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GHB vs GBL

As I said, it could be that it exerts an effect on the endocrine system -hormones - at high doses (although I've seen nothing to back that up in any papers - just thinking aloud), or alternatively it may be another drug administered at the same time that's responsible. Is the low potassium level info from lab results or just an interpretation of the symptoms you were having?

In all honesty, eating a diet high in salt will effectively cause potassium depletion as what's important is the ratio of potassium ions to sodium ions in blood plasma. There are also lots of 'everyday' substances that can cause alterations in plasma potassium levels (licquorice containing sweets, eaten in large quantities can cause the same thing due to the action of one of the compounds it contains - glycorizzic acid (sp?))
 
I think it is glycorrhizin (again, sp?) that causes K+ depletion, deglychorized liquorice is available as a preperation for people that normal liquorice isn't suitable for, for that reason.
 
GBL can be dangerous if the PH is off: Chemists who accidently used plastic instead of glass may have had the oppertunity to see their plastic equipment melt. GBL is converted to GHB by the liver causing strain on that organ. There have been research on GBL toxicity and irreversible organ damage has been proved.


http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/borametz.html


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11813809


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11339620


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11174256


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10077458


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3109925
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Got this from another board, posted by a Mod.
Maybe someone can take a look at this? F&B maybe?

I really gotta start answerin these 'GBL danger' questions considering my history with the substance so far.
 
DjTaZZ said:
GBL abuse is way worse than GHB abuse. Not sure what the hell these moderators are smoking. But yes, GBL does cause a decrease in potassium levels, and GBL is a big no-no. NaGHB is much safer, and much less addicting and non-toxic compared to GBL.
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Even though this statement has no data or studies to back it up I have to agree.

After years & years & a whole lot of struggles wit these substances there is NO QUESTION in my mind that this is a valid statement.

I have used GHB for years straight and had no problem EVER quitting, Sweaty hands and a little uncomfortableness but nothing that terrible.

I once got arrested on false charged in the throws of a 6+month GBL binge and I had full blown seizures, an enlarged heart, a week in ICU foot cuffed to the bed with an officer by my bed side at all times, full blown hallucinations, ALMOST had quite a few heart attacks from extreme hypertension.

GBL is not a toy or something to play around with and to everyone taking 10+grams of NaGHB and having NO EFFECTS.....whatever.....and 6mls of GBL rectally, OUCH! I can't walk or smoke a cigarette or talk after 6 mls orally....you fucking guys are amazing8(
 
If you don't feel anything off 10 grams of NaGHB, then you obviously must have really shitty GHB, or not GHB at all. That's complete bullshit.

Badjessejames, thanks for putting it straight for some of these people. Been trying to get the facts straight on this page for many months.
 
Still nobody has commented on 1,4-butanediol. Probably best not to mess with it or people will start thinking it's safe to drink all types of alcohol.
 
Even though this statement has no data or studies to back it up I have to agree.
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I could say the same thing about the moon being made of green cheese. The ONLY difference between GHB & GBL is the rate at which the plasma level of GHB increases after a dose. That's where ALL your extra side effects come from - once it gets into your blood, GBL has a very short half life before it becomes GHB (it never reaches a high enough plasma level to exhibit toxicity except at doses where the subsequent plasma level of GHB would be toxic)

GBL can be dangerous if the PH is off: Chemists who accidently used plastic instead of glass may have had the oppertunity to see their plastic equipment melt. GBL is converted to GHB by the liver causing strain on that organ. There have been research on GBL toxicity and irreversible organ damage has been proved.
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Utter bollocks... GBL does not have a pH, eother on its own or in soln. because it does not alter the concentration of hydrogen ions. GBL is NOT converted to GHB in the liver, it happens in the blood due to the action of plasma pseudoesterases (so no 'strain' is placed on the organ). Any toxicity associated with GBL is due to GHB. Only the first link works and it only talks about 1,4-butanediol (1,4-BDO, which is metabolized in the liver) - it's 1,4-BDO that all the comments in the above statement apply to.

Before people post all these scare stories, it'd be good if they knew which fucking compound they are talking about. The comment about imparing liver damage applies to 1,4-BDO not GBL.

I have used GHB for years straight and had no problem EVER quitting, Sweaty hands and a little uncomfortableness but nothing that terrible.

I once got arrested on false charged in the throws of a 6+month GBL binge and I had full blown seizures, an enlarged heart, a week in ICU foot cuffed to the bed with an officer by my bed side at all times, full blown hallucinations
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Taking any other drugs? The GBL/GHB issue is purely due to the rate of increase of plasma levels after a dose. If you want a comparison, it's like the difference between an alcoholic who uses beer compared with one who uses spirits. Because spirits can cause a much more rapid rise in blood alcohol levels, they're more dangerous and have more side effects, but they're due to the same drug.
 
