Freebasing / Vaporizing Psilocin and Psilocybin

[StagnantReaction]

^^ Of course I'd rather take my chances snorting, smoking, or eating anything that's impure instead of injecting it..

 

[genaro]

freebase psilocybin ? wow looks like a fun idea, but I would expect an incredibly intense come up , like "Vo000shH ! Wow ! why, who, where am I ?"
Use a freebase (crack) pipe.

 

[genaro]

right, but I guess what he's seeking is a ruhing come up freebasing it, an incredibly violent feeling, extreme sensations (wich is exactly what most of us have been enjoying when doing nitrous on mushrooms)

 

[deviate]

I really dislike the way this comment was made.

It doesn't matter how you introduce a chemical into your body, for example- cocaine, whether you smoke, snort, or poke, you are STILL doing the same drug, but with longer/shorter duration.

I asked my physician what the safest way to administer cocain to my body was, and he told me that IV was the safest for the body considering the alternatives. Although it is suggested to use a purification method first (acetone).

Snorting - causes irriversable damage to the mucous membranes and nasal cavity.

Smoking - causes significant damage to the lungs due to oil deposits from the freebase.

IV - in worst case, you will collapse a vein. It leaves a clean little incision that heals in minutes, and dosen't leave anything to rot your body parts.

Straight from a doctors mouth.

I admit, that freebasing is not the best route of ingestion, but one of the most frowned upon 'junkie' methods (needle) is in fact the safest.

Much Love

what about eating? i thought IV was the most dangerous way to administer cocaine because it put the most strain on the heart.

 

[Leg]

i have smoked a little bit of shrooms before, and it did seem to produce a little bit of an effect, but it could have been placebo, i can't say...(sorry if this isn't exactly on-topic...i've never freebased/vaporized shrooms)

 

[Solipsis]

Wow after all this time I still think the jury is out on this.

I've found accounts stating that psilocybin can be vaporized and others that it can't and the same for psilocin. Some opinions are based on theory and others on bioassays / experiments.

It seems like too much confusion to say that it doesn't work whatsoever and that its a myth. Apparently some people can get the right conditions while others can not and it is not widely accepted what the right conditions actually are!

Seeing as I expect to have enough mushrooms to experiment with in the coming years I do plan on making extracts and make crystallized products, hopefully I can manage to get mainly psilocybin and on the other hand mainly psilocin. An alcoholic tincture with vitamin C also sounds like a good plan so that it doesn't break down instantly.

I'm fascinated by the suggestion, at the very least.
Check this!!!

quoted here for propagation:

NSFW:

Melting & Boiling Points: Various Tryptamines
Substance CAS # melting point boiling point
DMT N,N-DimethylTryptamine 61-50-7 44.6-46.8°C (116°F) (crystals) 60-80°C (crystals)
DET N,N-DiethylTryptamine 61-51-8 175-177 °C
DPT N,N-DipropylTryptamine 61-52-9 178-179 °C
DIPT N,N-DiisopropylTryptamine 14780-24-6 198-199 °C
AMT α-methylTryptamine 299-26-3 200-203 °C
5-MeO-DMT 5-Methoxy-N,N-DimethylTryptamine 1019-45-0 69-70°C 154°F
(145-146 °C for the hydrochloride)
5-MeO-DET 5-Methoxy-N,N-DiethylTryptamine 158-160 °C
Psilocybin 4-Hydroxy-N,N-DimethylTryptamine 520-53-6 220-228° C (Crystals from boiling water)
185-195° C (Crystals from methanol) ?
Psilocin 4-Phosphoryloxy-N,N-DimethylTryptamine 520-52-5 173-176° C (plates from methanol) ?
Baeocystin 4-phosphoryloxy-N-methyltryptamine; 254-258° C (crystals from methanol)
4-OH-DET 4-hydroxy-N,N-Diethyltryptamine;
3-[2-(diethylamino)ethyl]-4-indolol 103-104 °C (white crystals)
recrystallized from EtOAc/hexane
4-Acetoxy-DET 4-acetoxy-N,N-Diethyltryptamine ?
4-acetoxy-DMT 4-acetoxy-N,N-Diethyltryptamine 172-173 °C
(www.rhodium.ws, from MeOH)

