Finally quitting kratom

[Thinkwithportals]

I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this, as I've only used this forum once, but I browse fairly regularly. So my apologies if it is in the wrong place, let me know and I will remove/repost it.

A little background, I'm a 24 year old female, about 105 lbs. About 2 years ago I had a nasty methadone habit, I didn't need it, I used recreationally and it got out of control. I'd had enough, and after a 14 day attempt at cold turkey, I gave up. Until I found kratom. The original plan was to stay on it for about a month and slowly taper and jump. Low and behold, I continued using for a slew of reasons that don't matter now.
I set a date to quit, November 1st, and I took off work until the 16th - to ensure time to properly be able to quit without stress of withdrawals at work. I have a very physically demanding job, and I've tried going to work without kratom, and I have gone home after about two hours. It's extremely uncomfortable/painful.
The last 2 months I have been doing a slow taper, I went from about 50 of the 00 capsules a day, at 5 different times. Now I am at 16 twice a day. I take Maeng da, but have switched to Sumatra/Bali as its all I could find since the ban took place. I take one dose at 6:00 am, and the next at 12:00/1:00pm (depending on how I feel) I'm no where near where I wanted to be, but im better than I was. I used to need to take it at night to sleep, but I've been forcing myself to go to bed and just wake up when I wake up, and push through it until 6:00am.

I have ordered Rhodiola, black seed oil, ashwaghanda, and Phenibut. I also bought magnesium, St Johns wort, valerian root, DHEA, and chamomile.

The Phenbit is going to be regulated by my mom/dad, who I'm staying with during this period, and only given one or two times if it becomes too much to handle, though I am in the mindset that I am going to tough it out. I put myself in this mess, I'm well aware that there's a price to pay and taking phenibut to mask the symptoms could lead to a trade off addiction, much like what happened with kratom.
I don't know much about DHEA, I read one article that claimed it COULD help. But I need to do more research.

My question is, are there any other supplements I should have? I have read about immodium, but that scares me, as I know myself very well, and anything that completely takes the pain away will be too tempting, especially when I'm writhing in pain with crippling anxiety.
I also don't know exactly how, or what to use the already stated supplements for? (Symptom wise)
I know the ashwaghanda and Rhodiola can be made into a tea, but I don't know how much and the searches I've done yield vague results. Black seed oil is a toss up, but it has many health benefits regardless, so I'm planning to take it daily anyway.

I'm also wondering if 16 days is enough to get through the worst of it and be physically capable of returning to work? It's right before thanksgiving, and I'm terrified I won't be able to return. I groom dogs, so there's a lot of factors about my work that require me to be 100%. I know everyone is different, and a lot of it is mental. I'm ready to quit, I know it won't be easy, but it doesn't take away the fear of it all. I am sorry again if this is in the wrong topic, and that it is so long, I tried not to ramble. Thank you to whoever took the time to read, I am open to any feedback/suggestions/support.

 

[w0w0mg]

Hey there friend!
I use to be addicted to Kratom myself and may be able to help you somewhat.
For me, the withdrawals from Kratom were not so bad, however the depression and anxiety were my pain issues at hand.
You seem to have a good supply of things coming your way.
I do however suggest not to use the phenibut daily because the withdrawals it are pretty nasty.
Cycle with your phenibut every other day.
Potassium will help with the RLS and aches.
Motrin is a good tool, believe it or not.
Immodium (no need to mega-dose, just use it for GI issues)
Acute Kratom withdrawals last about a week, then PAWS set in.
Light work outs help a lot too, I know it's hard but it helps those natural endorphins!

Best of luck to you, I feel your pain, but I promise you there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

PS. I was dosing over 50 grams a day!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Grab yourself some loperamide and melatonin. Low to moderate doses of loperamide will help with any GI distress during your detox. Be careful dosing the phenibut, the hangover from large doses is fucking nasty shit, worse than alcohol IME. Stay as low as possible with your dosage on that stuff.

 

[Thinkwithportals]

Just wanted to update. Has been 27 hours since my last dose. Not feeling good but also not climbing the walls. Mild restlessness but I'm able to lay completely still and ignore it. Would definitely not be able to sleep. Mild aches and a strange headache. Took St. John's wort this morning and multivitamins, drank a cup of Passion flower/chamomile tea that may have helped. Also smoked some mj, which initially escalated my anxiety so not sure how much I'm going to use that through this process.

 

[Moreaux]

Hey thinkwothportals! Kudos on your 27 hours! You've received some great advice already, I just want to add be careful with the St. John's Wort as it is a mild MAOI and can interact with a lot of stuff. If you have addiction issues I would totally stay away from the phenibut, just my opinion. Phenibut can get out of hand quickly and the withdrawals can get pretty nasty. I will update this post with a link shortly. Magnesium also helps with the physical sensations, and it's help with relax before bed as does l-theanine. In the grand schemes of withdrawal kratom is not too extreme. If you are concerned about PAWS consider stopping the St. John's Wort and switching 5-htp. Please keep updating us and keep up the great work!

