Drugs for healing trauma

[Anonymous Dissident]

Allylescaline has helped me immensely in dealing with childhood trauma and the resulting ptsd.

 

[Chris Timothy]

I once reached a quite deep emotional state on DPH, of all things. Makes you wonder whether hitting yourself in the face with a hammer can have therapeutic benefits as well. It's just massively confusing to have a flash of insight on deliriants, of course the obvious conclusion is that it must have been delirious wank from hell again.

Though it returned in more sensible states as well, from other angles. As a serotonergic downer it must have functioned as shitty MDMA with the downer aspect leading to a hypnotic state of sorts, for once.

Maybe there are downer serotonergics that don't eat brain? It must be conducive for solo use to have MDMA without the hopping around talking crap thing..

 

[sin_is_synthetic]

MDMA has helped me in the past overcome some issues that were causing a long lasting depression.

I personally find that all the main psychedelics have the potential if in the right hands and background. Particularly pairing psychs with a meditation practice as well as rudimentary knowledge of psychology (good people worth checking out RD Laing, Erich Fromme, Daniel Goleman, and Alan Watts work "Psychotherapy East and West")

 

[Kaleida]

Thank you for the link to that very interesting study, Kaleida. As a classical musician, I was pleased to learn that much of the music that these researchers selected for their study was such, and contemporary at that. Some of the most cathartic experiences that I've had while under the influence of a psychedelic have been while intensely focused on pieces like Ligeti's "San Francisco Polyphony" and Ives' "Symphony No. 4". IMO, that's the best type of music to listen to while tripping, and it doesn't have to be contemporary. Last year, Bruckner's "Symphony No. 9", a piece that I've known and loved since the mid-80's, left me in a profound state of awe that I can't describe, for example. I can say the same for a lot of older music, particularly medieval and renaissance. Granted, the researchers of this paper pointedly avoided works with religious connotations, but give me a Mass by Dufay while on 35mg of 4-HO-MiPT and I'll probably have a revelation or two. Great stuff. Thanks again for the link.

I'm happy to share, and glad you liked it so much. I wholeheatedly agree that classical music is wonderful, in general but especially on psychedelics. I grew up with parents who were hippies listening to the traditional hippie music and friends who were listening to techno, but nonetheless was always still drawn more to stuff that had classical elements like ELO for the former ("Tightrope" is a particular favorite) and while I would still say my musical preferences are all over the place and I usually kind of just go with the flow these days, that classical influence is definitely still there. It's hard (impossible) to match that big sound and it's really still the kind of quality I look for in really any type of music I listen to whether it's a directly classical style or not.

Thanks for sharing too.

I once reached a quite deep emotional state on DPH, of all things. Makes you wonder whether hitting yourself in the face with a hammer can have therapeutic benefits as well. It's just massively confusing to have a flash of insight on deliriants, of course the obvious conclusion is that it must have been delirious wank from hell again.

Though it returned in more sensible states as well, from other angles. As a serotonergic downer it must have functioned as shitty MDMA with the downer aspect leading to a hypnotic state of sorts, for once.

Maybe there are downer serotonergics that don't eat brain? It must be conducive for solo use to have MDMA without the hopping around talking crap thing..

For what it's worth, there is actually quite a lot of evidence that scopolamine has rapid antidepressant effects similarly to and functionally overlapping with ketamine, and based on that and more recent (though unsurprising) research probably also psychedelics.

I have a pretty good amount of diphenhydramine experience and always found it to have underappreciated psychedelic-like qualities, personally. I've come to kind of suspect that a lot of the slowness and amnesia and all that that it causes is largely unrelated to most of its hallucinogenic effects which I feel could have turned out a bit more reliably and interesting rewarding if not for that along with its other problems like the physiological side effects.

Particularly pairing psychs with a meditation practice as well as rudimentary knowledge of psychology.

I would very much agree with this sentiment as well, particularly the latter part (though the former is nice too). It seems far easier to achieve something with if you actually go out of your way to understand that kind of stuff you're working with in this case, even if all you can really do is gather the perspectives of those who have tried to conquer these things before you.

 

[Chris Timothy]

For what it's worth, there is actually quite a lot of evidence that scopolamine has rapid antidepressant effects similarly to and functionally overlapping with ketamine, and based on that and more recent (though unsurprising) research probably also psychedelics.

I have a pretty good amount of diphenhydramine experience and always found it to have underappreciated psychedelic-like qualities, personally. I've come to kind of suspect that a lot of the slowness and amnesia and all that that it causes is largely unrelated to most of its hallucinogenic effects which I feel could have turned out a bit more reliably and interesting rewarding if not for that along with its other problems like the physiological side effects.

Yep, bumped into such scopolamine studies when reading up on ketamine research.