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4-Acetoxy-DET is smokable and effective at doses lower than the oral dose.
(from the 4-acetoxy-DET Primer at Erowid)

The free-base form of 4-acetoxy-DET also lends itself to pyro-assay technique. Smoking anywhere from 5–20 mg can provide an immersive full-flavored tryptamine experience. It takes a bit longer to fully develop and is longer lasting than DMT. Be prepared for the unexpected. There are only a few reports of this route thus far, and some variance in personal sensitivity has been observed. One person was completely smashed with 15 mg while another found the experience to be quite mild at the same level.


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4-Acetocy-DET (trip report at Erowid)
Mild and Pastel - by Checkin In
DOSE : 6 mg smoked 4-Acetoxy-DET (freebase)
BODY WEIGHT : 185 lb

6:00PM - After long day at work, began pyrolizing small amounts on tin foil (molded from a pill bottle) using lighter and glass tube. Take your time...hold it in. Effects come immediately...happiness, then within minutes, color amped up and some bubbling atmosphere. Wait a few and finish 5-7mg. Notice jaws closed tight but nothing like strong X and it diminished as I became aware of it. Was able to go to the store (Asian), cool pastel and neon signs, cars, and, streetlights as I drive. The whole reality is colorshifting, not paranoid.)


The experience lasted much longer than I expected. Colors and euphoria for 4 hours, then came the nausea and a cold uck feeling (anxiety attack). This is not going to give me closed eye visuals like I see on very small amounts of shrooms (large amounts explode into fantasia). It does however distort my body image pretty well for such a small amount that I tried. Doesn’t make me horney like 4ACO DIPT. Euphoria and good feelings lasted into following day. Suggest taking it slow, a mellow show at the right dose. Don’t pushit.


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Smoked Psilocybe cubensis Extract Effective
from erowid.org
An Immense Wave of Relaxation Hit Me
Mushrooms (Psilocybin)
by Jonas


DOSE : smoked Mushrooms (extract)

BODY WEIGHT : 170 lb


Hi, I'd like to report a very unusual experience I've had with the mushroom. Recently I'd gotten hold of a very large amount of high quality shrooms, who were reported to be very visual and jumpy in nature. From that batch I took about 1/3 ounce, ground it up to a fine powder and let it sit for 24 h in one Liter anhydrous methanol, shaking occasionally. I'd read that psilocybin extracts better in acidic conditions, so I added 10 drops concentrated sulfuric acid as well. Both methanol and sulfuric acid were bought at the store of all stores, Home Depot. The next day after a final shaking, I poured the solution through 2 coffee filters in a glass dish and let it evaporte over the next 2 days. The extracted shroom powder dried very quickly. To have a feel for how much was extracted, I shared the powder that same night with a friend. He didn't feel anything, whilst I, being simply more sensitive than him, felt a tiny bit stoned. Barely threshold. This meant it worked! I was never so happy to eat powder and not trip! The next 2 days I thought about hardly anything else than the drying shroom-extract, and how I wished to try it.

Finally, there was only an off-white powder in the dish. When scraped out, it was about a pea-sized pile of the flaky stuff. It was a monday night, which is good because tues I only have night classes. Being kinda new to psychedelics, I don't possess any paraphanelia like pipes or bongs. Don't plan to, either. I was alone at the time, just got back from classes. My curiousity was such however that I just couldn't resist. I put all the powder in one of those aluminum foil pipes I hastily made for the occasion. I held a lighter underneath and started sucking. The smoke was incredibly thick, not so much hot, and lasted only like 2 seconds, then all I got was air. I immediatly lay back on my bed. The smoke was easy to hold. Almost immediatly I felt the effects. It was as if an immense wave of relaxation hit me. At that point I closed my eyes, sinking into the incredible depth of my bed. It felt like a womb, warm and caring. I exhaled. My body was starting to glow with some sort of energy.

