Gibberings CXLVIII: Three cheers to breakcorefiend!

[BlindHelperMonkey]

mdb, To me manipulation means deceit and preying on weakness. Like, you can manipulate a sexual partner into sex, by pushing the right buttons at the right time. But that's pretty devious behaviour. On the other hand, if you pick up on the fact your partner is a bit frisky, there is no manipulation involved in flirting a bit, kissing tenderly and one thing leading to another. I don't think that is manipulation.

Why am I using sex as my example for manipulation? I hope I am too aware of my own failings to practise such behaviour these days.


And I don't think "refusing to please people" is some sort of high moral goal. Pleasing people is a natural human behaviour (one amongst many less noble). It does not have to be deceitful.

that is an arbitrary distinction. is the wife who cooks her husband a nice meal to get him to take her shopping devious? or the guy that slinks up behind his girl doing the dishes, knowing her neck is exceptionally sensitive, and kissing up and down it to put her in the mood - is he devious also?


absolutely ridiculous. i agree some things are wrong by consensus, but it is by nature a relative and subjective delineation

 

[knock]

I suspect there's a lot of 'grass roots' activists around attempting the same thing. Like you say though, such causes tend to need big name backing to really take off.

Yes, there definitely are grass roots activists trying to encourage change. I know some of them (like I know you people, on forums). "Occupy" was very imperfect (I could go into detail) but in many ways that was a phenomenon which spread in the grass roots, and had more effect in terms of action than Brand's comment has (yet?).

Certainly the way we have things set up at the moment it is much easier for a celeb to get a message out in the open than it is for you or me. We live in atomised communities. When was the last time you talked to your neighbours about the things that piss you off about society? I know I have never done so. We need to learn to speak to each other and then organise with each other to improve our lives.

Talking about this stuff at a grass roots level can be difficult because it's easy to mock people as "idealist" or "off their rocker". Brand is less likely to be dismissed in that way by his fans (though some will, I'm sure). So successful activists tend to rely on action rather than talk. When you see action having a positive effect, it's harder to dismiss.

that is an arbitrary distinction. is the wife who cooks her husband a nice meal to get him to take her shopping devious? or the guy that slinks up behind his girl doing the dishes, knowing her neck is exceptionally sensitive, and kissing up and down it to put her in the mood - is he devious also?


absolutely ridiculous. i agree some things are wrong by consensus, but it is by nature a relative and subjective delineation

Hold your horses. The wife who cooks her husband a nice meal to get him to take her shopping IS devious, if that really is her only goal. She devised a ruse to get her own ways. That is manipulation. However (and ignoring the gender stereotype in your post, when I lived with me ex I did most of the cooking! AND the fucking dishes.) the person who cooks in the house often does so because that's part of the unspoken (or even explicit) contract between two people sharing their lives. And taking her shopping is another part of that contract. So it might be seen simply as a playing out of the terms of their relationship, if both people are, to some extent, conscious of what those terms are, which tends to be the case.

And a girl has to be receptive to being turned on... people don't go around in a state of constant potential sexual arousal. Not grown-ups anyway. OK some of us do! But it's not by-and-large the case. So there is an opportunity in that scenario for the girl to say "oi not just now!" and the poor frustrated man will just have to bide his time

 

[mydrugbuddy]

The internet gives the non-celebrities a voice too though. I mean if you did it right you could spread your message through Forums and Twitter. If you got some big name twitter followers it could get really big. I might be talking shit as i dont even use twitter or really know how it works (dont bother yourself explaining it to me )

 

[knock]

The internet gives the non-celebrities a voice too though. I mean if you did it right you could spread your message through Forums and Twitter. If you got some big name twitter followers it could get really big. I might be talking shit as i dont even use twitter or really know how it works (dont bother yourself explaining it to me )

No you're quite right:

Example: https://twitter.com/aaronjohnpeters


And I go on about radical politics all the time in EADD (did you not notice?), it's a perk of being mod that I can't be infracted for it I like to think my ideas on this stuff are a bit better formed than Brand's, though.