I don't think any M1-mediated GABAergic interneuron antagonism is relevant when there's much stronger H1 inverse agonism, as with DPH. It's an insanely depressing substance to partake in, couldn't be further apart from ketamine if you ask me. And I really don't think you can call it underappreciated, especially in places where the theme is harm reduction!

Iirc Thomas Ray's model shows how memory and delirium apparitions are both functions of the histaminergic mental organ. It's not psychedelic despite side-effects, it's a whole different ballgame altogether. I think there's a good reason for drawing a line between psychedelics (or psychoplastogens in general) and deliriants, as blurry as scopolamine perhaps renders it.

 

[Kaleida]

Do you have a scientific source to support that claim about its H1 activities making it M1 activities irrelevant?

Appreciating the substance's effects for the sake of understanding more about how the brain works doesn't go against harm reduction, it actually supports it, and I never said deliriants are psychedelic or that there is no line drawn between them, simply that diphenhydramine has underappreciated "psychedelic-like" qualities, which I absolutely stand by.

All evidence and research I've seen points overwhelmingly to that the delirium is related to acetylcholine, not histamine.

And are you aware that scopolamine is also considered a psychoplastogen?

 

[Chris Timothy]

Yes I am aware. That why I said it might blur the line.

DPH's Ki values are on wikipedia, if you really need to verify the obvious.

Calling it underappreciated calls people to go appreciate it, arguably. Please don't take that stance and make me regret bringing it up.

 

[Kaleida]

That doesn't make any sense, it doesn't blur the line if it is one.

Its pharmacology on Wikipedia suggests that both its antihistamine and anticholinergic activity are relevant to recreational dosages, which I already knew without looking anyway.

I am calling people to appreciate it and I'll take whatever stance I want, thanks.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

A strong dose of acid with a good dose of mdma for the candy flip can really help you go deep and confront your past trauma but it will be hard scary and a pretty dark trip

 

[Foreigner]

An update.

I acquired some high quality lion's mane and it didn't agree with me. It made me really wired and edgy for some reason, and it also upset my digestion. It seems that lion's mane has immune stimulating properties which is something I need to avoid because I have auto-immune. I did notice bowel upset from just a single dose. So unfortunately I need to abandon that aspect.

I'm going to be trying magic mushrooms soon. What concerns me is that they they act on 5HT which has serotonergic functions, and I know from therapeutic experiments that my dopamine/serotonin axis tilts too far to the serotonin side, which is why I have so many gut disorders. I'm concerned that mushrooms might tip the balance even more in that direction.

A solution to this could be micro-dosing. I'm just not sure what the therapeutic benefits are of micro-dosing vs. "breakthrough" trips. Can anyone speak to that?

The serotonin connection is why I can't do LSD anymore. It causes too much 5HT agonization and my bowels go into a tailspin. If LSD didn't last for 8 hours I might consider it. I also thought that maybe taking L-tyrosine just before a trip could help by supporting dopamine, but it might not matter. My neurology gets tired easily these days which is why I'm being so cautious even with something like mushrooms.

MDMA is a no-no for me. I did it so much in my 20's that I permanently altered myself in chaotic ways. Nothing destabilizes my health like MDMA. I can't even do it in a therapeutic context because I could have a nervous breakdown in the aftermath. I did really love candy flipping back in the day though

 

[Chris Timothy]

I have no experience with magic mushroom microdosing either. Are you unable to partake in LSD in the microdosing format as well? Because although shrooms are less serotonergically promiscuous than acid, they still noticeably stir up the gut.

It's a funny thing, the gut. In a way it's our connection to the distant past, before there was oxygen on Earth. Early life was anaerobic, and with the advent of plants and their 'oxygen pollution' they've had to flee inside of other organisms to find the early, harsh, acidic conditions of the Archean era. This might help explain the weird influence the gut biome has on the total democracy of the body and its behaviour, they're literally our most ancient predecessors. Maybe there's more to wisdom from the gut, in that sense?

But if such serotonergic effect is unwanted, then that probably excludes the whole category of psychedelics from the psychoplastogens we're looking at. It's pretty much all 5HT-2A action, they all will bind to gut tissue.

If that's the obstacle, then we're back at the dissociatives. But dissociation comes in mushroom form too. When I talk to plant spirit people, I present the amanita muscaria as the natural anchor of the dissociative experience, perhaps providing context and clearance to the unnatural PCP-type anaesthetics. And the fly agaric does something more than those. It's as if it tickles and evolves the whole neural system, spine included. Frankly it's up there with my best psychonautic experiences ever. Imagine if ketamine had a plant-spirit, bodily, enlarging feel to it.

