EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

[50shadesofDave]

Hi Sadsaulna, i have ordered a box of 28 diaz recently 5mg Teva and were spot on, however the order qty on the request form had it at 20 tabs?. They were expensive, but very much a treat.

I was thinking about the equivalency chart last night, no sleep, 3 x bensedins + 1 x dow and at 4am an alpraz random dose.
Little sleep but very wobbly this morning, could be stress as the dwp were on my case yesterday. I'm going to try clonazepam for sleep. But here's the thing with the chart, i'd be doubling up my diaz dose which can't be good, any idea how it was achieved 'accuratley'? and i take it it can't be trusted.

Phenibut, had a three day bender on it ages ago 2 1/2 gram first night and third day was around 3 1/2 gram but felt awful so they went in the bin, that first night was a blast though, and until BL i did'nt realise it had such a tolerance issue, glad i binned the pack.

I've got to go out now so i'll be back at this thread later.

Take it easy folks.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Bleaney if you don't mind me asking, we're you put up to be assesed by friends? or was it something you concluded you needed to do, and at what age. No need to answer any of the above i'm just curious, did you feel you were on the spectrum somehow?

I'm still trying to figure out how to go about my own assesment, given my gp's know how much i dislike them and they know i think they are corrupt. I'd have no issue in saving up and going private if i did'nt need a referal, which a quick google suggests i need, to get access to the correct MH practicioner.

I was at my gp's this morning to pick up a fit note, there was an elderly lady infront of me who had been fainting at weekend several times, she initially went to A+E but got the all clear, they told her to go and see her gp, she could'nt get an appointment for three weeks ffs, receptionists stonewalled her, i overheard the conversation.
It seems to be getting worse by the week the (NHS).

And don't worry if you don't want to answer my questions, it's sensitive and i understand.

Thank you.

 

[sadasaulna]

Hi Sadsaulna, i have ordered a box of 28 diaz recently 5mg Teva and were spot on, however the order qty on the request form had it at 20 tabs?. They were expensive, but very much a treat.

I was thinking about the equivalency chart last night, no sleep, 3 x bensedins + 1 x dow and at 4am an alpraz random dose.
Little sleep but very wobbly this morning, could be stress as the dwp were on my case yesterday. I'm going to try clonazepam for sleep. But here's the thing with the chart, i'd be doubling up my diaz dose which can't be good, any idea how it was achieved 'accuratley'? and i take it it can't be trusted.

Phenibut, had a three day bender on it ages ago 2 1/2 gram first night and third day was around 3 1/2 gram but felt awful so they went in the bin, that first night was a blast though, and until BL i did'nt realise it had such a tolerance issue, glad i binned the pack.

I've got to go out now so i'll be back at this thread later.

Take it easy folks.

The Teva sound good. Being 5mg is a good thing when it comes to genuine UK pills in my books as its the most commonly prescribed unit I think (although I'm told their guidelines are now units of 2mg for new prescriptions).

Ultimately I think the equivalency chart is sort of just a vague guide anyway. Each drug is different in its effects profile, half life and likely its exact withdrawals and tolerance levels. Sorry to hear you're struggling. Wish I could give you advice but I can't say what combo would work best for you, only that I hope you can do a slow taper. It's worth noting that Ashton manual has you taking less in the day and more at night. To get to zero from 40mg its advising a 26 stage taper taking 6 months to a year to complete. Which is all well and good but the dosage range suggested would need you to have a supply of 2mg pills ideally so you can make the fine adjustments and with dodgy pills dose ranges fluctuate.

It can be very difficult to get in the 'system' for MH. What do you consider your possible diagnosis to be?

The magic of phenibut is not to smash it. Smallish doses spaced very well apart so that tolerance doesn't kick in. But you definitely don't need it in your life right now!

 

[50shadesofDave]

Cheers mate, 40mg was a one off as i get so stressed without sleep, plus i can't be sure of the dose of the bens + the alpraz are a dodgy looking press.

