't love america. but then again i'm not american :) i do love many americans, however.

You feel dialouge and understanding will solve the worlds problems. Wrong.

you feel violence and war will solve the world's problems. wrong. there are many examples of tensions which have been resolved without violence. can you give me a brief summary of the 2002 Kashmir war? or perhaps can you tell me about the Libyan invasion of 2003?

wait - you can't. because they didn't happen. largely because a lot of negotiating was done.

if you're going to make a vast blanket statement about how the world works be prepared to offer some examples - otherwise your point gets lost.

Most Eastern cultures view dialouge and understanding and appeasement as weak, something to be exploited and taken for themselves. Who are we fighting in the War on Terror? Militant Islam, an ideology and significantly, an Eastern ideology. Appeasement will not work. They will see it as weakness and exploit it for everything they can.

really.

tell me, what do you think of Libya?

I think all the drugs you support (and/or take) have turned your brains to mush. There's a thing called the real world. Maybe you guys should use something called common sense (and sobriety), step away from your little fantasy land and enter the real world.

which drugs do which of us take and or support? this is a website with over 50,000 members. i'm as sober as a judge, but i'd be happy to argue this with you under the influence of a chemical of your choice - it wouldn't affect the outcome ;)

there is a thing called the real world. most of us are busy living in it. your definition of common sense sounds pretty uncommon to me - it seems to be about hurling abuse and insults at people you don't know, refusing to listen to any opposing viewpoints, breaking everything down into 'good/bad' categories, pouring nationalist hatred on people who don't agree with you, then refusing to even consider anything from the 50,000+ minds on bluelight.

now remind me - who's living in the real world and who's using their common sense?


:)
 
WhinnersAreLosers said:
So you have the respect of losers, dopers, loafers and the useless? Wow, now I see what I'm missing in life8)

...

dr seuss said:
i'm glad you've formulated such a well-developed opinion in your month on bluelight.

it's a shame for you - we have a lot of fantastic people here. people with amazing lives, jobs, qualifications, connections... there are doctors, lawyers, millionaires, army majors, intelligence specialists, decorated war heroes, journalists, authors, musicians, promoters, stock brokers... you're telling me you're unwilling to trust anything written on this site?



it seems you have a lot to learn.
 
Geez man, it's painfully obvious you're posting under all those names. Either you're a very disturbed person and you really believe there is an "us" to your side of the argument, or you're just pathetic and need to create people to side with you. Either way, get a grip.

Can't you just pretend that "everyone" is actually at your house so you can post under the same name? We'll play along.

oh and Kul... these new people don't play "GI Joe" in their bathtub. We are pieces of trash that will be thrown away? That's fine. You'll be wishing you could dig us out of the trash can when enemy forces march on your hometown streets because you no longer have a force to keep them at bay. Who's going to protect your pansy ass then?



People like Mysticalis, Tathra, and SgT.

If you walked in on a stranger about to run a knife into one of your family members chest, what would you do?



Are you suggesting it would be possible to do a back flip across the room to my trusty gun rack and whip out something, load it, and blow this guy away below he moves his arm another foot?

This is NOT GI JOE AMERICAN HERO!!! My course of action would be to watch my family member die, what other option would I have if I opened a door seconds before someone stabbed them? Even if this was a hostage situation, I sure as hell wouldn't try to grab a weapon and go after them risking my family members life. Would you do that and scream, "Don't worry hunny! We'll all die if anyone is going to die!" as you ran towards him?

What was the point of this question?

Here is a question for you, a bomb is on a bus, if the bus goes below 55mph it will explode. If anyone gets on or off the bus, it will explode. What do you do?!

Is that what "you guys" do all day? Sit around quizzing each other on what kind of elite military tactics you would employ if you wern't a janitor in the Navy?


First, i'm a civilian who respects men like those NAVY janitors. You call him a janitor like its a bad thing. A janitor? Yes, but a janitor who volunteered to serve his nation.


Its nice to see nobody really answered my question. The fact that you can't just come out and say you would do whatever it takes in that situation to protect that person speaks volumes. I'm 19 and I could have answered that one. Do me a favor, tell your wife that you wouldn't do whatever you could do to save her life, because your too manly.

