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Drug tests for People trying to get the dole

I can see that the people who know about these things think that the people who take drugs are either unemployable, or unemployed because they take drugs. I have been on the dole at a few times throughout my life, and fuck, i was glad it was there for me. It made no difference to my drug consumption, after all, we focus on priorities.
However, there are people that grow or deal whilst on the dole. These people should not be getting the dole if they are making a lifestyle choice to risk the wrath of law to turn a profit.
That being said, if you are making a lifestyle by illegal means, and you hide yor alternative income, its an easy way to describe your income
 
nin015 said:
My argument is that I agree with the policy in 'simple theory" that dole money shouldn't be used for illegal drugs. If there was a cheap way in stopping that illegal spend then I would be all for it. Not because I'm against drug use but I'm against tax payers money being used for something that it isn't intended to be spent on
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aha!
here's a compromise that will work for all of us then - legalise all drugs and accept that humans have a tendency (one way or another) to enjoy altering their consciousness. the problem i have with both excessively paternal welfare schemes and the war on drugs is that the 'authorities' (lawmakers, law enforcement, medical profession etc) treat the population like children who don't know any better.

while this is arguably true in a country like australia, there's no dignity in it. let people stand on their own two feet and watch them support themselves eventually.
liberalising drug laws in countries like portugal has shown that drug use does not increase considerably in the absence of punitive measures against possession etc.
then - in the absence of laws banning drug use, sale or manufacture, presence of legitimate drug manufacture (as opposed to clandestine labs) quality control comes into effect - no more PMA death pills or piperazines - and how great would it be to choose exactly how many mikes of LSD you are dosing on any given occasion.
all us dodgy scummy druggy dope fiends and lawyers and politicians and businessmen could be contributing tax in the form of a % of the price of their drug of choice being taxed (somewhat like alcohol and cigarettes - but if there were more drugs to tax, the tax rate would not need to be so ridiculously high).
there are lots of currently-illegal drugs that would be far less of a burden on the health system than alcohol and cigarettes - another thing yours and my tax dollars contribute to in this society we both inhabit.
come to think of it, if you hate paying tax, i assume you don't ever buy alcohol or tobacco? i don't like either of them, so it doesn't hit my finances - but fuck, if you want to avoid paying tax, don't buy those shitty drugs.
get some illegals. profits go to outlaws. how cool is that? :)
 
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bunnymunro said:
However, there are people that grow or deal whilst on the dole. These people should not be getting the dole if they are making a lifestyle choice to risk the wrath of law to turn a profit.
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Why not?

spacejunk said:
liberalising drug laws in countries like portugal has shown that drug use does not increase considerably in the absence of punitive measures against possession etc. quality control comes into effect - no more PMA death pills or piperazines - and how great would it be to choose exactly how many mikes of LSD you are dosing on any given occasion.
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Has quality control actually come into effect in Portugal? I don't actually know, but I would've thought that that wouldn't be so marked when it's only personal use that has been decriminalised, and producing or trafficking drugs is still illegal.
 
(sorry - i reread that and edited it before i saw your post footsy). you're right.
no, the ridiculous thing about the current models of liberalisation is that trafficking/manufacture is still illegal - an absurd scenario.
i agree with howard marks - until you fully legalise and accept drugs, 'criminals', smugglers and unscrupulous greedy fucks will take full advantage, thus legalising personal use only increases the power of drug syndicates and organised crime. often very ruthless, soulless characters (unlike the charming mr nice)
i'm talking best-case pragmatic scenarios here :)
 
because they are not paying tax.... and taxpayers are supporting them. They are the bludgers. I believe that if you are earning money, legally or not, you should pay tax. It would be good if when you filled out a tax return , there was an option where you could "prefer not to say" under the occupation title. That way, a person,be it dealer, hooker or whatever, could quietly go on doing their business, declare theirincome, and be at peace when they see the ambos go by their window , or watch the road fixers fix their road
 
