Fentanyl is garbage, and it ruined heroin.

[DeathIndustrial88]

Maybe it does for some. I always used opiates to help me function day to day, kill my anxiety, give me energy for work, etc.

Pure heroin was the best of them all when it came to allowing me to feel “normal” at least in the beginning.

Fent definitely felt lacking and was VERY sedating in comparison. I guess there’s it’s therapeutic profile for ya. Thing is though, I used opiates to treat things most people don’t normally use opiates for.. And they worked far better for these things than any of the other tons of drugs I’ve tried.

-GC

I can relate to what you mean. Fent felt like something that would kill me if I took it too far or did too much. And that's not something I'm willing to really gamble with for a 15 minute intense sedation with none of the euphoria of heroin. I use heroin/various other opiates for their antidepressant, antipsychotic, anxiolytic & their unique ability to give me a clean feeling of motivation and energy (the only drugs in the world that can get me up and cleaning my entire apartment and actually enjoying it, not even stims make me wanna get up off my ass). I noticed none of these great qualities on fent, which was too short acting & mostly a cold cliniccal sedation.

Maybe some out there prefer this. But to imply that fent is some how safer or equal to heroin is crazy IMO. Pure heroin is more rewarding, more functional and definitely longer acting, with less risk of overdose.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah i agree fentanyl is cold, lights out.

Fentanyl is incredibly specific for the MOR with little activity at the DOR or KOR (with ratio of like 1:2500:500 respectively). Morphine is more like 1:50:150. Thus fentanyl is cold and lights out. Surgical feeling. Feels blueish green if it were a color.

The MOR and DOR are the desirable sites, more so the MOR. The DOR has some anxiolytic and antidepressant properties. The KOR is least desirable and is associated with dysphoria and psychotomimetic effects (salvia is an ultra potent and selective KOR agonist). The binding ratios make fentanyl not a desirable euphoriant. Cold etc.

Still i would hardly describe fentanyl as dysphoric but it is certainly cold. I used to inject 20mg at a time and sort of zonk out. I once woke up on the bathroom floor and i had in some delerium carved some patterns in my chest. Given that it is 5 times as selective for the undesirable psychotomimetic KOR receptor relative to the positive DOR receptor means it can get pretty trippy and cold at high dose.

Cold & clinical are great words to describe it. Buprenorphine (another MOR specific) when tolerance is low, oddly feels like "fent-lite", as in, it's mostly a heavy sedation and none of the euphoria or inner peace that heroin has. Of course it's partial agonism plays a role, but as a person who's been on bupe for 5 years almost now, I've noticed that if I get my doses low enough or my tolerance is low enough to feel it, I'm pretty much lethargic and irritable for the rest of the day after the first 2 hours kick in. All I can think about is how drowsy I am and how I want to lay down. It's actually an inconvenience being on it some times. There are those odd days too where bupe will get me stimulated and motivated (like classic opiates), but this only lasts maybe the first 2 hours and then it's downhill to drowsyland and desperation for a nap the rest of the day.

I too for some reason associate some drugs with certain colors. Not sure why. Bupe makes me think of a pink hazy color.

I've actually had green and blue heroin rocks. I don't think they were fent tho cause they weren't that crazy sedating (not sure if they were strictly heroin either tho, who knows), but I often wonder what the hell would have made the rocks blue and green or why & if maybe it was a completely different opioid altogether. Anyone else ever come across blue or green colored 'heroin' rocks?

 

[Gobrittainygo]

Only tried fent a few times that I know of, probably many more times in the shit I've smoked the last 20years. I'm curious to know why diamorphine(heroin) has changed so much over the last 10 year's is this down to production at source or just greedy ppl stepping on it or us I g different cuts from back in the 90s but ye it's all garbage in the north west of the UK, China white hasn't put in an appearance in 15years is this down to my location or is this a global thing??
oh ye back to fent.. The times I have tried it I didn't seem to get much of a buzz maybe down to using methadone at the same time but 3-4hours after taking it I felt so cold, kinda like withdrawal.. Nasty shit imo and I'd defiantly prefer the old school smack due to its dreamy feeling, with fent you take it then wake up with no recollection of nodding or a buzz the old skool stuff used to hold you for a good 12hours and had that great warm motherly love feeling about it...

