Father of a heroin girl - in jail for possession

[oliphill]

Methadone or suboxone is the answer to this situation. here is my reasoning.
1. Most rehabs have an extremely high relapse rate like 85-90 percent in the first year.
2. She is gonna use the first time she thinks she can get away with it.
3.the only way to change 2 is time.
4.substitution therapy buys you time which is what she needs anyway you look at the equation.

Suboxone didnt work for her. And methadone is a complete joke. I, personally, used every day I was on methadone. It's an evil drug and fucking hard to get off.

Possibly look into naltrexone implant and some therapy or treatment

 

[junctionalfunkie]

Hi icelated, I remember your old thread well. First off, I'm glad to hear that your daughter is alive, even if she's in some trouble.

I don't have any advice for you that hasn't already been given.... yes, you will definitely need an attorney for your daughter.

This would probably garner a lot more useful help in Legal Discussion.

As I remember, your daughter was pretty bad.... perpetual relapsing, etc.

Robert Downey Jr. gave an interview in Rolling Stone a few months back and said something like "When that cell door slams shut, there is no safer place for an addict, provided you have the right cellie." Very true.

Do everything you can to keep your girl's record clean, but more important than a clean record is a clean girl.

Good luck.

 

[icelated]

And she definitely needs to break from her "boyfriend".... time-served will take care of the chemical part, and she'll likely be prohibited from being around other felons/etc on the outs as a condition of bond or probation....
When he gets out, tell your girl that if she gets back with him..... you're done. Cut her off. You did all that you could as a loving parent.... but sometimes yeh just can't hold onto them cause they wanna do their own thing.
And her seeing that guy means instant relapse. I'd bet a lot of money on it, if I had any money.

I couldnt agree more with this. Hes the big reason why she keeps relapsing. the big reason why she left detox this last time and got busted.

I will not bail her out of jail. She needs time to think about what shes done and hopefully not want to go back. People are already telling her that prison is easier than jail because they give you activities to do. I am sure there some truth to that but cant imagine prison is better.

I am not sure if bailing her out of this one is the right thing to do. I dont mean bailing her out of jail. Maybe, i should just let her have a court appointed attorney and have some probation so she dont relapse. I have to safely assume that she wont get out at her pre trail. I wonder how long after her pretrial is her trial? She seems to think that she should plead guilty and she will be out in 20 days vs pleading not guilty and waiting a month or 2 for her trial. I told her to plead not guilty.

 

[carrion Doll]

She seriously needs to stop listening to the girls in jail. Most of the time, the other people in jail do not give good advice. Most of them are career addicts that are used to this type of life. You do not want that for her. Probation without treatment is asking to fail. Even with treatment , IMO, probation isn't going to work for her from what you have told us about her so far. Probation is very hard for addicts to complete and I am telling you there is very little chance for her to be successful on it. This is even coming from someone who did complete 5 years felony probation with 1 years drug offender probation and 2 years house arrest. But I am a rare case. In my area probation is set up for you to fail. They do everything they can to trip you up. It is not set up to help people as they want you to believe. I really urge you to get her a good lawyer.

And yes, compared to county, prison is a tiny bit better. But still no place you want to be. As I said, the people that are giving your girl advice, these are career addicts and street people, used to this life. In some situations, prison is better than the life they live on the street. Please urge her not to take what they say too seriously, she doesn't want the kind of life they have become accustomed to.

 

[mdmantpa]

I didnt read all the posts in between but I have a decent amount of experience in getting arrested for drug charges. If it is her first time the only good dropping cash for a decent lawyer would be to hopefully get it down to a misdemeanor and a suspended sentence, and will most likely cost about 5k.

This is really important if your daughter wants to quit and try to move on in life. With a felony conviction on your record you are basically screwed for life in all sorts of ways, where you can live, who will hire you, voting, etc.

If you see her going right back at it and ending up back in jail soon, then do not waste the money on a lawyer. I know it might sound harsh but I wish I wouldn't have paid for a lawyer the first few times because I wasn't ready to stop and it wouldn't have mattered anyways now, except I would have about 20k still in my pocket.