I believe i have abandonment issues since i was shipped about as a kid to live with Grans + Aunts, my mum wanted a daughter (i was told). The amount of time i was away usually lasted around six weeks before going home, i actually wanted to stay with my Gran as i loved being out in the countryside and had made good friends there, i was about six years old, i asked to start school there but it did'nt happen, i was only away about five times all in, different part of the country though, still visit the place sometimes. I never really understood what was going on but i do remember the looks on peoples faces as i was asked to try girls clothes in BHS etc. None of this bothered me as a kid though, and still loved my mum to bits.

A lot of trauma happened from 2004 including seven deaths of friends, some i was present at, a couple of days after my mums funeral i was assaulted badly and lost the sight in my left eye, fractured skull, jaw, eye socket and cheekbone, because of the sight loss they would'nt surgically repair my cheekbone so my face sags a little down the left side, the sight loss was optic atrophy which was made twice as bad after the assault, i was in hospital a week and did'nt recieve a single visitor, i knew then i would travel life alone, but that's fine and i'm ok with it.
So i think a little ptsd may be in there aswell. Since the assault i've felt very vulnerable in public and i'm ashamed to say it but i've not left the house socially in over a decade, i tried to talk to my gp about all this and he just brushed me off, this is where the NHS + myself were finished.

I can deal with the childhood stuff as i can sort of understand it.
But 2004-2011 is imprinted at the forefront of my mind, 24/7 365. My mind just goes like a washing machine, can't concentrate, fail at work, can't sleep, i'll start diy jobs on the house but never finish them, struggle to leave the house

So given my issues with the NHS i have absolutley no idea who/where to turn to to tell someone, as it stands you are the only person who knows.
So thank you for listening to me gripe.

Take care yourself.
Dave.

 

[sadasaulna]

Cheers mate, 40mg was a one off as i get so stressed without sleep, plus i can't be sure of the dose of the bens + the alpraz are a dodgy looking press.

I believe i have abandonment issues since i was shipped about as a kid to live with Grans + Aunts, my mum wanted a daughter (i was told). The amount of time i was away usually lasted around six weeks before going home, i actually wanted to stay with my Gran as i loved being out in the countryside and had made good friends there, i was about six years old, i asked to start school there but it did'nt happen, i was only away about five times all in, different part of the country though, still visit the place sometimes. I never really understood what was going on but i do remember the looks on peoples faces as i was asked to try girls clothes in BHS etc. None of this bothered me as a kid though, and still loved my mum to bits.

A lot of trauma happened from 2004 including seven deaths of friends, some i was present at, a couple of days after my mums funeral i was assaulted badly and lost the sight in my left eye, fractured skull, jaw, eye socket and cheekbone, because of the sight loss they would'nt surgically repair my cheekbone so my face sags a little down the left side, the sight loss was optic atrophy which was made twice as bad after the assault, i was in hospital a week and did'nt recieve a single visitor, i knew then i would travel life alone, but that's fine and i'm ok with it.
So i think a little ptsd may be in there aswell. Since the assault i've felt very vulnerable in public and i'm ashamed to say it but i've not left the house socially in over a decade, i tried to talk to my gp about all this and he just brushed me off, this is where the NHS + myself were finished.

I can deal with the childhood stuff as i can sort of understand it.
But 2004-2011 is imprinted at the forefront of my mind, 24/7 365. My mind just goes like a washing machine, can't concentrate, fail at work, can't sleep, i'll start diy jobs on the house but never finish them, struggle to leave the house

So given my issues with the NHS i have absolutley no idea who/where to turn to to tell someone, as it stands you are the only person who knows.
So thank you for listening to me gripe.

Take care yourself.
Dave.

Wow your GP sounds brutal Dave. Definitely sounds like real issues there that would need therapy to address, in multiple areas - abandonment issues, PTSD, grief.

