Opioids Fluoxetine for Tramadol withdrawl

[Zonxx]

I wouldn't describe codeine this way - it has a dose ceiling of about 400mg and redosing is much less effective than initial dosing. If you "eat codeine like candy" it will stop working pretty quickly. It's self-limiting that way. The same is not true of kratom which you can redose all day and keep getting increased effects from.

codeine will not stop working dude. they always help me inbetween dose and have been life-saver in some situations. Now i'm tempted to make some lean, great. but for you saying it will stop, they say 400 is the ceiling but there are plenty of BL'ers that have and do take more than that

 

[Zonxx]

e fact that codeine is "an actual opiate" doesn't magically make it more dangerous, it's not heroin, codeine is the weakest opiate in existence and has a 400mg ceiling dose plus redosing is simply not effective because the CYP2D6 enzyme is already metabolising the initial dose. Codeine itself is inactive and needs to metabolised. So if your body won't metabolise redoses effectively, the redose does nothing. Your assertion that you can "eat codeine like candy" is therefore false.

dude. codeine is morphine. heroin turns into morphine one across the BBB, therfore codeine is heroin what are you talking about, it can be just as addictive as dope maybe take long but in thel ong term? def.

at higher doses take an anti-histamine to avoid unwanted effects cause by the metabolisation (you'll get warm/hot and VERY ithchy, god i still get itchy once in awhile after i 2 years, i feel like i've gain like 10-15 pound idk ,turn it into muscle

 

[Wilson Wilson]

codeine will not stop working dude. they always help me inbetween dose and have been life-saver in some situations. Now i'm tempted to make some lean, great. but for you saying it will stop, they say 400 is the ceiling but there are plenty of BL'ers that have and do take more than that

The precise dose ceiling differs between individuals but for the vast majority of people codeine does have a dose ceiling that you notice and hit pretty quickly. If this doesn't apply to you, and if redosing works fine for you, then you are probably an ultrarapid metaboliser. But this is a minority of the population.

dude. codeine is morphine. heroin turns into morphine one across the BBB, therfore codeine is heroin what are you talking about, it can be just as addictive as dope maybe take long but in thel ong term? def.

at higher doses take an anti-histamine to avoid unwanted effects cause by the metabolisation (you'll get warm/hot and VERY ithchy, god i still get itchy once in awhile after i 2 years, i feel like i've gain like 10-15 pound idk ,turn it into muscle

Codeine is not morphine. Codeine is metabolised into morphine by the CYP2D6 enzyme. Roughly 20% of a codeine dose is metabolised into morphine, and morphine in turn has roughly 20% bioavailability when taken orally. So the overall BA of codeine is very very low. Then it has a dose ceiling of about 400mg in the vast majority of users, the exception being those who are ultrarapid metabolisers.

Any opioid will be addictive in the long-term, kratom included.

 

[Zonxx]

The precise dose ceiling differs between individuals but for the vast majority of people codeine does have a dose ceiling that you notice and hit pretty quickly. If this doesn't apply to you, and if redosing works fine for you, then you are probably an ultrarapid metaboliser. But this is a minority of the population.



Codeine is not morphine. Codeine is metabolised into morphine by the CYP2D6 enzyme. Roughly 20% of a codeine dose is metabolised into morphine, and morphine in turn has roughly 20% bioavailability when taken orally. So the overall BA of codeine is very very low. Then it has a dose ceiling of about 400mg in the vast majority of users, the exception being those who are ultrarapid metabolisers.

Any opioid will be addictive in the long-term, kratom included.

