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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

Although benzos have slightly varying effect profiles they are all cross tolerant with each other, and any type of benzo can be substituted for any other to prevent the w/ds of abrupt cesssation..

Using other benzos instead of diazepam isnt really going to lower your tolerance to diazepam. It might feel like it on the first couple of days back on it, but once your brain re-adjusts you'll very quickly be right back to where you left off.

The only thing with using diazepam as your regular benzo is that you'll struggle to get anything that lasts as long if your supply runs out or you get sent a bad batch.
 
50shadesofDave said:
Thank you, i had been dependent on diaz at 30mg dailly for three years, my supply got cut short and had to scramble the alpaz and bromaz as they were the only benzo i could find.
Now i have diaz again i've been trying 20mg to reinstate and maintin but i'll go back up to 30mg and start from there, i did think the three months off diaz may have lowered my tolerance, but still too many noticable symptoms.

I did read that getting your re-instatement sorted was'nt easy.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,
As others have pointed out being off diazepam won't have lowered your benzo tolerance if you're doing other benzos. In fact alprazolam has a short half life which can make them hellishly redosable. Regardless of the benzo you are causing down regulation of your GABA-A receptors. and you mind will crave something to hit those again.

Are you relatively self controlled? I walk to the shop each night to buy my alcohol I have to buy once per evening since if I had two bottles I would just start tearing into the next one when the first was done. I only buy in the late evening since if I bought early (say 5PM) I'd find it almost impossible to not start before say 6PM. OTOH Bleaney mentioned buying 1000 Etizolam being a huge mistake which I suggest means he has a personality that acts towards benzos like I do Alcohol. I had a stash of well over 400 benzos of different types, 80 barbs and a 100 phenibut and they took me literally six years to slowly get through. If that had been that quantity of alcohol in my 'stash' I'd probably not be alive. At one point I was sober (from alcohol) for many years and doing a single 250mg dose of phenibut maybe once every 14 days.

You mentioned 30mg of diaz which is at least a consistent value from the sounds of it. Its high but it can be managed downward. I know a girl with a long term NHS script for 20mg diazepam (5mg * 4 time per day) and she's been on that years.

There is the Ashton manual for tapering. And the thing I think peeps forget about tapering regimes is that there is no thing as too slow so long as the dose is coming down on the overall.

In addition to that needs to be some kind of therapy. Most of us who (who are not out to get mullered) use non prescribed prescription drugs do so for a reason. We've been shamed by GPs as drug seekers simply because we're desperately trying to manage our distress. GPs and Psychs hate it when you go above their heads. Yet they usually wont offer talking therapies because of the cost and a useful way of barring you from them is that you're and addict and therefore have only yourself to blame. You can get clean as I have done for months and years at a time and it doens't solve the underlying issues that caused you to seek out those substances in the first place.

One more thing and please don't think I'm being preachy, you mentioned you had a new job and were struggling with the anxiety. There was a lad at my old pace who had been an alcoholic and would mix small amounts of vodka with sprite which he'd drink all day. In his mind he was winning at life and his job, the reality was all his coworkers knew he was drunk.
 
At the time I bought 1000 Etizolam was just at the time my use was escalating, so at that time it was a huge mistake, and lead to an increased worsening of my usage. It was the wrong decision at the wrong time.

Things are quite different for me now at this stage, and while I don't have anything like that amount of a stockpile any more, I generally have enough to last at least until I can be sure of getting a new order and getting them tested as good. I never uncontrollably blitz my stockpile by the whole blister pack, or multiple blister pack, every dose time, any more.

Thankfully those days are long behind me.
 
I'll be ok with the taper if the tabs are diaz 100%. I seem to have settled on 30 mg now, 20mg in the evening and breaking one in half and taking half to work for the jitters.
The new job was accepted as a reason to get out of bed and back into a proper routine, as usuall i was promised the earth at interview and told i'd be on early's 7am-3pm, now my first two shifts were, but my next two are 11pm-7am with a one day break and back onto one 7am start.
My whole monthly rota is like that so i'm applying elsewhere, i'm a bit pissed with the place as we interviewed on the assumption i would get a minimum 30 hours, now it's 20 hours which barely cover bills.

Onwards we go.
Thank you folks.
 
Also if you have any kind of sleep problems, the last thing you really want to be doing is alternating day and night shifts. That could fuck anyones sleep up, let alone if you already have issues.

Although the other way of looking at that, is that if you're already using benzos for sleep, you can use them to your advantage in this sort of situation. And any job is better than no job - sometimes.

