It really depends on the person, when I ran my last cycle I don't think there was a period where I thought I wasn't recovered already, I didn't feel any different and to this day havnt felt as though my natty test was supressed. It really depends on the person though with a good proper pct you should be fine and recover without a problem nolva, clomid and hcg is a decent pct though I don't think the hcg is nessecery.
Your gonna shut your boys down anyway, so why not make it worthwhile? I don't see a 4 week difference in length of cycle making much of a difference in recovery times though again this can depend on the person. Person A could do 8 weeks and never recover fully. Person B could run 20 weeks and be recovered in a matter of weeks.
The only way to keep an eye on your hormone levels properly is to get blood work done though, which I never have.
Hey nolys regards PCT..... I've a few thoughts I'd like to offer:
I'm not really a fan of using SERMS at all. If one was to use them, multiple studies suggest that 20mg/day is the best dosage to boost testosterone production with minimal side effects, this is the dosage pretty much every study published has used. There doesn't appear to be any benefit in going above that unless maybe you are doing a heavy aromatizable cycle. Even then you're better off tapering off everything.
When it comes to pharmacology, more is not necessarily better.
As for hCG, I don't understand why anyone would want to create another level of suppression in their HPTA? There is really no use for hCG, it desensitizes leydig cells in your testes to Leutinizing hormone so that when you eventually cease using hCG it takes a while for your testes to become sensitive to your own body's natural LH, thus prolonging your recovery. The use of hCG in males is limited to increasing fertility in HRT such that guys have enough viable sperm for their partners to conceive. When you are "shut down" your testes actually become more sensitive to LH due to receptor up-regulation. All that hCG will do is prolong your recovery.
I'd rather taper off and for this reason I wouldn't bother with SERMS as aromatase inhibitors like anastrazole are a better accompaniment to this protocol. Adding more PCT drugs into the mix just means more poly-pharmacy and more side effects.
With regard to hCG, receptor down regulation is just a reality for receptor mediated drug therapy. While the literature on this particular topic is scarce I have seen one showing the effects in humans as well as rats, albeit the human study was with large dosages greater than 1000iu. Regardless, while you may be able to safely administer therapeutic doses of hCG without inducing primary hypogonadism, why would you? LH is not the problem when it comes to coming off cycle, LH concentrations rise simultaneously with a fall in serum androgen levels and it is a myth that all exogenous testosterone must clear your system before your HPTA restarts. Your body cannot tell the difference between endogenous and exogenous testosterone.
So if hCG mimics LH yet serum LH rises with falling androgen concentrations anyway, whats the point in administering it? Having said that it is important to note that when I say androgens I mean testosterone. Other AAS which have different binding affinities for the androgen receptor may still be suppressing LH production in spite of negligible levels of circulating testosterone. For this reason I have seen it been recommended that a low dose test bridge (100mg/ week) be used before the taper in order to allow time for other AAS to clear your system. The bridge should be equal to at least 4x the longest half life of any co-administered androgens/anabolics.
Your brain senses the amount of sex hormones in your blood and adjusts the secretion of LH accordingly. Its doing this all the time. It doesn't matter whether its secreted from your testes or injected into the body, testosterone is testosterone. Your brain only senses how much is in your blood not where it came from.
You don't really have to worry about permanent shut down with normal cycle lengths. Studies where guys have been administered 600mg of test for 6 months show that LH production still resumes as normal.
Regarding a Taper protocol: Depends on ester, but for test E:
Weeks 1-10: 375mg test/week
Week 11-12: 100mg
Week 13: 75mg
Week 14: 50mg
If you have to use an AI use a conservative dose eg. arimidex .125-.25mg/day and continue till week 16. I would recommend tapering off this aswell so that by week 16 you are only using .25mg eod.
HCG has a much longer half life than endogenous LH, from memory it is around 33hr compared to only 20min for LH. This has a profound effect on the HPTA as shown in a particular study where they examined the amount of testosterone production after, continuous infusion of recombinant LH or multiple bolus doses (2). Multiple bolus doses of LH allow for greater testosterone production than a continued infusion because this mimics the body's natural diurnal pattern of pulsatile LH secretion. So if you are injecting hCG which has a much longer half life, you are interfering with the the pulsatile release of LH from your pituitary, as a note it's hypothesised that hCG production during pregnancy is what feeds back to the hypothalamus to stop pulsatile LH release (3).
LH helps to maintain leydig cells in their differentiated state i.e. it keeps them producing testosterone, it doesn't keep them alive. In light of this, there is no reason why a taper would not work and actually takes no longer than a conventional PCT in the protocol I outlined above. Further to this, because leydig cells are not permanently damaged, not keeping them stimulated while on cycle isn't really going to affect you so long as you taper off. The taper gives your testes time to resume normal response to LH as you are not all of a sudden dropping testosterone cold turkey. You have enough exogenous testosterone in your system to maintain sexual function and hold onto gains but not enough to suppress your natural LH production and compromise testicular function.
You have to stand back a bit and look at the big picture, ultimately a PCT is about recovering as quickly as possible and with the least side effects as possible. A test taper allows you to do this. Sure you can take hCG here and there and then SERMs to offset leydig cell desensitization and then time hCG to mimic LH secretion as best you can, then deal with the added sides from nolva clomid, hCG etc. But you wan't your body to achieve homeostasis, I don't see how throwing more drugs into the mix all the while lining your dealer's pockets is going to be the easiest way of doing this. I guess its up to the individual and what they feel is the best option for them.
1. Smals AG et al.Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 51(5): 1026-9.
2. Veldhuis JD et al. Dynamic testosterone responses to near-physiological LH pulses are determined by the time pattern of prior intravenous LH infusion. Endo and metab 2012 303(6): 720-728.
3. Mores N et al. Activation of LH receptors expressed in GnRH neurons stimulates cyclic AMP production and inhibits pulsatile neuropeptide release. Endocrinology 1996 137(12): 5731-4.
people these days dont reed shit just respond to ejaculate their text as soon as possible