30mg of codeine = 5mg morphine, idk how you can say its now the same thing, yes its a different drug with slightly differing side effects, BUT in terms of strength comparison they seem to be exactly equivilent taking proper doses but you may be correct about me metabolising fast, i used to be heavy, and without any drugs or anything of the sort, everyone accused me of using but i wasn't and dropped 120 pounds over a year, and its remained that way, i still eat when i smoke crack, i eat on stims im wondering what to make rn, so somethings weird there. In a more specific note, the effects of codeine are all from metabolising into morphine which causes all the effects that it does, 400mg /day isn't accurate its more like 400/6hrs test it, you'll see m8

 

[thefirm]

not even 20%, the majority of the effect is from C6G, I can distinguish a codeine and morphine high easily, they can take more, I don't believe in an exact ceilling, it's impossible to say that everyhuman can take maximum x mg till he stops metabolising some of it in morphine. idk in which day I am OP, I stopped counting but considering when I had my last work day is when I stopped then I'm in week 2, beginning of week 2 like, the brain zaps will persist, but I already feel them weaker and I feel them the most when I wake up or extreme cold hits me outside, so I usually when I wake up I have a cig I eat I take my multivitamins and magnezium and an ibuprofen and listen to music by standing down or even just looking into the void till my brain wakes up a little, after that they are less noticeable, as time goes by you will feel them less and less to the extent that you will say hey a brain zap and just go along with your day. now in the beginning there are brain zaps that make you feel like you are on the verge of convuslsions so I never took my chance with that and always stood in a safe haven aka the house, now if you have to work that's another story, I can't manage in withdrawal by the lunch break I already roam 5-6 pharmacies to get at least 500mgs... well no my county has run out of it, idk how I still had some, but threw it away.

yesterday one of my mates, early early mates, dad died, he was an alcoholic, holding down a job but a daily drinker for decades, made me so angry and tearful, it made me relive my dad dying of the same thing at 13-14, his dad dying, and thinking of me reaching that age and just dying like that made me throw out my lyrica,alprazolam,clonazepam. they are long gone with the trash car. it's not that I'm not gonna die, that's the only thing that you are guaranteed in your life that you are gonna die, but I made a vow to myself that's not gonna be the case of dying. I sleep in phases, tremors here and there, I shit ok now, I eat ok, will try to have more movement but I'm still fearful of a benzo withdrawal creeping up. it did not, I'm completely sober, this is the third day of no comfort meds only the vitamins and if I have a headache ibuprofen, but max 2 times a day. I had such a shock yesterday and a reliving of everything that it made me stronger in a way, there is noone stopping you from this cycle. I already missed a few very good opportunities because of them and lots of good ones. but that's it, I wanted oxy,tramadol,morphine blabla? I did, you pay for everything anyway, nothing is free, it doesn't have to get material,so you either fight it or you stay on it, I realised that for people like me there is no between, I can't take a responsible once every 3 mont habit of using just like that, so shit a man has to do what he is meant to. sorry for the rant anyway, I split the two so you can just see my opinion on the zaps and codeine in the pharagraph above.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

As far as I am concerned codeine and kratom are pretty much on the same level of strength. The fact that codeine is "an actual opiate" doesn't magically make it more dangerous, it's not heroin, codeine is the weakest opiate in existence and has a 400mg ceiling dose plus redosing is simply not effective because the CYP2D6 enzyme is already metabolising the initial dose. Codeine itself is inactive and needs to metabolised. So if your body won't metabolise redoses effectively, the redose does nothing. Your assertion that you can "eat codeine like candy" is therefore false.

As for kratom's ceiling dose, I looked it up and found a few articles and forum posts, but none of them told me exactly where the ceiling dose is supposed to be. Meanwhile I've seen people use high doses like 20g of kratom per day or sometimes even more. I can certainly redose kratom and easily feel an increased effect. And the primary active ingredient in the kratom plant, mitragynine, is directly a u-opioid receptor agonist, so it makes sense that any ceiling effect would be much higher than a prodrug like codeine which relies on one enzyme to metabolise it into something active.

I am not trying to say codeine is "safer" than kratom per se, only that I don't see why you need to demonise codeine as if it's far stronger than it is. Codeine and kratom are both weak drugs that are perfectly good options for tapering opioids. I'm not saying one is "better" than the other. Incidentally, in my country codeine is OTC because it's so weak (ironically kratom is technically illegal... which is stupid).

I'm not demonizing codeine, but in this case kratom is the better option. If you were actually familiar with taking kratom, you would know there is a ceiling effect. At a certain dose, it makes you feel sick and it doesn't make you feel high. Increasing the dose only increases side effects.

