Gibberings CXIX: In B4 close...

[parttime crackhead]

I completely disagree about the mixing on CDJs. I do agree about scratching though. Hip hop style DJing should be done on vinyl or, at a push, on DVS.

This is kind of my point about vinyl purists.

anyone might be able to beat match but could they mix with that level of skill could they fuck..

It takes the same level of skill to mix with CDJs (maybe just a tiny bit less as you have loop functions & easier ways to find the correct part of a track, eg hotcues over bits of tape on the record). Fair enough the same can be done with much less skill on a laptop. Good DJs will use the extra capability of a laptop to do things that aren't possible with vinyl or CDJs though.

The majority of the "big name" DJs I see play use laptops to some extent. Some just simply to hold the music while all mixing is done on CDJs or 1210s with timecode but plenty don't even touch CDJs or actual decks at all anymore. Slam are a perfect example of this. You won't see a CDJ or a turntable being touched by either of them during a set these days, it's not like they aren't capable of it though, they've just moved on. Practically none solely use vinyl (Sven Vath is the only person I can think of off the top of my head who purely uses vinyl).

 

[acieed_ed]

aye its progress i guess. not what im into though what does the future hold human dj's are becoming redundant will we be paying money to watch a hologram of a legendary dj do a set..if they were good i prob would.there was some gig recently featuring a hologram of tupac rapping was good apparently

@backroll
i totally agree with you about white labels and rare vinyls.
through up some links at some stage

 

[parttime crackhead]

The "pros" would disagree with you as well by the looks of things. With regard to "dance" music anyway. Here's an example. Top 10 DJs on RA's poll for last year (I know this is hardly ideal but the best I can come up with at the moment lol).

1. Seth Troxler - Serato.
2. Richie Hawtin - All laptop & controller, no turntables or CDJs. - http://youtu.be/sui24hHDZDI
3. Dixon - Mainly CDJs
4. Maceo Plex - Just a laptop & controller (I don't know if he always plays like that but I'd assume so)

NSFW:

5. Ben Klock - CDJs
6. Jamie Jones - Serato
7. Loco Dice - CDJs, controllers, laptop running Traktor with timecode vinyl & possibly real vinyl (everything basically)

NSFW:

8. Ricardo Villalobos - CDJs & real vinyl
9. Tale Of Us - Laptop but I dunno what else.
10. Maya Jane Coles - CDJs

The only person there even using vinyl at all without a laptop is Villalobos.

As I said, Slam also don't use CDJs or turntables at all (meaning they don't beatmatch). Neither does Magda, Dubfire & plenty others that I can't remember just now. I'm pretty sure they're all skilled DJs though.

Embrace the future

 

[acieed_ed]

i see fuckall of them are using vinyl..its obviously too old fashioned for them.
i remember when final scratch came out i believe thats timecode vinyl just putting off the inevitable switch to cdj's and now the move into laptops sets. at least with cdj's theres the semblence of djing but laptop sets just seem way over the line for me time to call it a day on the whole thing then.
i fail too see the point in paying money to see someone do somthing with a laptop in a club anyone could do with a laptop at home in their bedroom.
respect to slam though dont begrudge them that they are on the go forever.i have slam - positive education on vinyl is an absolute whopper tune from back in the day. quality

if thats the future clicking play on a laptop its back to the drawing board i think

 

[parttime crackhead]

You're missing the point entirely though. They don't just "click play". Just because they are using a laptop doesn't mean they are purely using it in the most basic way possible. Watch some of that Richie Hawtin set. Does it look like he's just clicked play? He's doing all sorts there, so much more than would be possible on vinyl. These guys aren't using this new technology so they can mix track 1 into track 2 with minimal effort (ie doing less than they used to do with vinyl) they are using it so they can do more than they used to do with vinyl.

These guys aren't popstars. They aren't getting paid to stand in a club press play & wave their hands about (Guetta style). They're, for the most part, very fucking good at what they do. Just because you don't understand the technology doesn't make it any less valid.

i fail too see the point in paying money to see someone do somthing with a laptop in a club anyone could do with a laptop at home in their bedroom.

