Sammy G
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Ha! :D
Vurtual
Bluelighter
Scotsman: I'll watch that (or skim it) later - but i thought that the alignment of the pyramids with orions belt didn't actually work unless you distort the map a bit.
I think the best and most honest book about comsmic pyramids and all that jazz is Genesis Unveiled by Ian Lawton. It's a survey/anthology of the whole field of hidden ancient civilisations covering all the main people (hancock, bauval, Sitchin etc) - with an open mind but with actual honest research. Not much survives (but quite a bit does) - i read about the orions belt mismatch there (and saw the diagrams).
Also the Stargate Conspiracy by Picknett and Prince is good and comes at it from a different angle (ie linking the cosmic pyramid stuff with CIA and remote viewing (and loads more)
I think the best and most honest book about comsmic pyramids and all that jazz is Genesis Unveiled by Ian Lawton. It's a survey/anthology of the whole field of hidden ancient civilisations covering all the main people (hancock, bauval, Sitchin etc) - with an open mind but with actual honest research. Not much survives (but quite a bit does) - i read about the orions belt mismatch there (and saw the diagrams).
Also the Stargate Conspiracy by Picknett and Prince is good and comes at it from a different angle (ie linking the cosmic pyramid stuff with CIA and remote viewing (and loads more)
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, the Orion alignment is slightly off which doesn't sit well with the pyramid folk's usual obsession with perfect alignments obviously. However, it is interesting that a number of ancient monuments do very closely (if still imperfectly) appear to align with Orion's Belt. To my mind, it dioesn't seem at all unlikely that ancient people would attempt to make such alignments as Orion is such a prominent constellation and had importance to many such cultures. Also seems entirely reasonable that any such alignments are unlikely to be absolutely perfect as we are talking about ancient civilisations working with comparatively primitive tools. The "imperfect" (but still pretty damn close) alignment is only really a problem to theories that rely heavily on supposedly "perfect" alignments. It's a depressingly common feature of the ancient astronaut folk that they have no qualms about being highly selective (bordering on outright dishonest in some cases) about what they present as "evidence" and what they apparently deliberately obfuscate.
On the general topic of "lost" antediluvian cultures I'm actually quite a fan. Not in the sense of Atlanteans flying around on UFOs powered by crystals and positive mental attitude and such like, but I do think there are some fairly compelling arguments (albeit fractured, incomplete and very far from conclusive) for there being epochs of human civilisation and culture which have not left behind enough to be able to pin down but the fragments that are extant are certainly tantalising and I would say somewhat suggestive of there being "something" going on which is as yet undocumented.
On the general topic of "lost" antediluvian cultures I'm actually quite a fan. Not in the sense of Atlanteans flying around on UFOs powered by crystals and positive mental attitude and such like, but I do think there are some fairly compelling arguments (albeit fractured, incomplete and very far from conclusive) for there being epochs of human civilisation and culture which have not left behind enough to be able to pin down but the fragments that are extant are certainly tantalising and I would say somewhat suggestive of there being "something" going on which is as yet undocumented.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I'm with you again. The general alignment of orion is fine, but bauval and co went on about a specific angle represented which proved a link to a specific time period of 10,500 bc (i don't know if the bloke in the vid does - i'll watch it later honest) - why they chose to focus on 10,500 bc and the link to edgar cayce waffling on about the same (and lots of other overlap) is part of the subject of that stargate conspiracy book (where some link to masonic propaganda is explored).
Yeah it seems likely there was previous civilisations of some sort but i guess it depends how people define civilisation - the 'old european' neolithic culture was pretty sophisticated, with complex trade and industry, and existed in europe for many thousands of years, but this is often written off when compared to the city-building near-eastern 'proper' civilisations. Prehistorical is automatically dismissed in some way, but you can be 'sophisticated' without formal writing systems or monument building that leaves an obvious archaeological record. As far as i can see 'civilisation' through the lens of western academic culture usually means centralised property accumulation (and the record keeping needed for such) - though i don't think this is inherent to 'sophistication' or is the only measure of value of a culture. As you go further back in time the likelihood of us not ever seeing traces of a previous civilisation (even cenralised ones) gets smaller, especially if on a coastline that's now under the sea or an ice sheet.
