Fentanyl is garbage, and it ruined heroin.

[DeathIndustrial88]

Interesting. I was an opioid addict for 11 years and all my overdoses were with heroin. Never once on fentanyl for the three years I used it.

It is all about dose.

Hmm. I wonder then. Did you ever mix your heroin with benzos or alcohol? Hell, I always made sure my dude gave me my heroin raw as well, so I could cut it myself. I have never once overdosed. Nor with pills. But I also didn't mix my heroin with benzos or alcohol.

I didn't care for fentanyl. It was not long lasting, had pretty much no euphoria and a pretty scary clinical feeling nod. I would take it if I had absolutely nothing else, but give me heroin instead any time.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

You overdosed because you literally "over" dosed.

Who are you talking to dude? I've never overdosed. I literally did a tiny bump of "heroin" I had gotten, which turned out to be fentanyl. I'm VERY lucky I had nothing else in my system and did not go into it with a big bump like I would had I known it was good heroin. I did not 'over' dose nor did I 'overdose'. I said it made me feel like I was going to overdose because the nod was too strong for the tiny bit I had done. Can you not see how this could easily lead to overdose versus regular heroin? C'mon dude, I"m not gonna debate this with you.

You defend fentanyl all day long if you'd like, but I highly disagree with heroin being as dangerous as fentanyl, by far. Unless your dealer was dealing you your shit raw, I highly doubt all your overdoses were because of 'heroin" and if they were, then well maybe YOU "over" dosed"...

 

[Deru]

Who are you talking to dude?

Sorry, it was meant to be read:

If you overdose, you literally "over" dosed.

Or:

If [anyone] overdoses, [they] literally "over" dosed.

I used the pronoun "you" since we were talking, and it auto corrected the first "overdose" from present tense to past tense "overdosed".

Sorry for the confusion.

It wasn't implying you overdosed, I was illustrating how dose is so important.

 

[Deru]

C'mon dude, I"m not gonna debate this with you.

I get what you're saying - that's why I even said it should be more about people not knowing how to dose properly and/or the inability to make an informed decision because of extremely variability in fentanyl purity in a given sample in certain areas - but not all areas suffer from this anymore and it seems more and more are getting better at it. No one wants to be killing their customers and drawing the FBI in because of a large amount of overdoses due to improperly cutting the fentanyl.

There are so many variables that prevent that from happening safely on the street, especially in a ton of areas where the fentanyl is not evenly distributed throughout the sample and has pockets of a high amount. It's scary.

But then we started talking about medical grade, and then I was comparing them in those settings because in order to fairly compare them they need to be compared apples to apples (i.e. street grade heroin use to street grade fentanyl use or medical heroin use to medical fentanyl use.)

 

[Deru]

You defend fentanyl all day long if you'd like, but I highly disagree with heroin being as dangerous as fentanyl, by far. Unless your dealer was dealing you your shit raw, I highly doubt all your overdoses were because of 'heroin" and if they were, then well maybe YOU "over" dosed"...

I'm definitely not going to engage in a useless pissing match of who had the better heroin - how pointless. It was consistent and quality, I'll leave it at that.

You're not making any sense, bro. That is literally what an overdose is. I never drank alcohol or used any other sedative, hypnotic or anxiolytic drugs in combination with the heroin overdoses.

Are you literally trying to debate heroin, by itself, is safe and unable to overdose on?

By the way, I'm not trying to defend fentanyl. I was debating the misinformation.

That's literally what I'm saying, too. With heroin, people develop this false belief it's safe or their tolerance will protect them and push the boundaries with higher and higher doses - resulting in overdoses.

With fentanyl, I was extremely cautious and cognizant of dosing, so I never overdosed because I used extreme caution when it came to dosing and developed a system - and I was lucky the product was so consistent for years at a time, so it was easy to do, and also was cut properly to prevent pockets of lethal amounts and had correct amounts throughout.

I'm not trying to say fentanyl is safer than heroin, I'm saying both of them can be dangerous in their own, unique ways.

 

[nznity]

@Deru This is what everyone should be shooting up

 

[Deru]

@nznity What is that, exactly? Is that liquid pharmaceutical opioids?

 

[nznity]

@nznity What is that, exactly? Is that liquid pharmaceutical opioids?

20 mg morphine ampoules.