Diazepam usage used to be very widespread among nurses who rotated shifts a while ago. They were kept in unlocked cupboards so they'd just help themselves to w/e they wanted to help the adjust their sleep to the shift rotation. This was in the late 90s, when we were friendly with our neighbours, one of whome was a nurse, and her b/f was also a big fan of the diazepam she'd bring home with her from work.

I'm sure the situation will be extremely different these days, with no such luxuries or perks alllowed any more.
 
Thst's all it is at the minute, a job, routine (i thought) and a positive attitude.
I have an interview lined up for a position i would really want and i'm gonna need my blagging shoes on for this one.

I'll keep applying for more suitable work, but i've been 'on the tools' since i left school and my body is knackered now, and need to take it a bit easier, if i do land this new position i'll be saving up for my own start up and winding down to retirement, in my f'kin dreams.
 
Glad to hear you're in that better place Bleaney!

UPDATE on those "bunk" bensedin pills. They're not bunk, but they're not diazepam. And whatever they are, they are pretty potent in higher doses. Not sure if every pill is active or not they've all been tasteless chalk. Being an idiot and thinking they were bunk I thought well f*** it I'll take 5 and see if that does anything. Really dumb move on my part.

TLDR: Stay safe peeps! There is some nasty stuff going around.

Subjective Properties:

Muscle relaxant: I'm not a very good judge since while I get anxious it doesn't usually come in the form of muscle tension, I have felt fairly physically relaxed though, so maybe.

Anxiolytic: not much at the time, but felt extremely calm next day, today reminded me of when I was very suicidal back in 2016 and was railing phenobarbital with alcohol and next few days I felt like a very calm walking zombie. Calm AF but couldn't care less if I lived or died.

Half life: Unknown, but I was still drowsy into this evening so pretty long I suspect. In fact I've been drinking my usual tipple tonight and I'm less than half way through the bottle and feel unusually smashed and I've done no pills.

Warmth/Euphoria: None. I find some drugs like Diazepam and Etizolam have a warm glow that is very pleasant and made me love Benzos in the first place. These don't have anything like that, just blackout. I must have been redosing since more pills were gone than I remember taking. I now realise what this "compulsive redosing" thing is that people talk about on these forums. Not fun, rather terrifying actually.

Sedative: Not at the time, spent till after 3AM on the pooter after dosing around 9PM. However I then slept in tiil 3.30PM, awoke feeling like it was 7am completely shocked when I saw the clock, I thought maybe the clock battery had died but no, the time was correct. Instead of my normally restless dreams/nightmares I'd had none at all.

Delusions of Sobriety: Maybe but then how come I was able to write decent computer code that compiled perfectly in the C computer language without syntax errors when it's not a forgiving language by any means. If anything I wrote better computer code than I can sober.

Onset curve: Not noticeable. Certainly no Diazepam "hump", I only realized I was f***ed up way later on, in fact only properly when I woke up over 12 hours later.

Psychomotor: Very noticeable, felt unsteady all of today.

Amnesiac: Very potent amnesiac. Most of it was a blackout. I recall working on my C computer programs into the early hours but not what I'd been coding until I looked today. Also I woke up shocked to find I had slit my wrists. Only on seeing that did the memory come back of doing it but not much else. Today was a long sleeve shirt day for the first time in a long time.

So I'm a junky now?

I have have almost NEVER been a pill muncher, had blackouts or done crazy things like self harm while on pills. I pride myself on being a responsible user. The only time I've taken a lot in one go has been when I was suicidal (phenobarbs and alcohol). The most diazepam I ever took in one night was 30mg and that was an absolute one off. My usual diazepam dose is 5mg and that's always been enough to be able to feel calm, anxiety free and enjoy reading a book before I go to bed and doze of happily.

So what is this s***?

The hell if I know, only WEDINOS will tell. I have an awful feeling it may be some of that nasty crap that's been polluting the supply. The lack of taste surprised me.

Conclusion:

Diazepam you haven't tested with WEDINOS seems a hell of a risky bet right now, regardless of if you have a vendor that has never sent anything but legit pills in the past. Going forward I think clonaz and etizolam are the future. I found a source of RCs but am reluctant to try since it might end up with some dangerous blackout/redosing thing that is not my thing at all and with my depression the way it is that could be a fatal combo.
 
sadasaulna said:
Absolutely. I've not touched them tonight and I'm doing a WEDINOS and even then given how fricking weird these pills are I'm not sure I would want to take anymore. They're off. They're not diazepam, I've taken diazepam loads of time and whatever these are Diazepam they are NOT.
Click to expand...
good move - let us know what they test as
 
