First Non-Oral Only Cycle

HereIam said:
Yo Hunterdog
Sounding great my man The only thing that concerns me., besides your BP ( you are checking that regular, you promised) .yeah I'm a worrier. Tthe prostate deal. I'm sure it's only BPH, but how fricken annoying must that be! Do you have access to avodart, Proscar (finasteride) and the like? If you do, please take a little. Start small if you like, break a tab of proscar into 4 pieces. That's roughly 1.25mg per dose or close to a propecia size dose. If that doesn't work, break it next time into 3 pieces.I'd like to fing the right dose to shrink the BPH, while minimizing the sides of the cure.I'd hate to kill that morning glory of yours. Your girlfriend would kill me.Dumb question, but describe your 6 meals a bit, maybe I can help with some suggestions there. One more dumb question, you know what you are doing with the HCG right?I'm gonna assume you know the protocol. Otherwise, as you may have noticed, I have a tendency to get a little...long winded. So I'll leave that alone unless you ask.
Now, lets hear the good stuff. The stuff that makes this all so fun.
What's the decrease in BF
Whats the increase in strength
Lets get some old Vs new measurements,
Tell us about the new women hitting on you.
Tell us about that obnoxious jerk ( no, not me)in the movie theater you made shut the hell up.
Cmon bro, the fun stuff!!! lets have some
P.S. ask LaSambra about any oily skin issues, I think he has a very cool remedy that I didn't know about
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As luck would have it, I had a Doctor appointment this morning and the BP was 118/69. I alos got that wonderful experience of "The Exam". The prostate is enlarged................but has been for many, many years. However, there are no nodules and my PSA is right around 1. Just a pain in the ass thing.

Tell me if you will, what is the Proscar for? Prostate? I thought it was to prevent hair loss. To date, I've never had any hair loss issues but I'm aware that could change at any moment.

I'm not doing the Avodart but have started on Flomax. It is already helping.
 
Gotta love The Exam...did he buy you dinner first?
Proscar actually is a medication used to treat BPH It was a side effect that started the whole hair thing. They are both the same med called Finasteride but 5mg is used for BPH, and 1mg to prevent hair loss. Avodart and Proscar are 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors. reserved for somewhat more difficult prostate issues. Flomax is an alpha blocker. a somewhat quicker acting, firstline of defense if you will. I hope that clears it up a bit. I'm trying not to be so damn wordy Great news on the BP, that's almost to good. WTF No stress in your life?
take care
 
Yo Victor,
I gotta give it up to you on the Proviron.
Looks like I was wrong on that one.
I'm glad Hunter listened to you my man.
I truly haven't looked at proviron in a loooong time.
I'm gonna take another look-see.
Stay gold Brother.
 
HereIam said:
Gotta love The Exam...did he buy you dinner first?
Proscar actually is a medication used to treat BPH It was a side effect that started the whole hair thing. They are both the same med called Finasteride but 5mg is used for BPH, and 1mg to prevent hair loss. Avodart and Proscar are 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors. reserved for somewhat more difficult prostate issues. Flomax is an alpha blocker. a somewhat quicker acting, firstline of defense if you will. I hope that clears it up a bit. I'm trying not to be so damn wordy Great news on the BP, that's almost to good. WTF No stress in your life?
take care
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I'm just hoping that was REALLY his finger and the ooze I felt was KY. I feel so used. Always wondered why he is so happy to see me when I walk in. And what's with the cigarette after the exam. Huh. Just wondering here.
 
Hunter, what about your WEIGHT gains? Or more importantly, what is the mirror telling you? (a scale is just a number, its what you see in the mirror that really matters). Did you get the classic dianabol moonface? (i.e. did your face look a bit swollen?)

Pay attention to the scale now that you stopped the dbol though, and see if you actually DROP a few pounds (bloat running off), as thats pretty common.
 
