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Father of a heroin girl - in jail for possession

I

icelated

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
49
Hello everyone,

You may remember me from previous posts awhile back regarding my daughters addiction. If not, Quesions for heroin addicts - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=429556 and Father of a heroin girl
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=470194

Anyways, she was busted for possession of heroin and paraphernalia(needle) a class C felony, along with her boyfriend in Washington state. I am not sure what the amount was, i am assuming just enough to get high. she usually panhandles to get high so im hoping it wasn't much. This is her first offense.

She has a court appointed attorney at this point and has court / pre trail on the 20th. Her inmate are telling her to plead guilty and that she will only get 20 days. I told her to plead not guilty and we might get an attorney. At this point i am glad i didn't bail her out and i am trying to let her own up to her own addiction. Has anyone been sentenced for possession of heroin? Whats your experience? I feel like she is getting bad advice by pleading guilty. Her lawyer told her to plead not guilty. I am trying to track him down and talk to him.

She called me tonight and said she plans to plead not guilty. not sure why this change of heart i guess she must have talked to a different group of girls since she said they moved her to a new pod. I am hoping they will release her on the 20th. Not sure if we will need to get an attorney for a first offense like this? Also, i am not sure what the cost could be either for an attorney? over $5,000?

any input is much appreciated.

Corey
 
The most I ever received from poss. of h was 2 years probation. I am not to sure on Washington laws but she might be able to get a drug diversion or expungable upon completion. I would also say get her a lawyer and fight the charges depending on the circumstances. I would think it would range from $500-5000 for a poss. charge much cheaper than a DUI. In the past I would notice that people who didnt bail out had a harder time beating the charge and I always wondered if it was something a judge looked at. Thats the thing you never know what will happen. I had a poss. case get thrown out because the cop didnt show.

Or they release her with time served but I doubt it with all the stupid drug laws. Here in Chicago usually a first poss. of h and you get an I-bond [released on your signature], NJ I hear it is a misdemeanor [which is how it should be].

I would think the main thing would be what is she going to do when she gets out? Hopefully she will want to try and stay clean. Its a great thing that she still has the support from you, her dad. Trying to battle an addiction alone is hard to do and reduces the chances.

peace.
seedless
 
Well..... hmmm

Is a Class-C Felony the lowest felony?

Ok.... the way this works is that the DA will throw a bullshit guilty plea offer first. For something like this, I doubt she'd do more than 30-days, including time-served. Then after she gets out, I'm sure they're gonna want to slap her with all kinds of mandatory stuff & probation.
The reason they throw bullshit pleas at defendants first, is because it clears the court's case logs faster. If the defendant takes the plea, they get out but will be under the thumb of the court, and likely paying some fines too.
Now..... she can deny their first plea-deal and tell 'em fuck-off. *Usually* after that, and she's getting closer to the trial-date, they'll make one more plea-deal. That one is usually the best to take. There's also a legal proceedure where she can accept the deal, but "with conditions". Basically, it means that she'll take the court's final guilty-plea deal; but if she voluntarily goes to rehab/etc, she would like the felony reduced to a Class A misdemeanor or whatever.
They'll usually say ok, because when something petty like this actually goes to trial, it costs them a lot of money. And she really doesn't need to be a convicted felon, if it can be minimized to a misdemeanor.

I got a really expensive lawyer when I got locked down with a class-6 felony (the lowest felony in Colorado) hanging over my head. And he was handy because he basically acted as a go-between between the DA, judge, and me. Otherwise I wouldn't have had the time to play the guilty-plea game.... Without a lawyer, I wouldn't have known enough to eventually take a guilty plea, but with my own conditions. Even if the DA wanted to hammer me, it's really up to the judge. My lawyer did a lot of things, and it cost around $5k..... and I didn't get the felony, just a class-3 misdemeanor.

