EU Referendum Discussion: Well That Worked Out Well Didn't It

[spacejunk]

^ lol well said

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I find it highly ironic that a large proportion of those that complain about 'forriners comin' 'ere stealing our jobs' have never worked a fuckin day in their lives...

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

This should be compulsory in fucking schools man

Doug Stanhope - Nationalism and Immigration

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

This should be compulsory in fucking schools man

Doug Stanhope - Nationalism and Immigration

Heh, in a nutshell..!

 

[Don Luigi]

That routine also applies to supporting a football team.

Fucking love Doug Stanhope.

 

[Raasyvibe]

my sister-in-law turned up at my mother's house in tears last week petrified she will be deported come April when her visa is up for renewal. Been married to my British (so very British he's ginger) brother for a few years now. Both always been in work and very comfortably off as a result of her business. Yet far from inconceivable she will be deported in a few weeks. Care to justify that too, Rarsedrippings?

... from Rarse about how, with my BA completed - in the UK - by the time I was 20, my MA coming to an end at 22, my having married an Englishman (Remainer,[I] of course[/I] 8)) and my having just landed the job of my dreams in London, and yes, all the while paying taxes...Rarse I can't [B]wait[/B] for you to teach me how selfish I've been and how much better off your beloved country would be without my disgusting French presence amongst it. =D[/QUOTE]

You're missing the point here. This isn't about "kick all the foreigners out". That would be appalling, utterly unfair and detrimental to our country as a whole. Immigrants can be very beneficial, a lot of the pole's and Latvians for instance do jobs that us English refuse to do like farming and fishing, as they involve hard work, and these industries rely on them

A successful immigration program, works something like this:

[nsfw][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/figgywigs/BlokefromPoland.jpg[/nsfw]

What we really need is some kind of regulation, as the numbers of people immigrating compared to those emigrating is inexorably rising and that will eventually effect the country negatively.

As stated before, the reason this "free immigration" the EU offers is flawed, is because everyone flocks to the countries which have a currency that's worth a lot. No-one wants to go to the poor countries. This happens all over the world... Everyone flocks to the nice countries, with sunshine, beaches, no wars and - of course - a very strong value to their currency.

*cough**cough*

NSFW:

And largely due to that both my ENGLISH husband and myself are now planning a move to Australia asap

Fortunately, the Australian government is clued up on this and place sanctions to control levels of immigration. As our country also suffers from an ever growing influx of immigrants (because our £ is strong), surely a similar system would be suitable? Sadly we cannot issue this, as we're not controlling our own borders... so we just have to suck it up.

Immigration can be successful and fair if sanctions are implemented properly. Australia claim to have benefited billions of AUD because of their immigration, which they control.


Also, being concerned with issues of immigration does not denote bigotry. Most immigrants have most likely had a life 100 times harder than your average thug who's had everything handed on a plate. I passionately despise such an ignorant attitude towards people who come here to seek work. Most immigrants are acting entirely legitimately, and the illegal immigrants are usually very desperate people who have even risked/lost their own lives to come here as the conditions are so dire in their homeland and they really need help not persecution. The problem is not necessarily those individuals, but the system that regulates those individuals.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

A successful immigration program, works something like this:

NSFW:

Excellent

 

[Frege]

You're missing the point here. This isn't about "kick all the foreigners out". That would be appalling, utterly unfair and detrimental to our country as a whole. Immigrants can be very beneficial, a lot of the pole's and Latvians for instance do jobs that us English refuse to do like farming and fishing, as they involve hard work, and these industries rely on them

A successful immigration program, works something like this:

NSFW:

What we really need is some kind of regulation, as the numbers of people immigrating compared to those emigrating is inexorably rising and that will eventually effect the country negatively.

As stated before, the reason this "free immigration" the EU offers is flawed, is because everyone flocks to the countries which have a currency that's worth a lot. No-one wants to go to the poor countries. This happens all over the world... Everyone flocks to the nice countries, with sunshine, beaches, no wars and - of course - a very strong value to their currency.

*cough**cough*


Fortunately, the Australian government is clued up on this and place sanctions to control levels of immigration. As our country also suffers from an ever growing influx of immigrants (because our £ is strong), surely a similar system would be suitable? Sadly we cannot issue this, as we're not controlling our own borders... so we just have to suck it up.

