film: the passion of the christ

[antinazi77]

I'M flattered - long live a christian iraq! lol I know what anti-semitic means in it's context, the point is it doesn't matter. I know more about nazi's then you, as it is the third and fourth ryches greatest asset to have FRUSTRATED christians like you! so why don't you just sign yourself up?

before a liberal comes in and ruins everything.

frizzy has a point this is in the wrong forrum, unless you want it to get the right response?

but most people will not give it to you because they want to have some lil candy friends, I could personally not give a shit if you guys like me, your religion is trying to kill us all anyway, as the apocolipse is overdue.

 

[DigitalDuality]

Re: how's your strawman

Huh?

The Christian community is always the first to stand up and bitch about the violence in movies and music.. Christian moral majority american is the reason for the majority of our censorship (well that and PC nazis)..

The fear for our kids and the violence they see on tv, in movies, in music.. EVEN if its for a higher purpose ( in other words. not violence for the sake of violence.. )

But kids of all ages are being pushed/influenced in the religious community to see this movie regardless of the violence within it.

Its fucken hypocritical. Violence is only ok, if it has God' stamp of approval.

 

[OperatesHeavyMachinery]

I'm not a Christian, but I can't wait to see this movie. I expect it to be very moving. Though I am sure I will be moved in different ways than a Christian would be.

And DD... you're just being silly to use this as a soapbox. Again, I'm not a Christian, but you're comparing the central and most vital event in a religion(whether the event was mythical or actual, not making that call here) to concerned parents scared their children are learning the wrong things from mobster movies and video games where you can kill hookers.

Yes, "Concerned Parents" trying to "Save the Children" are a typically trite group of idiots to listen to, and often buttress their fears of society's effects through religious justifications, but... get real. A movie about the pain, suffering, and brutal death of the man they believe died for them is a far cry from the "glorification of violence."

Doubt many kids would see that and decide it'd sure be cool to crucify someone. Though, you never know...

 

[Frustrated]

k

The Christian community is always the first to stand up and bitch about the violence in movies and music.. Christian moral majority american is the reason for the majority of our censorship (well that and PC nazis)..

The fear for our kids and the violence they see on tv, in movies, in music.. EVEN if its for a higher purpose ( in other words. not violence for the sake of violence.. )

hmm. I personally didn't think the Christian moral majority had much effective say on censorship beyond what they will and won't endorce with their own audience. That's fair, personal influence on market demand - but is there honestly an effective pushing movement of such behind censorship; outside of moral voice?

Violence is only ok, if it has God' stamp of approval.

Uh, yeah. but if YOU believed in such a God, and that sheer brutality is best only in depiction of the horrors of (His) word - would that honestly be "hypocritical"?

 

[DigitalDuality]

^ever been to a metal concert?? see how many people are out there trying to prevent you from going in and you need to be saved b/c of all the "violent music"?

And yeah it would be hypocritical.. they get to blame "Basketball Diaries, Marilyn Manson, and Doom the video game" for Columbine...but if i attempted to walk on water and drowned.. do you think anyone would condemn the Bible?

 

[Frustrated]

That's.. a really weird way of putting it

and no, I haven't been approached like that at any event. Still - if that's the extent of the "movement"; I'm sure smiling and walking on works %99 of the time.

 

[miamistu]

However, I find it extremely irritating that the "anti-Semetic" crap is being sad - Jesus was killed by the Jews. End of story. That is "fact". So, why is saying it in a movie anti-semetic?

8) 8) 8) 8) 8( 8( 8(

OMFG!!! First of all, I really do not care one way or the other. I was not allive 2000 years ago so I have no idea what happened.

But to say that the jews killed jesus is a fact, you have got to be f-cking kidding me. History and the catholic church blame the romans. So does almost everyone else.

No doubt, there are ppl who 'blame' the jews (not really sure how you can 'blame' anyone because assuming your christian, you believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins-but I digress).

