EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

[Bleaney]

Well, i think clonaz has too much of a hangover effect for me, struggled to motivate myself for a job and delayed the customer for a day.
Maybe a weekend thing.

Don't forget that those 2mg clonazepam pills are strong. While I'm not sure that my experience (and many others) agrees that 2mg of clon = 40mg of diaz, or 4mg of xanax, etiz etc, as per most of the equivalence tables that you see online, it definitely is strong stuff.

I think to get equivalent effects that 2mg of clonazepam = about 25mg of diazepam (that's just my subjective experience.)

Maybe it is actually hitting you in the region of 2mg = 40mg diaz.

Also when new to any benzo it always seems to hit harder the first time especially, once you've allowed for this, you could try reducng the dose. After having used clon regularly for some time I don't notice any effects the next day. I try to take as low a night time dose as possible, usually anything between 0.5 to 1mg. Depending on how long it has been since I got up that morning, as in general the longer the day has been, the less I will need to help get to sleep.

 

[opiofr3k]

yes it is 2mg = 40mg but profile of working is different and clonaz's dont metabolise to so many other benzo's like diaz's

 

[sadasaulna]

Well, i think clonaz has too much of a hangover effect for me, struggled to motivate myself for a job and delayed the customer for a day.
Maybe a weekend thing.

Good! I was a bit worried when you started talking about doing 2mg doses of clonazepam. That's kind of high especially if you're wacking diaz on top of it.

I just tried an experiment, regarding tapering - it didn't go that well.... or maybe it did?

I crushed 25mg of diazepam into powder and put it in 5ml of propylene glycol. Even with intense shaking the powder would immediately settle to the bottom. So that's a bust I thought and was quite annoyed with myself. So then I put the 5ml of PG in 250ml of water and put it in the blender. That now seems to have worked! The liquid is a faint blue milky colour almost emulsion and there are no accumulation of powder. I will shake the bottle well again before use. As a result, 50ml of the liquid should now be ~5mg diazepam. Given how well it mixed, it would probably work in a smaller quantity of water it's just I had a 250ml bottle to hand, one of those mini apple juice bottles.

Currently I don't have a measuring jug I've just eyeballed the bottle with a marker into 5 sections, if were doing an actual taper I'd want a proper measuring jug. The PG seems to go in a sort of emulsion with the water so I think it was worthwhile having it in there.

If it does work, it could be a way of accurately tapering and leveling out pill for pill dose variations.

I'll let you know how this science experiment pans out.

 

[sadasaulna]

Well, it works just fine. I took roughly 50ml of the liquid and its hit like my usual 5mg. I did realise a fatal flaw for those with poor self control. If you made up a potent batch of this as a liquid it would become like a benzo vodka bottle. It could be very easy to want to take occasional swigs. As someone with alcohol dependency I know exactly how that game works out. If you feel that would be you, might be better to stay away, or at least ensure the solution is quite weak (eg 10mg per bottle) so that you could use it for fine degree of tapering, either on top of an existing tablet dose or on its own once you were down to sub 10mg doses. It does seem like a promising method for following the Ashton manual since it requires such gradual reductions.

As always though, self control is down to you!

 

[deficiT]

Well, it works just fine. I took roughly 50ml of the liquid and its hit like my usual 5mg. I did realise a fatal flaw for those with poor self control. If you made up a potent batch of this as a liquid it would become like a benzo vodka bottle. It could be very easy to want to take occasional swigs. As someone with alcohol dependency I know exactly how that game works out. If you feel that would be you, might be better to stay away, or at least ensure the solution is quite weak (eg 10mg per bottle) so that you could use it for fine degree of tapering, either on top of an existing tablet dose or on its own once you were down to sub 10mg doses. It does seem like a promising method for following the Ashton manual since it requires such gradual reductions.

As always though, self control is down to you!

I've never thought of it like that, as I always made far more concentrated solutions of benzos, but that does make sense as something to think about.

Yeah when it's super diluted like that you run into the same issues with like oral fixation and such that drinkers have to contend with.

 

[Bleaney]

Someone once told me that it's a bad idea to use water for benzo solutions, due to the bacterial build up that will occur. Standing water is meant to be really bad for this.

And one of the main reasons PG is the most commonly used and ideal medium for benzo powder solutions is due to it inhibiting bacterial growth.