Yeah it seems likely there was previous civilisations of some sort but i guess it depends how people define civilisation - the 'old european' neolithic culture was pretty sophisticated, with complex trade and industry, and existed in europe for many thousands of years, but this is often written off when compared to the city-building near-eastern 'proper' civilisations. Prehistorical is automatically dismissed in some way, but you can be 'sophisticated' without formal writing systems or monument building that leaves an obvious archaeological record. As far as i can see 'civilisation' through the lens of western academic culture usually means centralised property accumulation (and the record keeping needed for such) - though i don't think this is inherent to 'sophistication' or is the only measure of value of a culture. As you go further back in time the likelihood of us not ever seeing traces of a previous civilisation (even cenralised ones) gets smaller, especially if on a coastline that's now under the sea or an ice sheet.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
At the risk of this becoming a circlejkerk, I'd agree with that too - especially the second paragraph as I have long believed that neolithic (and quite conceivably mesolithic and perhaps even earlier) cultures were a lot more sophisticated than they are credited with. This actually ties in rather well with that 10500 BCE figure which is bandied about so frequently. It's not just Bauval and pyramid alignments - it crops up in a number of areas.
I suspect that specific date has become such a noted "thing" in its own right that people tend to round up or down to it even where there are centuries - even a millenia or few - on either side but "there and thereabouts" does seem to have some significance as far as "lost" ancient civilisations stuffs go. I'd suggest probably as it was right around that time (give or take) that the last ice age ended which would have brought about immense changes (environmental, cultural, geological even) so seems quite reasonable that "there or thereabouts" would be a time of great significance to human histlory.
As far as Egyptian stuffs go, I think the Sphinx hypotheses seem to have potential legs to me. One aspect beinig the weathering patterns highly suggestive of prolonged periods of rain (last time that area was regularly rained upon was "in and around" that 10500 BCE date). It does bother me a bit that taht fella (Schoch is it?) appears to have taken a bit too keenly (in my opinion anyway) to the woo-woo circuit and seems happy to be a rent-a-prof talking head to anythng and everything no matter how speculative. He is still a professor of geology so am not disputing his credentials but he seems happy to pontificate and spiel on anything from Atlantis to Zeta Reticulans and is certainly not averse to working the "I have both a Ph,D and a beard - yes that does make my opinion more important than yours" angle.
The other Sphinxy thing is the fact that if you "wind back" the night sky to 10500 BCE it points directly to the constellation of Leo and I can see that making sense what with it looking rather liony and that. Obviously there's a lot more to it than it "looking rather liony" but I don't recall all the supposedly relevant astrological bobz but, given how big the ancient Egyptians were on astrology and the great importance of certain constellations and such like, it seems like a fairly compelling argument when taken together with the geological evidence. Not conclusive but certainly suggestive to my mind.
As I recall, that 10500 BCE date also ties in with a number of settlements and other manmade (some definitively so, some more speculatively so) artefacts and other intriguing "things" now underwater but supposedly last above sea level at around that there 10500 BCE date again.
I suspect that specific date has become such a noted "thing" in its own right that people tend to round up or down to it even where there are centuries - even a millenia or few - on either side but "there and thereabouts" does seem to have some significance as far as "lost" ancient civilisations stuffs go. I'd suggest probably as it was right around that time (give or take) that the last ice age ended which would have brought about immense changes (environmental, cultural, geological even) so seems quite reasonable that "there or thereabouts" would be a time of great significance to human histlory.
As far as Egyptian stuffs go, I think the Sphinx hypotheses seem to have potential legs to me. One aspect beinig the weathering patterns highly suggestive of prolonged periods of rain (last time that area was regularly rained upon was "in and around" that 10500 BCE date). It does bother me a bit that taht fella (Schoch is it?) appears to have taken a bit too keenly (in my opinion anyway) to the woo-woo circuit and seems happy to be a rent-a-prof talking head to anythng and everything no matter how speculative. He is still a professor of geology so am not disputing his credentials but he seems happy to pontificate and spiel on anything from Atlantis to Zeta Reticulans and is certainly not averse to working the "I have both a Ph,D and a beard - yes that does make my opinion more important than yours" angle.