Bottom line is you can believe what you want, but to call the statement "Jesus was killed by the jews" a fact is laughable.

Anyway, Mel gibson is a fanatic. Always has been. He once said he "prayed for the Jews". Again, LMAO

Let him keep praying-what an ass.

 

[antinazi77]

there are two modern day davids known for being a jesus of our time , one retired the other

yet they are usually considerate enough to say don't try this at home

 

[RaverMadness]

What are you talking about?

 

[The New Shaman]

Here in the bible belt all the church's tried to get it banned and now they all think it proves that Jesus is the only way..

It's a movie about a guy who had strange views getting tortured to death.. Everytime I hear about this movie from a baptist I'm thinking, "you have no real balls."

 

[frizzantik]

virtually no word of mouth

i've heard about for quite a while on varios local talk show programs... there has been a lot of controversy about it so i think people will go see it just because of that.

i hear churches are going to see it with kids.. this movie is supposed to be pretty violent so i dunno why kids are gonna go.

and whats up with mel gibson casting himself as the guard who kills jesus. that right there says a whole fucking lot

 

[rah]

^ whats it say?

 

[alasdairm]

and whats up with mel gibson casting himself as the guard who kills jesus. that right there says a whole fucking lot

from the IMDB trivia for the movie:

"It's Mel Gibson's hands that nail Christ to the cross during the Crucifixion scene. Gibson decided this because he didn't want any further conspiracy about who was blamed for killing Jesus."

alasdair

 

[frizzantik]

^ whats it say?

it says he wants to kill jesus or something. hehe i dunno you could read into it a whole lot. the main character in clockwork orange is shown fantasizing about bing as a guard beating jesus.. and here we have gibson sort of doing the same thing. hehe i could hear a psychologist asking, "if you could be in a movie about jesus' death, who would you be?"

 

[afcone]

8) 8) 8) 8) 8( 8( 8(

OMFG!!! First of all, I really do not care one way or the other. I was not allive 2000 years ago so I have no idea what happened.

But to say that the jews killed jesus is a fact, you have got to be f-cking kidding me. History and the catholic church blame the romans. So does almost everyone else.

No doubt, there are ppl who 'blame' the jews (not really sure how you can 'blame' anyone because assuming your christian, you believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins-but I digress).

Bottom line is you can believe what you want, but to call the statement "Jesus was killed by the jews" a fact is laughable.

Anyway, Mel gibson is a fanatic. Always has been. He once said he "prayed for the Jews". Again, LMAO

Let him keep praying-what an ass.

I really don't want to get into the details of the history of it - but, even if Jesus was killed by *some* Jews, would it be wrong to depict that event, even if it will be used by a few knuckleheads as propoganda. There was an interview with the head of the Simon Wisenthal (sp?) centre and his attack on the film horrified me - it basically meant a Jewish spokesperson was legitimising the view that people should blame all Jews for something that may or may not have happened 2000+ years ago.

 

[JerryBlunted]

Supposedly the Jewish religious authorities of his day wanted Jesus silenced for advancing what they saw as an incorrect or heretical version of Judaism (I don't know if heresy applies exactly, is that only used in a Christian context?). Up until awhile after the crucifixion Christianity was still considered a Jewish sect. So this whole debate is a bit confusing to me....

The actual institution that killed Jesus was the Roman Empire (Pilat was the governer of the Palestine region for Caesar). Roman soldiers arrested him and did the nailing up. Some Jews called for his death at that time, but so did many other people as well. To blame a whole group of people today for the possible actions of a few of their ancestors 2000 years ago is a bit stupid... but for Jewish leaders to make such a big deal out of this movie (which doesn't seem to be doing that) seems a little weird to me. It almost seems to legitimate that view in the eyes of people who are ignorant of the facts surrounding the situation.

 

[zorn]

..Even if some Jews did something bad over 2000 years ago why is it anti-Semitic to point that out?

