News FDA seeks to classify 7-OH as Schedule 1

[gymguy30]

Bullshit. Kratom has fucked up withdrawals for people taking even a gram a day for more than a year.

It’s awful. You’ll shit. You’ll feel bad constantly. No sleep whatsoever. Need time off from work.

To kratom a credit. No matter the duration
Of use. Once you take your last dose. Most people feel physically well at about two weeks. But most people experience a worsening of symptoms to a height at day six

I’m just saying — personally, I never experienced any withdrawals from kratom worth even mentioning. Nothing remotely close to 7-OH withdrawals, and definitely nowhere near the hell that comes with real opiates.

I’m not denying some people go through it rough, but let’s not exaggerate like it’s the same for everyone. For a lot of us, plain leaf kratom was manageable — and honestly, a lifesaver when trying to get off harder stuff. The withdrawals people describe from a gram a day sound more like a freak case than the norm.

Everyone’s body reacts differently, sure — but let’s keep the perspective real.

 

[helpingout]

I’m just saying — personally, I never experienced any withdrawals from kratom worth even mentioning. Nothing remotely close to 7-OH withdrawals, and definitely nowhere near the hell that comes with real opiates.

I’m not denying some people go through it rough, but let’s not exaggerate like it’s the same for everyone. For a lot of us, plain leaf kratom was manageable — and honestly, a lifesaver when trying to get off harder stuff. The withdrawals people describe from a gram a day sound more like a freak case than the norm.

Everyone’s body reacts differently, sure — but let’s keep the perspective real.

Stop taking kratom now. No next dose. Last two weeks. I’ll give you a prize.

 

[helpingout]

I’m just saying — personally, I never experienced any withdrawals from kratom worth even mentioning. Nothing remotely close to 7-OH withdrawals, and definitely nowhere near the hell that comes with real opiates.

I’m not denying some people go through it rough, but let’s not exaggerate like it’s the same for everyone. For a lot of us, plain leaf kratom was manageable — and honestly, a lifesaver when trying to get off harder stuff. The withdrawals people describe from a gram a day sound more like a freak case than the norm.

Everyone’s body reacts differently, sure — but let’s keep the perspective real.

You know what’s fucking hilariously ironic about your perspective.

Your describing the hell of 7oh withdrawal talking shit on a gram a day habit.

Most kratom is 2% mitragynine and that converts into 7oh

So a gram a day kratom habit is kinda like taking 10-20mg of 7oh every day.

And no matter what

When you take plain leaf kratom

You are withdrawing from 7oh


You’ve disproved your own point while also proving that the 7oh hysteria response is a misguided witch-hunt.


When you say kratom withdrawal is manageable for most people you are in effect saying 7oh withdrawal is manageable for most people.


You can’t advocate for kratom without advocating for 7oh

Kratom is a pro drug.

And Kratom withdrawal is the same hell as 7oh withdrawal. The intensity just gets turned up for those taking pure.

Kratom users and 7oh users are both withdrawaling from the same drug.

So what is it?

Is 7oh withdrawal the cakewalk you make it out to be when defending kratom or the hell you describe when villifying 7oh?

Because taking plain leaf or 7oh you’re withdrawing from the same drug.

 

[gymguy30]

You know what’s fucking hilariously ironic about your perspective.

Your describing the hell of 7oh withdrawal talking shit on a gram a day habit.

Most kratom is 2% mitragynine and that converts into 7oh

So a gram a day kratom habit is kinda like taking 10-20mg of 7oh every day.

And no matter what

When you take plain leaf kratom

You are withdrawing from 7oh


You’ve disproved your own point while also proving that the 7oh hysteria response is a misguided witch-hunt.


When you say kratom withdrawal is manageable for most people you are in effect saying 7oh withdrawal is manageable for most people.


You can’t advocate for kratom without advocating for 7oh

Kratom is a pro drug.

And Kratom withdrawal is the same hell as 7oh withdrawal. The intensity just gets turned up for those taking pure.

Kratom users and 7oh users are both withdrawaling from the same drug.

So what is it?

Is 7oh withdrawal the cakewalk you make it out to be when defending kratom or the hell you describe when villifying 7oh?

Because taking plain leaf or 7oh you’re withdrawing from the same drug.

My man, there’s no need to be cussing at me. I’m just sharing my experience — I have no reason to lie.

Now I will admit, once I found 7-OH, I completely quit kratom and got up very quickly to using 500mg to 1000mg a day for about 5–6 months. So trust me when I say — I know the difference firsthand.