Your making a fool of yourself if you think myself, camo, and whinersarelosers are the same person. Not only does it violate the user agreement that was posted earlier, but I don't have the time to write a 10 page essay mostly containing copy/paste from websites.

That being said, i'm going to the gym. Hard work takes time...but I guess I could give 50%, get some steroids off a user here, then spend the remainder of my day smoking weed and eating chips.
 
Last edited:
SgTaIrBoRnE said:
yea, i was going to post something along the lines of, "they found me if i don't post soon after this".

Yeah,

We found you. Now it seems, you've disappeared just when the discussion is getting heated. You're entitled to your point of view just like everyone else on this BB. My question is by who's authority and what documentation allows you to get off signing your posts "Rangers Lead the Way?"

To the mods and other members posting, I don't necessarily agree with your points of view or his. I don't have too and vice versa. That's what is great about a democracy. You enjoy the freedoms to speak freely under the cloak of a free thinking society able to do exactly that. I for one, have a great deal more respect for someone who's actually "been there, done that", paid their dues and has an opposing opinion than a bunch of pin-headed, cackling hens calling others "a bunch of war mongers".

For the rest of you who think this is narrow minded thinking, when you got out of bed this morning, were you told what you could have for breakfast? Or was that dictated by what was left on the shelf of a government owned market? What you saw or listened to on the media outlets, was it regulated? Censored? Dictated by the government? Were you told where you have to work? What you had to do with your wages? Did you have to watch everything you said because you never knew who may overhear for fear of persecution? Do you enjoy a standard of living above the millions of the improverished constantly struggling, just to stay alive day to day, in third world conditions?

And when your little corner of the world you've gotten so use to is threatened, who's going to come forward and stand up to tyranny's iron fist? And who's going to stand in the shadows of those that go forward into harms way?

The list could endlessly go on. But the point being is a lot of you, not all, but a lot, take for granted, the freedoms you and I enjoy everyday. In retrospect and hindsight, I will enjoy the follow up to this post. You have a choice to be where you are at and what you do. Most people on this earth don't. If this doesn't sit well with you, play armchair quarterback from the comforts and confines of your dwelling. Just don't forget who made that possible.

Those dissenting opinions are also welcome. Don't forget why that is either.

And finally, to SgTaIrBoRnE, I'm calling you out on your credentials. If you are who you claim to be, can prove it and not just another fucking "poser", I will freely print an open apology on this BB. My guess is you can't and you won't. Others on this forum freely admit they've never served a day in the military and won't. I've got a lot more respect for them right now because their viewpoint holds water. Yours smells of a trumped up fabrication created to inflate your ego and provide legitimicy to your posts. Because if you are "who and what" you claim to be, credibilty and integrity is everything when it comes down to the validity of your opinions and points of view. It's easy to claim to be something your not behind your keyboard. (everyone in cyberspace is goodlooking and available)

You have an opened invitation to prove me wrong. Please feel free to do so.

 
Originally posted by WhinnersAreLosers
So you have the respect of losers, dopers, loafers and the useless?

i consider bluelight to be a small part of my peer group.

that said, seuss summed it up well. i think your statement does the bluelight community a great disservice. but if that's all you see, that's all you see.

you're a big whinner tonight

:)

alasdair
 
it's life; deal with it

Sgt. Airborne, is right. You do sign your life away to the government when you join the military. Everyone knows it. They own you, literally. And since his parents were signing the consent form they should[and probably did] explain the contractual obligation he committed himself too. That's life deal with it. We all make choices. And as a Paratrooper and and Infantyman, you damn well knew you would be killing other people in close quarters. Soldiers don't debate policy, they carry it out.

Using that logic, maybe we should use Heinlein's model and let only Soldiers, with honourable service vote and serve in office. It wouldn't change your rights and freedoms, unless you wanted to be a political slimeball. You would be entitled to free speach, bear arms, free enterprise. You just wouldn't have a say as to how you were represented at the state, federal, or civic level.

