Blowmonkey
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^^ Some really great advice.
Final of the GHB/1,4-B/GBL FAQ.
- Thread starter apollo
- Start date
xtcxtc
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apollo
i bow before you.
greatest FAQ anywhere ever.
dear john, 27/05/02
to recap what transpired including timing.
take drink of G and leave nearly immediately for dreams. takes maybe 8 to 10 minutes to get there incl wait for taxi. after, i guess, around 10 mins ( not more than 15 )
queenie and a couple of the other girls ask me if i am ok to which i respond "sure fine" but apparently i was not as queenie describes my eyes widening in apparent shock at the girls spoke or approached me.
queenie gave me a gentle kiss on the lips, which i remember and within 1 minute i was collapsing and gasping for breath. horrible sound apparently maybe made worse by cold and flem in my lungs.
a couple of chinese staff of mine take me out to corridor where i am very pale, sweating, gasping for breath, bubbling foam from mouth, and convulsing ( described as similar to epileptic fit ). i guess they have me sitting on floor supported on both sides whilst michelle tries to stick finger down throat to induce vomiting.
then, or later, whilst they have me lying in street greg w ( and rod ) try to get them to lie me on my side but too many people are panicking. they ask for water from one of the girlie bars but were ignored ( i had serious gasping for breath a couple of years ago in b/kok in the deep sleep situation but when i drank a little water it stopped ).
they take me to hospital in taxi and i guess the rest you know as much as i.
brain did not seem to be functioning normally the next day in terms of misreading, mishearing or misremembering but this was mild and maybe more hypochrondia than anything else ( it was there though ).
may add more later.
alan
does the above make the panic around me a little more understandable ??
as i understand it now michelle, nori and queenie approached nit to ask what i had taken. michelle insisted she do the talking as nori was so distraught she realised a fight might ensue. michelle says she was the only one to speak to nit but michelle is very feisty. she knew the hospital would want/need to know what i had taken.
from Dr, J. W. Simon
Well you certainly had a major fit. The decreased cognitive function the next day was probably due to a post-ictal state. Have you fully recovered yet? If you ever have another fit we do an MRI brain scan to exclude an early brain tumour (unmasked by the hypoxaemic effects of GABA). Or perhaps you would like to do it now? As I said one swallow does not make a summer but two will definitely label you as epileptic. I believe this fit was provoked by a combination of factors including a respiratory tract infection + GABA +/- contaminants.
I repeat you were deeply unconscious and death could have occurred in an unsupervised place by a) aspiration of vomit b) profound respiratory depression.
Please repeal your instructions to everyone NOT to take you to hospital if it happens again. Please teach those around you correct management of the unconscious patient. Please desist from taking any more 'stuff'.
i would still prefer not to be taken to hospital --- is this so wrong ??
i bow before you.
greatest FAQ anywhere ever.
dear john, 27/05/02
to recap what transpired including timing.
take drink of G and leave nearly immediately for dreams. takes maybe 8 to 10 minutes to get there incl wait for taxi. after, i guess, around 10 mins ( not more than 15 )
queenie and a couple of the other girls ask me if i am ok to which i respond "sure fine" but apparently i was not as queenie describes my eyes widening in apparent shock at the girls spoke or approached me.
queenie gave me a gentle kiss on the lips, which i remember and within 1 minute i was collapsing and gasping for breath. horrible sound apparently maybe made worse by cold and flem in my lungs.
a couple of chinese staff of mine take me out to corridor where i am very pale, sweating, gasping for breath, bubbling foam from mouth, and convulsing ( described as similar to epileptic fit ). i guess they have me sitting on floor supported on both sides whilst michelle tries to stick finger down throat to induce vomiting.
then, or later, whilst they have me lying in street greg w ( and rod ) try to get them to lie me on my side but too many people are panicking. they ask for water from one of the girlie bars but were ignored ( i had serious gasping for breath a couple of years ago in b/kok in the deep sleep situation but when i drank a little water it stopped ).
they take me to hospital in taxi and i guess the rest you know as much as i.
brain did not seem to be functioning normally the next day in terms of misreading, mishearing or misremembering but this was mild and maybe more hypochrondia than anything else ( it was there though ).
may add more later.
alan
does the above make the panic around me a little more understandable ??
as i understand it now michelle, nori and queenie approached nit to ask what i had taken. michelle insisted she do the talking as nori was so distraught she realised a fight might ensue. michelle says she was the only one to speak to nit but michelle is very feisty. she knew the hospital would want/need to know what i had taken.
from Dr, J. W. Simon
Well you certainly had a major fit. The decreased cognitive function the next day was probably due to a post-ictal state. Have you fully recovered yet? If you ever have another fit we do an MRI brain scan to exclude an early brain tumour (unmasked by the hypoxaemic effects of GABA). Or perhaps you would like to do it now? As I said one swallow does not make a summer but two will definitely label you as epileptic. I believe this fit was provoked by a combination of factors including a respiratory tract infection + GABA +/- contaminants.