 

[Thinkwithportals]

Almost 36 hours in. Noticing restlessness waves get stronger and then dissipate. But it's gradually getting worse. Still able to cope, but rather annoying and very uncomfortable. Drinking ashwaghanda tea currently, took some valerian root.. hoping it eases the rls/restlessness throughout my arms/neck/lower back. Managed a walk earlier in the day, and successfully took the trash out even though my bones hurt in the cold.
Continually telling myself to power through it, don't know how well I'm doing. I'm freezing on and off, though it's mild and is cured by laying by the fire.
Hoping to be out of the thick of it in 3-4 days. Trying to stay positive about it and tell myself that since day 1 wasn't hell really - that I'll be good to go within a week. I have had worse withdrawals waking up at 3am when I've dosed 10 hours prior. Really weird how this plant works.

 

[Thinkwithportals]

Also wanted to say thank you for all the support, it helps tremendously I am picking up l-theanine tomorrow! I also bought some Imodium. Don't have too much gi stress right now, in fact I haven't had to use the bathroom at all.

 

[Moreaux]

I'm embarrassed to admit this but I recently got off kratom. I took it for surgery and ended up taking 80+ grams a day. I was using a teaspoon to measure 2g and my benzo brain kicked in and I thought I had been using a tablespoon (5g) and it got ugly quick. I did this for close to six months, recently quit. Sadly I ordered huge quantities of it in preparation for the ban and will keep them for pain relief if either my husband or I are in a situation where we need pain relief (i.e. Surgery, broken bone, something extreme where hard pain meds would be prescribed). I didn't find withdrawal too bad and was only really bothered with restless legs and sleeping issues. I was very irritable as well. I think kratom withdrawal affects people differently - hopefully yours stay relatively benign and is over quickly.

ETA: I tried to taper one week and wasn't very successful so I just stopped taking it during the day and would dose before bed to get sleep. After a few days I kept decrease the before bed dose and then jumped at 20g.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Nice Moreaux, how are you feel about it all now? Are you out of the woods yet? Nothing to be ashamed of my friend, though I can totally understand any feeling you might have about it. Keep up the good work. You know I know you have a heart of gold

 

[Thinkwithportals]

Wanted to say thank you for sharing your experience Moreaux, as it definitely gives me much needed inspiration. Congrats on being clean

Last night was horrendous. Around 5am I was an absolute mess, I wanted to jump out of my skin. I slept maybe an hour between 5/10 minute incriments. I ended up taking the Imodium (10mgs above the recommended dose) and it allowed me a solid 20 minutes of sleep. Overall I don't feel it was worth it, today I am feeling the effects of it in my stomach hardcore. I'm angry at myself for seeking relief and not powering though. Nights are the worst. Today started off really bad, I didn't want to move but laying on the couch severely heightened my restlessness. I am taking all my vitamins and drinking as much water as I can choke down. I managed a banana and some homemade soup last night. Today I ate half a sausage.
I am about to hop in a scalding hot shower and force myself to go on a walk. It's 73 degrees (really odd for November here) and I'm going to push myself to walk until I can't take it. Then I'm planning to take a hot bath.

I keep reminding myself this isn't forever, and I'm trying so hard to find joy in the little things. I find myself on the verge of tears randomly, but I notice when I laugh, it's real and actually makes me feel alive, as corny as that sounds.
I'm fighting the urge to give in to the thought that this is going to last forever, because that's how it feels right now. But I know it's my own fault, and this is the price I pay, and I'm trying to embrace the whole process.

As of 11 minutes ago I'm at the 48 hour mark

 

[Thinkwithportals]

Sorry if I am updating this too much, I am using it to track my progress and it helps to document this stuff.
Today went well I suppose! I actually felt alright, pushed myself to help my fiancé clean his car, and laid in the sun for an hour. I got pretty worn out and really lethargic towards dinner but forced myself to cook salmon and eat some. Noticing aches and very very heavy limbs that makes small tasks really hard. Took a walk and made it 20 minutes before turning back.
Feeling anxiety about tonight but also becoming excited over kicking this habit!
I was actually able to nap, just an hour - but I laid down and just fell asleep. Not very restful, but felt relaxed for a solid ten minutes after waking which was nice.
Once again I want to thank you all for reading if you do

 

[Moreaux]

Nice Moreaux, how are you feel about it all now? Are you out of the woods yet? Nothing to be ashamed of my friend, though I can totally understand any feeling you might have about it. Keep up the good work. You know I know you have a heart of gold

I feel much better than expected. I have bouts of restless legs and moodiness, and sometimes my thoughts are fuzzy but all in all I got out relatively unscathed. I didn't really find pleasure in the kratom, when I inadvertently switch the tablespoon for the teaspoon the dose was double what I had been taking so it made me fell really nauseous, shaky, and generally gross.