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fastandbulbous said:
Before people post all these scare stories, it'd be good if they knew which fucking compound they are talking about. The comment about imparing liver damage applies to 1,4-BDO not GBL.
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I hope that wasn't directed at me. I strongly beleive that GBL is non-toxic and only have studies to back that side of the debate up. I only quoted that message becasue it came from a respected member on a respected board.

To your knowledge, what would you consider the cons of GBL? I only drink occasinally and smoke weed occasionally, but I use GBL quite extensively. I have done plenty of research and used GBL for a long time and know how to use it appropirately. I have taken some risks, but all in all I have never once had any problem associated with G even while using quite a lot of it for extensive periods of time. The only problems I have had would be the following:
-I used to get head rushes in the morning for a couple hours when I stood up fast when I used to take 2ml doses and mixed with coke. Doesn't happen anymore now that my doses range from 1.5-18 and I mix it with gatorade.
-Feelings of slight anxiety in between doses next day upon awakening, but nothing that wasn't completely manageable. And again, doesnt seem to happen when lower doses are used.
-Body parts used to fall asleep quite regularly, but again it hasn't seemed to happen since i stopped mixing it with coke.
-Night sweats very rarely happned, and usually happen for a few nights in a row. I still havent been able to determine the casue of this.

Another thing I found weird is that my tolerance never goes up, ever. But alot of people seem to have problems with that.

Lately, becasue of a decent source, I have upped my intake to about 20mls a day. I hope to stop this habit and get back to a resonable amount, but this is the cause of my reoccuring interest in searching for negative impacts of GBL usage.

Having said all that, I do however find it peculiar to read posts all over the internet bashing GBL for withdrawal isuues, people ending up in the hospital and such. I have taken many risks involving alcohol and so on, and seen many people do MUCH crazier things with GBL(ridiculous dosages, many drug mixtures including alot of benzos)and never seen any consequences. Its as if these people have never even taken the drug before.
 
What would you make of my current situation F and B?
There aren't to many people around to ask such things. . .
 
GammaGuru said:
I used to get head rushes in the morning for a couple hours when I stood up fast when I used to take 2ml doses and mixed with coke.
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Do you mean Coca-cola or cocaine? :)
 
To your knowledge, what would you consider the cons of GBL?
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What would you make of my current situation F and B?
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Do you mean the cons of GBL when compared with GHB? If that's the case then there's only one - taking GBL causes a faster rise in plasma levels of GHB than actually taking GHB does. Because of that, you're more likely to experience the side effects of GHB (in the past I've used the analogy of snorting vs IV amphetamine. IV causes a much more rapid increase in plasma levels compared with snorting - so more noticable side effects - but they are the same side effects because they;re the same drug) such as nausea/vomiting. Other than that they are effectively the same drug.

If you mean the cons of using GBL( therefore by implication GHB) then you're looking at the cons of using any CNS depressant for recreational purposes - psychological dependance, possibility of accidents & the possibility of dying (although these seem a lot less for GBL/GHB than for most other CNS depressants). Got to admit that 20ml a day does sound like a lot (to me), but then again I maybe use 1-1.5ml a couple of times a week (my weakness when it comes to drugs are amphetamines).

Those links above, but working:
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Cheers for that - still they say nothing about GBL being worse than GHB in terms of things like toxicity etc (because it's the same drug - one even calls GBL a 'prodrug' indicating that it's inactive by itself & only becomes effective after conversion to GHB).


Badjessejames, thanks for putting it straight for some of these people. Been trying to get the facts straight on this page for many months.
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You mean agreeing with you? Nothing was definitively 'put straight'; even he admits that there's no proof in what he believes

Even though this statement has no data or studies to back it up I have to agree
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On the other hand, there's plenty of data that shows that GBL & GHB can be effectively treated as being the same as they exert their effects through the same active drug
 
fastandbulbous said:
If you mean the cons of using GBL( therefore by implication GHB) then you're looking at the cons of using any CNS depressant for recreational purposes - psychological dependance, possibility of accidents & the possibility of dying (although these seem a lot less for GBL/GHB than for most other CNS depressants). Got to admit that 20ml a day does sound like a lot (to me), but then again I maybe use 1-1.5ml a couple of times a week (my weakness when it comes to drugs are amphetamines).
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This is what i meant.
What do you mean, possibility of dying. Seems odd you would even mention this. I wouldn't even consider it possible if you know hot to use it appropiately. Which I think is proven in my case. Maybe I'm wrong?

Also, when you say 20mls sounds like alot. Do you mean this in any regards to actual physical side effects? or just lifestyle impairement so to sepak.
If there are no proven long term side effects, then basically 20mls taken temporarily shouldnt be anything to worry about. I am never feeling unhealthy and it does nothing to impair my daily schedule, ie going to school, the gym and leading a perfectly normal social life...
I appreciate your thoughts on this...
 
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