The guy was generally well informed and knew what he was talking about, so I believed him.

It does make sense, although at like 5ml a time, I can't really see bacterially contaminated water causing too much of an issue, up to a certain point.. I wouldn't want to use this method for very long term storage of a big batch though, that's for sure. And I would not want to consume large amounts at a time either.

I'm failry certain you'd probably be able to tell visiually and by the smell and tatse at a certain stage when water becomes extremely over run with harmful bacteria. But I don't know how harmful it could be before things got to such an obviously harmful stage.

It doesn't explain the common use of standing water in wells for people's water supplies, and also those water stortage tanks you often see in the states high up in the air on top of frames.. Water must sit in those for weeks to months at a time. Maybe some kind of purification systems are used in those cases.

I found warming the PG helped the difficult to dissolve diclazepam powder to dissolve into a PG mix. And failing PG, something like vodka would probably be a better bet than water. 5ml at a time isnt going to get you drunk.

 

[sadasaulna]

I've never thought of it like that, as I always made far more concentrated solutions of benzos, but that does make sense as something to think about.

Yeah when it's super diluted like that you run into the same issues with like oral fixation and such that drinkers have to contend with.

As someone who's had alcohol problems since the year 2000, oral fixation is such a great way of looking at it. After my 50ml of the solution that little milky blue bottle was winking at me seductively. I put it away.

When I drink in the evening I will drink whatever I have, I don't have self control with alcohol. To taper my alcohol use I literally pour some of the bottle down the sink straight after buying it. Literally pouring money down the drain but its the only way I can taper.

Talking of other harm reduction strategies, when I had large amounts of benzos on hand, I put most of the packets at the back of a closet that is filled with junk. Boxes of crap I've accumulated over the years, old computers, routers etc. It meant getting at them would involve pulling out a ton of heavy boxes and so on. When I was at my best - sober from drink and only very occasional use of benzos I would simply keep a couple of alprazolam in my wallet as a "safety net" for if I had a panic attack or got dragged to a random party like happened to me at Christmas one time (I have bad social anxiety and meeting a bunch of people I don't know at a party is my idea of a nightmare). That would be my ideal situation - no drink and just the occasional benzo for an "as needed" situation. If I disappear from this forum its probably a good thing since it will mean I'm probably sober and don't care about looking at drugs forums any more!

 

[sadasaulna]

Someone once told me that it's a bad idea to use water for benzo solutions, due to the bacterial build up that will occur. Standing water is meant to be really bad for this.

And one of the main reasons PG is the most commonly used and ideal medium for benzo powder solutions is due to it inhibiting bacterial growth.

The guy was generally well informed and knew what he was talking about, so I believed him.

It does make sense, although at like 5ml a time, I can't really see bacterially contaminated water causing too much of an issue, up to a certain point.. I wouldn't want to use this method for very long term storage of a big batch though, that's for sure. And I would not want to consume large amounts at a time either.

I'm failry certain you'd probably be able to tell visiually and by the smell and tatse at a certain stage when water becomes extremely over run with harmful bacteria. But I don't know how harmful it could be before things got to such an obviously harmful stage.

It doesn't explain the common use of standing wells for people's water supplies, and also those water stortage tanks you often see in the states high up in the air on top of frames.. Water must sit in those for weeks to months at a time. Maybe some kind of purification systems are used in those cases.

I found warming the PG helped the difficult to dissolve diclazepam powder to dissolve into a PG mix. And failing PG, something like vodka would probably be a better bet than water. 5ml at a time isnt going to get you drunk.

It occurred to while replying to defecit that bacteria might be an issue then I saw your post! As the bottle contains 25mg diazepam, and I did 5 mg last night, it will be used for another four nights. Its in the fridge. I'm not currently tapering, but I wanted to experiment for if I needed to. I would have no plans of making large batches for long term storage and you're right to point out the risks. With my condition I keep spirits out of the house, no Vodka for me! I think the ideal usage of such a solution is to make it in small weak amounts to allow you to follow the ashton manual.

I have to say, the reduction in alcohol I've managed so far (with benzo assist) has had a massive positive effect on my health and mental well being. My mental health key-worker has noticed the difference in me. My blood pressure has reduced. Down from 18.75 units an evening to around 13. I would like to get that down to more like 8-10 units, and drop to 2.5mg diaz.

