fucking fucking fuck.. the abortion issue of late

[keystroke]

[BIf you are mature enough to fuck without protection, then you are mature enough to deal with a child.[/B]

I totally disagree with that statement, there are too many females in this country with the attitude that it's okay to have sex unprotected.

Most of the time, IMO, if the girl is having sex unprotected she isn't at all mature if she's not taking other precautionary measures.

 

[doof-kittie]

Im going to try and discuss this the best I can, even though I know I have no hope of articulating exactly how I feel.
To begin with, I am pro-choice. My body is my own business, and a pack of men who still think its 1955 can damn well keep their hands and their laws off my uterus.
I understand that there are people who have moral and religious objections, and thats fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion and can allow their beliefs to guide their own actions. But when you try to force your beliefs on me, thats when I get pissed off.
The simple fact is that men cannot give birth. Abortion laws, and other laws relating to reproduction, serve to establish and maintain control over womens bodies, because women hold power through their ability to give birth. Scientific advances make the role of men less and less important in reproduction. Paternalistic laws seek to diminish the freedom and power that women hold.
The right to obtain a safe abortion as neccessary is fundamental. Now I don't believe it should be used in place of contraception, and of course, it needs to come with counselling, support, and be a thought out decision. But just the knowledge that it is available in a safe environment is crucial. The last thing we need is a return to backyard abortionists using knitting needles and wire coat hangers because women feel they have no other choice.

/end rant

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

I totally disagree with that statement, there are too many females in this country with the attitude that it's okay to have sex unprotected.

Most of the time, IMO, if the girl is having sex unprotected she isn't at all mature if she's not taking other precautionary measures.

Yes thats kinda what I meant.

Once they bear children, they will mature very quickly. I think its kinda funny that we think that someone needs to be 35 years old to be able to look after a child. Like I said before, 50 - 100 years ago it was unusual for girls to give birth to their first child after their teens. Stop underestimating 14 - 20 year olds. Once they give birth, they adapt. I have seen them. If you dont think that they are mature enough to be bearing children, then maybe we should test all women for intelligence and maturity and ability to look after their child. Wait a minute, that would reduce our population growth to about zilch. Before you all start shooting your mouths off about the capabilities of someone in their teens being able to look after their child, I would dare you to meet a few mothers, then come back to me.

I am certain that most teenage mothers would be disgusted with anyones comments that suggested that their age inhibits their ability to be a caregiver.

 

[keystroke]

I'm speaking from first hand experience in seeing it with my own eyes, I'm sick to death of seeing children running around at midnight with no parents in sight doing god knows what - thursday nights at the mall not too far from my place I see kids as young as probably 12 running around (the guys dressed up like wanna-be gangsters and the girls dressed up like tarts) and where the hell are there parents?

I'm not saying age is a problem, I'm saying being unreliable, uncaring, unloving and unable to provide a decent environment for a child is what stops me from believing that teenagers can have children and "learn to be mature"


if you're going to have a child, sure you'll have to mature very fast, but if you don't - your kids are probably the bastards that are breaking into my car at night time stealing my things....

 

[silvia saint]

your views have surprised me this time breakabeat

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

^^^ My mum had me young and was not the ideal mother. She was an addict. I never touched drugs nor have I have ever committed a crime until I was about 20.

The age at which you have children will have very little bearing to how they will act when they get older. You are seriously deluded if you think that those 12 year olds hanging out at your mall have parents that born them young. You have experienced nothing first hand - you say where are their parents which infers that you have no idea about these childrens parents ages.

 

[keystroke]

I am not talking about young families, I'm talking about all families that don't care about their kids and let them do whatever they want, usually wrong things...

if you are unsuitable to bare children, simple - you should never be allowed to have them until proven you're stable enough and will provide a loving home and protection for said child(ren)


*edit*



and just to add to this, I have experienced children that come from bad or unsteady backgrounds - I was the only person in my class for a few years that actually had a father and most other kids didn't even know their fathers name....

 

[eloise]

the main thing that pissed me off was the way the politicians were comparing womens bodies to FUCKING TELSTRA...

i mean sweet jesus, can someone say COMPLETELY DIFFERENT? the absolute fucknuts...

re: Queensland senator-elect Barnaby Joyce has hinted at trading his vote on the final sell off of Telstra to the restriction of Medicare-funded abortions. (sun herald editorial, nov. 7)

 

[keystroke]

anyone with a name of Barnaby has my vote!


:D

 

[ozbreaker]

And recent articles that i have read have shown that the abortion rate has not grown rather the governemnt is making shit up (or if not them - someone else on their behalf) to help the propaganda campaign and prepare the public with the perception that the abortion rate is too high thus bringing a non-issue and a given into the public light and examining an issue that does not actually need examining but is being pushed no doubt by a particular strain of some churches and the 'morals and values' brigade.

 

[apollo]

Saying "it's your fault for having unprotected sex" is puerile; no shit, I think a pregnant mother knows that. It doesn't change their unwillingness to be a mother. I'd like to think abortion isn't necessary, but unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancies are going to continue regardless of abortion laws.

What does it matter how adaptive and caring a woman can be if she doesn't want to be a mother? Her caring side is not likely to come out without a rather severe, albeit possible, paradigm shift.

All I can see changing laws/medicare support achieving is wealthier women skipping the country for abortions elsewhere, and terrifically unhygenic and dangerous garage abortion clinics popping up for the poorer ones. I guess what I'm saying is; it's near impossible to change the fact people want abortions.

There's no sense in being didactic about other people's sex lives, or arguing what is/isn't "alive" to prove your point on abortion (although it is interesting stuff). We are not perfect, and never will be. As much as it sucks, abortion is going to continue, with or without governmental support.