You should absolutely qualify for a referral to Mindsmatter or whatever its called in your part of the UK. I would practically demand that from the GP and consider making a complaint to care quality commission if they are unwilling to consider this. Hold firm that you NEED help.

In addition check if you have a service like this in your area you can be referred into.

Community Prevention and Engagement Team :: Lancashire and South Cumbria NHS Foundation Trust

Mental health rehabilitation services aim to work with people to help them acquire or regain the skills and confidence to live successfully in the community.

www.lscft.nhs.uk

You get a caseworker assigned to you for up to 6 months. They will help you with all aspect of social re-engagement using graded exposure and can help with all aspects of care you need (like helping with gp appts etc, supporting you in application for any help you may be due).

I really hope your area has something like this.

You can also talk to the mental health charity MIND, they may have advice on how you can access services.

Best of luck mate.

 

[sadasaulna]

Oh one other thing I forgot to mention. My local library has been a beacon of social inclusion. I've met friends there, make good friends with the staff, it has been a way of getting out of the house.

I'm not sure if your local library is any good, but they can be nice chilled places with a lot of activities and you meet nice people on the whole. I go and play board games there with a group and made a bunch of mates.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Thank you.
The library is a great shout, i will check it's still open, they were going to close it down but i'm sure they tried to integrate it elsewhere, it was next door to a pub on a street that was made CPO for a new housing estate, there was a lot of local anger so i'm sure it will be open somewhere.

Cheers for being a sounding board and giving me some direction.
I really do appreciate your time, thoughts and advice.

Take care of yourself.

 

[Spurs_1882]

Cheers mate, 40mg was a one off as i get so stressed without sleep, plus i can't be sure of the dose of the bens + the alpraz are a dodgy looking press.

I believe i have abandonment issues since i was shipped about as a kid to live with Grans + Aunts, my mum wanted a daughter (i was told). The amount of time i was away usually lasted around six weeks before going home, i actually wanted to stay with my Gran as i loved being out in the countryside and had made good friends there, i was about six years old, i asked to start school there but it did'nt happen, i was only away about five times all in, different part of the country though, still visit the place sometimes. I never really understood what was going on but i do remember the looks on peoples faces as i was asked to try girls clothes in BHS etc. None of this bothered me as a kid though, and still loved my mum to bits.

A lot of trauma happened from 2004 including seven deaths of friends, some i was present at, a couple of days after my mums funeral i was assaulted badly and lost the sight in my left eye, fractured skull, jaw, eye socket and cheekbone, because of the sight loss they would'nt surgically repair my cheekbone so my face sags a little down the left side, the sight loss was optic atrophy which was made twice as bad after the assault, i was in hospital a week and did'nt recieve a single visitor, i knew then i would travel life alone, but that's fine and i'm ok with it.
So i think a little ptsd may be in there aswell. Since the assault i've felt very vulnerable in public and i'm ashamed to say it but i've not left the house socially in over a decade, i tried to talk to my gp about all this and he just brushed me off, this is where the NHS + myself were finished.

I can deal with the childhood stuff as i can sort of understand it.
But 2004-2011 is imprinted at the forefront of my mind, 24/7 365. My mind just goes like a washing machine, can't concentrate, fail at work, can't sleep, i'll start diy jobs on the house but never finish them, struggle to leave the house

So given my issues with the NHS i have absolutley no idea who/where to turn to to tell someone, as it stands you are the only person who knows.
So thank you for listening to me gripe.

Take care yourself.
Dave.

I feel for you mate, I have had my struggles too, some of them similar ones, including with NHS staff. Though to be fair looking back I think the majority of the ones I've dealt with (and there's been A LOT) have at least meant well, I've also had a couple of really bad ones. All things considered it sounds to me like you're doing well in the face of adversity.