What? But if you buy 2 turntables & a mixer as oppose to buying a laptop & some controllers then surely, by your logic, there's no point paying money to see someone play on vinyl because anyone could do that in their bedroom.

 

[mattnotrik]

Theres no difference really, if your just going out to watch someone mix and worrying about what they are using etc instead of actually enjoying the music and party etc then something wrong, them DJs that PT posted are actually talented, dont put them in the same frame as Swedish houe mafia, and all the other US EDM crap who, genuinely do just turn up with a pre mixed CD and press play (theres videos of them standing there jumping up and down arms raised with the decks clearly OFF, people are going there because they are following the hype and the name, and most are not interested at all in what goes on behind the decks, they just want to see THEM.

Ive been to a few Vinyl only parties last year, its not like any of them actually use vinyl as standard, more of a nostalgia thing, went to this one

and another with Grandmaster Flash and the cunt didnt even end turning up lol

 

[parttime crackhead]

I'm pretty sure someone recently won the DMCs using Traktor btw.

Matt gets it. What comes out the speakers is what matters, not what the DJs hands touch. The folk that use laptops without beatmatching do a lot more than just mix two records together anyway. Magda just uses an Allen & Heath mixer/controller linked to Traktor & she was probably the best DJ I saw last year. She was playing in Sub Club. Not the sort of place that would book a DJ who would turn up & "just click play".

 

[acieed_ed]

well i am not up to date with what they can actually do on their laptop regarding mixing or tweaking etc but there has been software out for years now to make things smoother and effects etc.
i guess i just prefer seeing a dj mixing two slices of vinyl on turntables than relying only laptops and fancy software kinda takes the cool part out of it for me.
but i have only ever heard a handful of laptop sets im not going to write them off just yet further research is required
i dont doubt those dj's u listed are talented. i guess im just a bit nostalgic for the old days with vinyl etc i started with decks in late 1993 im only just 34 lol
btw mattronic i love acid house would have liked that gig.
this convo makes me feel ancient might as well be rolling up to a nightclub on a penny farthing bike to use my ancient vinyls

 

[parttime crackhead]

well i am not up to date with what they can actually do on their laptop...

Which is why your "just click play" shout is nonsense. You don't even know what you're talking about. Sorry lol.

Watch that Hawtin set. I don't really see why it matters too much if he's got two big black discs in front of him or not. Dubfire's Boiler Room set is another good example of someone DJing with no decks.

 

[mattnotrik]

Dance trippin also has some good videos, mainly on the DJs and what they use nowadays.

Anyway, check Carl rocking the Space terrace, its not from long ago I think around 2006, got the whole set on my PC never gets old, this is just a 5 min portion. I envy partys like that with a bit of soul and vibe, a lot of sets these days are just cunts shuffling from side to side to ketted to even lift a leg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAliBWoKaUc %)

Dance trippin deleted the hour long version for some reason ;/

Dont know if you get on here but a lot of good sets....from different DJs

http://old.dancetrippin.tv/media-library/all

 

[acieed_ed]

i dissagree though that u think i dont know what im talking about thats bollox i have been beatmatching tunes on vinyl since 1993. been making my own tracks using scream tracker 3 since 1994 and that was old but very effective software so im not ignorant to what can be done on pc's/laptops with tunes.im not informed about what software is being used today but it sounds exciting like something i would like to get back into.
listening to that hawtin set not bad so far.

mattronic
thats what i have been on about all night carl cox was my fav dj in the early to mid 90's for not only what came out of the speakers but his technical skill at doing it.
its that combo that i admire

 

[backroll]

It's you



You're completely wrong lol. Expand on the "shortcut" bit. What do you mean? (other than sync functions that remove beatmatching*, I'll accept that point with regard to some laptop DJs) Let's see if you've got something resembling a point in there please.

*edit - even at that, do you genuinely see beatmatching as the major skill in DJing? Anyone can be taught to beatmatch quite easily as long as they can count to 4.