Your daughter really has to play to the judge that she wants to reform herself and become a productive member of society. If the judge is human enough, and it's her first offense, they'll usually take pity and give her a slap on the wrist.
But tell her.... really.... she needs to get that felony reduced to a misdemeanor. If she gets a public-defender, they really need to work the judge on how badly she wants to rehab herself.
But it needs to not be bullshit.
The 30-day jail detox is really effective, but only if she uses it right. It gives you a lot of time to think and figure things out.

But the most dangerous time for a relapse is right when she gets out. A lot of people get out and go nuts on the first day of freedom. Watch her closely and try to help her avoid a relapse.... especially if she's on probation.
 
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for an attorney on a felony possession, $ 3500 5000 would be the norm. more if a jury is involved.

you not bailing her out is a good idea for a number of reasons, one of which is credit towards her sentence as time served. 90 days in jail, 2 years supervised and three more unsupervised probation, and treatment/rehab.
the extent of her treatment plan will depend on the interview, drug of choice, time abused, and/or route of administration.
$ 2500 is a common fine.


im sorry all this is happening, but maybe this will be a good wake up call...
 
bagochina said:
T I am not to sure on Washington laws but she might be able to get a drug diversion or expungable upon completion.
Click to expand...

Is this something that would be offered as a plea after she pleaded not guilty?
The reason why i haven't bailed her out yet is i want her to have some type of repercussions for her addiction. I dont want to take this away from her. I dont want her to get right out and use. At least, she is clean and is not ticking a needle in her arm. I hope she will stay clean. I am also afraid of bailing her out and having her not show up for court. I did call a lawyer office and they said wait to see what happens on the 20th. I am hoping that it wont cost me more than $3,000 for this case! I dont even think at this point she knows shes going to have a huge fine to pay. <sigh> I hope this is a huge wake up call for her. Her boyfriend is still in jail also and will have pre trial on the 20th also.

Ixchellian said:
Ok.... the way this works is that the DA will throw a bullshit guilty plea offer first. For something like this, I doubt she'd do more than 30-days, including time-served. Then after she gets out, I'm sure they're gonna want to slap her with all kinds of mandatory stuff & probation.
The reason they throw bullshit pleas at defendants first, is because it clears the court's case logs faster.
Click to expand...

Are you sure they will give her 2 plea offers? I would hate to see her pass up one up and have to go to trial and get a bad sentence..
 
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It's called a "suspended sentence".... basically she'll get out free & clear, with some probation and a fine. But if she messes up and gets nailed again for whatever reason (like a dirty UA), that suspended sentence will be instantly applied.
But if she makes it through probation, pays the fines, and does what the court requires, that suspended sentence will disappear.

I know about how badly she'll want to get bailed out. Don't do it, as mentioned before, the time-served.
And she'll detox for real.... kicking junk in lock-up is terribly unpleasant, but she won't die. Jails do have a med-cart and nurse that goes around, and if she's detoxing they can give her things like clonidine & flexeril.
So it's not like she'll just be kicking without any help.
She needs to really look at herself while shes in there.

If you really want to make an impact on her, write her letters. Getting mail while you're locked-up feels really good, and is something that can be kept & re-read. Letters are cheaper too than using those damn jail-phones.
 
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Ixchellian said:
It's called a "suspended sentence".... basically she'll get out free & clear, with some probation and a fine. But if she messes up and gets nailed again for whatever reason (like a dirty UA), that suspended sentence will be instantly applied.
But if she makes it through probation, pays the fines, and does what the court requires, that suspended sentence will disappear.
Click to expand...

Alright, so they may give her like a 2 year sentence but only serve 30 days ( suspended sentence) on conditions and if she has any probation violations like a dirty UA she will have to spend 2 years in jail.

I personally hope she gets long term treatment. She was in the process of going to treatment when this happened. she checked herself into detox and was planning on staying in and going to a 3 month + treatment before she left detox after one day and got popped. <ouch>

She has been a IV heroin addict for 2 years. she has been to 3 treatment centers.
 
