fucking fucking fuck.. the abortion issue of late

[eloise]

so we're listening to the radio now, and one dumbfuck in parliament has even suggested trading his vote for the sale of telstra in return for less medicare-funded abortions...

i'm getting angrier by the minute.

let's rant.

 

[pig tails]

I agree with you totally eloise!!!

It's so very wrong (what's going on not abortion).

I count myself lucky to never have had one BUT I was always glad to know it was an easily available option.

A couple of years ago I had a preg scare and had I been preggy, I would have had an abortion. My now husband (then boyfriend) was chronically ill, not working and I was just starting a post-grad degree. It would have been terrible timing and we would not have continued with the pregnancy. This would have been one of the hardest decisions I ever made (had I had to make it) but it would have been the right thing to do.

I can't believe that such a decision could be made harder by interfering polly's- old men who think that they know what's best for women - IT PISSES ME OFF

/end rant

 

[eloise]

do you know the ratio of men to women in parliament? that's a worry too.

 

[Shnouzerpuff]

What cracked me up a week or so ago was when I was involved in a heated argument with one of my dad's friends.

An extraodinarily right winged south african man who was trying to have a go at me because I voted Greens and not Liberal at the recent election.

Then he asks me "Are you Pro-Abortion?"

What sort of fucking question is that? No I am not pro-abortion I am pro-choice.

No Difference he replies.

Damn right there is a difference. One implies I am actively for killing the unborn, the other implies I have enough respect for those who really matter in the issue - the potential parents - to make the best decision depending on their circumstances, which may or may not mean abortion.

 

[anna!]

Here's my opinion (unpopular and rambling as it may be).

I don't think it should be used as a means of birth control, ever. The morning after pill has got to be a better alternative than having an abortion. I think it should always be available to rape or incest victims in particular, and I don't hold any ill feeling towards people who responsibly use birth control and it just fails, because they're trying to do the right thing by everyone and it's not really their fault.

Part of me thinks that there should be screening. If someone's having multiple abortions, find out why. One small part of me thinks that people who just "don't like birth control" shouldn't be allowed to have abortions, but of course that isn't fair on the child (but then, I guess abortion isn't really fair on the child either).

I'm all for having legal abortions and I think they're useful when used appropriately and for the "right" reasons. I despise people who end up having 3 or more abortions in ONE YEAR because they're fucking lazy with their birth control methods. That's just not on, I basically think it's inhumane.

Now anyway, I agree that the abortion level in Australia is outrageously high. I read the other day that 1 in 3 pregnancies in Australia end in abortion, and in my (very) humble opinion that's just too many, and it shouldn't be like that. And um, I kind of think that maybe if they were less readily available, people would be more inclined to have safer sex, or at least try to remember to have safer sex.

When I was pregnant after I had my daughter* I (ugh) looked into having an abortion, and it is SO easy! Honestly, I really, really don't think it should be so readily available to everyone. It just makes it so much easier for irresponsible, careless people to be able to say "oh well, it doesn't matter, I'll just have an abortion". I hate that that mindset is able to exist.

(Disclaimer: I completely understand that for a large number of people, maybe even most people, the decision to have an abortion is extremely painful and/or difficult. So this isn't directed towards them.)

Now, what I DO abhor is the idea of banning late-term abortions. A whole bunch of republicans got up in arms about Kerry voting for late-term abortion, but here's the thing. If you ban late-term abortion, you ban saving mothers who will DIE if their baby is not aborted (in the case of internal bleeding, uterine rupture, etc.). It happens more than people are aware, I think - I personally know 4 women who have had late-term abortions because of a severe risk to their health. And if you do that, well, you kill the baby as well. How is that in the spirit of "pro-life"? I don't understand that at all.

Next week we go for our 20 week ultrasound for our new baby. There are so many things that can be picked up at it, bad things - no brain, no kidneys, half a heart, no stomach, no bladder, severe malformation, etc. Things that the doctors call "incompatible with life". If having termination just as an option wasn't available in the case of the baby being destined to die during or soon after birth, my God, I think I would lose my mind.

Having the option for people is incredibly important, because there ARE exceptions to the "got drunk and slept with the guy from Sales" rule and it's simply outrageous to deny such a service to, for example, 11 year old girls who are pregnant by their uncles. Seriously.