I haven't had much time for your remarks since you disbelieved my story about my friend smashing up a bookies after defrauding it heavily for months.
Bad mood or not I can't be bothered anymore with your arsey comments.
And for what's it worth DJing is about a lot more things than beatmatching, and it means a lot to me pal. I should know! I supported Dead Prez once. (but obviously that's another lie)

To be a good DJ you need to know the mood of the crowd and the mood of the night. You need to show skills such as beatmatching and some turntabilism. You need to be different, changing genres radically now and again. You need to play a good few songs per set that people know this endears them to you and creates an unbeatable atmosphere, you need to judge what to play after the guy or girl before and after. You need to have an excellent MC or at least have a good connection with the host that night. You need to be able to turn up and play seamlessly on equipment you are unfamiliar with, and do sound checks and make fucking sure that the tech guys know what they are doing. You need to go and buy a vestax handitrax and go crate-digging in every shop you see that has vinyl in it, whether that's oxfam, barnados or a car boot sale to find those rare bauties or just random spoken word or nursery rhymes on 10 inch. You need to know how to use the turntable as a musical instrument, and know how to play back to back with at least one other DJ, challenging each other with every tune. You need to have hundreds of tunes to play, instead of just rinsing a pre performed set of 30 that you have mastered in your bedroom. You Dj for the crowd not yourself, eg. you goal is to make them happy, not just play a perfect sounding dry set. This in turn makes you happy and gives you a buzz as good as sex, drugs and football. Standing on stage and playing your favourite bedroom tunes, of self discovered, unheard of tracks for an hour aint gonna make people tare the dance floor up. You need to sell out to a certain extent in that respect. You need to put on a show, you need to wow and you need to know how to drop and when to drop. AND ALWAYS BRING SPARE NEEDLES AND A MIXER. People didn't need drugs at my events, and neither did I. I could go on but I got work tomorrow. Not DJing sadly! Keep ya macintosh amd your snazzy programmes and illegal download all you want. Or better still teach yourself to produce (which I think you do).
And beatmatching ain't hard you're right, but beatmatching Hip Hop? Different kettle of fish. And beatmatching different genres...now you're talking! Love it. And beatmatching is only one step up from mixing really, which is the essence of this thing. That being said dont be afraid of silences either. Nigaz know

Can we just go back to ignoring each other now please?

 

[acieed_ed]

@backroll qft

post of the night ^^

now i got to bail to bed too work in 5 hours.

 

[acieed_ed]

@pontifex

a rather informed opinion too. you and backroll have put accross my arguement better than i did 100% agree with you

 

[parttime crackhead]

i dissagree though that u think i dont know what im talking about thats bollox i have been beatmatching tunes on vinyl since 1993. been making my own tracks using scream tracker 3 since 1994 and that was old but very effective software so im not ignorant to what can be done on pc's/laptops with tunes.im not informed about what software is being used today but it sounds exciting like something i would like to get back into.
listening to that hawtin set not bad so far.

Sorry man, I didn't mean in general. I only meant specifically about DJs who are using laptops over vinyls or CDs. I only said it because you said it in the previous post.

I haven't had much time for your remarks since you disbelieved my story about my friend smashing up a bookies after defrauding it heavily for months.
Bad mood or not I can't be bothered anymore with your arsey comments.

Hahaha, OK then. Maybe you should lay off the crack a bit man. As far as I was concerned I was having a reasonable discussion about the merits of different styles of DJing. FWIW I'd forgot that was even you & I disbelieved that story because SHM explained exactly why it wasn't true. Nice to see that you're not still in a wee huff about it though

And for what's it worth DJing is about a lot more things than beatmatching, and it means a lot to me pal. I should know! I supported Dead Prez once. (but obviously that's another lie)