HereIam said:
OK...You got me thinking LSN, very good comments
I have a little experience with Nordic, and if memory serves ( It was 6-7 years ago ) Much less pain and great results., and I hate standard prop simply because of the pain. I also despise the eod shooting schedule, waaay to much maintenance. You seem to be in a hurry to see results, slow down man, it's a journey, not a race. I have a lot of experience with suspension products,again an eod schedule, but also, fast results and good clearance times. maybe these are more your flavor. I have no experience with the other one you mentioned
Also, yeah, you are weird going to orals later in your life, or maybe you are burned out from all of those high maintenance products you used earlier. Now, it;s more important than ever that you watch your liver values like a hawk. I'll explain in a second.
As far as orals go however, who can argue with anavar and Turinabol? I also love these 2 at my stage in this journey. My only concern with these is the obvious 17aa issue. Get your blood work done brother. Personally, I look for Primobolan first for it's hepatic safety. I keep the hairloss in check with Nizoral, believe it or not, thats all I need for that. My faves at this stage in my life are anavar, primo, test, and HGH ( my only high maintenance issue, but so worth it ). For the 58 year old dude, I would have Anavar,andriol, turinibal and Primobolan ( injectible Primo if possible ) with his test base at the top of the list. Not all of them at the same time, Pick two with the test. Well. actually the best by far at his age would be HGH, but thats big money and maintenance so it might not be feasible for him,
Finally, I'm not going to keep defending sust, I don't give a sh*t. It just works great for me at any dose. Maybe I'm just lucky, don't care. Interesting story, I have an anti aging doc that runs my HRT. 3 decades of gear has permanently shut me down. I OK with that, I played the game for many years and had lots of fun. Plus I have a decent base when I decide to go on cycle, and PCT is a whole lot easier. Anyway I started HRT on test cyp, had wild fluctuations, luckily, blood work and begging convinced my doc to let me try Sust, I get that online compounded at a great pharmacy. My blood work is now perfect. all in high range of normal, all the time. Anecdotal evidence for sure, but it's mine so I like it. I shoot every 10 days, which is very nice for me. So I'm not discussing Sust again, you don't like it, you don't use it. For me, I doubt that will ever do any steroid eod again. The only time eod was worth it for me was with Tren, or actually converted fina, now that was fun. Tren and Winny had me very strong and ripped. That was the summer of Tom!! best summer ever!!! Bye guys
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Im of the firm belief the hepatoxicity of 17aa's is heavily hyped (part of the whole anti-steroid propaganda). Waaaay back in the day, the government pulled the arms of scientists to literally say something along the lines of "there is not sufficient evidence to suggest steroids increase muscle mass", yet theyd say this at the same time as prescribing said steroids to AIDS patients for muscle wasting and the like. So whyd they say this? Pressure from the government.

Ive known many bro's on the boards who have had liver values done before, during, and after cycles involving 17aa's and not a single one of them ever reported any statistically relevant difference in liver values. Im sure theyd be bad in really large dosages (im talking absurdly large), and in scientific studies they tend to give the animals absurdly large dosages of things to ensure they get statistically significant results.

With that said however, I never ever run a cycle (even if it didint have orals, but mine always have) without taking a liver protectorant, in my case, the Liv-52 skittles (have you seen the research on this stuff?? Its pretty incredible). I even take Liv-52 when im NOT on cycle. Liv-52 makes my list of must have ancillaries, even if your not using any orals, hell, even if you dont use steroids, our livers have to deal with so much crap in this synthetic world we live in.

Im really not worried about liver damage. I dont even drink alcohol, ever, and I mean ever, not even new years. Id be far more afraid of the impact on my liver of one night out at the bar, than I would be of an 8 week anavar cycle.


Primo is too risky, counterfeit wise, for me to pursue. There was a source in Paraguay who was offering Schering Primo's, the old school ones (clear amp with green writing) a few years back for $5.50 a pop. I had him send me some to get lab tested, they turned out to contain 36mg/ml of Test prop, but their packaging ripoffs were almost perfectly done, they even had the boxes and pamphlets, the only tell-tale sign they were counterfeits was that the Schering logo on the box had slightly pixelated edges on it, something that Schering would never let out of the factory, so that was the first sign they were counterfeits (well actually, the PRICE was the first sign), otherwise they looked PERFECTLY identical. At least the counterfeitters put a real steroid in it (this time), and at a dose that one could easily mistake for actually being methenolone acetate 100mg/ml (actually, theyd probably get BETTER results from the 36mg/ml test prop). However theres stories of counterfeits containing all sorts of nasty nasty shit, and id say in the name of harm reduction, staying away from highly counterfeitted steroid types is probably a wise idea unless you 110% trust your life to your source, and even then, theres a good chance he himself doesnt even know hes selling counterfeits.