Immigration can be successful and fair if sanctions are implemented properly. Australia claim to have benefited billions of AUD because of their immigration, which they control.


Also, being concerned with issues of immigration does not denote bigotry. Most immigrants have most likely had a life 100 times harder than your average thug who's had everything handed on a plate. I passionately despise such an ignorant attitude towards people who come here to seek work. Most immigrants are acting entirely legitimately, and the illegal immigrants are usually very desperate people who have even risked/lost their own lives to come here as the conditions are so dire in their homeland and they really need help not persecution. The problem is not necessarily those individuals, but the system that regulates those individuals.

How laughably ironic that we have an English person referring to an immigration policy in place within Australia as one which they would like to adopt! Thanks for the belly laugh :D

Now, where to start...

It is not the levels of immigration between Australia and the UK which are that different at all. In fact, as a proportion of population, Australia has been taking roughly the exact same amount as the UK has been:

Australia in 2014 took 203 000 permanent migrants within a population of 23 million

UK in 2014 took 624 000 permanent migrants within a population of 62 million

This also does not have much to do with implementing Brexit, as a migration policy change such as this could have been negotiated further with the multiple different countries involved, including those within the EU, as a whole without an all-out Brexit.

However, Australia is very specific to what proportion of temporary migrants to take by using a points policy, taking a larger percentage of working holiday visa holders, with roughly 240 000 working holiday visa holders in 2013-2014, while the UK took only 20 000 in the same period! Not to mention that many of these working holiday visa holders were from the UK!

Farage claimed in a speech that "open door migration" led to wage compression. But this immigration policy of Australia, which you have so colourfully referred to, allows cheap labour to flow in, once again much of it being in the form of economic migrants from the UK! Farage also stated that he was using the migration policy of Australia as reasoning to suggest curtailing the numbers of migrants in the UK to between 20 000-40 000 per year. This would, however, result in dire economic consequences, if it were to take place.

If you would like a lesson from Australia about migrant entry, it is not about regulating the numbers, but to balance the economic benefits of migration against the "threat to local jobs", fair wages, and working conditions for all workers.

 

[Shambles]

^ Good point, well made. Wherever you got deported too.

Rarsehole: As ever, you made precisely zero reference to the points raised and simply went off on a generic rant. Are you capable of answering questions or should sensible people simply skip over your posts as the inflammatory irrelevancies they have hereforto represented?

 

[rickolasnice]

It's incredibly naive to assume and even believe that immigration has no negative affect on society..

Immigration does help to keep wages low. In the construction industry a lot of tradesmen wages went stagnant and even decreased with the influx of foreign workers. Work was harder to secure as contractors were turning to cheaper labour (as well as the obvious fact that more people are applying to the same jobs). It doesn't take a genius to understand that the more people there are competing for jobs the less money the employers will offer.

The NHS, housing, schools and public transport are all being stressed by immigration. The NHS are regularly failing to reach their targets, work place happiness has plummeted while stress levels have gone up. The more people there are using the NHS, the more resources and funds are going to be stretched. The property ladder is becoming an unobtainable dream for a lot of first time buyers, rent prices are higher, available social housing decreasing. Schools are becoming overcrowded, funds and resources are being stretched. Teachers are now having to take on more challenges, such as language barriers, which can lead to other pupils not getting as much attention and assistance. The same story for public transport. The population has grown far too quickly for much of our transport system to adapt to and cope with.

You can't supply 100 people resources when you only have enough for 90.

Edit - Yes I'm fully aware that the NHS would fall apart without EU immigrants, houses can be built a lot quicker with some immigrant tradesmen, etc etc.. but there has or will be a point where the negative aspects will outweigh the positives. There is only so much room for population increase before society inevitably suffers. Some regions, classes, professions, etc will feel the impact more the others.

I really don't see why raas agreeing with the Australian immigration policy is funny or ironic. We have taken and used a lot of data and research that the nazis did for medical advancement. The banning of vivisection started with the nazi party. But, regardless, the use or agreement of foreign systems and your stance on immigration have nothing to do with each other.