After 2-3 minutes in the ever-deeper womb, visuals came. Somehow the womb had become my home, and I was exploring the evolution of man. I would see those 2D Inca patterns, think about all the things I knew about the culture and picture them with that info. Some patterns looked like abstract drawings, those were from Africa, some looked like lines and runes, those are in early Europe, etc. This was very fun, but the super fast come-on was nauseating. My body was buzzing with incredible energy. This all happend in the first 5 minutes. Still 'living' in the womb, I focused my attention to my room. I 'felt' it occupying the 3D space around me, and I imagined how my 5 roommates were all doing their various chores. Then my imaging focused outside, where my mind was searching out all the living things. It was as if the mushroom was revealing to me all the life that is around us, even in a lousy city. Visuals were becoming 3D, adding relief to them.

At this point I decided to open my eyes. At first glance my room looked normal. I immediately sat up and looked at the watch to find out how long I spent with closed eyes. 5 minutes popped out as the instanteneous calculation, but when I looked twice I found out that I had no clue what those numbers meant. Then I had no clue what I was doing. This is followed by the weirdest feeling and total visual loss. In retrospect I think I blacked out simply because I sat up so abruptly. Again I open my eyes, and my room is totally warped. The walls are flowing like a cubic ocean, and I enjoy simply *awesome* visuals of people, mountains growing out of my wastebasket and a bouncing banana repeatedly merging with the fans of the ceiling fan. There was one of those thought-loops so common to high doses: I was thinking how just a second before I'd sat up and nothing was altered, that's because I need fantasy to see stuff, example just a second before I'd sat up and nothing was altered, that's because ..

This is also were my memory goes fuzzy. I remember watching my room for ages, while my self-awareness was constantly shrinking. The last thing I recall is lying back down on the bed, with almost no difference between open and closed eyes. My brain was just not working anymore, associations not made. I resurfaced about 20 minutes later. That was the weirdest part: I just opened my eyes and everything was back to normal. Obviously there were still minor visuals, like beautiful patterns everywhere and extra digits with the watch, but I was able to comprehend myself and my surroundings again. This went away quick too, and after an hour I was left with nothing but a that deep feeling of suggestability. It was as if anything that wanted could enter my deepest subconscience through my wide-open eyes. My pupils were as big as I'd ever seen them. This part lasted longer than from ingestion. I was going to meet for the first time with my ex girlfriend since we broke up, and being open helped a lot. She had not accepted the breakup, but my condition somehow allowed me to see all the reasons clearly and convey them to her. In the end we parted again as friends, but this time both of us meant it. The next day I awoke refreshed and ready for the world.

Conclusions: Smoking pure Psilocybin felt very much like I've heard people describe DMT, with a slower comeup. Although my dose was definitely too high, I have gained from it even more than from a normal trip. That reminds me: Has anyone ever noticed how the real realizations only come in the part after the trip? How would it be to take only very low doses of shrooms every few hours for a few days?

I should add that no words can describe the intensity and personal significance of the experience.



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30mg of Vaporized Psilocybe cubensis Extract Effective
http://dreamtime.kosmicjourney.org/site/page.php?id=18
(as Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 7:11 pm - The Drool Donkey Forums)
Here it is straight from Elfington Heights:



The elves said that was a dime in the background and that they harvested approximately 4 times that amount from the 28 grams of fungus.

They (elves) impress me so.

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For matters pressing the elves induced me into what they described as a 30mg vaporized crystal experience. It came on about 1 minute 30 seconds into the induction. The initial rush was more profound than vaporized DMT experiences but not as intense as 5meodmt vaporized. The visual aspect was that of DMT and maybe even a bit more, hard to say, there was much going on.