* Not this time, another time when daughter was very young, I miscarried

Edited to add footnote!

 

[keystroke]

I'm not taking sides here as I hate abortions, but for anyone that thinks it's not fair on the "child"..... there isn't yet an actual "child" to harm......

 

[muzby]

its not right to take life away without the life having a choice...


but it's also not right to have life forced apon someone without their choice..


its a messy messy issue that needs to be looked at in a case by case study...

but yeah, it should NOT be used as a birth control method...



on a side note, some animals actually have self abortions built in.... i'm a bit stuffed with the flu today so i am not thinking straight, but from memory, i am pretty sure a rabbit can absorb a growing baby back into its womb if it feels like the time is not right to have the child..

so there is SOME place for the abortion issue in nature...

 

[anna!]

Originally posted by keystroke
I'm not taking sides here as I hate abortions, but for anyone that thinks it's not fair on the "child"..... there isn't yet an actual "child" to harm......

Just for another perspective (and not at all to say that yours is wrong) I used to feel like this, then had my own child and have trouble with it now. I guess it depends on when the abortion is done - once they have arms and legs, I struggle with it.

But that's just me, and I'm a pretty mushy pregnancy hormones type crazy person at the moment.

 

[KemicalBurn]

well, medically speaking, the fetus is a parasite (before you flame me, look it up) and until it the expectant mother comes to term, it isnt considered "alive" (i used quotation marks to indicate people have different interpretations on what alive is). I tend to side with science when it comes to terms like that.

 

[-Thoth]

Technically considered, the morning after pill constitutes 'abortion' anna.

I generally fall into the pro-choice category. I think it was Kerry who said he would like abortions to be "Legal, Safe and Rare" a pretty good elucidation. However, I also respect that it is probably none of my fucking business. I'm a man. I don't have kids.

Moral prescriptions about the evils of abortion from a male domiated legilature is about as fucking paternalistic as it gets.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

Anna, I quickly read through what you wrote and I think I completely agree with you.

Although I dont think you would agree with this I basically think the only people who should have abortions are people who seriously dont ever will have the ability to maintain the child EVER, someone who would harm the child or a women that has been raped.

The abortion rate in Australia is way too high. What i dont think that any of us got, including me, is that when you have sex, everytime, its a responsibility. The responsibilty comes from knowing that act could lead to a child and you have to do stuff to prevent it.

I have spoken to women in their 30's, married and have had three abortions, just because they didnt 'feel' like it. To me that is absolutely pathetic we live in a system that allows people like that to terminate a pregnancy because they didnt account for the responsibility.

If I were in control of these laws, in no way on earcth would I let a financially secure women in her 30's married have an abortion.


Those women aside, I also dont think that teenage girls should also not so easily be allowed to have abortions either. I dont really care what you tell me, there are girls, quite possibly myself, who in the back of our minds in that moment of 'passion' subconsciously process the thought 'there is always an abortion or the morning after pill'.

I would make more teenage girls have these babies, but be psychological assessed beforehand. Why ? A few reasons. With teenage girls having babies, their friends are going to start realising that these screaming masses of flesh are not worth forgetting the condom, combine this with the more difficult it will be to get an abortion and girls will start to realise what sex is really about.

And that is responsibility.

 

[keystroke]

I've always thought.... after working in Campbeltown for a year and seeing all the single mothers that look under 18 and kids running around basically at midnight, who I'd think were under the age of 14 , there's a lot of people in this world that should never be allowed to have children... or at least until they sort their own mess of a life out first...

Ruining your life is something, but bringing another life into the world and neglecting that is a whole different thing... so I think there's a bit of a two-way compromise, where some people wanting to have kids but will never provide adequate love and protection for them, should probably be barred from giving birth until they can prove they are able to provide what a child needs.

 

[NickyJ]

I just discovered the other day my fuck friend had an abortion when she was 21. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. I guess it's none of my business really. She assures me she no choice. Pointless story.

Ruining your life is something, but bringing another life into the world and neglecting that is a whole different thing... so I think there's a bit of a two-way compromise, where some people wanting to have kids but will never provide adequate love and protection for them, should probably be barred from giving birth until they can prove they are able to provide what a child needs.