Here's a blog post on a radical site (one of the best sites IMO) about the Brand interview. The comments are the most illuminating part though, as the blog post does not offer any critique of Brand's outpourings, and many of the comments are angry with the blogger for being "uncritically supportive" (which I personally didn't think was the case. You might recognise me in the comments section!)

 

[BlindHelperMonkey]

freedom of speech? LOL
if your particular brand of speech fits, perhaps


our speech is so unfree, nobody can even agree on what the ever expanding concept of racism is. i hear it used when applied to all manner of ridiculous things, nationalities and multi-ethnic religions being two of the favourites. all it serves is to dilute and denigrate the original, repugnant definition. which is undoubtedly dangerous in the long run, for those who require its full protection

 

[BlindHelperMonkey]

And a girl has to be receptive to being turned on... people don't go around in a state of constant potential sexual arousal. Not grown-ups anyway. OK some of us do! But it's not by-and-large the case. So there is an opportunity in that scenario for the girl to say "oi not just now!" and the poor frustrated man will just have to bide his time

you must just not have the touch




my ex would literally buckle if her neck was kissed at the same time as her tits were squeezed. obviously, i never saw her seething with rage. but quite a few times she was pissed off with me, unresponsive to being pulled for a hug/kiss etc. but hit those spots together, her body just overrode her mind. was amusing and eminently useful when she was tired from medschool and not in the mood. i realise this makes me a cunt by your definition, but hey - we knew that already didn't we

 

[mydrugbuddy]

freedom of speech? LOL

Absolutely. Well, perhaps relatively. Brand would be executed if he lived in Iran, imprisoned if he lived in Russia. In those terms we do have freedom of speech.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

No you're quite right:

Example: https://twitter.com/aaronjohnpeters


And I go on about radical politics all the time in EADD (did you not notice?), it's a perk of being mod that I can't be infracted for it I like to think my ideas on this stuff are a bit better formed than Brand's, though.

Here's a blog post on a radical site (one of the best sites IMO) about the Brand interview. The comments are the most illuminating part though, as the blog post does not offer any critique of Brand's outpourings, and many of the comments are angry with the blogger for being "uncritically supportive" (which I personally didn't think was the case. You might recognise me in the comments section!)

ive bookmarked that link, i'll check it out later. Yes i noticed your socialist leanings years ago.

 

[knock]

you must just not have the touch

haha yeah well if you've been in relationship for over 10 years the touch can start to become elusive :D

my ex would literally buckle if her neck was kissed at the same time as her tits were squeezed. obviously, i never saw her seething with rage. but quite a few times she was pissed off with me, unresponsive to being pulled for a hug/kiss etc. but hit those spots together, her body just overrode her mind. was amusing and eminently useful when she was tired from medschool and not in the mood. i realise this makes me a cunt by your definition, but hey - we knew that already didn't we

Yeah I'm not criticising that! Obviously her receptiveness and her unwillingness were in a certain balance, and the balance was in favour of getting smoochy. Bodies don't override minds. All the body's signals* are processed in the brain. No that was not manipulative. If she wasn't a bit receptive then she could well have told you to fuck off. I imagine you're still in that stage of your relationship where receptiveness is the rule and not the exception. Give it a few years and report back


* with some exceptions. But I don't think the kissed-neck signals are one of those exceptions. You probably have a good person to ask about that on the other hand, asking these questions might take all the fun out things


PS yeah my ex loved to get her neck kissed. She actually told me that within about two days of us getting together. So I took full advantage :D But there came a point late in our relationship where it stopped working, she'd pull away. We still see each other occasionally, and sometimes we seem to be getting closer again, perhaps to the point where I can try the neck trick and see how her response is fairing... thanks for reminding me

 

[BlindHelperMonkey]

lol knock. comfy relationships have their plus points too. knowing you won't be returning to an empty house, always having someone to cuddle up next to, etc



just bare in mind not all girls are spiritually ascended masters in terms of mind over body. but of course, i duly bow to your vastly greater knowledge on women fakers.... i mean fakirs

 

[knock]

Oh, it was rarely comfy we both had our own issues, and our relationship was never perfect, but when it was good it was great.

edit: sorry, I see you were posting about your ex too, so you're probably not going to be producing long-term data for this scientific investigation never say never though.