We can all hope and dream but its only what we actually do that makes things happen!

Last night (apart from writing that quick post about how it worked) I kept off the computer. I've found the computer is a nightmare for drink and benzo use. With its bright screen and endless youtube videos to watch I can get wasted and stay up till the wee hours thinking I'm on cloud 9 only to feel like next day and be disappointed in myself.

Last night I listened to an audio book. It was nice and relaxing. I have this audio compendium of "Modern classics of science fiction" and really enjoying it.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

yeah getting few beers after whole day of studies and drinking them while mindlessly scrolling shit is about the worst way to relax IMO. It is so stale activity that I will just get more beer.

 

[sadasaulna]

I did a brief scan of benzos on WEDINOS tonight. Thankfully the metonitazene seems to have died off for now in the benzo supply last sighting seems to be July. But things don't shape up good. I will not mention brand names since I don't want fakers jumping to brands that are good, but here is a breakdown of some common brands of diazepam that were pretty bad based on results from mostly the first page of the results which generally represent the last couple of months.

brand 1: 33% bromazolam
brand 2: 72% bromazolam
brand 3: 73% etizolam, 13% bromazolam, 6% nitrazepam.
brand 4: 45% bromazolam, one was contaminated with metonitazene on top
brand 5: only 5% of 17 samples had diazepam, rest were RCs or nothing

If you're someone I know PM me and I'll let you know who those brands are.

 

[Bleaney]

That's a really sorry and sad state of affairs.

Thankfully, for the moment, there does seem to be at least one vendor who are gaining a rep for supplying genuine pills.

All of the diaz orders that I have placed with them so far have tested genuine for both their Martin Dows and Bensedin. This is on top of a recommendation from someone else who's had the same experience.

This sugests that vendors, or at least some of them, are fully aware whether the products they are being supplied with are genuine or not.

Or maybe some of them have better contacts / better supply chains.

It's against the rules to provide vendor info so please no PMs as I won't be providing this vendors name. In order to protect them from potential LE infiltration as much as anything.

Most of the rest of them are hit and miss, depending on the substance and brand that they have in stock at any given time.

Up until this point I've been able to get replacements if an order tested fake, or if they sent a different product than what I ordered. Whether it was accidental or a deliberate substition.

It's proving a more difficult so far to get what I actually ordered on my latest order, as I ordered Soma 350s but was sent Nitrazepam. The blisters do look similar if you don't look closely and actually bother to read what it says on the blister, so it was probably just a careless mistake from the shipper.

And another vendor that I've been using for a long time has added a clause to their Ts and Cs that any issues must be brought to their attention within one week. This doesn't give enough time to get a Wedinos test result, and maybe that's why they've done it! (At least I don't think they had that clause previously, but I can't be 100% sure.)

I have pointed this out to them after having been supplied with Nucod codeine, where every single Wedinos test result so far has tested them as fake.

I'm still waiting for the test result, several weeks later!

 

[sadasaulna]

Please share your test results when they finally arrive. WEDINOS hardly the fastest service but we're highly luck to have it. Like we struck a goldmine compared to many other countries.

I have a solid UK supplier for Diazepam... for now... they even send some of their own batches off to WEDINOS and produce the results (assuming they're not just stealing some existing results) if that falls apart then I'm risking customs imports. Either etizolam from the US or RCs from Europe. They have Bromazolam but steering clear of that shit. I have my sights on some other RCs which score pretty high in experience evaluations. I wouldn't be buying a lot, so if I do get the dreaded custom's letter hoping its comes to nothing and just have to write off the experience. Chances wise I think you have to be relatively unlucky to get an envelope checked in an entire shipping container since they're must be countless examples in these days of ebay purchases of envelopes sent from various countries. Used to buy drugs from Russia and had no problems with shipments but that was before the Ukraine war. Funnily enough the Russian drug dealer now ships them from Ukraine.

 

[Bleaney]

Within the EU, I suspect that shipments from the Netherlands to the UK get more attention or screening that anything from anywhere else.

But even with that one route there would be huge volumes of packages and mail like you say.

So a lot probably still slips through, but at the same time I'm sure they are also continuing to seize plenty of stuff, from people trying this.

Once they've discovered any particular vendors packaging or stealth, if it's anything unique, that will probably be game over for them from then on.