I repeat you were deeply unconscious and death could have occurred in an unsupervised place by a) aspiration of vomit b) profound respiratory depression.
Please repeal your instructions to everyone NOT to take you to hospital if it happens again. Please teach those around you correct management of the unconscious patient. Please desist from taking any more 'stuff'.
i would still prefer not to be taken to hospital --- is this so wrong ??
standingtruth
Bluelighter
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Good faq, a fequently asked question I've run into is, "what about in pill form?" (Some people just can't bear the taste no matter what) The only thing I know about using in pill form was one approach which had problems, which i recently posted in the Other Drug forum asking for help.
apollo
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Ok xtcxtc, unless I've read your post incorrectly what you're saying is you don't want to be taken to hospital if you overdose on GHB, despite your doctors advice, correct? (I hope so, otherwise I read it wrong)
As far as I'm concerned it's up to you. If you want to tell your friends you'd rather not be taken to hospital if you overdose, so be it. That's entirely your prerogative if you ask me.
Three things however;
1. If someone said that to me, I would try to make sure I'm not around them when they take GHB because I don't like doing things people tell me not to and there's just no way I could ever watch someone overdose and not call an ambulance.
2. Consider what your death from a GHB overdose would do for our cause here at Bluelight. There'd be an anti-GHB propaganda explosion!
3. The question begs, and maybe it's not my place to ask, but what you've said worries me slightly. Why would you risk brain damage/death rather than go to hospital?![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
As far as I'm concerned it's up to you. If you want to tell your friends you'd rather not be taken to hospital if you overdose, so be it. That's entirely your prerogative if you ask me.
Three things however;
1. If someone said that to me, I would try to make sure I'm not around them when they take GHB because I don't like doing things people tell me not to and there's just no way I could ever watch someone overdose and not call an ambulance.
2. Consider what your death from a GHB overdose would do for our cause here at Bluelight. There'd be an anti-GHB propaganda explosion!
3. The question begs, and maybe it's not my place to ask, but what you've said worries me slightly. Why would you risk brain damage/death rather than go to hospital?
bouncer
Bluelighter
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Just a few notes from a regular G-head (been doing G for over 1.5 years) ;-)
1. L-Theanine, Valium, Klonopin (long acting benzos) are the top 3 things which should be used while during G-withdrawal. Especially L-Theanine - it works wonders for anxiety, shaking, and general shitty feeling from stopping G. Opiates do work wonders for G wds, but watch out to not get hooked up on them.
2. Heroin + GHB = DEFINITE "NO-NO" combo. Yes, I knew all about it, that the depressants shouldnt be mixed. But there was a time when I was using G 24/7 and used H once. So while on H, I re-dosed G - and had terrible case of anxiety, my hands and legs started shaking, my teeth twitched - overally for over 2 hrs I was feeling like shit + at that time scared that I OD'ed depressants and might get health problems. Actually everything was OK after that time, but I will never mix strong opiates with G definitely. (I've also mixed Codeine and Ultram while using G 24/7 - no problems with those two).
3. Benzos + GHB. I've used even high amounts of Valium (up to 60mg) or Klonopin (up to 6mg) mixed with GHB - and there is no actual interaction, no additional sedation/drowsiness, no sleep problems. I tried digging some PubMed studies and it could be explained because : GHB acts on GABA(A) receptors and benzos do act, mostly, at GABA(B). I might be wrong, but all in all - this was a safe combo for me.
4. Stimulants + GHB. Fantastic combo, especially coke+GHB and meth+GHB. Gotta watch the dose carefully, cause while on stims, you might be able to take higher dose of G, but try to use no more than you normally use. The feeling of the mix is wonderful. I definitely recommend at least trying it.
5. MDMA + GHB. What can I say - MY FAVORITE combo all in all. Enhances all MDMA's effects + if you keep redosing after MDMA wores off - there is no comedown. Also, I don't get the 'MDMA depression' on days after dropping a pill - definitely due to GHB usage, because I havent used anything else differently than when I used to take MDMA alone and I used to get tuesday-wednesday blues after MDMA on weekends.