I hope all works out for her tho, best of luck

 

[carrion Doll]

Sorry to re post so soon but I just thought of something else. You said the boyfriend is locked up now to? Would now be a good time to get her into treatment and actually have a chance at her staying there? I mean, IF he was the reason she left before, maybe now with him part of the way out of the picture, she might stay and give it a shot? Still no guarantees of course, she has to want it. But maybe something to think on?

But please, please tell her to quit listening to the other girls. I mean she doesn't have to be rude to them or anything, just take it all with a grain of salt. I keep stressing this because I saw so much bad advice being given by "jailhouse lawyers" (as we call them) to young girls when I was in. Girls who did not have the kind of life these ladies are so used to. Just keep that in mind and good luck.

 

[bagochina]

If I didnt have lawyers for my past dope cases I definitely wouldnt be typing this now. I would be in jail [no doubt] and probably still using dope in the grey bar hotel. Once you get started in the system and you continue to use eventually most will fall prey to what it was designed to do. Thank God I made it out of that lifestyle and am clean [no meds/no drugs] quite a few of my friends are still sitting in jail all stemming from their drug addictions.

One other thing I will add, most people dont clean up when they get on probation. They continue to use and slip thru the cracks or they get on a stabilizing med [bupe, 'done] and complete probation, than start using again only to start the court cycle again. A smaller percentage stay clean if they dont violate probation by dirty drops and end up back in jail. Probation and courts were not made to help people get clean [some might argue that certain 'drug courts' are better geared toward getting a person actual help]. I know it didnt work for me.

Any incentive to get clean is a good one but when the state/govt. is looking over your shoulder at every little mistake you make it becomes well to much. If you hope this opens up her eyes I will hope with you.

peace.
seedless

I agree with the above person figure out some concrete plans for immediately after she gets out of the clink. Also IME 'trying' to clean up with a girlfriend NEVER WORKS so if she says they are going to rehab together you know what is coming.

 

[icelated]

I talked to her lawyer on Friday and he said they have a shitty offer for her to take. 20 days jail and 2 years probation. I told my daughter and she wants to take it. I asked him if he could get her treatment and knock it down to a misdemeanor. He said i dont think she is ready to quit. He said he would talk to her about it. She only wants to listen to her jail mates and not anyone else it seems. she also just wants out and not even thinking about all the other stuff. She doesn't want to plead not guilty because shes afraid that she will have to spend more than 20 days. I'm telling her shes stupid, but its hard to reason with her when all she cares about is getting out. Lets just hope her attorney talks some sense into her. Her jail mates are also telling her she will get little jail time(7 days) for a bad UA. Shes acting like probation is no big deal. I'm about ready to scream and walk away from all this stupidity. I told her to plead not guilty and if its past 20 days i will bail her out. We will see what happens. Im not thinking its going to turn out good for her.

 

[paranoid android]

Thats a very shitty deal and being on probation for 2 years would suck far worse then a lousy 20 days in the slammer. Id personally tell them to shove the deal up their arse but that is just me. You have to look at the fact that you can't even smoke a lousy joint or have a drink without worrying about a surprise piss test for 2 fucking years. 2 years is a long chunk out of your life too.

I can't give much advice as i live in canada not the US and the system is a good bit different down there. But i have honestly never seen anyone go through the prison or courts system and come out the better. Ive seen guys go in who where mostly alright only to come out a year later as gangsters who would stab you in the back for a $20 rock.

Try and talk some sense into her is all i can say really. And good luck to you ya sound like you need it

 

[cj]

she will use as soon as she is released. The lawyer is right she is not ready to quit. My advice is to chill and wait for her to fuck this all up then let her come to you to go to treatment. otherwise you will get burned every time. I am a heroin addict so I got some perspective on this.

 

[Dr.Genome]

Hi Corey,

I don't have much experience with legal issues, but I have something to offer about your daughter's addiction in general.

You need to see this instance as an opportunity to get your daughter proper treatment for the opiate habit, and I believe the best path to take is both counselling and pharmaceutical. Try to get her to see a doctor that will get her on Buprenorphine + naloxone (Suboxone) which will give her relief from withdrawal symptoms and at the same time block her from getting high off any heroin. This will give her the mental space to begin making changes. Failing this I would also advocate going on methadone as an alternative, although from talking to a specialist in this area it has a lower success rate and she will most likely be on it a lot longer.

