News FDA seeks to classify 7-OH as Schedule 1

notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Definitely different beasts -- like snorting coke v chewing cocoa leaves. Eating pods to shooting heroin.

Was there ever a minute you thought it was the same beast? If so, why?
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The only time I thought they might be the same’ish was before I tried it. But then when I tried it I was like “woohoo” but in the back of my mind was like ‘oh shit this is going to be a problem’. The shit turns on ya fast too re tolerance and side effects.
 
Forsure -- General rule whenever they take a plant that 'kinda got you high' than isolate and steroid up the molecule that gets you high --- different ballgame.

I wonder about this with THC concentrate honestly -- up till now we just been smokin the plant. Now we are extracting the alkaloid (but not steroid'ing it up or I wouldnt partake) THC is still THC -- JWH 018 on the other hand....
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Forsure -- General rule whenever they take a plant that 'kinda got you high' than isolate and steroid up the molecule that gets you high --- different ballgame.
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Reminds me of the whole ephedra scenario years back. You could buy the plant is stick form and make your own tea. (ephedra is nothing but pure anxiety for me). But people were taking it and making methaphetamine (so it was said). So then they made the plant illegal. But then it became legal again I believe. Something like that. But ephedra had to be manipulated a bit to produce a drug. Sort of like kratom. Except ephedrine does not turn into methamphetamine though ingestion.

The FDA did their own tests of plain leaf to try and "catch" the dangers of kratom. But could not find anything and decided it was tolerated well. Then comes 7-OH, which I myself never tried but not sure why something like tianeptine wasn't looked at first.
 
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helpingout said:
Kratom bridged me down a rung from heroin -> bupe -> kratom -> 7 and now when I’m craving a lapse I take some turmeric curcumin and some piperine and a single dose of seven.
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btw, adding the supplement Agmatine to that stack will really help.
Agmatine reduces tolerance build-up, reduces withdrawl symptoms, proactively repairs things (neurogenesis) and potentiates the effects of most drugs, especially opioids, benzos and cannabinoids.
There's a few terpenes that act via the opioid system too, combined with your curcumin/piperine/7-OH stack + Agmatine you'll get a lot more out of it.

Kratom interacts with many areas, it's not just an opioid. Going from "full-spectrum" kratom to pure 7-OH you loose a lot of the other effects.
The major constituent, mitragynine, is also a proposed agonist at the adrenergic alpha-2 receptor, a mechanism that is currently utilized in opioid withdrawal therapies with mechanism of action similar to clonidine, a selective alpha-2 receptor agonist.
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Like clonidine, Agmatine is an alpha-2 receptor agonist (and NMDA antagonist, pro-BDNF...)

Kratom is derived from Mitragyna speciosa and contains active alkaloids that bind opioid, alpha-2 adrenergic, and 5-HT2A receptors.
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Mitragynine possesses a non-opioid action through alpha-2 adrenergic, adenosine (A2A), dopamine (D2), and serotonin (5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, 5-HT7) receptors.
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While kratom is most commonly known for its affinity for mu-opioid receptors, research has shown one of its active components has effects on the same receptors to which some antipsychotics bind, such as D2 dopamine, serotonin (5-HT2C and 5-HT7), and alpha-2 adrenergic receptors displaying possible indications of kratom to be used as both antipsychotics and antidepressants.
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The Potential for Kratom as an Antidepressant and Antipsychotic - PMC

Mitragyna speciosa, otherwise known as kratom, is a plant in the coffee family (Rubiaceae) native to Southeast Asia and Thailand whose leaves have been shown to cause opioid-like and stimulant responses upon ingestion. The major pharmacologically ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
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helpingout said:
Bullshit. Kratom has fucked up withdrawals for people taking even a gram a day for more than a year.

It’s awful. You’ll shit. You’ll feel bad constantly. No sleep whatsoever. Need time off from work.