Please do 2 things. a) tell her not to take advice from other inmates. They will tell you anything. I mean there are nice people inside on occasion that might actually want to help but you never really know. You have to think about the kind of people she might be locked up with. Not saying everyone in jail is bad. Lord knows I have been in enough times myself. But you just never know who you can trust so it is best to trust no one. Anyone with half a brain and jail experience will tell you, you don't make friends in jail. And b) get the poor girl a real lawyer. Those court appointed idiots are worse then some inmates. They work for the state, they will fuck her, with the exception of a few and you never know who the good ones are til it's too late. We call them public pretenders instead of public defenders. They are toxic assholes.

No one can tell you what is going to happen to her. Every judge is different. I have gone up for charges that 99% of people go for and get a certain sentence and BAM! I get hit with some crazy ass long probation with crazy conditions. Then I watch my friends and others go for the same and similar and get shit. They seem to have it in for me. So really, you just never know. But if you can, always go in with a real lawyer. At least try to get a few free consultations and see what they say.

What I hate the most in these situations, at least where I am from, is addicts who need help get jail time. Just what they don't need, at least most of the time (with some it is the only way). These people need a chance at treatment. But the government just wants your money. They don't care if you get help or not.

edit:sorry just thought of something else and I just re-read everything which I should have done in the first place. If it were me, I would NEVER take a 2 year suspended sentence. My feeling is she will end up in prison. Probation would probably be a very bad thing. IMHO. It works for some, but she will likely try to get away with using and get popped for a dirty urine. With what you have said of her background, it will be very hard for her to stay clean unless she goes to treatment and gets serious.
 
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I've never heard of a DA that doesn't through a bullshit plea-deal first, just to try and clear up their case-load, especially if it's something petty like drug-posession.
Unless she's got a judge & DA that want to slam her, they'll give her a second plea-deal w/ conditions. Keeping something like this from actually going to trial is what they'll try to do.

And yeah, that's basically it. Like my suspended sentence was two-years & a felony conviction, but with two-years "court-supervised" (unsupervised) probation and a $750 fine. My problem wasn't drugs...... aside from the full bottles of morphine & soma they found, which I'd just gotten from the VA. It was for firearms.... really long story, but basically they fucked up.... and the NRA is in on it.

Detoxing in jail is really rough, and she's gonna be in hell for a week or so.... but afterwards is important.... if she uses the time to work-out instead of just camping-out on her rack, it'll be a great benefit for her. Detoxing in jail is whatever you make of it, and I think can be much more effective than those stupid civilian detox hotels/resorts.
 
carrion Doll said:
Please do 2 things. a) tell her not to take advice from other inmates. They will tell you anything. I mean there are nice people inside on occasion that might actually want to help but you never really know. You have to think about the kind of people she might be locked up with. Not saying everyone in jail is bad.

What I hate the most in these situations, at least where I am from, is addicts who need help get jail time. Just what they don't need, at least most of the time (with some it is the only way). These people need a chance at treatment. But the government just wants your money. They don't care if you get help or not.
Click to expand...

Exactly....
I've met some really good guys in jail that've gotten popped for really stupid shit, but they're still in the same situation as me, so their advice is taken with a friendly nod, and promptly forgotten.

Public-defenders aren't all bad, at least the ones I've seen/gotten. Being a PD is a requirement for lawyers to move up the ladder to being a DA. So some of them are just trying to hurry through it, but others take their job seriously.
The problem is case-load. PDs are swamped with cases, and they can't really be blamed for making mistakes or forgetting things.

But a paid lawyer is a little better, but usually not by much. Remember, the lawyers act as go-betweens to the judge & DA. They'll make the arguments & offers, but your daughter is still the deciding factor in this.
 
Ixchellian said:
Exactly....
I've met some really good guys in jail that've gotten popped for really stupid shit, but they're still in the same situation as me, so their advice is taken with a friendly nod, and promptly forgotten.