The only reason I don't partake more often in the fly agaric experience is that I don't have a chemistry set, and have to metabolize the active constituent myself. I still don't have a sure-fire technique to make urophagia psychologically agreeable. I was working on a method of sedating taste buds with buccal ephenidine for fifteen minutes or so before downing the processed harvest. But now that substance has been disappearing from the market I'm back to square one. There must be way to proceed there without being an absolute filth wizard about it..

 

[Mycophile]

4 aco dmt really helped me. My mother died when I was ten my dad when I was 24. All 4 of my grandparents by the time I was 27. I'm 29 now. But when I was 28 I had several intense experiences with psilacetin. Peak transcendent type experiences.
It helped me work through so much. And let go of so much anger and sadness.

I feel healed now. I used to be depressed and now I totally love every second of my life. I cherish existence. I take a now dose 4 aco dmt/psilocybin/ 4 ho met or a lysergamide like 1A LSD as an anti depressant treatment. It works for me very well.

I hope you feel better. I would say perhaps a low dose of mushroom's if u can find them. Like 1 and a half to 2 grams of cubensis. If u can't locate them I'd say look into 4 aco dmt which is legal in most places and easily found

I'm extremely sorry to hear what you went through, but glad you were able to feel considerably better from your experiences.

I haven't been through anything like what you have but I've been considering trying 4-ACO DMT for my own FAR less serious problems, but I'm on Lexapro which is an SSRI, and almost always have Klonopin in my system as well which is a benzo.

May I ask, did you have any anti-depressants or benzos in your system during any of your experiences with 4-ACO DMT?

If so, did the 4-ACO DMT still work?

If not, do you think it might have still worked if you'd had any of those drugs in your system?

I'm probably switching my medications up soon, but some have said not to even waste my time with 4-ACO DMT if I'm going to be on drugs that lesson the experience so much.

That being said, I've still had good experiences on shrooms while on SSRIs, and one while on an SSRi and a benzo.

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

Also, since I may switch anti-depressants, and it's POSSIBLE I MIGHT switch from Lexapro to Wellbutrin, does anyone know if Wellubutrin is less likely to interfere with psychedelics in general than an SSRI like Lexapro or Prozac, and not be too dangerous to combine with tryptamines or lysergamides in particular?

Thanks.

 

[Chris Timothy]

Wellbutrin doesn't touch serotonin that much, so there's that. But I wouldn't like to have increased epilepsy risk while tripping..

But pharms work through stabilizing the system, while psychedelics works through disrupting the system. The whole premise of combining there is problematic at the very outset.

 

[yepyepwoah]

Frankly it's up there with my best psychonautic experiences ever. Imagine if ketamine had a plant-spirit, bodily, enlarging feel to it.

The only reason I don't partake more often in the fly agaric experience is that I don't have a chemistry set, and have to metabolize the active constituent myself. I still don't have a sure-fire technique to make urophagia psychologically agreeable. I was working on a method of sedating taste buds with buccal ephenidine for fifteen minutes or so before downing the processed harvest. But now that substance has been disappearing from the market I'm back to square one. There must be way to proceed there without being an absolute filth wizard about it..

That sounds pretty cool. I have been reading about Amanita the past few days. This and another report stating "the mental reward of absolute, utter, inner silence, like a microscope examining a slide, or a megaphone handed to your little inner voices." have got me interested in trying them.

How do you prepare them? I haven't read too much, but it seems people either eat them, bake in microwave, or make a tea.

What type of dose do you usually take? Do you eat them, then continue drinking your urine to up the dose? Use saved urine from previous times? I read "processed harvest" and it is a bit ambiguos. I just think about feeding them to Reindeer and drinking their urin

I know drinking your own piss isn't neccessary, but I am not opposed to it. I've tried it before and it's not really bad. Kinda like cheerios and whatever else you have been consuming. Lots of interesting stuff about urine therapy. Lots of stuff about Indian yogis doing it.

 

[Mycophile]

Wellbutrin doesn't touch serotonin that much, so there's that. But I wouldn't like to have increased epilepsy risk while tripping..

But pharms work through stabilizing the system, while psychedelics works through disrupting the system. The whole premise of combining there is problematic at the very outset.

Do you mean "seizure" risk?

You can't just "get epilepsy" i don't think...

So Wellbutrin increases seizure risk?

And while I get what you are saying, 1) I kind of sort of have to be on an anti-depressant most likely whether I want to or not

2) I've still had good trips on shrooms and LSD while on anti-depressants and I'm not going to just not use psychedelics which at worst I might like and at best might help me because I am on an anti-depressant unless it is ACTUALLY DANGEROUS to do so, and so far using shrooms and LSD on SSRIs has not been dangerous, though I know my trips have been diminshed in strength because of it.