Wordwide, Afghanistan etc is probably one of the most high alert source countries.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Hi folks, hope you are all good.

I have been working 12-13hr shifts and have hurt my back right in the centre, and also at the top of my spine, i can still move about ok but wondered if clonaz is a good muscle relaxant? if i took a quarter at work? or would you stick to half a diaz?
I have dhc but that's not touching it whilst i work.

Apologies for de-railing the chat.
Sadasaulna be careful buddy with your purchasing.
I had a mate get a letter asking him to go and see customs for his package, which he declined but i don't know if this put his name on any database etc, be careful mate.

 

[opiofr3k]

stick with diaz

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I think diazepam is superior muscle relaxant and makes you less wasted but clonazepam is much better than alprazolam, which only plus side is it makes you so numb that you don't give a fuck about anything, which is also its con.

But if you are normal responded regarding to diaz and clon, I don't see reason for clon, particularly because it makes you dumber when performing.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Fair do's, thanks for the reply, i'm new (ish) to clonaz and my diaz supply is inconsistent hence the question.

I'll probably give it a go later on in the day, and the work i'm doing is easy, just tightening bolts and opening machines checking bearings etc but some of the components are a right pain to get at.

Appreciate the reply Thanks.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Clon is superior to diaz as sleep medicine, and actually has so long duration of action, longest of any benzo I have ever used, that you could use it before going to sleep, and still be under residual effect the whole work day. But onset is like hour oral, peaking in 2 or more hours, much faster sublingual tho'. So take it early enough if you are intending to use it as a sleep med.

 

[sadasaulna]

Within the EU, I suspect that shipments from the Netherlands to the UK get more attention or screening that anything from anywhere else.

But even with that one route there would be huge volumes of packages and mail like you say.

So a lot probably still slips through, but at the same time I'm sure they are also continuing to seize plenty of stuff, from people trying this.

Once they've discovered any particular vendors packaging or stealth, if it's anything unique, that will probably be game over for them from then on.

Wordwide, Afghanistan etc is probably one of the most high alert source countries.

I never mentioned the Netherlands but you sussed it, you may have an idea of the supplier I'm talking about. I'd be buying max 90 pills (30 each of 3 x RCs I'd like to sample) so that should easily fit in a normal jiffie bag that looks like any other piece of mail in a jiffy that you might be getting from ebay or wherever. But yeah I did worry that may be the case re Netherlands. If I was customs, I'd be looking pretty close at Netherlands shipments too!

Got my Etizolam from Singapore back in the day.

Sadasaulna be careful buddy with your purchasing.
I had a mate get a letter asking him to go and see customs for his package, which he declined but i don't know if this put his name on any database etc, be careful mate.

You're probably right mate. I've been lucky so far with overseas purchases but eventually your luck always runs out. I suspect you do get put on a file and might get an extra pat down and luggage check next time you come back into the UK from another country which wouldn't be fun. I wish I lived in Portugal, they have a really chill outlook on drugs for personal use, plus its a beautiful country. I probably wont do it, I'm just toying with the idea and its nice to have options even if you don't have to use them yet.

And talking of being safe, I think you're just trying to convince yourself re the clonaz. Its not a good muscle relaxant anyway. Soma would work better for that, but I'd have the same advice, I think you could easily just end up with a higher tolerance and be on two substances, so my advice is stick to the diaz and work on giving it a downward trend. I like drugs, but *more* drugs is usually not the answer to anything. Doing both sounds like a recipe for more addiction.

 

[50shadesofDave]

And talking of being safe, I think you're just trying to convince yourself re the clonaz. Its not a good muscle relaxant anyway. Soma would work better for that, but I'd have the same advice, I think you could easily just end up with a higher tolerance and be on two substances, so my advice is stick to the diaz and work on giving it a downward trend. I like drugs, but *more* drugs is usually not the answer to anything. Doing both sounds like a recipe for more addiction.

Thanks, i understand as those have been my concerns for some time.
Thing is, after a few months off work and not really doing anything i've pretty much jumped straight into a 12 hour per day weekly shift, averaging 17000 steps and lifting and moving broken parts has my legs, back and neck in real bad pain, i need to hack two months to cover bills.

I've stayed at maintenance for a while so just need to physically adjust to the situation.

Cheers.