To be a good DJ you need to know the mood of the crowd and the mood of the night. You need to show skills such as beatmatching and some turntabilism. You need to be different, changing genres radically now and again. You need to play a good few songs per set that people know this endears them to you and creates an unbeatable atmosphere, you need to judge what to play after the guy or girl before and after. You need to have an excellent MC or at least have a good connection with the host that night. You need to be able to turn up and play seamlessly on equipment you are unfamiliar with. You need to know how to use the turntable as a musical instrument, and know how to play back to back with at least one other DJ, challenging each other with every tune. You need to have hundreds of tunes to play, instead of just rinsing a pre performed set of 30 that you have mastered in your bedroom. You Dj for the crowd not yourself, eg. you goal is to make them happy, not just play a perfect sounding dry set. This in turn makes you happy and gives you a buzz as good as sex, drugs and football. Standing on stage and playing your favourite bedroom tunes, of self discovered, unheard of tracks for an hour aint gonna make people tare the dance floor up. You need to sell out to a certain extent in that respect. You need to put on a show, you need to wow and you need to know how to drop and when to drop. AND ALWAYS BRING SPARE NEEDLES AND A MIXER. People didn't need drugs at my events, and neither did I. I could go on but I got work tomorrow. Not DJing sadly!

And beatmatching ain't hard you're right but beatmatching Hip Hop? Different kettle of fish. And beatmatching different genres...now you're talking! Love it.

Shall we go back to ignoring each other now??

Take out the very few parts of that that are specific to vinyl (eg spare needles) & you've basically just explained why the equipment a DJ uses isn't the important part. It's the skill of the DJ that's important (& I don't mean the beatmatching skill).

But doesn't that point of view defend cunts who do indeed "just click & play"?

Don't give two shits about this discussion btw, just bored. Anyway I have several mates who DJ/produce, only one of them uses just vinyl and while the top world DJs may be using the software to go "beyond" what'd be capable with just vinyl and certainly have plenty of skill, the reality is that the vast majority of average DJs (I mean resident DJs in normal clubs) use the software to make their jobs a hell of a lot easier. Watching a vinyl DJ up-close at work is far more fascinating than watching some cunt using VirtuaDJ or Traktor, and in the majority of cases there is far more skill involved in doing the former, but far more cunts doing the latter. Just my opinion...

Aye you're right, that point was a bit too short. I get what you mean from that, it wasn't what I meant though. There's no excuse for pre-mixed sets.

With regards to the rest of your post, you're right as well. Tbh, I wasn't really trying to defend people who do that (people like myself, I use Traktor & not to do anything wild, simply because it's easier) my whole point though was just really to acieed_ed & his complete dismissal of all laptop DJs (& CDJs for a minute). I was trying to explain that not all laptop DJs are automatically less skilled than vinyl DJs (in fact, I would argue that a lot are more skilled. Most "old school" DJs couldn't even plug Hawtin's equipment in, never mind make it play good music) & that most "pro" DJs who use laptops do a lot more than he thinks. He seems to have changed his opinion slightly, or he's at least open to changing his opinion, so I feel I had a point & must have put it across kind of OK. Otherwise he'd have taken one look at that Hawtin video & went "Rubbish, all he does is click play. There's no skill involved".

Anyway crackhead you are being a moody cunt lol.

How am I? I thought I was having a perfectly reasonable discussion about things. Simply trying to explain stuff. I'm not shouting "FUCK YOU YA CLOWN!" or anything, am I? I'm genuinely not being moody or arsey or whatever, just having a conversation.

 

[acieed_ed]

i am open to change and am interested in looking into the latest software djs are using.
but not at 4.30am lol tm.
gtg bed work at 9 :-X

 

[mattnotrik]

^ Not really, I feel unfair to crackhead because he clearly knows his shit and I see his point of view, but the reality is most cunts don't put the effort in when DJing because the software *can* do it all for you. And that goes for the toppity-top pros too. Carl Cox is notorious for getting too fucked during a set and having back-up pre-mixed sets (a very good friend of mine is a high-end DJ agency owner in Berlin, I'm not talking out of my arse).

Anyway crackhead you are being a moody cunt lol.



In other news, had my phone on silent, wifey was out doing a model casting (these things normally take 4 hours) so I had 4/5 lines of K racked out to fight the boredom. Doing half of each one every 20 minutes, probably have about 80mg in me when I check my phone just in case, lo and behold I see a 30 minute old text from my wife saying she got the job and is heading back home, meaning she'd be here in minutes. Had to put everything away very, very quickly. Fuck me that was a close call. She would NOT have been pleased at seeing me K-holing at 11 in the morning...