I'd rather psychedelics just BE MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS...but my family has a fair amount of control over the decisions I make financially speaking and psychedelic therapy ain't easy to come by unless you want to just do it yourself, and I don't feel safe doing that at the moment if it means getting off my Lexparo and NOT getting on some other type of anti-depressant.

 

[Mycophile]

So basically, does everyone seem to think if I want to heal through the use of psychedelics I have to 100% get off all anti-depressants?

Cause I don't feel safe doing that, and yet I would like to use psychedelics and dissaciociatives as tools against my depression and anxiety.

I just don't feel safe buying them on the dark web and getting off my anti-depressant, going through Lexapro WD and all that...sounds like a bad idea...

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Shrooms are wonderful for healing but the stomach pains can be painful so id suggest making into tea and straining out the solids. The more times you do shrooms the more the body gets use to them and the nasuesa is reduced for trips. A breakthrough trip brings you into contact with infinite divine love healing you on so many levels. I believe a breakthrough trip should be achieved first then looking into microdosing to extend those effects for years to come. In 4 shroom trips it completely cured my major depression i had faced for 15 years. Natures gift are truly wonderful before shrooms i would ponder the day i would be able to live without depression they are a saving life-raft in this cold world.

 

[Chris Timothy]

Do you mean "seizure" risk?

You can't just "get epilepsy" i don't think...

So Wellbutrin increases seizure risk?

And while I get what you are saying, 1) I kind of sort of have to be on an anti-depressant most likely whether I want to or not

2) I've still had good trips on shrooms and LSD while on anti-depressants and I'm not going to just not use psychedelics which at worst I might like and at best might help me because I am on an anti-depressant unless it is ACTUALLY DANGEROUS to do so, and so far using shrooms and LSD on SSRIs has not been dangerous, though I know my trips have been diminshed in strength because of it.

I'd rather psychedelics just BE MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS...but my family has a fair amount of control over the decisions I make financially speaking and psychedelic therapy ain't easy to come by unless you want to just do it yourself, and I don't feel safe doing that at the moment if it means getting off my Lexparo and NOT getting on some other type of anti-depressant.

It's interchangeable really. Seizures are defined as particulates of epilepsy, epilepsy is defined as a tendency to seizures. It's basically neuronal short-circuit, and the group of people prone to neuronal short-circuit. Any further appearance of concreteness is show. You obviously don't want any increased risk in that direction, but it's not a preposterous risk to take either if that just happens to be the situation you're in. You're obviously not invested in making the AD thing work, and so if you can get away with even shitty trips then you will gladly do so. I can't blame you.

People on erowid seem to survive combos with wellbutrin. Weed seems worse than shrooms or acid. So shit's whack basically.

The usual rules apply for when you're on your own. Introduce new things one at a time, and take no experience prior to the wellbutrin for granted. Concerning dose, err on the side of caution, and work your way up from there.

Also consider that microdosings might be the most sensible thing to explore in your situation.

 

[Chris Timothy]

That sounds pretty cool. I have been reading about Amanita the past few days. This and another report stating "the mental reward of absolute, utter, inner silence, like a microscope examining a slide, or a megaphone handed to your little inner voices." have got me interested in trying them.

How do you prepare them? I haven't read too much, but it seems people either eat them, bake in microwave, or make a tea.

What type of dose do you usually take? Do you eat them, then continue drinking your urine to up the dose? Use saved urine from previous times? I read "processed harvest" and it is a bit ambiguos. I just think about feeding them to Reindeer and drinking their urin

I know drinking your own piss isn't neccessary, but I am not opposed to it. I've tried it before and it's not really bad. Kinda like cheerios and whatever else you have been consuming. Lots of interesting stuff about urine therapy. Lots of stuff about Indian yogis doing it.

I dry them with a fan overnight. Then you need to convert the ibotanic acid into muscimol through heating, at 110°C iirc. Though you really need a liver to duly process it. Though the oven helps a lot too.

You can save the urine I suppose. I find any cooling just makes it worse, at body temperature it at least feels a bit more part of you. Under the shower it kinda blends in with the environment, which helps too.

You can have some hints of the effects without urophagia, but you're really coming nowhere near the potential without it. You'd be getting delirious on the ibotanic acid instead of being transformed in the muscimol space. For the purposes of getting to the crux of the matter, I would call it necessary. Even potentiating with weed and other dissociatives is called for, though it gets complicated at that point since you don't typically want to ingest any dissociative metabolites.

Dosage is tricky because it varies so much from mushroom to mushroom. You take your harvest, grind it to a uniform mix, and you start exploring the potency of the mix. It takes about 12 caps to die from the fly agaric, so you should be safe diving in however you want.

Tea is fine.