full recovery possible?

I would say they got fake test to be honest its impossible to not gain at least 10lb from 12 weeks test even with the shittiest diet ever


Nolys, there's 100s and 100s of threads like that across all the bodybuilding aas forums. Alot of them purchase from well know legit sources. Especially when you read some of the threads on sites such as eroids, which has one of the largest source subforums.
 
Nolys, there's 100s and 100s of threads like that across all the bodybuilding aas forums. Alot of them purchase from well know legit sources. Especially when you read some of the threads on sites such as eroids, which has one of the largest source subforums.

ohhhh maaaan! you dont reed again :( people these days dont reed shit just respond to ejaculate their text as soon as possible

to inform you,main reason I do this is back atrophy,do you know what is atrophy?? if I didnt had it I wouldnt bother doing cycle

I bet you never had back atrophy like me and never tried to fight it,at certain places the muscle just dissapeared... you train muscle to make progress,when theres nothing to train,its fucking hard to progress
 
I would say they got fake test to be honest its impossible to not gain at least 10lb from 12 weeks test even with the shittiest diet ever

this.... I will be lucky if I get 50%+ of test I order.... theres too many sites,too many labs,everything I googled there was tons of fakes
 
I did research on steroids for the duration of my stay here in Steroid Discussion. I'm also going to dumb down some of the terms/words in this post because the OP learned English as a second language, so I hope they can understand what I am trying to communicate.

You definitely want to be familiar with most of the common androgens, anti-estrogens. It's good to avoid the anti-androgens obviously (but you can still learn about these). SARMs and SERMs are the wave of the future.

SARMs (selective androgen receptor modulators) are going to be a great area of interest for the future. Hopefully, there will be a SARM which mimics DHT and testosterone perfectly (meaning it could maintain physical/mental masculinization), while also not having any affinity for peripheral androgen receptors, such as those located on the prostate. Such a drug could be used to avoid contracting prostate cancer as a man grows older, while still maintaining the ideal effects of testosterone. I also theorize that new SARMs could also lack any peripheral affinity for androgen receptors that are connected to hair growth/hair loss (either to prevent hair loss in the scalp, or discourage hair growth in random parts of the body where it isn't ideal; back, ass, genitals, etc.), however time will have to tell.

Whether or not you can use steroids at your age, and get off of them while keeping your gains, is something that only you can find out by trying it. My gut instinct is saying that you will end up losing most of your gains. The guys here that have been body building for years/decades, have been perfecting cycling on and off steroids, and perfecting the art of retaining gains on steroids. Even when you have perfect diet, perfect exercise, perfect steroids and PCT planned, some gains can still be lost - and this is to be expected.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, we have seen 18 year olds take steroids, not plan for PCT, not have the best diet/exercise (albeit probably not the worst either), and these people typically end up losing most of their gains, if not all of them.

Because one could lose most if not all of ones gains, it is normally recommended for guys your age to stay away from exogenous (outside of the body) testosterone. The reason being, is because you stand to get great gains from endogenous testosterone at your age as it is. This is assuming, of course, that your levels are in the "normal range" which ranges quite considerably among all men. So given that your testosterone should be normal (if you are on methadone maintenance therapy, or have been using heroin or full agonist opiates for a long period of time, it's likely you are not in the "normal range"; otherwise I assume you should be) for your age, you should be able to get decent gains on your own.

I see that you say you have tried to implement diet/exercise naturally and you haven't gotten the gains you have been looking for or think are necessary to have a decent body, so it's worth posting the thread and waiting for Guido or Voxide to reply.

However I think I know Voxide's response is going to be a resounding "no". Guido will give you a very serious reply no matter what he decides too though, both guys are great people and are great for this community.

also theres girl I love for years and she recently become meth user,if I can get my body looking good again after all these years just sitting playing PC games,I might get back with her and then have possitive effect on her prevent her from ruining her life too

It is amazing you want to get fit and persuade this lady friend of yours to avoid meth and spend more time with you, I honestly hope that happens. :)

Meth addiction can be really bad for a lot of people though, so know that she will have to be the one who wants to quit for herself, and if that's the case, then best of luck. :)

why was onethousandidiots banned?