 

[Deru]

20 mg morphine ampoules.

Oh for sure that would be the best!

 

[nznity]

Oh, for sure that would be the best!

i've probably shot 10000 of those in 7 years, the rush is always the same. Never once Od'd

 

[Deru]

Seriously? That sounds like the perfect supply! Is that somehow medical prescription or just a seriously awesome connection?

The health benefits too of not dealing with street grade nonsense, your veins must love them as well

 

[Deru]

I used to literally fantasize about how to get pharmaceutical or medical grade opioids for the rest of my life.

 

[G_Chem]

I mean...I don't like fentanyl at all and I don't want to seem like I'm defending it.

But if you dose phamaceutal fentanyl correctly, and dose pharmaceutical diacetylmorphine correctly, the risks aren't much different.

It's not much fair to change the debate to now the heroin is medical grade and the fentanyl is street grade.

As a matter of fact, the opposite argument could be made to your response: fentanyl is used daily in medical settings with no problems, where diacetylmorphine is not - until recently where I believe some countries are allowing it for specific reasons.

Maybe the argument should be people do not understand how to dose fentanyl correctly, and that creates the bigger risk, because they don't realize how extremely small a proper fentanyl dose is. In markets where fentanyl dominates over heroin nowadays, the issue of selling batches of fentanyl with deadly amounts is becoming less and less.

I did street fentanyl for almost three years with no issue- not because I wanted to, but because heroin was no longer available.

Once the supply issues were figured out and everyone started learning how to dose properly, the overdose spikes were completely eliminated.

I disagree.. I’ve plenty experience with pharmaceutical fentanyl (actually very little experience with fent dope having only encounter it once) and can say pure Diacetylmorphine is safer.

There’s not much euphoria and the nod is so strong there’s a fine line between feeling good and nodded out in a dangerous way.

Your heroin overdoses were 99% likely due to potency variation. I used pure heroin for years and never came even remotely close to an overdose.

-GC

 

[Deru]

I disagree.. I’ve plenty experience with pharmaceutical fentanyl (actually very little experience with fent dope having only encounter it once) and can say pure Diacetylmorphine is safer.

There’s not much euphoria and the nod is so strong there’s a fine line between feeling good and nodded out in a dangerous way.

Your heroin overdoses were 99% likely due to potency variation. I used pure heroin for years and never came even remotely close to an overdose.

-GC

So do you mean fentanyl is more dangerous because there is a smaller window of error for an overdose?

If you take 25 mcg/day (0.025 mg) of fentanyl via parenteral administration that is roughly 2.5 mg of morphine (MME).

At the correct dose, I still fail to see how it's more dangerous than diacetylmorphine.

I will reiterate this again, it stems from a lack of knowledge of how to dose properly, and with illicit fentanyl, the inability to know exactly what the purity of any given sample is and if it's a specific fentanyl analogue.

But if we're discussing pharmaceutical grade fentanyl to pharmaceutical grade diacetylmorphine, then it becomes an error in dosing first and foremost.

As for recreational benefits, fentanyl is poor at euphoria and the high. It only succeeds in it's ability to relieve withdrawal symptoms for cheap - if dosed correctly.

Just because someone does a subjective "tiny" bump and felt like they were going to overdose means very little - the correct dose of fentanyl is almost microscopic. A lot of this is based on drawing incorrect conclusions trying to compare a similar line of fentanyl to a line of heroin, while trying to compensate on the fly by making the line much smaller than one would for heroin, a "tiny" bump would still be technically too high of a dose depending upon purity - and then assuming correlation equals causation with their experience thereafter. It's called anecdotal for a reason. They're failing to acknowledge the exact same thing would happen if they dosed diacetylmorphine too much as well.

But yes, the window and margin of error is much smaller with fentanyl than with diacetylmorphine. This is where the danger lies.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I disagree.. I’ve plenty experience with pharmaceutical fentanyl (actually very little experience with fent dope having only encounter it once) and can say pure Diacetylmorphine is safer.

There’s not much euphoria and the nod is so strong there’s a fine line between feeling good and nodded out in a dangerous way.

Your heroin overdoses were 99% likely due to potency variation. I used pure heroin for years and never came even remotely close to an overdose.