To kratom a credit. No matter the duration
Of use. Once you take your last dose. Most people feel physically well at about two weeks. But most people experience a worsening of symptoms to a height at day six
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That depends largely on the person. Some people take heaps of kratom every day for years and only end up with shivers and a sneeze when they stop while others can get serious withdrawal symptoms after considerably lighter use. Personally I found the tolerance development (dosages around 10g decent powder) enough to be forced to make occasional tolerance breaks to still be able to feel it. But sure, if you never make tolerance breaks and keep escalating your dosages to insane levels that might not end well. I have spoken with quite a large amount of users and I have yet to encounter a user who took 1 gram for a year (who does that?) and gets horrible withdrawals from it.
 
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Really not surprised with the way these selfish companies have been recklessly pushing these vapes. On a news clip I actually saw a package with the brand name Floyd and it had a picture of a black man's face on it.
 
^Ouch that is particular salt in the wound. brands like 'smurfs' and 'perks' were taking it far enough.

I do have a question though about this 7 oh landing in gas stations ---- why does something like say bromazolam not end up in these same places. Obviously that would be bad overall; just wondering if there is any legal reason behind it?

First thoughts speed and opiates ppl are gunna come back for quickly and sell more (also raise red flags faster) -- saw one kid (connected minimall) running into the smoke shop than back to Starbucks back to the smoke shop I think I counted 4 times while I was in there grabbing (Some of that for my 71 yr old mother as drs don't write) and butane.....Idk if they just didn't wanna go in. More likely he was selling them as something else by the enthusiasm.
 
helpingout said:
Respectfully ,

Beer withdrawal is manageable, and that ethanol, it’s a different animal. They’re acknowledging the difference between a fermented wheat beverage with carbohydrates and dozens of balancing poly phenols … and a single isolated compound that hits hard and fast.

You can advocate for beer without blindly defending ethanol. They’re are not the same experience.


Every beer drinker in hell just rolled over

Delirium tremens occur in both beer drinkers and evervlear drinkers and in both the seizures can lead to death.

The molecule is identical.

Withdrawaling off more compounds doesn’t make the withdrawal easier it makes it more complex.

Quitting kratom means quitting 7oh.

Kratoms only fail safe against 7oh addiction spiraling like the experience you described is that plain leaf kratom is fucking disgusting. I couldn’t stomach more than 80g a day. And even then that’s at a bare minimum 40-80mg 7oh a day for poor and efficient metabolizers. It’s sludge at that point t. You can’t supersaturate it beyond that.

So kratom has a natural ceiling via the form of the product and it’s metabolism into 7 in the liver, but that does not make withdrawaling from the 7 nor every alkaloid in your kilo any easier than if you had taken only the 7 you metabolized directly as 7 in equivalent amounts.

You’re withdrawal either way would be the hellish experience of opiate withdrawal.
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Huh?
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
me too --- certainly wouldn't be plenty of time for a few ppl on the ball to make a fortune and duck out at everyone's expense.....which none of us would do.... lol

but really WHY? I would love it to be at headshops but some arsehole would ruin it - they ALWAYS DO.
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Yea I would like it too.
I don’t understand US laws much, it seems to be all over the place. Whenever I go to Puerto Rico to visit family I can get whatever I want at pharmacies over the counter as long as you ask (away from the tourist spots). I know it’s ‘technically’ the US but it’s different over there. Kind of wish the pharmacies were like that over here.
 
aye -- never been to Puerto Rico but I know the US treats them "different" coughworsecough so I would not be surprised if they buck bureacracy a bit harder.

All the benzo RC's are legal again -- there is a demand. I DEMAND IT. lol
 
AngelsandFairiesarereal said:
Yea I would like it too.
I don’t understand US laws much, it seems to be all over the place. Whenever I go to Puerto Rico to visit family I can get whatever I want at pharmacies over the counter as long as you ask (away from the tourist spots). I know it’s ‘technically’ the US but it’s different over there. Kind of wish the pharmacies were like that over here.
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Well, I've been wanting to visit PR for a long time now, so now I have another reason!
 
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