Agreed.

 

[anna!]

Technically considered, the morning after pill constitutes 'abortion' anna.

Technically, it doesn't. An embryo doesn't form until about two days after an egg is fertilised and the embryo doesn't implant in the uterus until at least three days after that. The morning after pill essentially makes the uterus inhabitable, but it will remove all eggs, fertilised or not, and it does not abort an embryo that already exists. Only an abortion pill does that, the morning after pill is just a shield to stop a fertilised egg from developing any further (which is why you can only take it 72 hours after unprotected sex, and the sooner you take it, the more likely it is to be effective).

abortion [n.]
Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus that is incapable of survival.

Anyway, regardless of what constitutes a foetus, I was just giving my emotional attachment to an unborn baby, not a technical explanation. What I said in my first post was my actual feelings on the subject, I'm not interested in debating when life begins.

 

[silvia saint]

women should always have the right to abort and access to such services regardless of their financial situation. the argument initiated by certain factions of the government regarding limiting how long into a pregnancy one can abort is merely a stepping stone for these conservative religious fucks to ban abortion altogether. wow, they didn't waste any time post election victory did they?

 

[dancefifi]

I would make more teenage girls have these babies, but be psychological assessed beforehand. Why ? A few reasons. With teenage girls having babies, their friends are going to start realising that these screaming masses of flesh are not worth forgetting the condom, combine this with the more difficult it will be to get an abortion and girls will start to realise what sex is really about.

And that is responsibility.

But how would these teenage girls treat their kids. Can they bring them up in an environment that befits the kid. Fair enough, what sort of environment that befits a kid depends on many situations, however, if a teenage girl is not ready for motherhood and at the same time denied abortion. How will she feel toward her kid?

Ruining your life is something, but bringing another life into the world and neglecting that is a whole different thing... so I think there's a bit of a two-way compromise, where some people wanting to have kids but will never provide adequate love and protection for them, should probably be barred from giving birth until they can prove they are able to provide what a child needs.

I agree with the above statement all the way. In my opinion, it overlaps with what I put forward earlier..

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

teenage girl is not ready for motherhood

Yes, if she is not ready for motherhood, then she needs to use protection or not have sex. Its as simple as that.

This idea that expecting women/ teenage girls to be responsible for their bodies and choices needs to be more educated. I find it disgraceful that anyone that says to me "its not that easy you know, just to expect that"

What ? And going to have a surgical operation to kill a something that was going to be your child is an easier option ? I think that because abortion is so rife in Australia it seems that most people think its an acceptable thing to do under any circumstances.

re: Teenage girls and how they will treat their children - probably a lot better than most mothers. I have known people who have had children before the age of 18 that have cared for their children beautifully. I think that about 50 - 80 years ago having a child in your teens was the norm - it has nothing to do with capabilty and everything comes back to maturity and responsibility.

If you are mature enough to fuck without protection, then you are mature enough to deal with a child.

Nuff said.

 

[katmeow]

The high rate of abortion in Australia is troubling, but I don't think the answer is to cut back on the availability of it.

Sex education at our school (and I can imagine many others) consisted of a teacher telling us about male and female biology and getting condom on the way out. No discussion at all about the repercussions and responsibilities involved with having children & I think that is something that has to be looked at.

I have more to say so I'll come back to this one (cos I'm really meant to be studying ) but...


Abortion - Your thoughts

 

[Pseudo G]

I believe that women should have the choice to have an abortion. It's their bodies, it's their choice.

Having said that, I also (like some previous posters) think that if women are given the right to choose, they should also have to seriously undertake the responsibility to take precautions so that they reduce the chances of them having to make that choice.

Women that choose to have an active sex life while not undertaking effective forms of birth control for reasons such as "It gives me a bloated stomach" or "It feels better without" should not be allowed to use abortion as a safety net or fall back option in the case of them falling pregnant.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

I disagree.

Its not their right to chose if they have a child or not. That is absolutely insane. As I have said before only a minority of women should be allowed to make this choice. Its not "every womens" choice to bring a child to full term.

It is however every womens choice to have sex, and to have it protected or not.