 

[dancefifi]

I don't think that age is a very big factor that will predetermine whether a female will be a great mother or not. It is still however a factor, but as said before, one matures once put into the situation of having a child.

The difference is whether the female wants to have the kid or not. I'm not saying that abortion should be use as another contraceptive. People should know the concequences of having unprotected sex and people should go through discussion and all that before actually performing the abortion. However, taking away the choice from them, in my opinion is bad because they might not want the kid and hence end up resenting and neglecting them hence the kid might not end up being brought up properly because of this.

 

[Solipsist]

Hooray for ranting.

I don't think that abortions should be used as a form of birth control, and I believe that the abortion rates in Australia are too high BUT they have been falling over the last few years, and so I think it's ridiculous that members of the government decides that now is a good time to open up the abortion debate.

It is disgustingly ridiculous that these middle-aged men think that anything will be solved by banning or restricting abortions. The Governor-General's views were right on the money: people need more education about safe forms of birth control.

I know of girls that have had multiple abortions, and the age-group of women most likely to get an abortion are in the 30s and have already had children, which doesn't sound right to me at all. Birth control also needs to be stressed and made more accessible. Free and available condoms are a great thing, but not enough. The pill is getting more expensive, and sex clinics (at least the one that's near me) can no longer afford to anonymously give out packs. Tony Abbott won't allow people under the age of 16 to obtain the pill without their parents' consent, so of course many kids are going without. Doctors are judging women and can and do refuse women who request the morning after pill. If the government was truly concerned about the number of abortions performed, THIS would be their focus.

 

[up all night]

I am definitely pro-choice.

While I do understand the argument that if someone is careless enough to get pregnant they should have to deal with the consequences I still think it's a ridiculous notion. People make mistakes, particularly teenagers who often don't think about the consequences of their actions. I'm sure there are MANY of you who have had unprotected sex while drunk or under the influence of something even though when sober you would never do such a thing... what if you'd got really unlucky and you or your partner had fallen pregnant? You can't deny that it is much harder for someone with a child to attend school or uni and build a career [I'm not saying it's impossible... just harder]. How many of you, right now, would be financially and emotionally stable enough to raise a child and give it everything it deserved. Personally, I know that I only want to have a child when I can offer it a stable family life and if I had a child right now I wouldn't be able to support it on my own.

If you ban abortions the people it will most affect are young girls, the ones who can't afford to pay exorbitant prices for an abortion. I really hate seeing teenagers pushing their prams looking tired and frazzled and old beyond their years. Fair enough if that's what they want out of life but it saddens me to think that if abortions are banned some of these teenagers will be losing opportunities in their lives because of one mistake.

Children are a precious gift, there is no denying that, but in my mind the lives of those already living is more important than that of a foetus [and lets not get into an argument about when life actually starts because in my mind it doesn't start at conception].

I just can't believe that they are considering taking away the woman's right to decide what is best for her. God it makes me so sick. I don't normally get involved in issues like this but if it does actually look like going ahead you can be damn sure I will be doing everything I can to protest against it. Sometimes I feel like this country is going backwards.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

your views have surprised me this time breakabeat

hRM.

I do not disagree with abortion, I am very pro abortion and there is always a place for it in our society. I dont agree with anyone having the right to kill their child. If they are in a position to afford and care for it, there should be laws in place to ensure that they cant abort. Stupid stupid women chose to abort their children for the most stupid selfish reasons such as image and the child not fitting into their lifestyle. That sickens me and the thought that we would allow such women to be able to make that choice horrifies me.

However if the government chose to restrict abortions, they would not target these women, but people who really need the choice, being young girls ect. So its a fruitless argument.

 

[star_beats]

Its dangerous to force anyone to have a child.

Even if a person is well off enough to support the child, the resentment that the mother will feel towards the child that they didn't want is a terrible thing that will scar the child/person forever [as was noted by dancefifi]

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

Oh my god I am totally not getting into a us and you fight.

Dont even expect me to bite back - I was only replying to SS.

 

[RiseGurl]

A cockroach crawling around ur living room is a pest. Kill it.
A baby whom u have no real care to look after and support is a pest. Kill it.



Im a woman, im all for abortion, Im sure if men could fall pregnant they certainly would change a few things now wouldnt they? It would be OKAY!!!

Seriously, we are people of free speach, free choice, all this " Oh you killed something something" bullshit, well let me tell u, an uneducated, properly cared for child in this society is gonna do more damage than killing a fucking fetus.

Most mental issues in Adults are stemmed from bad childhoods, it costs society so much time and effort to fix these kinda issues... for example, This is a fact, 90% of serial killers come from bad familys, familys who neglected their children, didnt really want them, didnt have the funds to support or educate them properly etc etc....

I think if ppl had the time to grow up and decided Yes NOW i want a child, instead of having it forced apon them then heck this world would be a lot happier.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[keystroke]

Its dangerous to force anyone to have a child.

Even if a person is well off enough to support the child, the resentment that the mother will feel towards the child that they didn't want is a terrible thing that will scar the child/person forever [as was noted by dancefifi]

I agree with that totally!

 

[Pseudo G]

BREAKaBEAT, how in one post you say...

I do not disagree with abortion, I am very pro abortion and there is always a place for it in our society.

Yet else where you say

I disagree.

Its not their right to chose if they have a child or not.

So you're pro abortion, but you don't believe women have the right to choose whether they have a child or not. So all women who get prgenant must have an abortion?

Elsewhere...

It is however every womens choice to have sex, and to have it protected or not.

Yep, sure. But if a women is having unprotected sex and doesn't want to get pregnant at that point how is an abortion being used in any other fashion than a method of birth control?