 

[Spurs_1882]

A question if anyone can help out. Long story short I am struggling a bit with benzo usage at the moment. Would it be better for not getting physically addicted/rebounds/tolerance to mix and match benzos with carisoprodol, or would it not make much difference? What I mean is, for example, would it be better to take benzo 1x week and carisoprodol 1x per week, or would that be just as bad as taking benzos 2x per week because the mechanism of action is similar (I don't mean is it better to take them at the same time as each other). My guess is it's still better to mix and match which is what I've been doing but I'm not sure.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Thanks for the kind words Spurs, i'm a fine one to talk but i would be coming at this from the angle of less substances for your body to handle, only takes one shitty day and the best laid plans are out of the window.
Thanks again mate.
And look after yourself.
Dave.

 

[sadasaulna]

A question if anyone can help out. Long story short I am struggling a bit with benzo usage at the moment. Would it be better for not getting physically addicted/rebounds/tolerance to mix and match benzos with carisoprodol, or would it not make much difference? What I mean is, for example, would it be better to take benzo 1x week and carisoprodol 1x per week, or would that be just as bad as taking benzos 2x per week because the mechanism of action is similar (I don't mean is it better to take them at the same time as each other). My guess is it's still better to mix and match which is what I've been doing but I'm not sure.

If you're doing one pill 1x a week, I'm pretty sure you're fine (or do you mean you're binging 1x a week?) Need to know dosage levels.

I've mixed benzo usage with carisoprodol. Can't say I was a fan of carisoprodol, it's OK in a pinch. Its probably just as addictive and problematic as doing as similar dose of a classic benzo. Maybe worse since you've now got two similar but different substances your body is getting used to each with their own to a small degree different withdrawal symptoms.

I could be wrong, just my 2 cents.

In terms of addiction... let me put it this way, I had a months long "habit" of 5-10mg of diazepam once per day. When I ran out it was easy enough, down to 2.5mg for the last of the pills then nothing and about 2 weeks of moderate anxiety. Off completely for about 5 months and aside from drinking too much, no problems. Recently bought some diazepam to get my drinking down and got fake pills, that bromazolam probably laced with highly dangerous nitazenes crap. Had a blackout first time in my life, found I'd taken a whole bunch of pills I have no memory taking and I'd cut my wrists.

Since then I've been having crippling anxiety and very close to full panic attacks for over 7 days now its unbearable. One day it feels slightly better, the next day worse. I have some (hopefully) legit Martin Dows on the way, but it made me realise that coming off blackout doses even just a few days worth of use has rebound anxiety far, far in excess of anything I ever got off my responsible benzo usage.

 

[LoginNotSecure]

For some reason I've been finding those Bensedins that came highly recommended a bit hit and miss. Maybe I need to increase the dose even more but that would be taking me over 20mg which is something I want to delay as long as possible.

So I'm back on the galenkia rivotril clonaz, at just under a full 2mg tablet, but I find them 100% reliable and consistent at the same dosage every time (although inevitably the dosage is gradually increasing to account for tolerance) in providing relief from the hideous social awkwardness and anxiety my neuro diversity causes me.

I swear several people told me that getting assessed for Autism and then as it turned out also ADHD also would help me massively. It kind of has and it hasn't. At least now I understand the reasons for the issues, but they are still very much there, and they are not going to go away.

Well the ADHD issues you can get legit meds for that actually work, but with the Autism issues the choices seem to be you either have to tough it out, find strategies to help cope, withdraw from the world and become a recluse, or self-medicate as sensibly as possible with w/e seems to cause the least damage or impairment in helping with the issues. Such is the state of things that I have not found a better solution than benzos, and dont expect to either.

Has anyone else looked into and understood the underlying root causes for any benzo (or other) habits they may have?

What you are finding, is tolerance and not much else. Cut down and be consistent, even if you think one may be bunk. Reality of it is you’re just trying to kid yourself into having more and justifying it.

