Feminism

[doofqueen]

Fuck off. The fact that a career and child-rearing are exclusive or impractical alternatives (and that you would therefore rather not have to make an unappealing choice between the two) does not mean that business and the rest of society should have to pay so that you can goddamn self-indulgently avoid the choice and do both at the expense of business and society. Until such time that I am 'allowed' to 'take a year off and sail around the Mediterranean on a yacht' knowing that when I return my job is secure, your claim is utter bullshit.

So you are comparing taking time off to go on a holiday to raising a child? Righty-o 8)

I understand that a buisness isn't going to want to be paying someone for not doing work for them but I think it's only fair to have job security if you choose to become a parent, bond with your child and return to work rather then someone taking that position over for you (especially if you have been in a job for a long time) and then you be a new parent and out of work.

I like that Samadi raised the point that men only get one week off (yes granted the whole healing after childbirth etc is needed for a woman so that is taken into account) but I feel if the father is going to be the primary care giver and the mother returns to work that he should get the same rights as a female to maternity leave. This is an example of what i was saying about unfair role reversal.

1234 - (nice to see your thoughtful posts back here again by the way) As i said to you before but will repaet for the sake of the thread - Men can not be feminists technically as they do not identify as women but can be supportive of feminism for sure and more people should be so.

gher - i'm going to have to agree with 1234 on this and say that women would have eventually made the stand anyway. They may have had some male support but essensially it was them that was doing the leg work.

zepher - this isn't the topic my assignemnt is on. Wish the one it was on got as many replies as this one. I'd be home and hosed

EEG - Interesting that you would raise the topic of environmentalism. Women actually were the ones to start giving a shit about it in the first place due to them being mothers and wanting to look after their childrens health and what not. I was actually surprised to find this out and found it really interesting. Did a whole big essay on it last year. Even got a distinction

On the opening door issue - i love havning doors opened for me. It's not a sign of weakness on my behalf and i am showing that i'm not strong enough to do it myself but rather just a plain sign of politeness and courtesy from both genders. I will open doors for men just cos i'm a sweetheart This to me really has nothing to do with gender anymore. It used to but not anymore

anna - i agree that i don't want any accomplishments to be given to me and praised JUST because i'm a woman. Should be an individual basis. Unless maybe it was something that was accomplished and BECAUSE of your gender made it harder to obtain but i can't even think of any examples.

also agree that "just" being a housewife/mum should not be looked down upon. Although i am actually guilty of doing this myself at times but thats in certain cases. I guess i just feel that women should be able to be a housewife and more if they WANT to rather being stuck in a position where it's the only option. Feminism to be is mainly alos about CHOICE. So as a mother you should be able to CHOOSE if you want to "just" be a mum or be a mum and have a carer but the option for choice is whats most important. I put pressure on myself with this issue. Granted i'm not working and just studying but even saying that i feel like i have to say "well i'm a mum AND i'm studying towards a career" when someone askes "what do you do?" because i feel pressure from the feminist in me to be more than that. Women themselves sometimes are other womens worst critics.

It's like the child care debate. Women get put down if they don't work and want to actually raise their children and then get put down when they put their kids in childcare so they can work and then get told that they are being selfish and putting their careers in front of their children while they should be raising them them selves and not letting 'strangers' do so.

Thankyou for everyones discussions so far

 

[anna!]

Women themselves sometimes are other womens worst critics.

Totally agree with this! I've found that most of the time men say "Wow, good for you!", while women say things like "Oh. When do you find time to be with your kids?" or "Isn't that hard when you've got kids? Don't you miss them?" or "You must find it hard to concentrate on work with your kids around." 8) Thanks for your input, dickheads!

 

[preacha]

anna - i agree that i don't want any accomplishments to be given to me and praised JUST because i'm a woman. Should be an individual basis. Unless maybe it was something that was accomplished and BECAUSE of your gender made it harder to obtain but i can't even think of any examples.

you have just killed your own argument

preaching equality yet expecting praise after completing a task not typically suited for a female

 

[m4dd0g]

So you are comparing taking time off to go on a holiday to raising a child? Righty-o 8)

And raising a child on an overpopulated planet with an excess of orphans is less self indulgent how exactly?

The money to do so isnt free - think about it

Men can not be feminists technically as they do not identify as women but can be supportive of feminism for sure and more people should be so.

fem·i·nist (fm-nst)
n.
A person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism.