Could be worse you could have just dropped a fucking lasagne on the kitchen floor, not only having to clean up the wet mess, its also mixed with the glass tray that it was in that smashed, also now im fucking starving. Was considering leaving it there fora bit, sort of brushed it up making a stinking mess but the shits everywhere, maybe one for the morning.

Anyway just from what it seems carl cox always seemed like hes straight cut every time I see him, or hes being interviewed or whatever, also a man that gets on it and plays the amount of sets that he does, jumping around for hours on end surely cant stay at that weight, unless you mean just boozed up.

Anyway fucking woke up at 10 today so its still very early, trying not to get into the routine of benzos for sleep but my pattern is completely fucked now, yesterday was doing working till 8am, then went to Actual work at 11a, finished at 8 then drove straight into uni and was sat in the 24 hour uni library (probably the most depressing place ive ever been too, a fucking library that stays open almost all year and never closes?? was doing work till about 5am with my headphones in, didnt even clock 2 Nigerians asleep on row behind me, drove home, didnt even have time to go bed straight back to uni for a presentation, had a few xanax and vallies to calm the nerves and ended up not even being able to remember simple things like yeah the walls attached to that er thing that opens, with the wooden panel thing (a door?)with my eyes pretty much closed, thank fuck that weekends over though, Anyone else as bored as I am can read that.

 

[backroll]

I love the way you still maintain I was lying! Ha. Now please fuck off you weirdo. God knows what music you listen to. In fact I don't even want to fucking know.

Ignore button, ahh my good friend!

And don't you dare comment on my drug taking. I will spend my hard earned money on what the fuck I want, and I got a kid coming in 2 months so I'm just having a wee bit of fun before I have the greatest responsibility a man can have. Go and do the same mate, might get you off the internet playing Mr. know it all.

I started my music collection and dj career some 12 years ago now (quite late) and for half that time I was fucking skint and a fucking smack head (never ever a crackhead though) and how much of it did I sell to buy drugs?? FUCK ALL. Now that's djing. Good night and jog on.

Sorry for this public argument everyone else, I know it's pathetic rising to shitey bait like that.
But love and passion are mightier than the troll.

 

[backroll]

Could be worse you could have just dropped a fucking lasagne on the kitchen floor, not only having to clean up the wet mess, its also mixed with the glass tray that it was in that smashed, also now im fucking starving. Was considering leaving it there fora bit, sort of brushed it up making a stinking mess but the shits everywhere, maybe one for the morning.

Anyway just from what it seems carl cox always seemed like hes straight cut every time I see him, or hes being interviewed or whatever, also a man that gets on it and plays the amount of sets that he does, jumping around for hours on end surely cant stay at that weight, unless you mean just boozed up.

Anyway fucking woke up at 10 today so its still very early, trying not to get into the routine of benzos for sleep but my pattern is completely fucked now, yesterday was doing working till 8am, then went to Actual work at 11a, finished at 8 then drove straight into uni and was sat in the 24 hour uni library (probably the most depressing place ive ever been too, a fucking library that stays open almost all year and never closes?? was doing work till about 5am with my headphones in, didnt even clock 2 Nigerians asleep on row behind me, drove home, didnt even have time to go bed straight back to uni for a presentation, had a few xanax and vallies to calm the nerves and ended up not even being able to remember simple things like yeah the walls attached to that er thing that opens, with the wooden panel thing (a door?)with my eyes pretty much closed, thank fuck that weekends over though, Anyone else as bored as I am can read that.

Dropping food when you have just finished cooking it is so painful. 50% of the time I just scrape it up and eat it the other half I kick it around the room and destroy parts of the kitchen. The anger management is working though! Would have been worse in previous years!

 

[mattnotrik]

Yeah I decided to scrape the top parts off the floor that hadnt actually touched the ground, the fucker took 45 minutes to cook im not making anything else. The rest had all dog hair in it, 99% of dropping a glass is anger though that it takes fucking ages to clear up, seems as I walk bare foot everywhere mogely style, other 1% is actually meh ive just destroyed a glass I might need.