That's actually why people can't just take a ton of kratom and get away with it. It's a plant that needs to be respected or you'll suffer nausea and vomiting from overindulging.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

30mg of codeine = 5mg morphine

What's your source for this? According to Wikipedia's equianalgesic page, codeine is only 1/10th as strong as oral morphine. So the actual equivalency would be 100mg codeine = 10mg oral morphine. So please tell me how you are working out that 30mg codeine = 5mg morphine?

Equianalgesic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

idk how you can say its now the same thing, yes its a different drug with slightly differing side effects, BUT in terms of strength comparison they seem to be exactly equivilent taking proper doses

They are literally different drugs. Morphine is an active metabolite of codeine but if you genuinely believe they're identical you either have very little experience with morphine or are lucky enough to be an ultrarapid metaboliser. Oral morphine is far stronger than codeine for most users since only a small percentage of codeine is metabolised into morphine unless you're an ultrarapid metaboliser. If codeine was as strong as morphine I'd love it trust me, considering codeine is OTC here...

you may be correct about me metabolising fast

Unless you are exaggerating then you are definitely an ultrarapid metaboliser of codeine. Lucky fucker

400mg /day isn't accurate its more like 400/6hrs

This is just details. Ultimately we are in agreement that there is a limit you have to wait out in order for codeine redoses to be effective, yes? Whether it's a day or six hours, you still cannot "eat it like candy" as the other member put it.

I can distinguish a codeine and morphine high easily, they can take more, I don't believe in an exact ceilling, it's impossible to say that everyhuman can take maximum x mg till he stops metabolising some of it in morphine.

Yeah morphine and codeine are totally different for me. Completely different experience. Such a small amount of codeine gets metabolised into morphine that pure morphine is far superior and "cleaner" too. More euphoria as well by far.

I agree there is no exact ceiling that can apply to every single individual, it varies, but 400mg is the general guideline.

If you were actually familiar with taking kratom, you would know there is a ceiling effect.

I am literally on kratom right now. I made some caps earlier and have redosed it twice today and the high keeps getting stronger. It's a nice drug. I use kratom and codeine pretty much interchangeably myself. I'd put the potency of kratom actually beyond codeine, somewhere between codeine and DHC. And the extracts I'd put at closer to morphine.

Either way my point is you seem to be suggesting kratom does not require the same concerns as codeine simply because it's not a "real opiate." This is nonsense. Anything that is an opioid agonist has addictive potential and kratom is every bit as addictive as codeine, possibly more so.

 

[Zonxx]

wilson, you know I'VE PERSONALLY WRITTEN SOME PIECES OF WIKIPEDIA, anyone can do it , i am not intending to sound argumentive.

in equivilent doses theyre the same thing, i'll try to find the source that dictates 30=5 for you, but don't rely on wikipedia homie, it's not all correct, anyone can edit the pages , ANYONE so beware of misleading information.

but lol. little experience with morphine i'll attach a pic of my daily medication.
saying all this with love

This is just details. Ultimately we are in agreement that there is a limit you have to wait out in order for codeine redoses to be effective, yes?

and yes we agree! 100% the time varies from person to person ofcourse!

Unless you are exaggerating then you are definitely an ultrarapid metaboliser of codeine. Lucky fucker

not lucky. i just ate 360mg of addy, and hardly feel ampd right now

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

What's your source for this? According to Wikipedia's equianalgesic page, codeine is only 1/10th as strong as oral morphine. So the actual equivalency would be 100mg codeine = 10mg oral morphine. So please tell me how you are working out that 30mg codeine = 5mg morphine?

Equianalgesic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They are literally different drugs. Morphine is an active metabolite of codeine but if you genuinely believe they're identical you either have very little experience with morphine or are lucky enough to be an ultrarapid metaboliser. Oral morphine is far stronger than codeine for most users since only a small percentage of codeine is metabolised into morphine unless you're an ultrarapid metaboliser. If codeine was as strong as morphine I'd love it trust me, considering codeine is OTC here...



Unless you are exaggerating then you are definitely an ultrarapid metaboliser of codeine. Lucky fucker



This is just details. Ultimately we are in agreement that there is a limit you have to wait out in order for codeine redoses to be effective, yes? Whether it's a day or six hours, you still cannot "eat it like candy" as the other member put it.