Auditory and physical symptoms persisted throughout the 20 minute peaking experience. The come down was much like the downside of oral administration or fungi. After effects persisted for about 30 - 40 minutes after peak.

All in all the elves have stumbled upon something wonderful and overall overwhleming.

Cheers.



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Internet Mushroom Grower's Survey
Both Psilocin and Psilocybin are present in mushrooms, but Psilocybin gets converted to Psilocin in your gut, and Psilocin in a mushroom is present in trace quantities only. Psilocin is an unstable molecule and breaks down in the mushroom almost immediately; but that doesn't matter much since there is so much more Psilocybin in mushrooms than Psilocin (99:1 ratio depending on species). Psilocybin /also/ breaks down in mushrooms, but only when exposed to excessive heat; it's best to keep fresh mushies cool. Note that freezing wet mushrooms will destroy the cell walls of the shroom and oxidize the Psilocybin so don't put them in the freezer: the 'fridge is just fine.

Due to the thermal breakdown of Psilocybin, mushrooms should never be dried with heat. Also, there have been continued discrepencies in fresh mushroom trips vs. dry mushroom trips, even if the shrooms have been dried without heat. The trip differences may be due to mental preconception or it may be a molecular change over time, who knows.

Also due to the thermal breakdown of Psilocybin, smoking mushrooms does not work. Making tea, however, does work;

Psilocybin does not break down at the temperature of simmering water (100 C). Some use lemon juice (or other acidic juice) in the tea to aid in extraction of Psilocybin; however, Psilocybin is very water soluble and this is unnecessary. (If anyone has more information about the molecular nature of the active ingredients, please let me know.)


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Excerpt from: Extend Shelf Life of Mushroom...
Li Xiong, Department of Food Science, Pennsylvania State University, August 1st, 2000
http://www.msu.edu/~xiongli/Project/FDS410/FDS410.html
2.3 Effects of Environment on the Quality of Fresh Mushrooms
Based on the information in previous section, it is easy to find that the environmental factors affecting the quality of fresh mushrooms include temperature and gases.

Temperature temperature affect the quality of fresh mushrooms by its effect on enzyme activity, water content and microbial growth.

The chemical reactions happening in mushroom is controlled by the enzyme activity, which is affected by the temperature. Approximately, the activity is doubled or halved for each 10°C rise or fall in temperature respectively. Expectably, lower the temperature, slower those reactions would proceed.

Water content is also affected by temperature and the water content of tissue is directly associated with the turgidity of the fresh mushrooms.

Gases Obviously we need package fresh mushroom to prevent damage due to insects, dust and other natural obstacles. Moreover, we package fresh mushroom in order to extend its shelf life. To reach such objective, several factors must be taken into consideration in designing appropriate packaging:

Oxygen
Oxygen concentration should be maintained as low as possible from the point of lower level of chemical reaction and biochemical reaction resulted from polyphenol oxidase contained in the produce being packaged. In addition, lower level of oxygen could restrain the respiration rate of produce. However, from the point of food safety imposed by microorganism, especially those brought by anaerobe such as Clostridium botulinum, we should maintain aerobic condition. Otherwise, the anaerobic microorganism would grow and produce toxin, which leads to serious food safety problem.
Carbon Dioxide
Carbon dioxide is needed in Modified Atmosphere Packaging (MAP) to restrain the chemical and biochemical reactions resulted from enzyme in the produce being packaged. In addition, the respiration rate of produce could be prevented or slowed by controlling the carbon dioxide concentration within the package. However, if CO2 concentration was above the tolerance level of the produce, anaerobic respiration would be stimulated and off-odor and off-flavor compounds would be produced. Moreover, carbon dioxide could inhibit Gram-negative, aerobic spoilage bacteria such as Pseudomonas spp (Blakistone, 1998) and it also has some direct anti-microbial effects (Zagory, 1994).
Water Vapor
Water vapor is the unavoidable result of respiration of produce. If the water vapor level was too high and couldn’t flow out of the package, condensation would happen, resulting in wet surface of the produce. This means favored growing condition for microorganism. Conversely, if we didn’t maintain enough moisture level inside the package (i.e. too low relative humidity), fresh produce would loss moisture from its tissue, which in turn results in high weight loss.