You’re not wrong that mitragynine can convert into 7-OH, but that doesn’t make plain leaf kratom and pure 7-OH the same thing. That’s like saying beer and Everclear are equal because they both contain alcohol. It’s about potency, delivery, and how the body processes it. Everyone metabolizes mitragynine differently — some barely convert it at all.

I used high doses of plain kratom leaf for years and quit cold turkey multiple times with minimal withdrawals. But 7-OH? That stuff had me by the throat. Withdrawals were rough, the mental fog was insane, and the tolerance climbed fast. It wasn’t even comparable.

So when people say kratom withdrawal is manageable, and that 7-OH is a different animal — they’re not contradicting themselves. They’re acknowledging the difference between a natural plant with dozens of balancing alkaloids… and a single, isolated compound that hits hard and fast.

You can advocate for kratom without blindly defending 7-OH. They are not the same experience. Respectfully.

 

[gymguy30]

Stop taking kratom now. No next dose. Last two weeks. I’ll give you a prize.

Just to be clear — I haven’t touched kratom in about a year, and I quit 7-OH about 3 months ago.

When I was using kratom, I was doing 15–20 grams per dose, a few times a day. And I still quit cold turkey, by myself, multiple times — usually when I went on vacation or just felt like giving my body a break. Like I’ve said, I have no reason to lie — I experienced little to no withdrawal. Maybe a little fatigue or irritability, but nothing that made me feel trapped.

Now 7-OH? That’s a totally different story. I tried quitting cold turkey multiple times — couldn’t do it. The withdrawals were brutal. If I went 8–10 hours without it, I felt like absolute hell. Not quite like full-on opiates, but not far off either. Eventually, I had to get on Subutex just to get off it.

So again — I get that people love to compare kratom to 7-OH like they’re the same thing, but from actual experience? They’re not even close. The dependency, the withdrawals, the mental and physical toll — 7-OH hits way harder.

 

[helpingout]

My man, there’s no need to be cussing at me. I’m just sharing my experience — I have no reason to lie.

Now I will admit, once I found 7-OH, I completely quit kratom and got up very quickly to using 500mg to 1000mg a day for about 5–6 months. So trust me when I say — I know the difference firsthand.

You’re not wrong that mitragynine can convert into 7-OH, but that doesn’t make plain leaf kratom and pure 7-OH the same thing. That’s like saying beer and Everclear are equal because they both contain alcohol. It’s about potency, delivery, and how the body processes it. Everyone metabolizes mitragynine differently — some barely convert it at all.

I used high doses of plain kratom leaf for years and quit cold turkey multiple times with minimal withdrawals. But 7-OH? That stuff had me by the throat. Withdrawals were rough, the mental fog was insane, and the tolerance climbed fast. It wasn’t even comparable.

So when people say kratom withdrawal is manageable, and that 7-OH is a different animal — they’re not contradicting themselves. They’re acknowledging the difference between a natural plant with dozens of balancing alkaloids… and a single, isolated compound that hits hard and fast.

You can advocate for kratom without blindly defending 7-OH. They are not the same experience. Respectfully.

Respectfully ,

Beer withdrawal is manageable, and that ethanol, it’s a different animal. They’re acknowledging the difference between a fermented wheat beverage with carbohydrates and dozens of balancing poly phenols … and a single isolated compound that hits hard and fast.

You can advocate for beer without blindly defending ethanol. They’re are not the same experience.


Every beer drinker in hell just rolled over

Delirium tremens occur in both beer drinkers and evervlear drinkers and in both the seizures can lead to death.

The molecule is identical.

Withdrawaling off more compounds doesn’t make the withdrawal easier it makes it more complex.

Quitting kratom means quitting 7oh.

Kratoms only fail safe against 7oh addiction spiraling like the experience you described is that plain leaf kratom is fucking disgusting. I couldn’t stomach more than 80g a day. And even then that’s at a bare minimum 40-80mg 7oh a day for poor and efficient metabolizers. It’s sludge at that point t. You can’t supersaturate it beyond that.

So kratom has a natural ceiling via the form of the product and it’s metabolism into 7 in the liver, but that does not make withdrawaling from the 7 nor every alkaloid in your kilo any easier than if you had taken only the 7 you metabolized directly as 7 in equivalent amounts.

You’re withdrawal either way would be the hellish experience of opiate withdrawal.

 

[helpingout]

Just to be clear — I haven’t touched kratom in about a year, and I quit 7-OH about 3 months ago.

When I was using kratom, I was doing 15–20 grams per dose, a few times a day. And I still quit cold turkey, by myself, multiple times — usually when I went on vacation or just felt like giving my body a break. Like I’ve said, I have no reason to lie — I experienced little to no withdrawal. Maybe a little fatigue or irritability, but nothing that made me feel trapped.