-GC

I agree. This is what I've been trying to tell this guy but he just wants to argue on and on and on... Pure heroin is no where near as dangerous as pure fent. Period. I've never come close to overdosing on heroin either but my first time with fent, it only took me a little bit and for the first time, I finally felt like I was close to an OD. Had I had a benzo or a bunch of alcohol in my system, I imagine I would be dead right now.

 

[Deru]

I agree. This is what I've been trying to tell this guy but he just wants to argue on and on and on... Pure heroin is no where near as dangerous as pure fent. Period. I've never come close to overdosing on heroin either but my first time with fent, it only took me a little bit and for the first time, I finally felt like I was close to an OD. Had I had a benzo or a bunch of alcohol in my system, I imagine I would be dead right now.

So your problem is I won't accept your views based on lack of knowledge, misinformation and anecdotal experiences?

Sorry, if you refuse to want to learn, that's on you.

If you didn't bring the adjective "pure" into this - I would and have been agreeing with you.

The second we start talking about pure or pharmaceutical grade, everything changes.

Pure pharmaceutical fentanyl is used all over the world - daily - safely with no issues when people have the correct knowledge on how to properly use them for decades.

 

[nznity]

I disagree.. I’ve plenty experience with pharmaceutical fentanyl (actually very little experience with fent dope having only encounter it once) and can say pure Diacetylmorphine is safer.

There’s not much euphoria and the nod is so strong there’s a fine line between feeling good and nodded out in a dangerous way.

Your heroin overdoses were 99% likely due to potency variation. I used pure heroin for years and never came even remotely close to an overdose.

-GC

Ikr Man, i use both Pharma morphine AND fent sometimes. Whenever i use fent, if i do a bit too much i fall asleep in the bathroom with the syringe still in my arm. I haven't came close to od on pure morphine either because for a good Rush AND to get high you dont need too much. When you do cut dope from the street since the purity Is inconsistent you have to keep pushing your doses allí the Time until the day arrives when you get some FIRE AND bam you end up overdosing. The only way to od on pure opiates Is when you MIX benzos, alcohol AND muscle relaxants with the dope. If you're not that reckless, there's only a slim chance to od. I've never came close to oding in 5 years shooting daily, I've puked from too much but Oding never.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I've never came close to oding in 5 years shooting daily, I've puked from too much but Oding never.

Famous last words. Be careful with this attitude because tolerance is a funny thing. There are days where it just seems lower for whatever reason and the usual dose even from a known source like a pharmaceutical can put you in the grave. It happened to me though I managed to avoid death, it has happened to my friends, and most of those people have relocated to a place 6 feet under. Most of them didn't even use the needle and managed to do this through the nasal or oral ROAs.

Not trying to be a dick just don't want to see them take away another soul. I'm not a person that got clean and hates opioids now. I still love them more than any other class of drug on Earth. I'll still play with them from time to time in the privacy of my own home. All that has changed is I have a healthy respect for them now.

 

[nznity]

Famous last words. Be careful with this attitude because tolerance is a funny thing. There are days where it just seems lower for whatever reason and the usual dose even from a known source like a pharmaceutical can put you in the grave. It happened to me though I managed to avoid death, it has happened to my friends, and most of those people have relocated to a place 6 feet under. Most of them didn't even use the needle and managed to do this through the nasal or oral ROAs.

Not trying to be a dick just don't want to see them take away another soul. I'm not a person that got clean and hates opioids now. I still love them more than any other class of drug on Earth. I'll still play with them from time to time in the privacy of my own home. All that has changed is I have a healthy respect for them now.

Whenever i quit for a while i only need 40-60mg to get high. To od even without tolerance i would.need like 0.2g i think. Still when i get high I'm not looking for a NOD, i just like the Rush AND stimulate myself. Never in excess but still ty for the advice.

 

[Deru]

Period. I've never come close to overdosing on heroin either but my first time with fent, it only took me a little bit and for the first time, I finally felt like I was close to an OD.

Specifically, due to your lack of knowledge, you improperly used the fentanyl and over dosed with the fentanyl - literally took too much to lead you to feel like that. An overdose, itself, is a spectrum and doesn't mean unconscious or death.

For someone like you, you're right. Fentanyl is definitely more dangerous than heroin if you're unwilling to be open to learn - so keep on keeping on.

Heroin gives a much larger window for error when it comes to proper dosing.