Now, current affairs. Al Qaeda attacked America. As a result they should be eradicated. No Guantanamo, no Hague, no secret asylum in Pakistan, Jordan, Syria, Saudi, or wherever else. Then America should return to it's isolationist stance it had before WW2.

No interference outside of it's sphere of influence. Let Israel deal with it's own problems. Let S.Korea deal with it's own issues. Let the Phillipines fend for itself. Don't waste aid on Africa, give it to the homeless, or those living below the Poverty line in your own country. As for natural resources, America has enough within it's borders. It doesn't need the oil from the ME. Really, it doesn't.

You see where I'm going with this don't you?

If America doesn't support the Zionist state, rob the ME of it's black gold, or interfere in islamic states in Africa. Then why will Islam extremeists hate the US.

Let the Kurds die. Let the Croat muslims be slaughtered, let the muslim africans starve to death. Really, by helping them, or being a "world policeman", just causes more problems than it solves.

If there is anyone out there who really wants to help, they can donate to any of the non-charitable organisations out there. Plastic surgeons from California, or New York can go join Doctor's Without Borders. Over paid professors, can go teach english to 3rd world nations.

America would be much better off. A switzerland, or northern european country on a much bigger scale.

All the extra money and resources that America spends outward could be turned in. How could that not be a good thing??

Rebuilding Germany and Japan was the worst thing America ever did.

And the creation of Israel..I'm not even gonna go there. That's just a powder keg in itself.

Oh, Canada is a constitutional monarchy. The Queen's control over this country is more of a courtesy than anything else.
 
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Side Note

I like the discussion so far, but I think you guys should be above the tired rhetoric by now. I can agree with some of the points on both sides of this argument, but I'm hoping you'll start including better references instead of random quotes. Try to be more objective in your reasoning.
 
I've read this entire thread and anyone that knows me knows I am usually the type of person that tries to look at both angles of a situation and pick which one I believe in after that.

after saying that, These men do speak a great deal of truth. Freedom is not free, men have always had to die to give us what we want.

Sure some of these men come off as assholes (WhinnersAreLosers expecially :) ) But I would be glad to call any of these men my brothers any day of the week. These men know what they were doing when they signed their contract. They didn't join for the bonus or the college money (even though I'm sure that helped somewhat), but they joined for all of us. They joined because they wanted to help us. They'd rather theirselves die than to ever see any of us die. And to me that makes these guys TRUE men. Until you've gone out of your way to help save someones life, and them not even acknowledge you for it, You can't begin to know how much that hurts someone. (yes this has happened to me before)

And personally, I think that is the ultimate sacrifice. Most of these guys are Infantry soldiers. A lot of people seem to think that guys in the Infantry are dumb, but that is not the case, actually a lot of the guys that I know that joined the Infantry (and a small few of them that went on to be Rangers) are FAR from dumb. They are actually very intelligent men. Honestly, if you have bullets flying at you, you have to be somewhat smart to know which direction they're coming from, and be able to set up so you can return fire in that direction.

Do most of these men want to fight, hell no. Most of the soldiers I know are some of the most peaceful and caring men you'll ever meet in your life. I mean they're willing to DIE for you, what else can a man ask for out of a friend. Hell, to me these men are more than just friends, they're close enough to be brothers.

I'm joining the military in a few months (active Army) and I would love to meet any of the these guys. Camo seems to be the most level headed of the ones posting. I'd be honored to meet him in person and shake his hand.


about Sgt. Airborne, are you a Ranger? I know you went airborne, so there is a chance you are/have gone to RIP and to Bt. training. If you're a Ranger I have even more respect for you, if not. It is kinda disrespectful to have RLTW as your signature. :\ And I can see where these guys are coming from.

but if you are a Ranger, I apologize.
 
Originally posted by dbighead2
Camo seems to be the most level headed of the ones posting.

Originally posted by camo
Yeah, you hippies...

Originally posted by camo
Who's going to protect your pansy ass then?

Originally posted by camo
You're too much of a sissy...

Originally posted by camo
Typical pussy...

Originally posted by camo
Before you think you're smarter than everyone else I'd suggest laying off all the crack, meth, marijuana and whatever other chemicals you put into yourself to have a good time....