Now 7-OH? That’s a totally different story. I tried quitting cold turkey multiple times — couldn’t do it. The withdrawals were brutal. If I went 8–10 hours without it, I felt like absolute hell. Not quite like full-on opiates, but not far off either. Eventually, I had to get on Subutex just to get off it.

So again — I get that people love to compare kratom to 7-OH like they’re the same thing, but from actual experience? They’re not even close. The dependency, the withdrawals, the mental and physical toll — 7-OH hits way harder.

I’m glad your withdrawals from kratom were no trouble at all. Good for you.

Im glad you got off 7 too. That’s good to hear as well.

I’ve made my points and I’ve heard yours. I’m going to exit the discussion for a bit.

Have a great day!

 

[gymguy30]

Respectfully ,

Beer withdrawal is manageable, and that ethanol, it’s a different animal. They’re acknowledging the difference between a fermented wheat beverage with carbohydrates and dozens of balancing poly phenols … and a single isolated compound that hits hard and fast.

You can advocate for beer without blindly defending ethanol. They’re are not the same experience.


Every beer drinker in hell just rolled over

Delirium tremens occur in both beer drinkers and evervlear drinkers and in both the seizures can lead to death.

The molecule is identical.

Withdrawaling off more compounds doesn’t make the withdrawal easier it makes it more complex.

Quitting kratom means quitting 7oh.

Kratoms only fail safe against 7oh addiction spiraling like the experience you described is that plain leaf kratom is fucking disgusting. I couldn’t stomach more than 80g a day. And even then that’s at a bare minimum 40-80mg 7oh a day for poor and efficient metabolizers. It’s sludge at that point t. You can’t supersaturate it beyond that.

So kratom has a natural ceiling via the form of the product and it’s metabolism into 7 in the liver, but that does not make withdrawaling from the 7 nor every alkaloid in your kilo any easier than if you had taken only the 7 you metabolized directly as 7 in equivalent amounts.

You’re withdrawal either way would be the hellish experience of opiate withdrawal.

Respectfully — I understand the chemistry argument, but I’ve actually lived through both kratom and 7-OH addiction, and the difference is massive.

7-OH was one of the most addictive substances I’ve ever used — and that says a lot coming from someone who was once hooked on real Roxy’s, taking 150–200mg daily and hitting 900mg in a single day at my worst. But even with that background, 7-OH had one of the strongest mental grips on me.

I was taking it every 2–4 hours, and god forbid I went 10 hours without a dose — the withdrawals were brutal. Worse than anything I ever felt from kratom. I tried to quit cold turkey multiple times and couldn’t do it. I had to get on Subutex just to break free.

And here’s the wild part: I’m not even someone with an addictive personality. I don’t chase highs, I don’t bounce from substance to substance. But with 7-OH, I was spending money like a crackhead. Every dollar went to keeping that supply going. It had me in a chokehold.

Now kratom? Totally different story. I was doing 15–20g per dose, multiple times a day for years — and I quit cold turkey multiple times without needing help. Sure, I felt a little off, maybe tired or foggy, but nothing close to the nightmare of 7-OH withdrawal.

So yeah, I get it — kratom metabolizes into 7-OH. But that doesn’t mean the experience is the same. Kratom has a natural ceiling, a slower onset, and multiple alkaloids that balance each other out. 7-OH is isolated, potent, and fast-acting — and for some of us, that combination becomes a whole different experience.

Same molecule on paper doesn’t mean the same effect in real life.

 

[gymguy30]

I’m glad your withdrawals from kratom were no trouble at all. Good for you.

Im glad you got off 7 too. That’s good to hear as well.

I’ve made my points and I’ve heard yours. I’m going to exit the discussion for a bit.

Have a great day!

Appreciate the civil response, man — seriously.

I know our experiences differ, but that’s what makes these conversations valuable. I’m not here to argue for the sake of it, just sharing my truth the same way you shared yours.

Thanks for hearing me out, and yeah — getting off 7 was no joke, so I appreciate the acknowledgment.

 

[helpingout]

Appreciate the civil response, man — seriously.

I know our experiences differ, but that’s what makes these conversations valuable. I’m not here to argue for the sake of it, just sharing my truth the same way you shared yours.

Thanks for hearing me out, and yeah — getting off 7 was no joke, so I appreciate the acknowledgment.

Yeah. Agreed. 7 was difficult to get off but I used it as a tool to get off kratom. The withdrawals are much more I te se than kratom but for me I was able to replace kratom for three days of 7 and then jump from the 7. It was easier to already be off all those alkaloids.