The other Sphinxy thing is the fact that if you "wind back" the night sky to 10500 BCE it points directly to the constellation of Leo and I can see that making sense what with it looking rather liony and that. Obviously there's a lot more to it than it "looking rather liony" but I don't recall all the supposedly relevant astrological bobz but, given how big the ancient Egyptians were on astrology and the great importance of certain constellations and such like, it seems like a fairly compelling argument when taken together with the geological evidence. Not conclusive but certainly suggestive to my mind.
As I recall, that 10500 BCE date also ties in with a number of settlements and other manmade (some definitively so, some more speculatively so) artefacts and other intriguing "things" now underwater but supposedly last above sea level at around that there 10500 BCE date again.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I don't buy the 10500 bce link. The sphinx weathering indicates more around the 5000-7000 bce range max from memory (schoch stuck with that lower figure if i remember right (probably not)) - it was fudged to fit with the 10500 idea by various authors with axes to grind. The end of the ice age was several changes over a longer period, with ~8000bce also being a big shift. The fudging of the orion angle map to fit 10500bce doesn't look good either. There's no evidence of a settlement in the area at that time - the authors say something like 'there were only a few atlantis survivors who planned giza, then just lived without doing anything for 6000 years, then built the pyramids' - a likely story.
I really recommend Genesis Unveiled by ian lawton - it's the most honestly researched book in the 'field' that i've read. It's not a sceptic debunking of cosmic pyramid genre (he belongs to it - he wrote his own book about giza); he's not sceptical, but he doesn't seem to want to mislead the reader (or himself) like some/most of them - it's still pretty cosmic what he ends up with, but it feels a bit more honest (probably equally nonsensical to an archaeologist).
I really recommend Genesis Unveiled by ian lawton - it's the most honestly researched book in the 'field' that i've read. It's not a sceptic debunking of cosmic pyramid genre (he belongs to it - he wrote his own book about giza); he's not sceptical, but he doesn't seem to want to mislead the reader (or himself) like some/most of them - it's still pretty cosmic what he ends up with, but it feels a bit more honest (probably equally nonsensical to an archaeologist).
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rickolasnice
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
- Messages
- 6,810
I thought the latest study into the weathering of the sphinx suggested the area was flooded for a long period of time?
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
What about the way that large quantities of heroin appeared on the market during the worst part of Thatcher's reign? Keep the people too stoned, or too busy worrying about where the next hit is coming from, to rise up against their oppressors .....
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Haha, good point. I reckon all the TV ads in the 'Just say No!' Campaign carried subliminal messages saying "Go on, get some smack. You know you want it, NOW!" If not, then they may as well have done for all the good they did...
Vurtual
Bluelighter
Wasn't the influx of brown heroin partially related to the iranian revolution? (i remember reading somewhere - or maybe it was the mujaheddin) - i'm sure C's spooks would have been happy to help along any enemies of the ayatollah/ruskies with a brucie bonus of proving the underclass are scum to help thatch (yeah, i know some of you already read my posts in a rick from the young ones voice 
). Don't forget crack, garry web, freeway rick ross and all that; plus there were similar stories about china white being spread in black areas in the 60s for similar reasons (and those cointel boys were definitely capable).
There's loads of evidence of intelligence and authorities getting up to drug smuggling over the years - as far as i can tell, it's mostly just about making money/public school boy adventure rather than spreading the drugs strategically (though the underclass=scum proving thing is always nice) - who knows how these cunts think though.
HSBC recently got away with laundering billions and billions of drug money (and weapons/terrorist/sanctions-busting money) - they got a billion pound fine ('expenses'), and the authorities said they couldn't prosecute anyone involved because it would cause a risk to the stability of the financial system! HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corp) have got form though - they started out doing the money for the british empire's opium dealing in china (apparently david cameron's great grandfather ran the bank then). I believe HSBC also got it's hands dirty with the golden triangle heroin money in more recent times too.