Does this mean i cant champion refugee rights because I still live in my country?
Its about sympathising/emphasising. Humans can choose to be good at that shit

... environmentalism. Women actually were the ones to start giving a shit about it in the first place due to them being mothers and wanting to look after their childrens health and what not.

Sinking Credibility FTW!

 

[doofqueen]

you have just killed your own argument

preaching equality yet expecting praise after completing a task not typically suited for a female

well i did say i couldnt think of any examples

 

[preacha]

i would bother arguing my point
but for shits and giggles
respond to m4dd0g's post first

 

[doofqueen]

And raising a child on an overpopulated planet with an excess of orphans is less self indulgent how exactly?

The money to do so isnt free - think about it

Dude that's a whole other tipic regarding adoption/natural child birth and dna and so forth

Does this mean i cant champion refugee rights because I still live in my country?
Its about sympathising/emphasising. Humans can choose to be good at that shit

I only said "technically" They can be SUPPORTIVE of it but in my eyes not a "feminist" because like i said does not identify as a woman so there fore don't REALLY understand and can only speculate what it's like to be female and deal with these issues. They can still campain etc! No worries! I mean if they want to identify as one i really couldn't give a shit because at least they are empathising with it *shrugs* no biggie... I was being pedantic

Sinking Credibility FTW!

what does FTW stand for? I get lost in all these net abbreviations at times

 

[zephyr]

^ it stands for "for the win". Its a catchphrase that is being terribly overused on BL recently for some odd reason.

 

[mugen]

Please feel free to elaborate and share your views in more detail rather then just flinging a blank insult my way

yea right after i finish sticking my penis in any hole i can find (for want of any females in the immediate vicinity whom i could subjugate) and generally being a boorish, unintelligent male.

(i'm not going to actually respond; you managed to espouse about every common cliche viewpoint in that post, in amongst the simply fanciful claims of inherently masculine values and conspiracy theories, and it would be a monumental undertaking to bother addressing them one by one)

 

[endlesseulogy]

OoOoOoeerrrr..

Fanciful eh?

 

[mugen]

So you are comparing taking time off to go on a holiday to raising a child? Righty-o 8)

I am sorry, I missed the part where you explained why having a child is an inherently more meritorious thing than a holiday. In any case, the analogy was to demonstrate two situations in which largely or entirely mutually exclusive choices arise. In one, working or <not working>. In another, working or raising a child.

I chose a silly example for the sole reason that I knew you would go ' but but having a child is such a wonderful and important thing'. Predictable. 8)

I understand that a buisness isn't going to want to be paying someone for not doing work for them but I think it's only fair to have job security if you choose to become a parent, bond with your child and return to work rather then someone taking that position over for you (especially if you have been in a job for a long time) and then you be a new parent and out of work.

It is not always the case that it will be costly to a business to re-employ a woman who took time off to raise children, but I would expect that in the vast majority of cases it will be. The currency of the hypothetical woman's knowledge and skills will decline over the period that she spends raising children, finding a temporary replacement will be costly for the business, etc.

I like that Samadi raised the point that men only get one week off (yes granted the whole healing after childbirth etc is needed for a woman so that is taken into account) but I feel if the father is going to be the primary care giver and the mother returns to work that he should get the same rights as a female to maternity leave. This is an example of what i was saying about unfair role reversal.

Why any rights? Having a child is a CHOICE and it is YOUR choice. If you make the purely voluntary election to have children, the costs of those children should be entirely yours; you should not be permitted to foist the indirect costs of having a child on to society so that you can indulge yourself and capriciously displace the exigencies of ordinary life, to wit, needing to be able to meet your expenses through employment.

That they are in large part mutually exclusive is YOUR problem, not mine, nor society's. It might be a difficult decision, or even a dilemma, but pouting and wishing that it wasn't, or forcing society to take away the problem is bullshit.

EEG - Interesting that you would raise the topic of environmentalism. Women actually were the ones to start giving a shit about it in the first place due to them being mothers and wanting to look after their childrens health and what not. I was actually surprised to find this out and found it really interesting. Did a whole big essay on it last year. Even got a distinction

You are an idiot and so is your lecturer. A father has precisely the same interest in ensuring the propagation of his progeny as a woman. Fucking arts students and your a priori bullshit, can't you at least pay some scant regard to science once in a while?

also agree that "just" being a housewife/mum should not be looked down upon. Although i am actually guilty of doing this myself at times but thats in certain cases. I guess i just feel that women should be able to be a housewife and more if they WANT to rather being stuck in a position where it's the only option. Feminism to be is mainly alos about CHOICE. So as a mother you should be able to CHOOSE if you want to "just" be a mum or be a mum and have a carer but the option for choice is whats most important. I put pressure on myself with this issue. Granted i'm not working and just studying but even saying that i feel like i have to say "well i'm a mum AND i'm studying towards a career" when someone askes "what do you do?" because i feel pressure from the feminist in me to be more than that. Women themselves sometimes are other womens worst critics.