It’s a shame that kratom and 7 are goi g to go illegal.

Kratom bridged me down a rung from heroin -> bupe -> kratom -> 7 and now when I’m craving a lapse I take some turmeric curcumin and some piperine and a single dose of seven. It’s more manageable but it’s so easy to fall into daily use. As easy as any opiate really. But 7 loses its honeymoon phase real fast. You start getting sober a lot faster and the. There’s this gnaw to take more.

7 is really the drug in this classic.

 

[gymguy30]

Yeah. Agreed. 7 was difficult to get off but I used it as a tool to get off kratom. The withdrawals are much more I te se than kratom but for me I was able to replace kratom for three days of 7 and then jump from the 7. It was easier to already be off all those alkaloids.

It’s a shame that kratom and 7 are goi g to go illegal.

Kratom bridged me down a rung from heroin -> bupe -> kratom -> 7 and now when I’m craving a lapse I take some turmeric curcumin and some piperine and a single dose of seven. It’s more manageable but it’s so easy to fall into daily use. As easy as any opiate really. But 7 loses its honeymoon phase real fast. You start getting sober a lot faster and the. There’s this gnaw to take more.

7 is really the drug in this classic.

Facts. One of the worst parts about both kratom and 7-OH is how they completely kill the effects of real opiates. Like if you ever “slip up” and take a couple legit oxys — it’s flat. No magic. No euphoria. Just a waste.

It’s like they hijack your receptors so hard that even when you try to go back, nothing hits the same. It’s honestly a blessing and a curse — maybe it helps keep some people from relapsing fully, but it also shows just how strong of a grip these substances have. Even if you’re clean off heroin or pills, you’re still stuck dancing around with stuff that has the same stranglehold on your system.

People don’t talk about that enough — how they mess with your brain chemistry long after the “natural plant” marketing fades away.

 

[JackARoe]

The industry got greedy and we are honestly lucky that they are looking to exempt the plant itself from the ban.

Nice write up tryptakid. I had mentioned to survive the Earth as it is in 2025 we have to be wise like an owl and sly like a fox. None of which happened with the vendors and partially users either. I mean I believe in a world where we can talk and discuss things like this, but we are all too aware of prying eyes. 20 years ago people were using "swim" but we learned that was silly. I do not have an answer. But let me ask this? What mommy of younger children want their children vaping large amounts of 7-OH? What did we think would happen? Then again as people that use drugs I totally understand wanting info and enjoying discussion. Again, no answers other than we need something that protects all plants and their contents. Keep the law off of all plants.

Yes we are lucky, for now, it seems plain leaf and probably extracts are safe. But I also believe the AKA should have protected the plant and all plants. Not act in a way that makes them part of the problem. They made 7-OH to be the "bad guy" when it is nature.

If we want laws make the vendors honest with what they claim to sell. Go after shady vendors, leave the honorable ones alone.

But if leaf is safe for now, what about 3 years from now? IF we don't get smart about plants we'll never solve this shit. But I don't know what that is.

Lastly the DEA has a comment period. Use it. Probably won't do anything (although it did with plain leaf kratom) but trying is better than not trying.

Facts. One of the worst parts about both kratom and 7-OH is how they completely kill the effects of real opiates. Like if you ever “slip up” and take a couple legit oxys — it’s flat. No magic. No euphoria. Just a waste.

A solid week off worked for me, my wife and some others on the board. Doubtful anything is permanent. And I can say morphine taken over kratom makes it like I did not even take kratom as morphine is stronger. This effect, which I believe is more due to tolerance than any blocking effect, actually helped me to not want or need the lighter pain pills because I knew they would be ineffective unless I took a week off. But I did try that about a week after stopping kratom (plain leaf) and their effects were back in full force. I think there is a lot of info on BL about people that take pain meds and rotate kratom.

 

[Opana313]

To put it more simply. I don’t believe anyone who is currently taking kratom for more than five years could quit today and not experience acute withdrawal syndrome.

Trust me they are probably in withdrawal every morning by then or even way less time.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

^And from a complex array of alkaloids not just 7 oh. Grabbed me .4 before that ish happens (Will get more but ya know money)

 

[N1GHTMAR313]

Right I am about to stock the fuck up on leaf, powdered leaf, capsules, and 70h because I believe you're right. Shoot I need to check out this tianeptine stuff too..although that's just for pure curiosity. But yeah I just need like a bathtub full of red vein/ maeng da and I'll be..content?
Wish I could save pills like that. It's getting easier with saving benzos bc I only take them when I really need them instead of taking them to stack on top of shit.
I wish I had a Shulgin stash of growing hallucinogens(along with the lab lol), buds growing everywhere and poppy plants, and medicine cabinet that never ends..