Promises of it being like an extended trip that can surpass N,N-DMT with a slower comeup though still fast. This replaces the promise I believed bufotenin to have, though that has faded with me...

Relevant reading

 

[greenmeanies]

as stated before, 4-HO indoles are highly susceptible to oxidization/polymerization because a phenolic hydroxy group is fairly acidic-- and the 4-HO group is conveniently located right next to the basic nitrogen which will accept a proton. so psilocin is a self-salt zwitterion in water, with a negative charge on oxygen and a positive charge on nitrogen. even without water to solvate psilocin, it is highly probable that the pure chemical is dominated by intramolecular bonding.

the problem with vaporizing things is, free HO groups or ionic molecular interactions will raise the boiling point. for psilocin the boiling point is probably higher than the temperature that oxygen will quickly destroy the molecule.

psilocybin is not that much better. even though the free HO is protected by a phosphate group, there is still a self-salt interaction between the acidic OPO3 and the basic nitrogen.

4-AcO-DMT is the only one that makes sense to attempt vaporization, as the phenol is protected by a relatively nonpolar ester group that should allow a low boiling point of the free base. unfortunately, 4-AcO-DMT is usually seen as the fumarate salt, which will have a much higher boiling point than the free base. and a basic environment can quickly break apart phenolic esters, getting us back to square one with psilocin.

 

[Shakti]

I might have some relatively pure psilocybin to play with soon. I'll see if it's vaporizable.

 

[greenmeanies]

by relatively pure, you mean it will be an extraction of mush? i'm very curious to see your results.

 

[johannes kreisler]

wow! I wanna do this!
I'll soon have more shrooms than I can use for myself and wanted (to try) to extract em just for storage. (extr. works with ethanol too, right?)
imagine this stuff being smokeable...

 

[Solipsis]

Yes that theory is clear greenmushies, but remember that IV psilocybin is about 6 times as potent as oral administration so vaporization is probably around that potency as well. Even if vaporizing destroys like 90% you can still achieve effects if your technique is reasonable and you did the extraction right!
I mean are we really going to label the successful tries as a placebo effect? I wish someone would do a blind test, or double blind test even...

 

[greenmeanies]

johannes: most shroom extract are not for storage, because 100% dry fungal matter is the best for long-term potency retention.

water extract degrades quickly, but is great for ingestion (shroom tea)
95% ethanol extract degrades slowly, but has a high alcohol content making it poor for ingestion unless you used a ton of mush to begin with (essentially shroom tincture)
absolute methanol extract is ideal if you have a vacuum apparatus to remove the solvent from the goodies without boiling too long. this is the route most labs would use to determine alkaloid content of plant matter. there is also evidence that methanol can denature the phosphorylase enzymes, "freezing" the ratio of psilocybin/psilocin from shifting. however any introduction of water will allow the conversion. the result from evaporating the methanol is supposedly a hi potency "shroom liqueur" that could be pure enough to vaporise, but i've never seen the stuff personally

 

[Mitchi]

Bump!

Did anyone try it out??

 

[Enter Galactic]

So earlier I smoked some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate. I put just a few mgs on a little bit of dried spearmint leaves in a one hitter. Then covered that with another layer of dried spearmint. Held it in for about 10 seconds. The effects weren't strong but I'm definitely above baseline. I will try more sometime to see if I can confirm that it works.

 

[cuddlefish*]

I had smoked several tryptamines and phenethylamines regardless of their status as salts or bases and figured that psilocin/cybin should be no different. Seriously, 2-cb Hbr? Smoked it. 5-MeO DMT Hcl? Smoked it. All with good effects.