If I had to guess, it was an aussie101 alt; I think he has a grudge against OneThousandWords (hence the user name selection), and has been signing up for a lot of alts since his temporary ban (for what, I have no idea). This is just a guess though.
 
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wow! thanks for Great post,be my friend :)

about the gains lost ( I dont count water retention/lost as lost )... I reed many times,and this one extra detailed log and the dude was using same thing 500mg Test E a week with HCG/Clomid/Arimidex and great diet/excersise....

he gone from 76 to 85 and kept 83kg in 14week cycle... I plan to mimic that,why should I loose most of my gains when the dude kept most?

what else should I get for PCT except HCG Arimidex Nolva/Clomid are any of these mushroom powders and root extracts or whatever worth it??

if I trow in IGF-1 or HGH or both just for the duration of cycle + pct with maybe two week before the start and two week longer than pct,wouldnt that help dem gains to stay?
 
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he gone from 76 to 85 and kept 83kg in 14week cycle... I plan to mimic that,why should I loose most of my gains when the dude kept most?

Well there's a lot of factors; it's almost impossible to say whether or not your'e going to keep your gains, unless we all know how well you will diet/exercise/cycle/PCT/etc, and even then, it would still be an educated guess and not a guarantee.

I'm still interested to see what Guido would say to you.
 
Well there's a lot of factors; it's almost impossible to say whether or not your'e going to keep your gains, unless we all know how well you will diet/exercise/cycle/PCT/etc, and even then, it would still be an educated guess and not a guarantee.

I'm still interested to see what Guido would say to you.

truth nobody can know for sure..... maybe my prostate grows to size of elephant,I get covered in body hair so I will like It from adams family.... with bacne so bad than when it pops it sends tsunamy of white matter across whole europe and so on

but I still think its relatively racional to assume with everything done close to perfect I can get some very nice gains to stay
 
It really depends on the person, when I ran my last cycle I don't think there was a period where I thought I wasn't recovered already, I didn't feel any different and to this day havnt felt as though my natty test was supressed. It really depends on the person though with a good proper pct you should be fine and recover without a problem nolva, clomid and hcg is a decent pct though I don't think the hcg is nessecery.

Your gonna shut your boys down anyway, so why not make it worthwhile? I don't see a 4 week difference in length of cycle making much of a difference in recovery times though again this can depend on the person. Person A could do 8 weeks and never recover fully. Person B could run 20 weeks and be recovered in a matter of weeks.

The only way to keep an eye on your hormone levels properly is to get blood work done though, which I never have.

Hey nolys regards PCT..... I've a few thoughts I'd like to offer:

I'm not really a fan of using SERMS at all. If one was to use them, multiple studies suggest that 20mg/day is the best dosage to boost testosterone production with minimal side effects, this is the dosage pretty much every study published has used. There doesn't appear to be any benefit in going above that unless maybe you are doing a heavy aromatizable cycle. Even then you're better off tapering off everything.

When it comes to pharmacology, more is not necessarily better.

As for hCG, I don't understand why anyone would want to create another level of suppression in their HPTA? There is really no use for hCG, it desensitizes leydig cells in your testes to Leutinizing hormone so that when you eventually cease using hCG it takes a while for your testes to become sensitive to your own body's natural LH, thus prolonging your recovery. The use of hCG in males is limited to increasing fertility in HRT such that guys have enough viable sperm for their partners to conceive. When you are "shut down" your testes actually become more sensitive to LH due to receptor up-regulation. All that hCG will do is prolong your recovery.

I'd rather taper off and for this reason I wouldn't bother with SERMS as aromatase inhibitors like anastrazole are a better accompaniment to this protocol. Adding more PCT drugs into the mix just means more poly-pharmacy and more side effects.