Yeah morphine and codeine are totally different for me. Completely different experience. Such a small amount of codeine gets metabolised into morphine that pure morphine is far superior and "cleaner" too. More euphoria as well by far.

I agree there is no exact ceiling that can apply to every single individual, it varies, but 400mg is the general guideline.



I am literally on kratom right now. I made some caps earlier and have redosed it twice today and the high keeps getting stronger. It's a nice drug. I use kratom and codeine pretty much interchangeably myself. I'd put the potency of kratom actually beyond codeine, somewhere between codeine and DHC. And the extracts I'd put at closer to morphine.

Either way my point is you seem to be suggesting kratom does not require the same concerns as codeine simply because it's not a "real opiate." This is nonsense. Anything that is an opioid agonist has addictive potential and kratom is every bit as addictive as codeine, possibly more so.

I have never ever said kratom doesn't have the same concerns as any opiate. The link I gave OP is to another thread here where I was giving someone advice on how to take kratom. I make it clear that kratom is not an opiate, but it acts like one and will give you withdrawal similar to opiates if you quit cold turkey after prolonged use. I only recommend kratom to help taper, then get off of it.

You just want to argue about this and make claims that's not true. It's annoying at this point.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

wilson, you know I'VE PERSONALLY WRITTEN SOME PIECES OF WIKIPEDIA, anyone can do it , i am not intending to sound argumentive.

in equivilent doses theyre the same thing, i'll try to find the source that dictates 30=5 for you, but don't rely on wikipedia homie, it's not all correct, anyone can edit the pages , ANYONE so beware of misleading information.

Yes and anyone can write a post on BL too. But on Wikipedia you have to actually give a source. I can find another opioid equivalence chart or link the source given on Wiki if you have such a problem with it, but I have not seen anything claiming codeine is as potent as you say it is. I have seen NHS documents that state the same or in fact actually some that say codeine is even weaker, requiring 150mg for 10mg oral morphine equivalence. Obviously these are all estimates as it differs by individual. But you seem to be exaggerating the average potency of codeine.

and yes we agree! 100% the time varies from person to person ofcourse!

Good good, we agree on what my main point always was! And yes ofc it differs by individual body chemistry as all drugs do.

not lucky. i just ate 360mg of addy, and hardly feel ampd right now

Man that is some tolerance, I'd be having a fucking panic attack... I take 10mg Dexedrine and feel stimmed enough these days.

I have never ever said kratom doesn't have the same concerns as any opiate. The link I gave OP is to another thread here where I was giving someone advice on how to take kratom. I make it clear that kratom is not an opiate, but it acts like one and will give you withdrawal similar to opiates if you quit cold turkey after prolonged use. I only recommend kratom to help taper, then get off of it.

You just want to argue about this and make claims that's not true. It's annoying at this point.

I'm confused as to what your point is supposed to be then. Why do you believe codeine to be more dangerous than kratom? They are both weak opioids with roughly the same addiction potential. Kratom is not magically safe due to not being a "real opiate" but you seem to agree with that in this comment so... what's your basis for thinking kratom is "better"?

And what claim have I made that is untrue?

 

[Zonxx]

I have never ever said kratom doesn't have the same concerns as any opiate. The link I gave OP is to another thread here where I was giving someone advice on how to take kratom. I make it clear that kratom is not an opiate, but it acts like one and will give you withdrawal similar to opiates if you quit cold turkey after prolonged use. I only recommend kratom to help taper, then get off of it.

You just want to argue about this and make claims that's not true. It's annoying at this point.

i don't think he intended to be argumentative

 

[Wilson Wilson]

i don't think he intended to be argumentative

Thank you. I honestly haven't. I'm not lashing out at anyone or getting angry etc. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of OP's argument.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

i don't think he intended to be argumentative

Maybe not, but it's still annoying. haha

Some people just seem to keep things going for no reason.