I Performed a 70% everclear extraction on some cubes and evaporated down to a 'tar'-like goo just for this purpose. I tried several methods of smoking, with a lighter, with a torch, spread very thin in little pancakes, whatever.

No effects.

Eating the 'goo' was fully active.

What's it all mean? I'm no doctor....

 

[Azeogen]

vaporizing psilocin

hi every one. I know... I said i was gonna "get a job" , "stop" doing drugs and believing in time-wave zero...
but here i am with a big dish of crystalline alkaloids extracted from mushies. ill spare the incriminating details... and well ... the fact is i wouldn't have this stuff if i hadn't witnessed -first hand- my friend prepare and vaporize the stuff a while back. it did get him high out of his mind. there are even documents elsewhere on the net that confirm others have done it. just google psilocin extraction.

so... I'll let ya'll know how VAPORIZING THE FREEBASE (not "smoking" the goddamned fumarate salt) effects me.

employment be damned. i don't do drugs. I AM DRUGS! %)

 

[OpanRanger30]

Don't you feel the least bit like a junkie freebasing anything? Why not just stick to physically ingesting the illegal drugs instead of smoking them the same way as crack?

i am a junkie and i also smoke crack. i also enjoy mushrooms on occasion, and discussing silly exotic ROAs on drug forums. is there something wrong with that?

 

[anonymoux]

as stated before, 4-HO indoles are highly susceptible to oxidization/polymerization because a phenolic hydroxy group is fairly acidic-- and the 4-HO group is conveniently located right next to the basic nitrogen which will accept a proton. so psilocin is a self-salt zwitterion in water, with a negative charge on oxygen and a positive charge on nitrogen. even without water to solvate psilocin, it is highly probable that the pure chemical is dominated by intramolecular bonding.

the problem with vaporizing things is, free HO groups or ionic molecular interactions will raise the boiling point. for psilocin the boiling point is probably higher than the temperature that oxygen will quickly destroy the molecule.

psilocybin is not that much better. even though the free HO is protected by a phosphate group, there is still a self-salt interaction between the acidic OPO3 and the basic nitrogen.

4-AcO-DMT is the only one that makes sense to attempt vaporization, as the phenol is protected by a relatively nonpolar ester group that should allow a low boiling point of the free base. unfortunately, 4-AcO-DMT is usually seen as the fumarate salt, which will have a much higher boiling point than the free base. and a basic environment can quickly break apart phenolic esters, getting us back to square one with psilocin.

I was thinking about this problem and thought of a solution. Why not feeding the vaporizer with NO2 or N2 instead of O2 containing air? It would be easy to do with some slightly modified divers equipment. NO2 would probably be intense however.

For N2 all you need is really a candle

EDIT: N2 + CO2 should really not bee a problem if all you need is one toke.

EDIT2: This might bee why some people get effect from smoking mushrooms. If the flame don't get in direct contact with the mushrooms but all "air" that passes the mushrooms is really exhaust from the lighter their shouldn't bee any oxidation taking place.

 

[EarthBounded]

As a spin-off of the "Smoking Mushrooms?" thread I was interested if anyone knew the results of vaporising (pure or near-pure)Psilocin or Psilocybin in much the same way that DMT (closely related chemically) is vaporized. Because Psilocin and Psilocybin are present in such small amounts in relationship to the bulk mass of the mushrooms, it seems that if a purified source were vaporized (NOT burned) like DMT is, that perhaps the argument over 'smoked mushrooms' could be eliminated by targeting the source - the active chemicals. Whether the chemicals would be a salt or base (the Psilocin, anyway) im not quite sure, but any input from experience or from the pure theory of the situation would be greatly appreciated.

If you are actually interested in doing this, I would have no idea why but here is how...

Make a tincture of mushrooms with ethanol, evaporate until it is almost a goo. Then freebase it with a straw hitting it with as little heat as possible, Vaporizing should work just fine on a low temp.

I have heard this is crazier than DMT. I wouldn't mess around with smoking mushrooms until more study's have been done.