Really wish someone would find the key to narcotic withdrawal, I think if you can eliminate the acute mental and physical, then dependency wouldn't be as big of a problem.

Opioid withdrawal is destroyed by small doses of benzos and meth and gabapentin, too. The darkweb is the never-ending source for all things scheduled. Can't find ibogaine or 18-MC though. That's the wonderamaful end all be all of addiction. Stops self administration of heroin, alcohol, cocaine, nicotine and sugar in lab test animals. Resets brain receptors back to birth. You never get cravings, because you simply forget what the shit felt like. Ibogaine does come with a pretty severe 3 day acid-like trip but 18-MC has that little effect negated. If buprenorphine and naltrexone and rehabs didn't make so much money, we might have ibogaine and its derivatives not as schedule 1 class A controlled substances (narcotics specifically mean opiates, fuck what the government says) but readily available honest to God addiction HELP!

 

[Opana313]

Opioid withdrawal is destroyed by small doses of benzos and meth and gabapentin, too. The darkweb is the never-ending source for all things scheduled. Can't find ibogaine or 18-MC though. That's the wonderamaful end all be all of addiction. Stops self administration of heroin, alcohol, cocaine, nicotine and sugar in lab test animals. Resets brain receptors back to birth. You never get cravings, because you simply forget what the shit felt like. Ibogaine does come with a pretty severe 3 day acid-like trip but 18-MC has that little effect negated. If buprenorphine and naltrexone and rehabs didn't make so much money, we might have ibogaine and its derivatives not as schedule 1 class A controlled substances (narcotics specifically mean opiates, fuck what the government says) but readily available honest to God addiction HELP!

I have noticed amphetamine helping a bit with wd and gabapentin to an extent because it makes my legs hurt more and yeah benzooo.

Really though? This is hella interesting 18-MC ..research begins when work day starts to blow.

Thanks for your input man

 

[Chickens]

My concern is that regular kratom may get caught up in this. 7-OH is a totally different beast than standard raw kratom. I'm really not in favor of total bans on any substance, but kratom itself, while not harmless, is just not comparable to 7-oh despite their chemical relationship.

Your concern is valid, and I share it. On other forums, especially among kratom only users, they cheer whenever there's a ban for 7 passed. Even if they say they're going to leave kratom alone, do people really think they're going to just leave the precursor for a schedule 1 narcotic alone?

The technical argument could be made that if 7-hydroxymitragynine is made illegal, than mitragynine could be considered an analog, and that's completely ignoring the fact that mitragynine is converted, partly, to 7-hydroxymitragynine in your body.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

I think there is a lot of info on BL about people that take pain meds and rotate kratom.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

7oh & pseudo has been a different beast for me than regular leaf Kratom … just my experience. I got super strung out on it and ended up in hell, spent thousands of dollars on it and was struggling every 2 hours to get out of withdrawal but also getting tons of shitty symptoms on it as well. I know everyone’s different but things never got that out of control with plain leaf for me.

To be fair I was taking 700 plus mgs & pseudo a day … so idk. But things never got THAT crazy for me with plain leaf.

I’m trying to just go back to reg pain meds and ‘if’ or when needed plain leaf. I was 30 days off 7oh and pseudo and just relapsed a couple days ago for only 4 days. I was like wtf am I doing again and stopped and started feeling some withdrawal even from those 4 days lol idk 7oh & pseudo is some weird shit.

Anyways what am I even saying here … it’s like I’m writing in a diary or something … lol

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

7oh & pseudo has been a different beast for me than regular leaf Kratom … just my experience. I got super strung out on it and ended up in hell, spent thousands of dollars on it and was struggling every 2 hours to get out of withdrawal but also getting tons of shitty symptoms on it as well. I know everyone’s different but things never got that out of control with plain leaf for me.

To be fair I was taking 700 plus mgs & pseudo a day … so idk. But things never got THAT crazy for me with plain leaf.

I’m trying to just go back to reg pain meds and ‘if’ or when needed plain leaf. I was 30 days off 7oh and pseudo and just relapsed a couple days ago for only 4 days. I was like wtf am I doing again and stopped and started feeling some withdrawal even from those 4 days lol idk 7oh & pseudo is some weird shit.

Anyways what am I even saying here … it’s like I’m writing in a diary or something … lol

Definitely different beasts -- like snorting coke v chewing cocoa leaves. Eating pods to shooting heroin.

Was there ever a minute you thought it was the same beast? If so, why?