I can see the "so far to the left they've become the right" attitude is running rife here. I may have missed something but it seems everyone is getting riled up and chanting the ignorant racist chant because raas has dared have a different view of the impact of immigration. I haven't seen anything from raas saying that immigrants avoid paying taxes, using the term "dirty immigrants" or suggesting that the country will be better off having no non-British nationals. For what reason do you lot think raas would like to see your sister-in-laws deported? To be honest it seems like raas is one of the only ones trying to have an actual discussion of different views while everyone else is implying that ignorance and prejudices are the foundation of his opinions.

You're all so ready to stick up for the Daily Mails "To blame" groups that you blindly become the bigoted, prejudice group that you are accusing others of being.

 

[Raasyvibe]

^^ Not sure who Frege was?? They didn't last long. But, will add...

This also does not have much to do with implementing Brexit, as a migration policy change such as this could have been negotiated further with the multiple different countries involved, including those within the EU, as a whole without an all-out Brexit.

I thought the whole reason for the referendum was because we couldn't negotiate such policies?


____

Rarsehole: As ever, you made precisely zero reference to the points raised and simply went off on a generic rant. Are you capable of answering questions or should sensible people simply skip over your posts as the inflammatory irrelevancies they have hereforto represented?

I felt I answered your question appropriately:

In more personal news, my sister-in-law turned up at my mother's house in tears last week petrified she will be deported come April when her visa is up for renewal. Been married to my British (so very British he's ginger) brother for a few years now. Both always been in work and very comfortably off as a result of her business. Yet far from inconceivable she will be deported in a few weeks. Care to justify that too, Rarsedrippings?

You're missing the point here. This isn't about "kick all the foreigners out". That would be appalling, utterly unfair and detrimental to our country as a whole. Immigrants can be very beneficial ... ... industries rely on them ...


... What we really need is some kind of regulation, as the numbers of people immigrating compared to those emigrating is inexorably rising and that will eventually effect the country negatively.

I don't think anyone, not even the far rights, expect or want some kind of mass deportation. Prior to the referendum the prominent brexiteers (namingly UKIP) talked about controlling the borders, rather than shipping everyone out. If your migrant sis-in-law is married to a brit, has lived and worked in the country for a while, I don't think there's any real reason for concern. The media seems to reflect this view:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-stay-after-brexit-600000-will-be-given-amne/
"All EU nationals currently living in Britain will be allowed to stay following Brexit, after the Home Office discovered that five in six could not legally be deported.

There are around 3.6 million EU citizens living in the UK, more than 80 per cent of whom will have permanent residency rights by the time Britain leaves the union in early 2019, official research has concluded.

The remainder – more than 600,000 people – will be offered an amnesty, with several Cabinet ministers telling The Telegraph that those citizens will be offered the right to stay permanently, in a policy that may prove controversial."

 

[Shambles]

My sister-in-law is a non-EU migrant and is terrified of deportation not because of what folk like you or I may say here but purely and simply from first-hand experience of a sudden massive uprising of racist abuse and attacks witnessed personally and via the media since the Brexit vote. That and the related drastic uptick in deportations (and those awaiting potential deportation) of people from within and without the EU that simply would never have even been considered prior to Brexit.

You can waffle and pontificate all you like but you don't have to live it. People like my sister-in-law do (she's Ukranian so is regularly mistaken for any Eastern European nationality you care to name). This is the cold hard fact easy to ignore when you're just plain ignorant. Presumably through no fault of your own... But ignorant all the same.

Rickolas: You just described Free Market Capitalism. Which economic system would you prefer?

 

[Arnold]

Kick them Johnny foreigners out!

 

[Arnold]

Farmers' fury over proposed £3bn funding cuts: Former minister calls to cut ALL subsidies to UK agriculture once Britain leaves the EU

This is the bit I've long been waiting for.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4372008/Farmers-fury-proposed-3bn-funding-cuts.html

 

[BecomingJulie]

The Daily Heil reporting on a disadvantage of Brexit?! Still, I suppose bad news -- even self-inflicted bad news -- sells advertising space .....

Never mind. Theresa May wants to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar. We're not allowed to go to war with other member states while we're still in the EU; but once we're out .....