As to HGH being too expensive, its also highly counterfeitted. But guess what bud? HGH is irrelevant these days. Ever heard of CJC-1295? If not, look it up. No need for HGH anymore. CJC-1295 is some incredible shit, not only is it a marvelous feat of bioengineering (makes me proud to be Canadian since its a Canadian invention!), its also alot cheaper than HGH to use, and its gray-market legal :)

You can also get even more bang for your buck from CJC-1295 by stacking with an oral somatostatin inhibitor such as Huperzine-A or Galantamine (which inhibit acetylcholinesterase which increases acetylcholine which inhibits somatostatin which is an inhibitor of GH release in response to secretagogues which is how CJC-1295 works). You can boost that even more, by stacking in Niacin, which will lower serum FFA's which is well known to sensitize the pituitary to secretagogues (its believed at least partly, that abnormally high serum triglyceride levels found in people with obesity are one of the reasons they have compromised GH systems). These two simple, and cheap, oral agents you can take in combination with CJC-1295, have the potential to significantly boost its effects, saving you the money of having to use a larger CJC-1295 dosage.

Id highly recommend the poster consider CJC-1295 at somepoint in the future. Not just for his growth, but for his health, at his age, GH replacement therapy can yield all sorts of really incredible benefits.
 
Liv-52 is just like skittles! Why do they taste so great! lol.

I dunno about the liver value thing- especially if you look at peeps running some of the prohormones (m1t and superdrol) and Anadrol. Again its overhyped but I would not consider drinking on these substances. Get some GBH/GBL if you wanna party on cycle.
 
Damn LaSambra...I can't believe this. The possibility of a deep exchange of thoughts on this forum. You and I have a lot of the same experiences and points of view on some things.
I'm running out to train someone, and myself eventually, but I'll be back in a few hours to hammer your effing post ( JOKING)
But I will give me 2 cents on CJ-1295, liver toxity, liv-52, ( I use Tyler's instead, I'm certain you know what that is, and prolly tells you where I spend my time, when away from BL ) and maybe, just maybe, a little on counterfeit drugs. But I'm wondering, if we should move some of this, and invite Victor, and P-Mo, and Smyth to help. I think it would rock this forum!! So far, those are the only ones that seem to have a real clue. Plus I get the feeling that most of these posts are waaay over Hunterdog's head, and we have been hijacking this thread.
I'm late, I'm out
 
Yeah, this thread is all over the place and we covered almost everything aside from what we had for breakfast this morning.

One note on the CJC-1295.

I used it for a prolonged period of time in conjunction with GHRP-6. The problem with the CJC is that I have found it to be impossible to get the REAL deal. CJC-1295 is extremely fragile to handle and package, it also costs an arm and a leg to make. REAL CJC-1295 has the drug affinity complex (DAC). Most all CJC-1295 being currently sold is really GRF(1-29), even though they will provide you with a print of the correct sequence. I've used it and it did yield results. I was pinning 3X a day but I was happy with it. I still don't think it compares to real HGH 191aa. I'd be willing to wager and say there is more fake CJC out there than HGH.

This is by far the most detailed read on the subject of CJC/GHRP.... http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f.../37381-dats-cjc-1295-ghrp-6-basic-guides.html

Props to Dat for doing such an amazing job on the subject.

/V
 
I LOVE Saturday Gym Sessions! No hurry and plenty of time to get in 4 sets of every exercise AND a warm up set too boot.

Okay....................the strength gains are still climbing. Set new personal bests at Incline Bench Press, Dips (Isn't it weird that there's NEVER a line at the Dip Station or the Pull Up Station?), Machine Pec Fly's and 2 of the 4 Triceps exercises. The weights just felt light and were so easy to move! By order of magnitude, I am probably up 15% - 20% in weights being lifted from where I was prior to the start of the cycle. More so with the Pec Flys.