 

[50shadesofDave]

I had the opposite over the last couple of weeks with bens, trying to reinstate to 30mg after being off them for a while, however i settled down and think Bleaneys hump theory was bang on the money.
I also had some Dows which seemed very even in dose, and half of one at 4pm was giving me a nice hours sleep, the new batch of Dows from the same vendor don't seem to be hitting that spot (tolerance)?
But half a bens at 4pm is still giving me the sleepy feel.
Everything regarding diaz seems tits up at the moment to me.

 

[steewith2ees]

I had the opposite over the last couple of weeks with bens, trying to reinstate to 30mg after being off them for a while, however i settled down and think Bleaneys hump theory was bang on the money.
I also had some Dows which seemed very even in dose, and half of one at 4pm was giving me a nice hours sleep, the new batch of Dows from the same vendor don't seem to be hitting that spot (tolerance)?
But half a bens at 4pm is still giving me the sleepy feel.
Everything regarding diaz seems tits up at the moment to me.

Yeah, the diaz is essentially a coin toss with respect to the Martin Dows and Bensedin, with half legit and the rest fake. I would not expect the Dows to be very even in dose, I would expect nothing other than fully and consistently dosed tablets from the one product that uses Roche's actual brand name. Get south asian generics if you can - theyre so cheap its not worth the hassle making fake ones.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Yeah, the diaz is essentially a coin toss with respect to the Martin Dows and Bensedin, with half legit and the rest fake. I would not expect the Dows to be very even in dose, I would expect nothing other than fully and consistently dosed tablets from the one product that uses Roche's actual brand name. Get south asian generics if you can - theyre so cheap its not worth the hassle making fake ones.

If i could find non TG Whatsapp vendors i would try other brands, i did find some Teva 5mg which were lovely but a bit expensive.
Again, i took a Dow earlier this evening and was struggling to keep my eyes open, 20mg dose not out of the question.

I had the Dow's from a vendor i found and placed a test order which felt very consistant, next order were these under/over efforts.
A question for anyone more experienced, would a tab containing say 4mg diaz have the same taste profile/strength as one with 15mg? And am i being paranoid that counterfieters have found the key to taste and use r/c's as the main carrier?

someone mentioned on the thread that 2mg tabs would be ideal and i'd go along with that given we can't seem to trust anything above 5mg currently, i'll take 5k please

God know's what my actuall tolerance is now.

Take care all.

 

[sadasaulna]

I had the Dow's from a vendor i found and placed a test order which felt very consistant, next order were these under/over efforts.
A question for anyone more experienced, would a tab containing say 4mg diaz have the same taste profile/strength as one with 15mg? And am i being paranoid that counterfieters have found the key to taste and use r/c's as the main carrier?

Only WEDINOS could tell you for sure. But you'll know what Diazepam *feels* like by now as well as how it tastes. Still it feels like more than ever that service is required for the diaz market so thankful we have it.

 

[sadasaulna]

Yeah, the diaz is essentially a coin toss with respect to the Martin Dows and Bensedin, with half legit and the rest fake. I would not expect the Dows to be very even in dose, I would expect nothing other than fully and consistently dosed tablets from the one product that uses Roche's actual brand name. Get south asian generics if you can - theyre so cheap its not worth the hassle making fake ones.

Erm... Dow's are South Asian aren't they?

 

[steewith2ees]

Erm... Dow's are South Asian aren't they?

Yes, they are Pakistani but I was referring to the countless generics used from India across to Taiwan. I should have qualified this by adding 'notwithstanding the MD Valium' but as they had already been covered in the post I assumed most would understand that this would be implied.

 

[sadasaulna]

Sorry - I wasn't intending to be confrontational, just wasn't sure, I'm no expert on Dows. My newly received batch was the first time I've tried these. But that said - there are fake Dows I think, that still have Diazepam in them, so it seems someone finds it worthwhile to fake. Reason being the Dows I recently received which taste and feel spot on have identical serial numbers on each strip so I'm guessing they're not legit product from Dow? Can't fault what I received though so far wherever they were put together and been very happy with the new vendor I found that have been straight down the line with me - they don't pretend to be a "pharmacy" with all those stock photos of smiling Doctors - they present as a dealer and comms with them has been excellent - snappy, friendly and helpful.