“Warm motherly love” reminds me of Basketball Diaries when he took his first shot and described it kind of the same way. I’ve been using “h” for about 9 months and I fear I’ve only ever gotten FI feel cheated disrespected sad and like I kinda Wana go to rehab man what a drag.

 

[G_Chem]

“Warm motherly love” reminds me of Basketball Diaries when he took his first shot and described it kind of the same way. I’ve been using “h” for about 9 months and I fear I’ve only ever gotten FI feel cheated disrespected sad and like I kinda Wana go to rehab man what a drag.

I’d been using opiates for years at this point (I was swimming in the old oxys and MS contins for days), and had even been using street heroin for awhile up to my first time trying pure heroin. That night was like trying a new drug class entirely.

Never before had any drug taken care of me so completely. At that very moment it was early morning and my usual nightly alcohol hangover was beginning to set in. It completely wiped out my hangover, and left me in this most pro social euphoric state, yet simultaneously stimulating. I stayed up til work chatting shit on my phone with some girl then went about my day like I’d actually slept the night before.

I became Superman. I could work 9:00am TIL 10-11pm and still go out and party or re-up before heading to bed and doing it all over.

Even when I used all the other opiates I still enjoyed other drugs, with heroin all I needed was more heroin. There was zero need for anything but more dope.

Eventually it all caught up to me but goddamn it was good for a minute. When I finally “came down” after a few years of use I realized my attitude during the experience was borderline manic and I did shit that would rival even the stupidity alcohol causes.

-GC

 

[Gormur]

I find this whole thread fascinating. I've lived in San Diego and I'm from California, then went all the way to Nashville, Tennessee for a while

I've never managed to locate any heroin or found any signs of where to find it. That makes me think fentanyl is already bigger than heroin where I've been, but who knows if that's true. I'm not really an explorer but I look for signs

From what I understand here, heroin is a lot like morphine. I've had that one so I can sort of imagine heroin. Fentanyl sounds like a drug that brings you to your knees because it limits your breathing more before actually giving you any sort of indication that you're high

Is that accurate?

 

[G_Chem]

I find this whole thread fascinating. I've lived in San Diego and I'm from California, then went all the way to Nashville, Tennessee for a while

I've never managed to locate any heroin or found any signs of where to find it. That makes me think fentanyl is already bigger than heroin where I've been, but who knows if that's true. I'm not really an explorer but I look for signs

From what I understand here, heroin is a lot like morphine. I've had that one so I can sort of imagine heroin. Fentanyl sounds like a drug that brings you to your knees because it limits your breathing more before actually giving you any sort of indication that you're high

Is that accurate?

In a nutshell yea. Fentanyl lacks the euphoria and what I believe is dopamine effect so its highly sedating, to get where one wants to be is eerily close to nodding out cold/OD.

Heroin is a pro drug for morphine to an extent, but ROA majorly effects the differences between the two. Morphine has horribly bioavailability and doesn’t really feel similar to heroin until you shoot it. Morphine orally or snorted never did much for me.

Be glad to never find it. I’ve tried a plethora of different substances and heroin might be one of my only regrets.

-GC

 

[Fire&Water]

Obvious post is obvious

 

[ahdrift]

I agree with the sentiment that Fentanyl is an awful opioid compared to Heroin. No warmth, very little euphoria in comparison and a 1/4 of the legs. This would be compared to pre-Mexican era #4 found in the NY metro area (2005 - 2013).

The main reason quality smack has almost disappeared on the east coast is because since 2013 Colombians either grew/refined less poppies or handed off a portion of the EC market to the Mexican groups, historically the Colombian #4 that dominated 60% of the powder heroin market in 2013 was very good quality, I can attest that even at the glassine level you would always find great gear. Beige or cream colored, fluffy or chunky dope with a sweet vinegar/Acetic Anhydride smell and lovely euphoria and sociability. Now that I only use DNM for #4, I still long for the days such quality was easy to find. And the stuff I get now is right off the KG sold by some very good vendors and only once in a while will I get a batch that reminds me of old school Colombian stuff.