With regard to hCG, receptor down regulation is just a reality for receptor mediated drug therapy. While the literature on this particular topic is scarce I have seen one showing the effects in humans as well as rats, albeit the human study was with large dosages greater than 1000iu. Regardless, while you may be able to safely administer therapeutic doses of hCG without inducing primary hypogonadism, why would you? LH is not the problem when it comes to coming off cycle, LH concentrations rise simultaneously with a fall in serum androgen levels and it is a myth that all exogenous testosterone must clear your system before your HPTA restarts. Your body cannot tell the difference between endogenous and exogenous testosterone.

So if hCG mimics LH yet serum LH rises with falling androgen concentrations anyway, whats the point in administering it? Having said that it is important to note that when I say androgens I mean testosterone. Other AAS which have different binding affinities for the androgen receptor may still be suppressing LH production in spite of negligible levels of circulating testosterone. For this reason I have seen it been recommended that a low dose test bridge (100mg/ week) be used before the taper in order to allow time for other AAS to clear your system. The bridge should be equal to at least 4x the longest half life of any co-administered androgens/anabolics.
Your brain senses the amount of sex hormones in your blood and adjusts the secretion of LH accordingly. Its doing this all the time. It doesn't matter whether its secreted from your testes or injected into the body, testosterone is testosterone. Your brain only senses how much is in your blood not where it came from.

You don't really have to worry about permanent shut down with normal cycle lengths. Studies where guys have been administered 600mg of test for 6 months show that LH production still resumes as normal.

Regarding a Taper protocol: Depends on ester, but for test E:

Weeks 1-10: 375mg test/week
Week 11-12: 100mg
Week 13: 75mg
Week 14: 50mg

If you have to use an AI use a conservative dose eg. arimidex .125-.25mg/day and continue till week 16. I would recommend tapering off this aswell so that by week 16 you are only using .25mg eod.

HCG has a much longer half life than endogenous LH, from memory it is around 33hr compared to only 20min for LH. This has a profound effect on the HPTA as shown in a particular study where they examined the amount of testosterone production after, continuous infusion of recombinant LH or multiple bolus doses (2). Multiple bolus doses of LH allow for greater testosterone production than a continued infusion because this mimics the body's natural diurnal pattern of pulsatile LH secretion. So if you are injecting hCG which has a much longer half life, you are interfering with the the pulsatile release of LH from your pituitary, as a note it's hypothesised that hCG production during pregnancy is what feeds back to the hypothalamus to stop pulsatile LH release (3).

LH helps to maintain leydig cells in their differentiated state i.e. it keeps them producing testosterone, it doesn't keep them alive. In light of this, there is no reason why a taper would not work and actually takes no longer than a conventional PCT in the protocol I outlined above. Further to this, because leydig cells are not permanently damaged, not keeping them stimulated while on cycle isn't really going to affect you so long as you taper off. The taper gives your testes time to resume normal response to LH as you are not all of a sudden dropping testosterone cold turkey. You have enough exogenous testosterone in your system to maintain sexual function and hold onto gains but not enough to suppress your natural LH production and compromise testicular function.

You have to stand back a bit and look at the big picture, ultimately a PCT is about recovering as quickly as possible and with the least side effects as possible. A test taper allows you to do this. Sure you can take hCG here and there and then SERMs to offset leydig cell desensitization and then time hCG to mimic LH secretion as best you can, then deal with the added sides from nolva clomid, hCG etc. But you wan't your body to achieve homeostasis, I don't see how throwing more drugs into the mix all the while lining your dealer's pockets is going to be the easiest way of doing this. I guess its up to the individual and what they feel is the best option for them.

1. Smals AG et al.Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 51(5): 1026-9.

2. Veldhuis JD et al. Dynamic testosterone responses to near-physiological LH pulses are determined by the time pattern of prior intravenous LH infusion. Endo and metab 2012 303(6): 720-728.