Originally posted by camo
You're just a shitbag drug addict...

Originally posted by camo
Lay off the blotters and let me know when you've done something productive with your life...

Originally posted by camo
I'm glad a bunch of acid eating pill poppers think I'm an asshat....

Originally posted by dbighead2
Camo seems to be the most level headed of the ones posting.


alasdair
 
Did you even read half of your quotes?? A good majority of them have quotes with opposite meanings.

I can't think of a single one that does.

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

That is one of your quotes, and it's more of an opposite meaning than any of mine.

It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.

Getting back on topic, this particular war was not avoiding by us, it was started by us. Therefore, to put out the fire, we need to eliminate those that fan the flames, correct? Sounds good to me. Take your own advice. Were not working towards an end, this is only the beginning of the inferno because of people like you who would blindly believe what you're told.

I'm not stupid, I know a militatry is required. What I'm saying is, if it wasn't for people like you who believe war is an inevitability, it wouldn't be.

You guys said that if you join the Army you signed a contract and should do anything you're told. What if the Army and it's masters are the organization that is causing harm to America? You choose to continue to follow blindly.

I'll just crawl back into the hole I came from, where my rifle is lying to make sure you and your loved ones can live under the blanket of freedom that my comrads and I provide.... while you endeavor only to work hard to benefit yourself.

Honestly, I don't even believe you're in the military. If you are, I don't believe you've ever been in a single operation. Also, I came very close to joining the military. I stayed overnight at the hotel where you go through a physical and all that shit, right up to where I talked about what field I wanted to go into. Then do you know what I realized? I'm too smart to waste my ideas on an organization that will supress them. See, I happen to believe that I can do things for others without killing.

This has turned into an argument over freedom and the price of freedom, that is not the dicussion and most of us have forgotton that (myself included). You guys came in acting like we were spitting on the flag and saying America is horrible, the discussion was about the government and military and how it treats it's subordinates.

This is why I got so pissed off at you, because we were talking about people in high places using others for unjust actions, and you basically come in and say, "Oh god, quit bitching.. they gave you some money, now do whatever they tell you to do!". It's statements like that which I feel weaken this countries spirit.

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

Take your own advice.
 
alasdair, I stand corrected. some of his reasoning was true, but the insults just start unwanted and unneeded shit :\
 
Sigh......Why do so many stupid people walk the planet and post dumb things?

Oh, it must be the drugs.

So how does the USA rank 8th against itself?

The UN, a viable orginization? Well, I have a good friend who helped pick up the pieces of the UN compound in Iraq after it was blown up and those fucking cowardly, self centered appeasement mongers turned tail and left. I guess sacrificing for what you believe in is OK, as long as YOU don't get hurt. Just quit before it get's too hard and all is forgiven.

By the way, Australia doesn't allowed personally owned weapons, probably because dipshits like you people, who never got picked for kickball and are still mad at the mean, mean world, would end up shooting themselves.

You people will not listen to reason or common sense. You are the kind of people who have been conquered since recorded human time and whine about it rather than fight for it. It being life and liberty. Still, I'm proud to sit here, post on your site, listen to your mindless drivel (and quoting stupid quotes since the pack mentality you all share allows for no original thought) and say to myself "I helped secure a basic human right that would be stripped away by in an instant if these cowards had their way". A few members have already stated that they would much rather be alive than fight and possibly scarifice for freedoms they take for granted. Be glad you live in America, no, be grateful.
By the way, this current war could have easily been avoided if Bill Clinton took out Osama bin Laden 1997 and 1998 when he had the chance. It also could have been avoided if the UN would enfore it's own sanctions against Iraq. They never would because, well, they are cowards and belive appeasement is progress. Yes, the UN resolutions called for the use of force to remove Saddam Hussein if he violated any of the dozen or so UN resolutions. But they are spineless (not to mention that Kofi and Kojo Annan, along with the German, French and Russian governments, were making billions while helping support Saddam) and would rather rely on world police that is the U.S>.military (again, thank you Bill Clinton, for shafting the country with this). If there are any true war criminals and terrorist orginizations, it would be Bill Clinton and the UN.
 
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