It's not, and IMHO the ADL and the like tend to be a bit hypersensitive about it. I think this is somewhat understandable, given that for the better part of the last 2000 years the argument "Jews are vile, they killed Christ!" was widely used to justify their persecution, random killing, and occasional systematic slaughter. Passion plays in particular were notorious for touching off violence.

The idea that the Jews bear collective guilt for the killing of Jesus isn't something that the director of the Wiesenthal Center etc. just decided to bring up. It was official Church doctrine until recently (Vatican II), going back to the early days of Christianity. It's certainly not completely extinct today; this is where the concern comes in. Mel Gibson subscribes to an ultra-traditionalist sect of Catholicism which rejects the Vatican II reforms; also his father is a Holocaust denier, though he is not. The film apparently includes the line often used to justify Jews' collective guilt, in a scene where Pilate washes his hands of the matter and tells the (Jewish) crowd:

"I am innocent of the blood of this just person. See ye to it."

Then answered all the people, and said, "His blood be on us, and on our children!"

If you listen to the criticisms of the film, they don't charge that Gibson is an anti-Semite, but that they're concerned the film might fuel anti-Semitism by perpetuating this interpretation of collective guilt. I don't know if that's right or not, not having seen the film, but I can understand why they might be concerned. Birth of a Nation, with its combination of dramatic power and vicious & stereotypical portrayal of blacks, almost certainly contributed to the outbreaks of violence and racism against them.


j22 - Sounds poignant, but I think I'll wait for an opinion from someone who thinks that it is, in fact, "just a movie," rather than "the closest any of us will ever get to knowing."

 

[DigitalDuality]

I'm not a Christian, but I can't wait to see this movie. I expect it to be very moving. Though I am sure I will be moved in different ways than a Christian would be.

And DD... you're just being silly to use this as a soapbox. Again, I'm not a Christian, but you're comparing the central and most vital event in a religion(whether the event was mythical or actual, not making that call here) to concerned parents scared their children are learning the wrong things from mobster movies and video games where you can kill hookers.

Yes, "Concerned Parents" trying to "Save the Children" are a typically trite group of idiots to listen to, and often buttress their fears of society's effects through religious justifications, but... get real. A movie about the pain, suffering, and brutal death of the man they believe died for them is a far cry from the "glorification of violence."

Doubt many kids would see that and decide it'd sure be cool to crucify someone. Though, you never know...

I just get pissed b/c almost every concert i go to someone's trying to save my ass, but i guess that's just living in the south. But this violence is quite ok. And "glorification" of violence is in the eye of the beholder. I thought Ice-T's "cop killer" was a song about anger at police brutality, excessive force, and racism. I thought it was a good social statement that didn't hurt anyone. Yet the Christian right got it pulled from the shelves and you can't even purchase it anymore because of the pressure they put on Warner Bros by taking it out of context.

SO yeah, i will bitch about this and create a soapbox, i might even go to the fucken movie and protest it just to show a couple people a fucken mirror.

 

[miamistu]

It's not, and IMHO the ADL and the like tend to be a bit hypersensitive about it. I think this is somewhat understandable, given that for the better part of the last 2000 years the argument "Jews are vile, they killed Christ!" was widely used to justify their persecution, random killing, and occasional systematic slaughter.

Mel Gibson subscribes to an ultra-traditionalist sect of Catholicism which rejects the Vatican II reforms; also his father is a Holocaust denier, though he is not.

Zorn, I totally agree. People need to understand that many jews are hypersensitive about it because Christians used it as a basis for slaughter and it is coming from an actor who rejects the "modern" Church's positions as TOO LIBERAL and feels that this movie is some sort of religious experience.

I 4got that he belonged to that sect and that his father was a holocaust denier (as he probably is too-just not stupid enough to admit it).

It really amazes me how anyone in modern America can be that insane.

Again, it comforts me to know that Mel Gibson "prays for the Jews."

 

[JosephTHeSequel]

I dont understand why you have to call him a fanatic DD?