3. Mores N et al. Activation of LH receptors expressed in GnRH neurons stimulates cyclic AMP production and inhibits pulsatile neuropeptide release. Endocrinology 1996 137(12): 5731-4.
 
Genetic Freak you are fuckin legend! big time thanks to you,I do it as you say,no HCG and nice gentle reduction in doses last 4 weaks

also how it is with testosterones? the longer the more gyno and worse recovery? test c < test e < p??? I never injected anything myself and I have phobia from needles,I would prefer the infrequent dosing
 
When it comes to pharmacology, more is not necessarily better.

^ especially when it comes to psychedelics

It took me a while to realize that you really can have too much of a good thing.

I never injected anything myself and I have phobia from needles,I would prefer the infrequent dosing

Giving yourself an IM shot isn't difficult but you will definitely want to read up on all the HR information you can about all of this. You'll also want to make sure you can use a brand new needle each time; sharing needles with someone else runs you the risk of getting any/all STD's they have, HIV, and potentially Hep C (if they are a dirty dog so to speak).

It's never worth having to share needles, and I don't know what it's like to try to get needles where you're from; hopefully you'll have access to them.
 
Test e is better very slightly than test c I believe, though the difference is minimal, not even worth talking about. Test p has more mg per mg free testosterone than both e and c, but you will wanna stick to a long ester for a first cycle.

If your from the uk you can get needles free of charge from BOOTS pharmacy or depending on where you live needle exchanges?

You don't wanna use the same needle more than once mate, they get blunter every time you use and can end up being quite painful. The brand I use (terumo) have some needles that are blunt even before using them for some reason and they literally will not go through my skin, they just hurt a lot lol
 
Test e is better very slightly than test c I believe, though the difference is minimal, not even worth talking about. Test p has more mg per mg free testosterone than both e and c, but you will wanna stick to a long ester for a first cycle.

If your from the uk you can get needles free of charge from BOOTS pharmacy or depending on where you live needle exchanges?

You don't wanna use the same needle more than once mate, they get blunter every time you use and can end up being quite painful. The brand I use (terumo) have some needles that are blunt even before using them for some reason and they literally will not go through my skin, they just hurt a lot lol

thanks for the needle tip!

I heard the Test P have lest gyno and other horrors than longer E&C... I really really really dont want fucking manboobs,I will take low dose arimidex all the time,but still.... please just no tits I am male ffs lol!
 
500mg is very unlikely to trigger gyno symptoms mate, having an AI on hand will be needed just in case but you should be fine without it. I'd buy some and have it to use if you start getting itchy nipples lol but not use it until you need to
 
500mg is very unlikely to trigger gyno symptoms mate, having an AI on hand will be needed just in case but you should be fine without it. I'd buy some and have it to use if you start getting itchy nipples lol but not use it until you need to

hmmm so no very low dose from start?? AI = Arimidex = Estrogen killer right?? and I get itchy nipples when the gyno starts so I know right away when shit hits the fan?

btw why is your avatar meowing cop and when I view your profile its pile of mephderp?
 
AI = aromatase inhibitor = estrogen killer yes. Its what I and a lot of others do for their cycles though the reason I choose not to is just because I don't want to waste money. You can if you want but it can always be saved for later cycles.
Btw if buying armidex, but in liquid form (liquidex) because its a hell of a lot cheaper

I used to be a drug user a few years back that's my profile pic lol, my avatar is just what you see when I post in threads and its a joke from the movie “super troopers”
 
AI = aromatase inhibitor = estrogen killer yes. Its what I and a lot of others do for their cycles though the reason I choose not to is just because I don't want to waste money. You can if you want but it can always be saved for later cycles.
Btw if buying armidex, but in liquid form (liquidex) because its a hell of a lot cheaper

I used to be a drug user a few years back that's my profile pic lol, my avatar is just what you see when I post in threads and its a joke from the movie “super troopers”

man you are super helpfull

this is dumb question but all these pharm brands in top eu sites, Kalpa,Balkan,Gen-Shi.... is this UGL,Vet Grade or Human grade??
 
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