And when I've read studies on G showing its neuroprotective properties, I think that it might block MDMA's potential neurotoxicity. Or maybe it has some action on dopamine system that it prevents the dopamine flood of MDMA which is attributed to destroying receptors (via free radicals). I'd be great if some studies could be done on this combo, but I know its an utopia and would never happen.
6. Selegiline (Deprenyl) enhances GHB's euphoric effects, but in my case blocks the 'empathy' part of the high (hard to explain, but G doesn't feel MDMA-like while on Selegiline treatment). Another good thing is the dopamine rebound is less harsh/much smoother.
7. LSD + GHB = TERRIBLE combination. My friend once used both together, although he definitely took too much of G, it was one hell of a horrific scene. I've read about the same case of LSD mixed with G on erowid trip-reports with the same effects which were: constant vomiting, shaking, twitching abnormally, making garglic sounds, speaking incoherently, grinding the teeth. I was shocked through the whole time that I saw it happen - when the ambulance arrived (I was terrified that it might get even worse) - he had been given IM valium and the effects stopped gradually. Then the next day - my friend had the worst hangover, as he recalled, but no permanent health problems fortunately.
I, on the other hand, had no problems with LSD / psylocybin and regular G doses, but I definitely DON'T RECOMMEND MIXING IT - there are no benefits, only the risk of health problems.
8. GHB is a great med for opiate withdrawals and alcohol wds. I might post some studies on this subject if anyone wants. And I know one person who actually used G for his opiate wd's with great success.
Just my 2 cents...
1. L-Theanine, Valium, Klonopin (long acting benzos) are the top 3 things which should be used while during G-withdrawal. Especially L-Theanine - it works wonders for anxiety, shaking, and general shitty feeling from stopping G. Opiates do work wonders for G wds, but watch out to not get hooked up on them.
2. Heroin + GHB = DEFINITE "NO-NO" combo. Yes, I knew all about it, that the depressants shouldnt be mixed. But there was a time when I was using G 24/7 and used H once. So while on H, I re-dosed G - and had terrible case of anxiety, my hands and legs started shaking, my teeth twitched - overally for over 2 hrs I was feeling like shit + at that time scared that I OD'ed depressants and might get health problems. Actually everything was OK after that time, but I will never mix strong opiates with G definitely. (I've also mixed Codeine and Ultram while using G 24/7 - no problems with those two).
3. Benzos + GHB. I've used even high amounts of Valium (up to 60mg) or Klonopin (up to 6mg) mixed with GHB - and there is no actual interaction, no additional sedation/drowsiness, no sleep problems. I tried digging some PubMed studies and it could be explained because : GHB acts on GABA(A) receptors and benzos do act, mostly, at GABA(B). I might be wrong, but all in all - this was a safe combo for me.
4. Stimulants + GHB. Fantastic combo, especially coke+GHB and meth+GHB. Gotta watch the dose carefully, cause while on stims, you might be able to take higher dose of G, but try to use no more than you normally use. The feeling of the mix is wonderful. I definitely recommend at least trying it.
5. MDMA + GHB. What can I say - MY FAVORITE combo all in all. Enhances all MDMA's effects + if you keep redosing after MDMA wores off - there is no comedown. Also, I don't get the 'MDMA depression' on days after dropping a pill - definitely due to GHB usage, because I havent used anything else differently than when I used to take MDMA alone and I used to get tuesday-wednesday blues after MDMA on weekends.
And when I've read studies on G showing its neuroprotective properties, I think that it might block MDMA's potential neurotoxicity. Or maybe it has some action on dopamine system that it prevents the dopamine flood of MDMA which is attributed to destroying receptors (via free radicals). I'd be great if some studies could be done on this combo, but I know its an utopia and would never happen.
6. Selegiline (Deprenyl) enhances GHB's euphoric effects, but in my case blocks the 'empathy' part of the high (hard to explain, but G doesn't feel MDMA-like while on Selegiline treatment). Another good thing is the dopamine rebound is less harsh/much smoother.
7. LSD + GHB = TERRIBLE combination. My friend once used both together, although he definitely took too much of G, it was one hell of a horrific scene. I've read about the same case of LSD mixed with G on erowid trip-reports with the same effects which were: constant vomiting, shaking, twitching abnormally, making garglic sounds, speaking incoherently, grinding the teeth. I was shocked through the whole time that I saw it happen - when the ambulance arrived (I was terrified that it might get even worse) - he had been given IM valium and the effects stopped gradually. Then the next day - my friend had the worst hangover, as he recalled, but no permanent health problems fortunately.
I, on the other hand, had no problems with LSD / psylocybin and regular G doses, but I definitely DON'T RECOMMEND MIXING IT - there are no benefits, only the risk of health problems.