In conclusion, one word: Suboxone.

I have seen many many former addicts benefit immensely from this medication. Try to get her on it while she is in prison and then get her all the emotional help possible, as well as keeping her away from her old friends and the temptations that lie there.

Not only will this help a lot in her court case with the doctor's reports and everything, but it will also give her the genuine biochemical support she needs to make changes.

All the best!

- K

 

[Dr.Genome]

On a side note, I am shocked that you get sent to prison in the US just for having a hit on you? And for first offense? Here in Australia you would just get a fine and be made sure you got treatment. What the hell does the State think they're achieving by sending drug addicts to jail? Won't do anything.

 

[carrion Doll]

Well, I hate to say it but looks like atm she is a lost cause. IDK about your state but here in Florida if you get a dirty UA, you either get violated and put in jail with no bond pending a hearing or you get put on the next level of supervision. That can be drug offender probation (with weekly UA's and other stricter rules) or house arrest. Sounds like she pretty much isn't going to make it and will just have to learn the hard way. I am sorry. Keep us posted.

 

[icelated]

I just wanted to tell people that i put her on suboxone before(twice). I spent hundreds of dollars in doctors visits and the prescription. It did no good for her. she wasn't taking it and probably selling it to get high. She has also tried methadone to stop but ended up abusing it.

I talked to her lawyer about getting the charge dropped to a misdemeanor and go to treatment. The only thing he said is i dont think she is ready. I mean can they do that for her? if it wasn't possible wouldn't the lawyer tell me when i asked him that? Anyways, honestly, i am not sure what she wants. I feel like shes not sure whats possible for her and that all she cares about is getting out of there as soon as possible. she has told me she will never use again but i am not convinced she wont go back to using. I just wish this was done with. I'm tired of thinking about my daughters addiction. I have made a decision that if she goes back to using when she gets out i am kicking her out and not going to take her phone calls until she is clean for 2 months. I will let her know that ahead of time.

She meets with her lawyer tomorrow so we will see what happens. I am thinking she will take it because she wants out asap. Her jail mates are also telling her that she only has to piss once a month and that probation is no big deal. What can i say to her, i have never been on probation! Anyways, if she goes back to using H there is no one time so she will fail a UA.

I will keep you posted

 

[Georgie25]

Yeah you gotta think about your own health from now on. It seems you care more about this than she does and I would agree she probally doesn't really want to get clean. Any addict who gets arrested and FORCED into rehab by the courts is just going to fake it to get out of jail. But who knows, perhaps while she is in there she will learn something and change? If not, you have to keep your bottom line, which is if she is using then you will have no contact with her. No money, no phone calls, no car/place to live, and no bailing her out of her own problems. When you continuously bail her out of her own bad situations, she'll keep thinking there's no reason to change, because she just passes off the consequences of her actions onto you..so until you put a stop to that don't keep expecting her not to use heroin.

Good luck! I know it's hard but it's what you're gonna have to do if she continues to use.

 

[Ixchellian]

Exactly what I thought the court would do. She'll get time-served, and become a way to make revenue.
The first plea thrown at people in for such petty shit is always gonna be like that, and they'll always say "This is the only one you're gonna get!" to scare people. The DA's know that most people will take it just to get out of lockup, and it clears another case off their books.

If she goes back to that particular shitbird, and/or starts using again.... Don't make it just two months clean to let her back in, or even two years. The only thing that matters is the next fix, and we'll step all over even the closest friends & family to get it. By hook or by crook, to a junky it doesn't matter.

Sorry to sound harsh, but that's what she is, and two months of nowhere near the amount of time & dedicated effort it takes to beat an opiate addiction. It takes years to tamp it down. There aren't any "cured" addicts, only ones who have managed to control and bury their addictions. But it'll still be there, and sometimes all it takes is just one or two lapses in control, and it's gonna come roaring back full force.

Getting her off the shit is gonna be nearly a lifetime's struggle. If she goes back, let her go, and don't try to save her. I know that as a parent it's a terrible thing to have to do, but if someone doesn't want to save themselves, nothing you can do will fix them.