8) Making lunch must be *so* onerous compared with working 16 hour days at Mallesons or Deutsche Bank.

No-one would deny you the choice of attempting to juggle both. What I would deny you is trying to make both work at once when the only way to do so is to make society pay part of the costs of your choice. Your choice, not mine. Please don't send me a tax bill for your horrible offspring. Thx.

It's like the child care debate. Women get put down if they don't work and want to actually raise their children and then get put down when they put their kids in childcare so they can work and then get told that they are being selfish and putting their careers in front of their children while they should be raising them them selves and not letting 'strangers' do so.

Whoever said that? Staying home to raise children is by no means the equivalent of many of the careers open to a woman, but it is certainly not something which should of itself attract criticism. Criticism is rightly directed at those who elect to have children and then pay them scant regard. Although other people's children are not my concern, I do not think that having children should be considered to be one of the boxes to be ticked as one progresses through life and, once that box has been ticked, to be done at the least possible inconvenience to disinterested parents.

 

[endlesseulogy]

Why any rights? Having a child is a CHOICE and it is YOUR choice.

Hmmmm, i would re-think that statement if i were you. If you bothered to think you would see that many pregnancies are not planned. Bend the rules for these folk? You're statements are poorly thought out and extreamly putrid. I smell a wank-fest. Ask any muslim women in the totalitarian Islamic world about her rights of choice for children. Start thinking globally.

 

[mugen]

Poorly thought out and putrid? lmfao.

You quoted one line out of those post, entirely out of its context and thereby deprived of its meaning, and accuse me of statements which are in a state of decay? (yes, that is, btw, what putrid means) 8)

 

[the_ketaman]

I hate feminists, Ive had school teachers that were feminist's at a very young age and For the teachers to treat the girls better than the boys is fucking ridiculous IMO. Of course now I dont let it bother me, but just imagine in a class of 6 year olds, all the girls get lollies and early marks etc.. but the boys get set back whether or not they are little shits like so many young boys(I was once a little brat too lol) these days. They think they are so much better than guys like they are looking down at us. Why dont people start focusing on abuse toward both sexes instead of the usual "my b/f raped me/beat me.." I definitely dont agree with abuse to women, but what about the guys, theres dudes out on the street getting put in hospital getting fucked up at parties.

Women you are not the only ones that suffer, just because we are physically stronger than you doesnt meen that we dont have needs. Go fuck yourself if you think your better than us. I do believe we are equal but people dont realise this.

 

[endlesseulogy]

Pfft, I hate people that hide their obvious inner angst and hate for life in technicalities related to a specific argument. Poor form.

 

[zegs]

I like muddy, angry punch you in the face anarchofeminists. Liberal feminists are just boring, get back to sipping your latte bitch!

Well, back to the hole with me.

 

[raverchik]

Mugen, wow I like you. Lets mate

 

[mymymymysharona]

 

[mymymymysharona]

Mugen, wow I like you. Lets mate

haha how primal :D

 

[onetwothreefour]

I hate feminists, Ive had school teachers that were feminist's at a very young age and For the teachers to treat the girls better than the boys is fucking ridiculous IMO. Of course now I dont let it bother me, but just imagine in a class of 6 year olds, all the girls get lollies and early marks etc.. but the boys get set back whether or not they are little shits like so many young boys(I was once a little brat too lol) these days. They think they are so much better than guys like they are looking down at us. Why dont people start focusing on abuse toward both sexes instead of the usual "my b/f raped me/beat me.." I definitely dont agree with abuse to women, but what about the guys, theres dudes out on the street getting put in hospital getting fucked up at parties.

Women you are not the only ones that suffer, just because we are physically stronger than you doesnt meen that we dont have needs. Go fuck yourself if you think your better than us. I do believe we are equal but people dont realise this.

you do realise that just makes your teachers bigots, not feminists, right?

cockspank.