INCLINE BENCH PRESS

Warm up set.
10 X 135
10 X 155
10 X 175
9 X 195

WEIGHTED DIPS

10 x body weight only
10 X Plus 25 lbs
10 X Plus 35 lbs
10 X Plus 45 lbs (God I LOVE dips!) What a burn. What a Pump!

MACHINE PEC FLYS

Warm-Up set.
10 X 160lbs
10 X 175 lbs
10 X 190 lbs
8 X 205 lbs

SKULL CRUSHERS

10 X 50 lbs
10 X 60 lbs
10 X 70 lbs
8 X 70 lbs

BENCH DIPS (Heels on one bench and palms on another, body suspended between)

15 X Body only
12 X Plus 45 lb Plate
12 X Plus 45 lb Plate
10 X Plus 45 lb Plate

CABLE TRICEPS EXTENSIONS W/ ROPE HANDLE
Triceps REALLY burning by this point
10 X 120 lbs
10 X 135 lbs
10 X 150 lbs
10 X 165 lbs

FLAT BENCH DUMBELL PRESS

10 X 60 lbs
10 X 65 lbs
10 X 70 lbs
8 X 80 lbs

By the time I left the gym I could barely raise my arms.

Holy Crap! I can see why guys get so addicted to running cycles. This is only two weeks into the injectable portion of the cycle and laready the strength gains are off the chart.

Someone asked about bloat? Yeah, I think I did have a bit of bloat from the Dbol and was a bit constipated as well. HATE that feeling.

Also, I haven't had this much spring in my step and fire in my eye in decades. You young guys may laugh, but trust me, time takes it's toll on every body system and libido is not imune from the attack of time. The increases in libido are REALLY kicking in too. Good thing I've got the sexiest woman on earth as a girlfriend.................god what a woman!

Will post more later.

REALLY Happy thus far.
 
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Hunterdog said:
Also, I haven't had this much spring in my step and fire in my eye in decades.
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I was gonna ask you about that. Seeing as your an older guy, you should be VERY perceptive to the psychological effects of boosting your hormones up.

Now you know why people seek out Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). I dont say it increases your length of life, but it definetly increases the QUALITY of your life.


BTW, just to insert this into your mind. You can EASILY "botch" your testosterone levels and have a doctor give you a hormone panel and be able to get prescribed hormone replacement testosterone therapy for the rest of your life!! There was a doctor named Dr. John (www.allthingsmale.com) who used to post on Anabolic Review (now Steroid.com), he is an HRT specialist and wrote several articles on AR guiding steroid users on how to fake low testosterone levels to get their doctors to prescribe them hormone replacement therapy. Its very easy to do.... just something for you to think about ;)
 
***** A few more observations. *****

I'm not sure if it's just my imagination or not but I really think I've got more aggressive beard growth.................and the part which really strikes me as strange is that it SEEMS like the hair is coarser, (larger diameter) than is usually the case.

And one other that just hit me this morning while I was getting ready, as heavy as I've been lifting, I have zero, and I do mean ZERO DOMS. None what so ever! This part really is different because I'm sure that we ALL tend to judge the effectiveness of a previous workout by the intensity of the muscle soreness we experience. There have been days when my legs were so sore after an intense leg day that I could barely climb stairs and I would think; "What a great workout!" But yesterday I just killed my Pecs and Triceps and there isn't even a hint of soreness. Maybe the weirdest part is that I sorta miss it.

Onward and upward.

As to HRT, My Dr. has been doing pellet implants every three months for years. While they are okay, they don't really take my breath away. Or were you all talking about another method of HRT? (I do 10 pellets of bioidentical test every 12 weeks).

There has been a lot of discussion about HGH and the benefits. I would LOVE to go that route but OMG that shit is expensive!

Will continue to post as to my observations while on cycle.
 