So essentially, after 2013 the Mexican's share of the powder heroin market grew substantially, they began importing more Fentnayl, lacing it in increasing number of #4 KG's and Colombia/South American heroin production went down. When you have a country that is not known for exporting quality drugs (brick weed, black tar heroin, Chinese Fentanyl etc) and they try to enter the China White trade in lucrative markets like NY, PA, NJ etc (which requires a number of precursors, fairly skilled chemists, quality Opium) you're going to get a dip in quality compared to when the Colombians maintained the market. It's sad but true and the DEA heroin signature program supports all of these conclusions. They just don't invest in quality and are more focused on profits and quantity sadly. And this new generation of addicts continue to line their pockets so unless we see Colombians (or maybe Asian groups) re-enter the market or legalization occurs I see it remaining the same. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[dopamimetic]

War on drugs caused this shit. There is no need for an uber potent deadly cold substance like fentanyl if just the repression was gone. Until then, we will keep seeing the worst of the capitalistic bastards doing the worst things to society, be it fentanyl, crack, crystal or krokodil ...

 

[ickray]

I agree with the sentiment that Fentanyl is an awful opioid compared to Heroin. No warmth, very little euphoria in comparison and a 1/4 of the legs. This would be compared to pre-Mexican era #4 found in the NY metro area (2005 - 2013).

The main reason quality smack has almost disappeared on the east coast is because since 2013 Colombians either grew/refined less poppies or handed off a portion of the EC market to the Mexican groups, historically the Colombian #4 that dominated 60% of the powder heroin market in 2013 was very good quality, I can attest that even at the glassine level you would always find great gear. Beige or cream colored, fluffy or chunky dope with a sweet vinegar/Acetic Anhydride smell and lovely euphoria and sociability. Now that I only use DNM for #4, I still long for the days such quality was easy to find. And the stuff I get now is right off the KG sold by some very good vendors and only once in a while will I get a batch that reminds me of old school Colombian stuff.

So essentially, after 2013 the Mexican's share of the powder heroin market grew substantially, they began importing more Fentnayl, lacing it in increasing number of #4 KG's and Colombia/South American heroin production went down. When you have a country that is not known for exporting quality drugs (brick weed, black tar heroin, Chinese Fentanyl etc) and they try to enter the China White trade in lucrative markets like NY, PA, NJ etc (which requires a number of precursors, fairly skilled chemists, quality Opium) you're going to get a dip in quality compared to when the Colombians maintained the market. It's sad but true and the DEA heroin signature program supports all of these conclusions. They just don't invest in quality and are more focused on profits and quantity sadly. And this new generation of addicts continue to line their pockets so unless we see Colombians (or maybe Asian groups) re-enter the market or legalization occurs I see it remaining the same. It's a sad state of affairs.

Informative post. I'm from an area you mentioned and it's nothing but China White fentadope. It's just crazy to me how real heroin seemingly dried up over night and fent took it's place. It was like one day it was here the next it was gone.

 

[Gaffy]

Let's break it down. Fentanyl is straight up knockout powder with a mediocre at best euphoria. I dose and wake up 45 minutes later in weird positions sore as fuck. Not to mention you have to re-dose every 2 hours to not feel withdrawals coming on due to it's ridiculously short half-life. It also sky rockets tolerance, and in my opinion the withdrawals are way worse then other opioids. I don't see the allure in this drug whatsoever. I remember the days of real heroin with long legs and an amazing euphoria that actually made you want to go out and do things. With fent I can't even function. On the east coast where I'm from, finding real dope is literally impossible, and that has ruined the game for me. Boy do I miss the days of the tan ECP that smelled like vinegar. I never see too many people bitching about all the dope being mostly fent nowadays, and I'd assume some people here might prefer it over real heroin. If you are one of those people, I'm curious to hear why.

Don't get me wrong, fent is great for what it is meant to be used for, end of life pain, and surgery. But recreationally, I find it to be garbage.
Rant over.

Fentanyl is garbage, Heroin...
You're perfectly right.