My understanding is that most of the generic "UK" brands of Diazepam that you'd get from a genuine doctors script at the Chemist are mainly sourced from India (manufacturing) with the chemicals themselves coming from China. I remember supply chain problems causing issues during the pandemic. At one point I was in bad withdrawals from Citalopram as I had a script but chemist after chemist were out of stock. Scary.

Probably the main difference is quality control will be enforced more on a international brand that subs out to India. Script or not, you're not getting Roche in the UK (well I've never seen them ever). That said I had a browse of Dow's website yesterday and they looked like a pretty good outfit.

As an alcoholic currently reducing my intake I was looking into B vitamins since I understand chronic alcoholism ends up stripping you of B vitamins. Some of the symptoms I've been experiencing seem to chime with Vitamin B deficiency I started taking multi vitamins since I haven't had any in ages and my diet has been shite to be honest. I'm going to get some B vitamin tabs - Thiamine and B12.

So it was with some surprise I read that NICE guidance is telling GPs to stop prescribing B vits for alcoholism, and they more or less blatantly say in the guidance that the issue is cost to the NHS and that the patient should be told to source them OTC.

 

[steewith2ees]

Sorry - I wasn't intending to be confrontational, just wasn't sure, I'm no expert on Dows. My newly received batch was the first time I've tried these. But that said - there are fake Dows I think, that still have Diazepam in them, so it seems someone finds it worthwhile to fake. Reason being the Dows I recently received which taste and feel spot on have identical serial numbers on each strip so I'm guessing they're not legit product from Dow? Can't fault what I received though so far wherever they were put together and been very happy with the new vendor I found that have been straight down the line with me - they don't pretend to be a "pharmacy" with all those stock photos of smiling Doctors - they present as a dealer and comms with them has been excellent - snappy, friendly and helpful.

My understanding is that most of the generic "UK" brands of Diazepam that you'd get from a genuine doctors script at the Chemist are mainly sourced from India (manufacturing) with the chemicals themselves coming from China. I remember supply chain problems causing issues during the pandemic. At one point I was in bad withdrawals from Citalopram as I had a script but chemist after chemist were out of stock. Scary.

Probably the main difference is quality control will be enforced more on a international brand that subs out to India. Script or not, you're not getting Roche in the UK (well I've never seen them ever). That said I had a browse of Dow's website yesterday and they looked like a pretty good outfit.

As an alcoholic currently reducing my intake I was looking into B vitamins since I understand chronic alcoholism ends up stripping you of B vitamins. Some of the symptoms I've been experiencing seem to chime with Vitamin B deficiency I started taking multi vitamins since I haven't had any in ages and my diet has been shite to be honest. I'm going to get some B vitamin tabs - Thiamine and B12.

So it was with some surprise I read that NICE guidance is telling GPs to stop prescribing B vits for alcoholism, and they more or less blatantly say in the guidance that the issue is cost to the NHS and that the patient should be told to source them OTC.

No no, you were not being confrontational, just perfectly pedantic, which was essential following my lazy and with the clarification following the post I made it still seems gommo level contradictory considering it was posted by myself, who, being a member for about 10 years after lurking for the previous 8, means I still needs to pretend I know a fair amount about drugs even though I know next to nothing.

As a weed smoker, acid user and speed taking raver by the time I could get into some discos at 15 years old, I knew more than most of my peers. With a nursing career reinforcing the delusion it took me the best part of another 30 years to finally realise I know fuck all. I even used to believe it was not a real crime but just because it is a rare example of a crime of malum prohibitum it matters not. By now everyone knows that its a habitual crime, not a single mistake and the fact that I break no other laws is of no interest to any real person.