Will do. That they were pathetically pressed chalk speaks volumes. Reliably looking Bensedin package or not they were clearly poorly pressed crap. Which made me realise something I hadn't thought of before. I had previously presumed if someone is competent enough to produce good blister packs they were putting something halfway quality in.. but that doesn't really hold true if you consider there may be a market for blister pack production. After all, as someone with an interest in electronics I can have a professional PCBs made by a Chinese Manufacturer like PCBWay for next to nothing, and in volume if I cared enough to do so. So my assumption that the drug producer and blister pack maker were one and the same is likely false. Some knobhead making hundreds of thousands of cheaply pressed pills in their garage may be able to send them to a blister pack maker and have them packaged with any logos of their choice.

This makes the most sense since I was very confused at how these polluted pills suddenly started appearing on every major brand label from Galenika, MSJ, Accord, Actavis and even Martin Dows now (and that is not an exhaustive list). There are Chinese vendors who can take any white label thing and happily brand them as whatever you like. It doesn't make sense that a bunch of separate mfrs would all start selling this crap at once which WEDINOS shows is absolutely the case.

The bensedins I had in the past were always a high quality press, tasted of diazepam, had great consistency and hit just right, these things are outright shit. I would be interested to hear from others whose pills WEDINOS showed were bromazolam/metonitazine if they had the same chalky texture, because that seems to be the giveaway that the presser doesn't have the right chemical binders needed to make a smooth quality pill. If you look at the ingredients for properly made pills of any kind (psychoactive or not) their is a science to making the pills stable and smooth, hard and clean looking. That chalk crap is a sure sign of someone with a cheap press who doesn't know how to make pills that look or feel right.

That chalk nature is probably the biggest giveaway to showing amateurism in production. Literally the first pill I took out of the strip left fine powder on my desk with only the lightest of handling.

There is one Diazepam brand I have never seen these fakes appear in and I'm definitely not mentioning the name since that will be the next target for the fakers if I do.

Right now though my confidence in Diazepam is at an all time low since the market seems flooded with whatever utter monster is knocking this stuff up and I will be seeking other drugs. I'm literally at the point where I would trust RC pellets over diazepam since at least they're being honest about what they're selling. RC vendors have no incentive to pass one drug off as another since its a boutique market.
 
You mentioned a chalky taste, how did the tablet break down in your mouth (dissolved as expected or lumpy bits)?

How did each pill look out of the pack? you mentioned dodgy press, were all the edges uniform?
Or did you mean dodgy ingredients?.

Do you have a serial number from a strip?

Glad you lived to tell the tale, keep us informed, there seems to be a fair few results on wedinos where the pill looks to have ridges on one side of the press, they show on wedinos as Diaz but i have similar pressed pills and have been thinking they're just too strong somehow.
Do your pills have ridges as if they are pressed off centre?

Take care of yourself dude, and PLEASE don't be cutting yourself.
 
We had super-chalky Bensedin 'diaz' this time last year which tested for bromazolam iirc, was not at all happy tbh as had got 2 packs (ooh big spender eh). Bin.

We also got some Bensedin a couple months ago which tested for Diaz, not chalky, kind of shiny and firm

We have the diaz-tested Martin Dows atm (light blue) and they are good but commonly believed to be underdosed. 1.5 of the "10's" feels like a genuine 10mg to me, but I'm no expert.

The benzo market is grim, I only use them once a week on average and sometimes not at all for 2 or 3 weeks, so a pack lasts me quite a while. I test everything thesedays. Etizolam seems to be a solid bet though
 
50shadesofDave said:
You mentioned a chalky taste, how did the tablet break down in your mouth (dissolved as expected or lumpy bits)?

How did each pill look out of the pack? you mentioned dodgy press, were all the edges uniform?
Or did you mean dodgy ingredients?.

Do you have a serial number from a strip?

Glad you lived to tell the tale, keep us informed, there seems to be a fair few results on wedinos where the pill looks to have ridges on one side of the press, they show on wedinos as Diaz but i have similar pressed pills and have been thinking they're just too strong somehow.
Do your pills have ridges as if they are pressed off centre?

Take care of yourself dude, and PLEASE don't be cutting yourself.
Click to expand...

It breaks down to a chalk mush in your mouth, no lumpy bits. Out of the pack the shape was perfect, no imperfections but the even taking one out the strip the chalk was coming off on your fingers. I put one down on my desk and after picking it up it had left chalky powder on the desk. They were *very* fragile. A bit of mild pressure between two fingers would be enough to crush them.

I can't even wedinos these now or get S/Ns as I got so sick of them they're binned.