 

[Kronos]

mdb dont think anyones mentioned it yet, but if you go down the kratom route it rarely does much (ime) when you have a tolerance, but looking around if you feel the need to take some subbys after cause your still feeling rough theres a chance of getting precipitated wds from it so be careful

Anyone here got any exp with soma? never tried it before but hopefully will have some later this evening, muscle relaxants sound nice

 

[mydrugbuddy]

mdb dont think anyones mentioned it yet, but if you go down the kratom route it rarely does much (ime) when you have a tolerance, but looking around if you feel the need to take some subbys after cause your still feeling rough theres a chance of getting precipitated wds from it so be careful

Cheers, i was assuming that my tolerance would be quite low now since im down to 0.25 of bupe. Is that still too high a tolerance for Kratom to be of any use ?

 

[Kronos]

I think its more ever having a habit with 'proper' opis that stops you being able to appreciate kratom properly, i think last time i tried some id been detoxed for a week or 2 so pretty low tolerance and i felt (i think) nothing, many people swear by it though so i guess its luck of the draw

Also people have said that you can use tramadol on top of subs without any bad effects, anyone know if this is the case?

 

[Mental Kenny]

Depends how much you take, in all honesty I think the 5 grams previously suggested is way too low, I mean it's barely noticeable even with no tolerance whatsoever, I'd start with at least twice the amount.

 

[BlindHelperMonkey]

nope, got some with precipitated withdrawals though




knock - dont worry, i still have a few willing volunteers on that front. always willing to put the hard yards into the pursuit of science, me

 

[Sammy G]

Also people have said that you can use tramadol on top of subs without any bad effects, anyone know if this is the case?

I believe that's true. Never tried it myself but a lot of people seem to like the combo.

Cheers, i was assuming that my tolerance would be quite low now since im down to 0.25 of bupe. Is that still too high a tolerance for Kratom to be of any use ?

You should be thinking about dosing kratom only once you hit the worst of the buprenorphine w/d, by which time tolerance won't be such an issue and you'll be glad of any relief whatsoever. So I wouldn't worry too much about that right now.

 

[Kronos]

Was that aimed at me BHM? Fucking hope not , My booster pack of pharmaceuticals has arrived , fuck me its huge i feel like a kid at a candy store

 

[NightsEpiphany]

I think its more ever having a habit with 'proper' opis that stops you being able to appreciate kratom properly, i think last time i tried some id been detoxed for a week or 2 so pretty low tolerance and i felt (i think) nothing, many people swear by it though so i guess its luck of the draw

Also people have said that you can use tramadol on top of subs without any bad effects, anyone know if this is the case?

Its synthetic smack without the high no leave it alone imho.

Edit: just re red.. not sure about the subs combo that might be alright man yeah. If sam thinkso then yeah it must be. Go for it.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I believe that's true. Never tried it myself but a lot of people seem to like the combo.



You should be thinking about dosing kratom only once you hit the worst of the buprenorphine w/d, by which time tolerance won't be such an issue and you'll be glad of any relief whatsoever. So I wouldn't worry too much about that right now.

OK cheers. I tried Tramadol ontop of Bupe. There were no bad effects, but no good ones either. I think i took 3 of them about 45 minutes apart and didnt notice any effects other than feeling a bit spaced out. It might be because im also taking Mirtazapine, thats probably gonna interfere with Tramadol in some way, allthough not in such a dangerous way as an SSRI would.