Public-defenders aren't all bad, at least the ones I've seen/gotten. Being a PD is a requirement for lawyers to move up the ladder to being a DA. So some of them are just trying to hurry through it, but others take their job seriously.
The problem is case-load. PDs are swamped with cases, and they can't really be blamed for making mistakes or forgetting things.

But a paid lawyer is a little better, but usually not by much. Remember, the lawyers act as go-betweens to the judge & DA. They'll make the arguments & offers, but your daughter is still the deciding factor in this.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right, I even have a friend who is a lawyer who defended me when he was a PA. But most where I am from are not so good unfortunately(actually not so good is a huge understatement). I guess I should not lump all them together though. ;) But after a few others I had, I will never trust them again.
 
I talked to a lawyers office and they told me they would rather have her bailed out and talking to them. they said wait and see what happens on the 20th. I think at this point she will plead not guilty and hopefully get released then?
I might bail her out at that point so we can do a free consultation and see if its worth it. What i think would be good for her is treatment. She was planning on going there anyways. Another problem is her boyfriend is an addict also ad is in jail currently for the same thing since they were together when they got busted.
I am pretty sure a condition could be she cant be around drug offenders or felons? I just dont know if she can do it.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to me.
I will keep you updated on what happens with this case.
Corey
 
The lawyers can talk to her while she's in there. Of course they'd want her out, because the more time she takes talking to them, the more the lawyers will charge. They'll even bill you for a 2min phone-call.

The only way she'll get out is if she gets a personal-recognisance bond when she makes her not-guilty deal. But rarely to judges do that anymore.

And she definitely needs to break from her "boyfriend".... time-served will take care of the chemical part, and she'll likely be prohibited from being around other felons/etc on the outs as a condition of bond or probation....
When he gets out, tell your girl that if she gets back with him..... you're done. Cut her off. You did all that you could as a loving parent.... but sometimes yeh just can't hold onto them cause they wanna do their own thing.
And her seeing that guy means instant relapse. I'd bet a lot of money on it, if I had any money.
 
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Not sure about the legal side of things or anything. But just wanted to say I just read your other threads and really makes me sad thinking about what I put my parents through. There IS hope though, I was a completely ridiculous heroin and methadone addict for 4 years and literally everyone thought there was no hope whatsoever. But I've got clean. Early days and I'm still on a day care rehab program, but I got off that shit. My Mum goes to Families anonymous and it is helping her loads.

Hope it all workes out for you both! Hopefully this is her rock bottom/wake up call she needs.
 
Methadone or suboxone is the answer to this situation. here is my reasoning.
1. Most rehabs have an extremely high relapse rate like 85-90 percent in the first year.
2. She is gonna use the first time she thinks she can get away with it.
3.the only way to change 2 is time.
4.substitution therapy buys you time which is what she needs anyway you look at the equation.
 
I completely agree with what Ixchellian said. And if you are going to bail her make treatment a condition. Not that she will necessarily stick to it. But if you feel you absolutely have to get her out then tell her that is the only way and try to make her do it.

And yeah, the lawyers don't NEED her out, they just want $$.
 
Do you think your enabling her by helping her out? How come your making things easier on her? Maybe jail time will give her something to think about and some good meals....
 
Honestly if I was in jail I would be eating better than I am now :( lol
 
hey man so basically i only got arrested once for possestion of a controlled substance i ahd 2 10 dollar bags on me when i got to bookings they put me in the felony cage but i hired a private lawyer which cost me $2500 i got a really good deal thru a family friend cuz he was a big shot lawyer to he got me out with no bail and my final charge was a violation for disordurly conduct not even a misdemenor so if you can afford to spend a couple grand that would be nice cuz u dont want ur daughter to have a felony on her name for the rest of her life i was scared to even have a misdemeanor on my name but thank god it was droped all the way down to a violation just as long as i didnt get in trouble for a year
 
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