8. GHB is a great med for opiate withdrawals and alcohol wds. I might post some studies on this subject if anyone wants. And I know one person who actually used G for his opiate wd's with great success.
Just my 2 cents...
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bouncer
Bluelighter
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apollo said:
Since the day GHB has been invented - there is not a single case where GHB was a direct cause of someone's death. It can only happen if someone mixes GHB with alcohol or with other respiratory depressants.
I've seen a report of a person who ingested around 60 or 70 grams of GHB (thinking it was juice, unfortunately it was GHB mixed in OJ) - the person had temporary health problems like vomiting, long sleep, hangover, but no permanent ones, and he was well the next day.
question: would passing out on GHB and then choking on your own vomit be attributed solely to GHB or would you class the vomit as the cause of death???
because I would say that it does pose real threat of causing death... tho you really need to take quite a bit
... at a guess, how many mL's in a mouth-full/random-swig?
M
because I would say that it does pose real threat of causing death... tho you really need to take quite a bit
... at a guess, how many mL's in a mouth-full/random-swig?
M
apollo
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I don't think they'd separate choking on your own vomit and being comatose due to a GHB overdose in your official cause of death.
You raise a good point Maxi - far too many people like to yibber on about the lack of official deaths caused by GHB as if it's not really all that dangerous. There is a lot of capacity for falling into objects, choking on your own vomit and contraindications.
Heh, as for your last question Maxi, I'm not going to tell you why this was measured, but a mouthful of chocolate milk taken by a classmate of mine measured in at about 54mL, but it's gonna vary incredibly from person to person.
You raise a good point Maxi - far too many people like to yibber on about the lack of official deaths caused by GHB as if it's not really all that dangerous. There is a lot of capacity for falling into objects, choking on your own vomit and contraindications.
Heh, as for your last question Maxi, I'm not going to tell you why this was measured, but a mouthful of chocolate milk taken by a classmate of mine measured in at about 54mL, but it's gonna vary incredibly from person to person.
apollo... yeah, i realise that it will vary quite a bit... might have to run some of my own experiments. my guess (in my case) would have been around the 30-40mL mark.
without going into many details at the moment (kinda dont really want to even think about it still)... swim took an unmeasured swig (my bad... thought it was water, whoops!) of PURE 1,4b. It probally took about an hour to really start effecting me, then lights out for 9-10 hrs. strange point of interest.... i have ''G'd" out before by taking only a SLIGHT amount over what i should hgave taken, and it was MUCH more unpleasant than taking 5-10 times what I normally owuld have. I think it might have had someting to do with trying to fight it.... at 20+mL there really wasn't any point trying.
anyway, back to the whole vomitting thing... I somehow managed to keep myself in a sitting position for this whole time (unfortunately i was unsupervised and had left my fone at bk's ) I fully believe that if i was lying down (unsupervised) I would most likely be dead now.
Maxi
when i can be fucked, i'll write out a proper "accidental-trip-gone-terribly-wrong" report
edit: forgot to add the main point of the post
without going into many details at the moment (kinda dont really want to even think about it still)... swim took an unmeasured swig (my bad... thought it was water, whoops!) of PURE 1,4b. It probally took about an hour to really start effecting me, then lights out for 9-10 hrs. strange point of interest.... i have ''G'd" out before by taking only a SLIGHT amount over what i should hgave taken, and it was MUCH more unpleasant than taking 5-10 times what I normally owuld have. I think it might have had someting to do with trying to fight it.... at 20+mL there really wasn't any point trying.
anyway, back to the whole vomitting thing... I somehow managed to keep myself in a sitting position for this whole time (unfortunately i was unsupervised
and had left my fone at bk's ) I fully believe that if i was lying down (unsupervised) I would most likely be dead now.Maxi
when i can be fucked, i'll write out a proper "accidental-trip-gone-terribly-wrong" report
edit: forgot to add the main point of the post
Last edited:
johnnybopbop
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hi apollo.
good job, i'm printing it out right now to show some people. this is my first post in a while. incarceration does that to you. oh well
peace.
good job, i'm printing it out right now to show some people. this is my first post in a while. incarceration does that to you. oh well
peace.
SteveElektro
Bluelighter
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- Apr 8, 2002
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Re: Re: Final of the GHB/1,4-B/GBL FAQ.
Great FAQ!
It's hard to party these days without hearing some idiot's tirade against the drug, but I'm still yet to meet a rabid anti-G raver who actually knows what GHB stands for. Those who actually know about it's effects tend to be users themselves. I guess the same is true of most drugs.