 

[Zonxx]

Yes and anyone can write a post on BL too. But on Wikipedia you have to actually give a source. I can find another opioid equivalence chart or link the source given on Wiki if you have such a problem with it, but I have not seen anything claiming codeine is as potent as you say it is. I have seen NHS documents that state the same or in fact actually some that say codeine is even weaker, requiring 150mg for 10mg oral morphine equivalence. Obviously these are all estimates as it differs by individual. But you seem to be exaggerating the average potency of codeine.



Good good, we agree on what my main point always was! And yes ofc it differs by individual body chemistry as all drugs do.



Man that is some tolerance, I'd be having a fucking panic attack... I take 10mg Dexedrine and feel stimmed enough these days.

are you serious? shit. i mean 30 will give me a liiiiiiitle boost buuuut i need a minimum of 120 to get anything out of them at all which i try to maintain every 2-4 hours with 30-90mg, I DON'T ADVISE ANYONE READING THIS TO RECREATE MY USAGE AS IT IS HIGHLY DANGEROUS AND DEADLY, YOU ARE CAUTIONED I AM TOLERANT AND A HEAVY OPIATE USER WHICH ALLOWS ME TO TAKE SUCH DOSES.

 

[Zonxx]

Maybe not, but it's still annoying. haha

Some people just seem to keep things going for no reason.

No one is on bluelight to cause trouble except for shady fox, so id like to reassure you that this is a place to share, receive help and never be judged.

 

[Zonxx]

while we're on the bluelight topic, can someone ban hezman already? dudes trying to sell morphine, i told him hes breaking the rules because ya know i can't suspend him or anything, so just a thought (yes im buggin everyone to mod me )

 

[Zonxx]

forgot to attach my meds.
1 kadian is missing though, i get 400mg/day

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Maybe not, but it's still annoying. haha

Some people just seem to keep things going for no reason.

All I am trying to do, as someone who uses both codeine and kratom, is understand your view that one is inherently safer than the other. This is an HR forum so when someone claims one drug is safer than another I like to see those claims substantiated with evidence. That's not too much to ask imo.

are you serious? shit. i mean 30 will give me a liiiiiiitle boost buuuut i need a minimum of 120 to get anything out of them at all which i try to maintain every 2-4 hours with 30-90mg, I DON'T ADVISE ANYONE READING THIS TO RECREATE MY USAGE AS IT IS HIGHLY DANGEROUS AND DEADLY, YOU ARE CAUTIONED I AM TOLERANT AND A HEAVY OPIATE USER WHICH ALLOWS ME TO TAKE SUCH DOSES.

My stim tolerance is super low naturally. I honestly just take 5mg dex most days and am fine. I only use higher doses if I take opiates. Even then I will do 20mg max. This is Dexedrine though not Adderall. Dex is more potent. But yeah my stim tolerance is just low as fuck and this is despite the fact I've had a script for about 5 years or so now haha.

Don't be too jealous though my opiate tolerance is bad these days. I'd love a low opiate tolerance again.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

dudes trying to sell morphine

Please report the post or PM in which he does this to the mods (using the report button on the post) and it will be dealt with swiftly.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

All I am trying to do, as someone who uses both codeine and kratom, is understand your view that one is inherently safer than the other. This is an HR forum so when someone claims one drug is safer than another I like to see those claims substantiated with evidence. That's not too much to ask imo.



My stim tolerance is super low naturally. I honestly just take 5mg dex most days and am fine. I only use higher doses if I take opiates. Even then I will do 20mg max. This is Dexedrine though not Adderall. Dex is more potent. But yeah my stim tolerance is just low as fuck and this is despite the fact I've had a script for about 5 years or so now haha.

Don't be too jealous though my opiate tolerance is bad these days. I'd love a low opiate tolerance again.

If you take kratom as much as you claim then you would know there is a certain point you don't get high anymore. If you keep upping your dose, nausea and vomiting will happen.

Don't try to make it seem like I'm not concerned about harm reduction. I have pointed out kratom gives opiate-like withdrawal. As far as I know, people haven't OD'd and died from kratom, but they do from real opiates. Suggesting codeine over kratom is ridiculous. Plus, codeine is easier to take which makes it easier to abuse by just popping a few pills.