Victor!!
You stole my thunder on the CJC-1295, damn, almost verbatim. You must know your stuff-lol
I gotta get here earlier.
anyway, keeping me on track a little...Hunterdog That was my fav post of yours so far.
I LOVE to hear about the pumps, the strength, the sex, and especially that wonderful feeling of well being. Man should bottle that feeling...Oh yeah..THEY DO!! ( that and a lot of work)
Now on to training advice. I'm a little confused, I thought you were doing the press-pull thing.
Instead you absolutely destroyed your chest. Ya gotta grow from that, but make sure you fully recover before hitting that again. Only thing I would have done different here is substituted decline bench for one of your dip sets. But that's just me. Where I can help is is to remind you to keep mixing it up, keep your muscles guessing and in shock and awe baby.
I'll give you a quick example of some things I swap in and out of my training on my poor, glorious 52" chest each time. I do use all of your stuff as well. so great workout my man.
1. speed bench
2. close grip work
3. JM Presses
4 Change the rest intervals
5. Push ups with feet on stability ball and dumbbell presses balanced on stabilty ball
6 Change up between Barbells and Dumbbells
7. Cable flys
8. Dumbbell flys
That's all I can think of for now, but you get the idea, for me, it keeps the training more interesting, and more fun as well.
 
Hunter,
Not even a hint of soreness? Damn bro, the juice has kicked in.
Change the routine up again next time, don't let your muscles get used to a routine.
I'm kinda like you, I like a little soreness, but only a little.
I believe that to much soreness leaves to much damage to the muscle to repair AND add a little to the muscle. Just my stupid visualization. A little soreness leaves a little divot in my muscle area, that I fill in with my diet, rest, and um, supplementation, that ends up with a little extra on top of where that divot was. That's not science for sure, but for some reason, it works for me. I do a lot of visualization, especially during my training, but def all the time, it keeps me going, keeps me growing. I use visualization for everything that's important to me.
 
I'd also recomend doing the pulldowns last. I almost always do a drop set on tricep pull downs at the end of my session. Whilst your at the cable pulldown you can alternate between pulldowns and over the head extensions.

As for CJC I've seen it listed in a couple of places as either with DAC or without but I'd be afraid of paying the extra for the DAC just because how the fuck you going to test that you didn't just get non-DAC stuff. Much better to just deal with pinning 2-3 times a day and saving some cash on the substance. Your only sub-qing slin pins anyways....

I've not got the cash for HGH or CJC at the moment but thinking of picking up some GHRP-6 anyways to help my appitite and using it maybe one day on one day off PWO.
 
p-mo said:
I've not got the cash for HGH or CJC at the moment but thinking of picking up some GHRP-6 anyways to help my appitite and using it maybe one day on one day off PWO.
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The increase in appetite does not last that long, I believe by week 3 that side was gone. The appetite increase is nothing like the EQ hunger pains, so don't expect to have the munchies 24/7.

Like you said with getting real CJC, ya never know. I've seen distributors provide prints of proper sequences and what not...but even if it is real, how much did it break down in the mail? How has it been kept stored? Who knows.

And from what I understand, it can begin to break down real fast when in the mail. The stuff is very difficult to handle correctly. Pharm grade HGH hands down would be the way to go...toss some IGF in there as well and you got some real magic headed your way. Some T3 would also work well with the HGH/IGF. Oh, and if I recall correctly...I think GHRP-6 has to be pinned 3X daily for full effect (I may be mistaken though, I can't remember off the top of my head)

/V
 
Yer the bump of GH released by GHRP-6 only last 3-4 hours. I was hoping that by only using it once E2D that I wouldn't desensitise myself too much to the hunger effect.
 
p-mo said:
Yer the bump of GH released by GHRP-6 only last 3-4 hours. I was hoping that by only using it once E2D that I wouldn't desensitise myself too much to the hunger effect.
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The hunger side isn't really all that intense. Like I said, it's nothing like EQ's hunger pains. I wish I had that appetite all year long.

Some of the guys I spoke with who use/d GHRP-6 didn't all get those hunger aches. A few of us noticed a small increase in appetite, but nothing to really boast about. If/when you try it, let us know if you get those hunger pains/appetite increase.

/V
 
Maybe I'll just hold out and put the money I would've spent on some EQ instead. Just GHRP is super cheap and was just going to order some along with some IGF. Looks like with my current financial situation though I'd probably be best just starting a cycle March-ish and then I can afford some decent pepts for PCT/bridging.
 
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