 

[Japhy Ryder]

The fentanyl we used to get out of patches was really good. felt right, lasted a good while. but now, all the down, no matter what it is called, its fentanyl, but a crappy kind, short, not high, dopey. oh yeah, and it keeps knocking people off.

bak in the old days heroin put you on your feet for the day. dilaudid was good too, just minus the legs. I have no idea why anyone wanted oxy. that stuff just feels ugly in me. I've faced up, I can't afford a habit anymore, i look for alternates.

 

[HoldBack]

Personally I prefer fent to BTH which is what I was doing before fent consumed the heroin scene here in SF. BtH just gives me mad pins and needles ugh I hate thattttt. The high is longer but I’ve never been in it for the high really, I’m in it for the RUSH as well as avoiding physical withdrawals. Here in the Bay Area it seems like it switched to fentanyl bc that’s what the demand was for. Everyone I have talked to says they did it once and then realized that it was better than bth. Maybe that’s just cause bth is trash bc the people I know on the East coast say the same thing as you, that fent just makes them pass out and they hate it. Or maybe the fent is different? Cause I don’t pass out. I just feel an amazing rush.

The tar in sf gave me an unpleasant histamine rush pretty consistently above 1 or two dimes in a shot (I.e. every shot.

the margins for the Mexican wholesalers and the Hondos is so high on fent and crystal, they’ve really taken over the majority of the market.

Beyond the cost savings for the users, I think the ability to smoke fent effectively is a huge part of the appeal. Your veins won’t last more than a decade shooting SF tar.
It’s by far the best rush I can get through 150 mg methadone.

 

[negrogesic]

The tar in sf gave me an unpleasant histamine rush pretty consistently above 1 or two dimes in a shot (I.e. every shot.

the margins for the Mexican wholesalers and the Hondos is so high on fent and crystal, they’ve really taken over the majority of the market.

Beyond the cost savings for the users, I think the ability to smoke fent effectively is a huge part of the appeal. Your veins won’t last more than a decade shooting SF tar.
It’s by far the best rush I can get through 150 mg methadone.

I always enjoyed black tar more than fentanyl, but ive never had street fentanyl (only pharmaceutical fentanyl). I used to inject both. Its possible they are using a more euphoric fentanyl analog than the fentanyl freebase patches and fentanyl citrate i used to inject. Oddly enough though, alot of the sample tests i come across usually specify fentanyl proper.

Fentanyl does seem to pierce through methadone better however. I used to inject a whole 16.8mg fentanyl patch at a time while on 380mg of methadone. You can't fit the equivalent of 16.8mg of fentanyl worth of tar into a single syringe.

Glad im not doing that shit these days and am long off methadone. You might consider letting the methadone do its work. I feel like they underdose methadone.

 

[G_Chem]

Fentanyl is garbage, Heroin...
You're perfectly right.

Maybe too perfect...

-GC

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

I only tried fent once and it was in a hospital. I was in excruciating pain and couldn't move. After the 100ug shot, I stood up, walked to the bathroom, took a piss, washed my hands, etc. I was fully aware of how good it felt to do those normal things, when five minutes previously I couldn't even stand up. In that way, the relief was a sort of Rush. It felt very clean and had no side effects.

I moved to Southeast Asia in my early 30's and scored some Golden Triangle heroin three times. I smoked & sniffed, felt great all night and into the next day - fully functional, no nod. I didn't try it again after that. Codeine and tramadol are OTC in some Asian countries, so no need to beg a doctor and be treated like a criminal. AmeriKKKa is a failure. I prefer to live where I'm treated like an adult, and I can manage my chronic pain.

 

[RainbowElf]

Isn't it easy to overdose on Fentanyl? hence the so many deaths.

 

[xbandit07x]

This is the end of the world, because we wouldnt Enjoy That.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Isn't it easy to overdose on Fentanyl? hence the so many deaths.

Yes, it is easy to overdose because the drug is active in the micrograms range. A regular dose of fentynal is 100 micrograms, which is 0.1 milligrams. It's much too small to make accurate doses unless you have very sensitive and very expensive equipment.

 

[GodFatherPoppy]

New member here, lurked for 10 years.

Anyways yes Fent ruined the dope scene and caused so much carnage. Nowadays I stick to my subs but occasionally use once every month or 2. Maybe will see a revival of the good tan powder but my hopes aren't very high now that the cat is outta the bag with fent