But if she *does* clean herself up, get herself on her own feet, and become a memberr or society & your family, THEN welcome her back. Otherwise.... well.

 

[cj]

damn we are harsh considering I think most of us are opiate addicts right? If my parents took our advice I would be homeless instead of chilling in my dorm room in college. I dont doubt the girl deep down inside wants to get clean i mean who doesnt everyone hate being a junky thats the fucked up part. I think we should perhaps be a little more positive after all its easy to knock someone down its harder to pull them back up.

 

[icelated]

Ok, i talked to her lawyer today. My daughters boyfriend also called me today. He is pleading guilty and will be released today with 10 days work crew and i think 1 year probation and a no contact order on my daughter. I guess he is fine with that and wants to move and and stop using.

Her lawyer said she is eligible for diversion. I am not sure what diversion entails? I know she will have to complete treatment but will she have to not screw up while on probation or she spends alot of time in jail? I mean what would be better 10 days in jail 10 days work crew and one year probation? or diversion?

He also talked to her when she was still detoxing and thinks she is happy using, and doesn't want to quit. I dont know what to think! i have my doubts she will ever quit. I only see death or prison time for her and that kills me. I have had t though. If she relapses im done with her and i will not help or talk to her until she shows me shes been clean for along time. This is so hard walking away from your own kid. Its almost like pretending they are dead.

Her lawyer couldn't understand why she was an addict because shes so beautiful and was a dancer at school and a cheerleader i college. I didn't know what to tell him. =(

She has court this friday. The lawyer didn't sound like he was going to talk to her until Friday but i dont see how that's possible since they need to give her a plea deal before so she has time to think about it? not a couple of hours before court or at court? Not sure how it works. Maybe, they are still trying to work everything out and when they do they will confront her with a deal? Because, they lawyer told me what they were going to offer he but they havent talked to her yet.

She was also found with some blue pills on her. I guess he said they are bueperene or something like that. He said that sometimes dealers give them those instead of heroin? This is the first time i have heard about this. My daughter has never talked about this before.

 

[Ixchellian]

They're both pleading out on the felonies?

Her lawyer couldn't understand why she was an addict because shes so beautiful and was a dancer at school and a cheerleader i college. I didn't know what to tell him. =(

Because junk is the great equalizer. It will pull even a person on the highest perch of life, or the lowest low to the baseline on which we who were/are junkys exist. That is the fix and the visceral need, with the psychic need riding the monkey itself. Very little else matters when your very own body is fighting against you. It's extremely hard to overcome it and claw your way back up.

She was also found with some blue pills on her. I guess he said they are bueperene or something like that. He said that sometimes dealers give them those instead of heroin? This is the first time i have heard about this. My daughter has never talked about this before.

The little blue pills, with an M on one side, and a 15 on the other, could very well be MS Contin.... Morphine Sulfate, only in a time-release form. They're handy for the times between fixes.

 

[carrion Doll]

Yes they give plea deals when you are sitting right there is court and no time to think on it. The system does not care, all the want is $$. That's it, they are not there to help, they are not even there to dole out "justice" (whatever that means anymore). I have been dealing with the system between me and my husband for some years and it is totally fucked. So yes, that is what they will do to her as well.

IDK about where you live but diversion here goes something like this. You will be given a period of time, usually 6-9 months, where you will pay 60-90 dollars a month "supervision cost". You will also have to pay off your court fines and take any classes or treatment they send you to. It is like probation in the way that if you get caught doing anything you will get a violation and be sentenced accordingly. But with a diversion, you do not actually have to see a probation officer and you are not drug tested. It is an extremely easy way out on a charge like this. Pisses me off actually because it is what I should have gotten for my measly petty theft charge, but they always railroad me in court. Every damned time.

But enough about me, heh. Considering she will probably still use, this will be good for her as far as not having to drop urine every month. But she CANNOT get caught doing ANYTHING. Or they will treat it like a regular violation of probation. That is, IF diversion there is similar to here. Try googling it, you may get some useful info on diversion in your state. My understanding is it is pretty much similar in all states.