I did find that once I got used to the higher dose I thought it was acting as an antidepressant, and as I wasn't impaired I stayed on it. After a few months I noticed my hair was falling out really badly and all my blood tests were relatively normal which made me examine my diet and exposure to toxins. I began suspecting kratom and queried the Internet and saw that a handful of users also experienced this side effect, but their doses were very high (60g+), which made me weigh out the tablespoon and realize I'm doing so much more than I had intended, and then I started cutting back.

I've been off it for a week and it's tolerable during the day. I've been exercising when I get the restless legs and have been thinking about trying to run to really wear myself out so I sleep better. I am looking forward to better sleep as I can't stay a sleep for more than two hours at a time it seems, and really looking forward to not being so irritable.

Getting off it really does make me wonder about the antidepressant effects, is it a strong enough SSRI or is it just dampening emotions/pain as opiates tend to do? Since stopping my OCD is going back to previous levels. I noticed in the last month of using kratom my OCD was intensifying which seemed odd as my OCD responds very well to SSRI. I will say that I have taken Prozac, very briefly as a teenager, Zoloft, Effexor, and a tricyclics as an adult and stopping the kratom hasn't felt like stopping and SSRI or other antidepressant.

At any rate, it feels good to get back to normal. It's been a very educational year for me and I think the mental relapse before surgery and my experience with kratom has helped me learn more about my addiction and how to recognize warning signs better, and overall has made my recovery stronger. I will also add that I know I was very lucky and I will not let my guard down again in the future.

Sorry if I am updating this too much, I am using it to track my progress and it helps to document this stuff.
Today went well I suppose! I actually felt alright, pushed myself to help my fiancé clean his car, and laid in the sun for an hour. I got pretty worn out and really lethargic towards dinner but forced myself to cook salmon and eat some. Noticing aches and very very heavy limbs that makes small tasks really hard. Took a walk and made it 20 minutes before turning back.
Feeling anxiety about tonight but also becoming excited over kicking this habit!
I was actually able to nap, just an hour - but I laid down and just fell asleep. Not very restful, but felt relaxed for a solid ten minutes after waking which was nice.
Once again I want to thank you all for reading if you do

The updates are great and encouraged! You're doing fantastic and handling everything very well. Sleep deprivation is one of the hardest symptoms for most people to manage and it seems that you have acknowledged and accepted the sleep issues without creating mornanxiety for yourself. Also making yourself exercise is huge since exercise is so very critical in recovery.

The dead tired feeling that comes from stopping kratom is really difficult to manage. I had anfewndaysbwherebinfelt like I could literally sleep on my feet. It's really an odd dynamic to be so tired and not sleep soundly. I know the minute I would lay down I felt like I had electricity surging through my legs which then prompted anxiety and essentially nixed any peaceful sleep.

You're very fortunate to be able to nap. When I was an active alcoholic I would often sleep most of the day off and on to recover so now I have extreme guilt if I am trying to sleep and the sun is still shining. I have only been able to nap once in the two and a half years I have been off of alcohol, and that one time was when I used the tablespoon to measure kratom for the first time - just knocked me out. I hope everything continues to improve for you. Please do keep us updated. Take care!

 

[Thinkwithportals]

Thank you for taking the time to respond congrats on 2 1/ 2 years off alcohol! Thats fantastic! I've seen alcohol addiction first hand because my uncle was an alcoholic for 5 years and I remember when my parents took him in during the period he stopped. Nasty stuff so congratulations! :D and yeah, the sleep deprivation is what caused me to break and take the Imodium the first night, I am suuuuper excited to say that I took nothing but chamomile tea/passion flower/magnesium supplements yesterday around 730. and I was able to sleep from 11-530AM. I woke up once or twice, but I did sleep. I'm honestly really baffled, as I woke up feeling baseline. Once I got up and walked around the chills and aches came back, - my back hurts really bad, but I also slept on the couch. So far this morning I feel really foggy, unmotivated, and my shoulders/neck are tingling with restlessness but not to a degree that I am writhing on the floor.
I'm really honestly surprised and a bit wary. Like I'm waiting for everything to come back around and hit me full force. I plan to continue the exercise today, and all the supplements, crossing my fingers that sleep will happen again tonight as it really makes me feel better.
Thank you for sharing your experience as it's helped me with realizing that quitting is possible, and I don't have to take Kratom every day to function, - the mental part is what's going to hit me next I think. The routine of taking Kratom still itches at me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Moreaux -