The classic book covering us government/cia involvement in the heroin trade is 'The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia' by Alfred McCoy - a long academic tome and probably a bit old now, but a fascinating read
). Don't forget crack, garry web, freeway rick ross and all that; plus there were similar stories about china white being spread in black areas in the 60s for similar reasons (and those cointel boys were definitely capable).There's loads of evidence of intelligence and authorities getting up to drug smuggling over the years - as far as i can tell, it's mostly just about making money/public school boy adventure rather than spreading the drugs strategically (though the underclass=scum proving thing is always nice) - who knows how these cunts think though.
HSBC recently got away with laundering billions and billions of drug money (and weapons/terrorist/sanctions-busting money) - they got a billion pound fine ('expenses'), and the authorities said they couldn't prosecute anyone involved because it would cause a risk to the stability of the financial system! HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corp) have got form though - they started out doing the money for the british empire's opium dealing in china (apparently david cameron's great grandfather ran the bank then). I believe HSBC also got it's hands dirty with the golden triangle heroin money in more recent times too.
The classic book covering us government/cia involvement in the heroin trade is 'The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia' by Alfred McCoy - a long academic tome and probably a bit old now, but a fascinating read
^^^ yeah when the Shah was deposed by the Ayatolla any one with money fled the country and alot exchanged currancy for high value low volume goods e.g. gear and gold. I was in London when it happened and almost overnight everyone was talking about and using this 'new' drug brown heroin.
The mujahadin gave the ruskies lots of heroin to fuck them up and smoked industrial quantites of hash themselves to go on ruskie hunts and shot the shit out of them (I met one who told me this all firest hand)they would go in to a trance like state and chant....he told me this as he was stuffing a pipe full of nice hash i had got for him when i was living in tenerife... when i saw his eyes go in to nutter mode i made my excuses.
All the high level dealing is done in cahoots with the gov't in some shape or form CIA, MI5 COINTELPRO ETC... all that untaceable cash, iran/contra all the way back to the opium wars in the 19th century.
The mujahadin gave the ruskies lots of heroin to fuck them up and smoked industrial quantites of hash themselves to go on ruskie hunts and shot the shit out of them (I met one who told me this all firest hand)they would go in to a trance like state and chant....he told me this as he was stuffing a pipe full of nice hash i had got for him when i was living in tenerife... when i saw his eyes go in to nutter mode i made my excuses.
All the high level dealing is done in cahoots with the gov't in some shape or form CIA, MI5 COINTELPRO ETC... all that untaceable cash, iran/contra all the way back to the opium wars in the 19th century.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Wasn't the influx of brown heroin partially related to the iranian revolution? (i remember reading somewhere - or maybe it was the mujaheddin) - i'm sure C's spooks would have been happy to help along any enemies of the ayatollah/ruskies with a brucie bonus of proving the underclass are scum to help thatch (yeah, i know some of you already read my posts in a rick from the young ones voice
There's loads of evidence of intelligence and authorities getting up to drug smuggling over the years - as far as i can tell, it's mostly just about making money/public school boy adventure rather than spreading the drugs strategically (though the underclass=scum proving thing is always nice) - who knows how these cunts think though.
HSBC recently got away with laundering billions and billions of drug money (and weapons/terrorist/sanctions-busting money) - they got a billion pound fine ('expenses'), and the authorities said they couldn't prosecute anyone involved because it would cause a risk to the stability of the financial system! HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corp) have got form though - they started out doing the money for the british empire's opium dealing in china (apparently david cameron's great grandfather ran the bank then). I believe HSBC also got it's hands dirty with the golden triangle heroin money in more recent times too.