Both strips had same S/N but is that normal for a two strip pack of 30?

The cutting I think is because I've been very depressed recently then went off my mental health meds for a few days - felt euphoric for a bit (always do when I first come off), then things rapidly went down hill. I have a keyworker so will be letting her know I'm in a bad place. She's on holiday though so I will be ringing the crisis team instead. I think I was down too because the original purchase intent for these Diaz was to do a home detox to get off the booze and I got some dodgy crap instead. I rang Samaritans last night and they were absolutely useless, never again.

I don't want to do a full rehab as I did before since they're terrifying. Getting locked up with a load of hard drug users who have just got out of prison for stabbing people etc was not a plesant experience at all. I'm not a day drinker but I do want some protection against possible seizures and something to take the anxiety from the Alc withdrawals. I did such a detox with etizolam some years back and it was a complete success.
 
Off topic but when it comes to getting off booze, I was once prescribed acamprosate. Maybe it works for some people but it did zilch for me and the worst part was I had to visit the chemist each day to get one pill. They're not even dangerous in overdose so 1 pill at a time seemed like a deliberate shaming mechanism.

You see in my pharmacy there is special section they have for people picking up their methadone scripts or whatever. Maybe some of these people aren't keeping great care of themselves because the chairs set aside are filthy, and the chemist never clean them, despite every other part of the chemist being spotless as chemists always are.

When I had to pick up my acaomprosate I was made to wait in that area, clearly setting you aside from the "repspectable" customers. The whole experience was incredibly humiliating and the drug was useless.
 
I'm very sorry to hear your current strife, nothing seems to be straight forward during times of high stress.

The good thing here is you seem to know where you are at within yourself, and your circumstances.

Don't be too harsh on yourself through this.

And thank you for your detailed reply, mine don't match the detail but never the less do seem too strong, heavy wobble next morning etc.

Take it easy on yourself and good luck moving forward.
 
Thanks Dave for the kind words of support. I have these blips sometimes but there is usually a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm lucky enough to have landed in a wealthy area (even though I'm broke and on ESA) and the support here is marvelous compared to when I lived in Manchester and mental health support was non existent, it was GP, A&E or get sectioned (and even when my brother tried killing himself and had full on psychosis they admitted he needed sectioning but said they had no beds so discharged him).

In contrast here I have had some kind of key worker in my life for the past few years now and they are invaluable. My latest keyworker has finally got me counselling for sexual abuse that happened to me as a child.

Best of luck to you too.
 
Anytime mate, we are all going through shit, it's just different shit.

I'm glad you have a MH key worker, it's something. I had a mate get taken to the midlands from the northwest when he was sectioned, just shows the work needed to get MH services to a respectable level.

Take care pal 👍
 
Around the end of Nov. I happened to back my Christmas stash up with the one Clearnet vendor that, despite being as prone as most to having snide products, also stocks a wide range of genuine meds for those really paying attention as many medicines they sell, at least up until recently, are not logically worth counterfeiting, such as cheap and poorly manufactured yet still genuine African and Asian 10mg diazepam tablets.

As the most popular 10mg diazepam European generics diverted to the BM, the shear tons of Spanish Kern Prodes and Galenika Bensedin that are flying around have obviously made it worthwhile to counterfeit them, where as the various batches of Zepam and the like cost so little at source its still possible to sell them in good faith and maintain a ludicrous profit margin.

This vendor had previously sent me a free months course of Martin Dow Valium as a promotional stunt and being real, instantly created a blind spot with respect to how this product was in the same boat as the Bensedin and Kern Prodes - essentially, a coin toss as to whether or not one would obtain the real thing, which despite still being abundant were now mixed in with snides using novel triazolo's as the main adulterant. So, as an Xmas thing I though I would treat myself to some more, which arrived along with 30 Galenika Rivotril as well as 30 Hemofarm 2.5 mg Lorazepam.

I still have the picture in this thread somewhere, only afterwards noticing the indescribably weird packaging. A Weds. test identified the pill I sent in as fake, but with Bromazolam as the only adulterant to still provide an active ingredient.

Despite my fondness for all BZD's, whether used in medicine or sold as an RC, I still had no choice but to bin them. I would not object to using a bromazolam product if RC bzds were still available to me, but regardless of the fact that I had 29 pills left of similar fashion they were of no use without knowing the amount of bromazolam in them. They could have been spiked with Seconal or some other gold dust drug but the situation would have been the same.

Thanks for reading - my apologies if its all gibberish - I am under a rare situation as a novice again, having tried a new stimulant for the first time today.
 
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