It shits me that anyone could see through the media propaganda with other drugs (ie. MDMA) yet are stupid enough to believe the lies when it comes to G. The hypocrisy of anti-G ravers never ceases to amaze me.
I want a T-shirt that says 'GHB is cool'. On the back it can say 'So do me a favour and shut the fuck up'.
Now that's rocking.
Anyway, I'm off to go take G and lay shirtless on my kitchen floor making quack noises. Have fun, I know I will.
Great FAQ!
Agreed. Trouble is that so many people think that passing out on G equates to a dangerous overdose. "G'ing out" is half the fun as far as I'm concerned, true it should only be done at home, yet club/party owners/promoters who bitch and moan about GHB 'ruining the scene' should simply check their bank balances when seeking a reason why they should put up with it. The post-Earthcore email last year by it's owner is a fine example of this, the dude must have made an obsene amount off of that party, he should shut the fuck up or get out of the business.onetwothreefour said:
It's hard to party these days without hearing some idiot's tirade against the drug, but I'm still yet to meet a rabid anti-G raver who actually knows what GHB stands for. Those who actually know about it's effects tend to be users themselves. I guess the same is true of most drugs.
It shits me that anyone could see through the media propaganda with other drugs (ie. MDMA) yet are stupid enough to believe the lies when it comes to G. The hypocrisy of anti-G ravers never ceases to amaze me.
I want a T-shirt that says 'GHB is cool'. On the back it can say 'So do me a favour and shut the fuck up'.
Now that's rocking.
Anyway, I'm off to go take G and lay shirtless on my kitchen floor making quack noises. Have fun, I know I will.
I would've posted this sooner, but i wanted to get my friend's Ok first....
a friend of mine, I'll call them X, had a 'situation' on their hands when their gf accidently took 12-15mL of GBL thinking it was NaGHB.
long story -> short... an ambulance had to be called, while they were coming, she stopped breathing twice and needed to revived all is good now, but the most frustrating part was when X was in the ambulance, they asked what she had had, to which X replied "some meth and too much GHB or fantasy"
then the ambo's reply "oh, she's had a couple of eccie's?"
X repeated what he said the first time and the ambo's didn't want to listen.
kinda fucked up that paramedics are going to be that ignorant
to top off the nite, X almost got into a fist fight with another ignorant random in the hospital who was prepared to get into a fist fight because "its GBH, not GHB!"
this was about 1.5-2yrs ago, so hopefully everyone is a little bit more educated.
M
a friend of mine, I'll call them X, had a 'situation' on their hands when their gf accidently took 12-15mL of GBL thinking it was NaGHB.
long story -> short... an ambulance had to be called, while they were coming, she stopped breathing twice and needed to revived
all is good now, but the most frustrating part was when X was in the ambulance, they asked what she had had, to which X replied "some meth and too much GHB or fantasy" then the ambo's reply "oh, she's had a couple of eccie's?"
X repeated what he said the first time and the ambo's didn't want to listen.
kinda fucked up that paramedics are going to be that ignorant
to top off the nite, X almost got into a fist fight with another ignorant random in the hospital who was prepared to get into a fist fight because "its GBH, not GHB!"
this was about 1.5-2yrs ago, so hopefully everyone is a little bit more educated.
M
Blowmonkey
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Shouldn't "a lower dose" be "that dose" or "that same dose"..?
Re: Re: Re: Final of the GHB/1,4-B/GBL FAQ.
I hear ya loud and clear!!!
So many ignorant people...so little time.......
The truth is GHB could be one of the most side effect free rec drug there is if used properly.
I get angry hearing all this BS plus coupled with the fact that it is rare as hens teeth! You could buy this stuff ut of a magazine in austraia not too long ago!!!!
It is a prescrition dug in the U.S!
To all the people who have it and are giving it a bad reputation i hate u!
Been so long I dont know what it is like anymore!
The stuff that gets around oz is really like a speed bomb metaphorically speaking..1,4 BDO is a dirty sub for GHB...
SteveElektro said:
I hear ya loud and clear!!!
So many ignorant people...so little time.......
The truth is GHB could be one of the most side effect free rec drug there is if used properly.
I get angry hearing all this BS plus coupled with the fact that it is rare as hens teeth! You could buy this stuff ut of a magazine in austraia not too long ago!!!!
It is a prescrition dug in the U.S!
To all the people who have it and are giving it a bad reputation i hate u!
Been so long I dont know what it is like anymore!
The stuff that gets around oz is really like a speed bomb metaphorically speaking..1,4 BDO is a dirty sub for GHB...