The classic book covering us government/cia involvement in the heroin trade is 'The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia' by Alfred McCoy - a long academic tome and probably a bit old now, but a fascinating read
As always, it's right in your face. Barely concealed, if at all. Iran / Contra was probably the most flagrant retro drug-trafficking operation by any democratically-elected government, and was barely hushed even at the time.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
In unrelated conspiratorial news, what was that stuff with Ringo Starr apparently confirming the venerable "Paul is dead" plotline recently? I never did get around to looking into his reported statements but seemed to roughly coincide with April Fool's so am guessing it was probably that? Quality conspiracy though - a true classic of the genre.
I've not heard that myself and seems extremely unlikely to me. Sandstone tends to dissolve fairly readily in water (which is why even prolonged exposure to rainwater produces erosion patterns that look somewhat like rivers and river deltas). If the entire area was underwater for any length of time it would end up looking like a featureless block of rounded sandstone with little or no remaining definition. Combined with the fact that that part of the world was last underwater a very, very long time ago (significantly prior to even the most optimistic datings of its creation) that does seem a little leftfield even for pyramid enthusiasts.
I've not heard that myself and seems extremely unlikely to me. Sandstone tends to dissolve fairly readily in water (which is why even prolonged exposure to rainwater produces erosion patterns that look somewhat like rivers and river deltas). If the entire area was underwater for any length of time it would end up looking like a featureless block of rounded sandstone with little or no remaining definition. Combined with the fact that that part of the world was last underwater a very, very long time ago (significantly prior to even the most optimistic datings of its creation) that does seem a little leftfield even for pyramid enthusiasts.
StoneHappyMonday
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 10, 2001
- Messages
- 18,084
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Haha, good point. I reckon all the TV ads in the 'Just say No!' Campaign carried subliminal messages saying "Go on, get some smack. You know you want it, NOW!" If not, then they may as well have done for all the good they did...
I can say for sure that those ads where what first piqued my interest in junkydom and I genuinely did aspire to what they sold the masses. As advertising campaigns go, I'd say they worked better than most. Heroin use skyrocketed and seemed far less taboo and niche after those ads then it did before then. Admittedly I was a kid at the time but I do remember the way it suddenly became something that was discussed and joked about at school whereas before then we may well have known about smackheads but they were scary mofos best not spoken of. The ads just sold teen angst - anybody who was approaching puberty around that time probably has more positive attitudes towards heroin than those who fell either side of that particular campaign I suspect.
And this is why I love you
Also, in an ideal world you should receive a PM reply at some stage tonight, but, all things being equal and knowing me as I do, no longer than a day or so
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
Thatcher being prime minister was enough to make people turn to drugs...
We, as kids, had a song especially for our beloved.
Two four six eight who do we really hate?
Margaret Thatcher throw her in the lid,
Put the lid on,
Celatape her in
LOL
Did anyone NOT hate her?
Evey
curious_24
Bluelighter
Catchy....
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
It was 'chuck her in the bin'!
And there was another verse:
If she comes out, bang her on the head
Glory, glory, Thatcher is dead!
But yeah, I remember that. Thanks, Evey.
And there was another verse:
If she comes out, bang her on the head
Glory, glory, Thatcher is dead!
But yeah, I remember that. Thanks, Evey.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
Seen this documentary about Princess Di's death by Keith Allen called Unlawful Killing - was actually quite good (the sheriff of nottingham couldn't lie could he?) - apparently banned in the uk now cos legal action (though not banned enough to take it off the internet). I reckon it's well feasible that they bumped her off - i'm probably biased, but that mafia have earned it over centuries ('sins of the father' comes with primogeniture).
http://yournewswire.com/banned-in-the-uk-princess-diana-documentary-unlawful-killing-must-see/
http://yournewswire.com/banned-in-the-uk-princess-diana-documentary-unlawful-killing-must-see/
http://iamaphoney.blogspot.co.uk/
For all your paul is dead info - this guy has done some unbelievable digging ir would take weeks to look at it all - I have look at a fair bit and xcome up ..inconclusive
For all your paul is dead info - this guy has done some unbelievable digging ir would take weeks to look at it all - I have look at a fair bit and xcome up ..inconclusive