That sounds like a pretty standard kratom kick! It makes sense it would have some SNRI or SSRI type properties, because whenever I would take it, the effects of its active alkaloids would remind me of tramadol a bit, which has SNRI properties I believe. Glad to hear you are on the mend! What about some good old fashion Tiger Balm and hot baths with Epsom salts for the RLS? A jonesing junky's dream, right ​

 

[Moreaux]

Moreaux -

That sounds like a pretty standard kratom kick! It makes sense it would have some SNRI or SSRI type properties, because whenever I would take it, the effects of its active alkaloids would remind me of tramadol a bit, which has SNRI properties I believe. Glad to hear you are on the mend! What about some good old fashion Tiger Balm and hot baths with Epsom salts for the RLS? A jonesing junky's dream, right ​

That's a great idea. I'm kind of surprised I didn't think of that. I'm in the process of restoring my bathroom as it's eight years old so I wanted to replace all the grouting and caulk, and clean the shower stall frame thoroughly and then seal everything well that it has slipped my mind about actually using it during this time. I have a jacuzzi tub which I feel in general is much more trouble than it's worth, but I may clean the jets tonight and then use them, and soak in magnesium after I'm done with the jets. I've only used the jets twice in the few years we've lived here but they're ridiculously powerful (though still more trouble than it's worth lol).

 

[Moreaux]

I will add in rereading the thread I probably make kratom withdrawal seem much easier than it really is. For those of you that do t know me, I spent two years in absolute hell from being cut off of Xanax cold turkey - it did a lot of nerve damage and it also really skewed my perspective on the nature of pain and discomfort. My situation is by no means typical and I can tune out a lot of symptoms so don't feel bad if you're having a difficult time with it.

 

[Thinkwithportals]

So past the 72 hour mark! Feeling really off today, more than the last two days. My body is just uncomfortable enough that it makes this 10x as hard. I have absolute zero motivation, my head feels really heavy, and it's just overall a kind of emotional day.
My physical symptoms improved around 12:00, when I took an epsom salt bath and took some magnesium. But then the anxiety and despondency set in pretty hard.
Remembering that it's only been 3 days, and I was expecting some sort of depression/anxiety.
Trying to figure out how to deal with it.

 

[hands of stone]

I am an ex heroin and methadone addict (15 years) and clean now for 10. I used Kratom daily for a year about an ounce a day every day. I quit cold turkey and was what I can only describe as "dope sick" for 7 weeks. Muscle and leg cramps, diahria , profuse sweats, headache, anxiety and depression and I have never experienced withdrawal that intense for that long ever, not even methadone which is a long withdrawal process. Utter misery, not as intense as heroine cold turkey but bad enough to just want to give up as my quality of life was so bad and no end seemed in sight.My theory is getting off Kratom is a lot harder if you have been a heavy opiate user in the past.I stayed off of it for 2 months and was still miserable with anxiety so caved just to have ONE day of not feeling like crap.That's my story I hope yours turns out better.

 

[Thinkwithportals]

So.... yesterday was really crappy. I slept off and on very uncomfortably. I woke up every half hour/hour and couldn't stop switching positions - as nothing was comfortable. I don't know if I'm used to the restlessness so it just feels like complete discomfort at this point. I'm very cold, but not heavy like I was yesterday morning (yet)
I didn't work out much yesterday do to lack of motivation all around. I believe it's because my fiancé was at work all day, and I found that I am way more motivated when he's around. Which I need to get over that, I know, because this is also a personal journey. I took a short walk before bed that didn't seem to help much. I managed to go to the store and pick up something I needed, and that was absolutely terrible. The mental fog I encountered trying to maneuver through all the isles made me feel like I was a baby trying to walk and failing miserably.
This morning at 6:00am I took 200mgs of the phenibut, because I plan to do as much exercising as I can without overworking myself. I also have some work and insurance related things to take care of today, I was suppose to do it yesterday but nothing of worth got done yesterday, lol.
This will be the only time I use it this week. I allotted myself 2 times of using it when absolutely needed. I'm aware of my addictive mindset, and feel as if I am in control. The point of all this was to quit altering substances completely, so I'm ready to dump the stuff down the toilet if the monkey on my back starts getting at me to take more of it.
I'm having a really hard time being proud of myself, as I've only made it three days and Im trying to get my positive mindset up and rolling again. Hopefully yesterday was just a bad day, and I'm going to approach today as a new one, and take it minute by minute. Today at 1:00 will be 4 days, three more days until a week! I'm really hoping for improvements with a few of the symptoms I'm experiencing.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Exercise directly before bed actually is unskillful sleep hygiene. Try and spend the two hours before you rest your head on the pillow and close your eyes to drift off to sleep away from a) computer/cell phone/tablet/electronics screens, b) the TV and c) exercise. If you try to give yourself an hour or two buffer between screen time/exercise and when you go to sleep, you will rest much easier.

Good luck!