^ there are still goods and services taxes and all kinds of duty taxes and so fourth. income tax? maybe not - i can't remember if you have to pay (much? any?) tax with the income you earn on the dole (i was stoned off my pickle at the time). but i'm pretty sure prostitutes pay tax like any other profession? not street workers, but those employed in brothels?
you're assuming that all drug dealers make enough profit to live off - pay the rent on time, buy food and the goods they trade in as well....there are lots of different types of dealers. sometimes they have gear/money, sometimes they don't. not all dealers are handling massive commercial quantities, not all are high-rollers.
of course, there are the other kinds of dealers that earn millions of dollars a year and still feed from the public trough, but i think these people often become quite conspicuous to law enforcement when they have flashy lifestyles, expensive cars and luxury homes but claim unemployment benefits. unexplained income...which is what you are suggesting should be an option?
i'm confused!
 
[snip]
Bunny, although I'm biased because I hate the government, you know everything is taxed, right?
There's this thing called the Goods and Services Tax, otherwise known as GST, which is applied to fucking everything.
10% of all the money you spend goes to the government.
SJ already covered this though, [snip]
 
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Ok death, and Sj, good points by both of you. as well as paying GST for everything i buy, (except illicits) I pay between 33 and 45% of my income to keep the country rolling.
I know that a being a good dealer is a full on job, and there are overheads that cannot even be brought to the budget sheet.
The point that i am making, (if I did points) is that all the money that would be earned as income, is going to that black market, which does not go back into the real world
[snip]
 
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@DeathDomocun the more of your posts i read, the clearer it becomes that you have issues with females.
go see a counsellor or something man.
 
bunnymunro said:
The point that i am making, (if I did points) is that all the money that would be earned as income, is going to that black market, which does not go back into the real world
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it goes into the economy, just not in conventional ways. i've heard estimates that the illicit drug trade is one of the most lucrative businesses on the planet - bigger than the oil industry* and a lot of other massive businesses. a lot of the money is laundered, and one way or another is redistributed. a lot of it goes into paying for shady dealings like arming various groups or....i dunno, making shit hollywood movies or something.
but in an australian context, i would bet that quite a lot of that profit is spent on goods and services that help prop up the australian economy. a lot of this is speculation though, because the illicit drug industry is hardly open with their bookkeeping or other activities.
suffice to say, it is stupidly profitable and that money has to be laundered or squandered somehow.


*here's a quickly sourced link reference for that claim: http://books.google.com.au/books?id...epage&q=drug industry bigger than oil&f=false
 
Dunno, it confuddles me regularly... how many millions each weekend are spent on illicit substances. yea sure enough, some of it get back into the licit economy, , but craploads of it goes to black market.
 
yeah. i'm in favour of people taking what pleases them, so i have no problem with it.
when it funds really fucked up things like CIA-backed coups or has vulnerable people risking their lives to smuggle drugs internally for the ringleaders to make a killing, or any number of sociopolitical problems in south and central america due to the drug trade, then i can see where the drug black market is a terrible thing.
but some nice clean LSD from some mysterious lab somewhere on the planet that has probably not exploited or killed anyone on its way to you? i'm all for that. local pot growers? champions, IMO. people that buy in bulk and sell to select friends? the best.
these are just a part of the diverse, fascinating world we live in.
in regards to the dark, ugly side; i wish it didn't have to be that way, but prohibition creates it.
it's a fucked up system with no logical justification. we should all subvert it by any means necessary.
(apologies to malcolm x)
 
spacejunk said:
the problem i have with both excessively paternal welfare schemes and the war on drugs is that the 'authorities' (lawmakers, law enforcement, medical profession etc) treat the population like children who don't know any better.
Click to expand...

This sums up everything I believe in, in a nutshell. Great post
 
spacejunk said:
yeah. i'm in favour of people taking what pleases them, so i have no problem with it.
when it funds really fucked up things like CIA-backed coups or has vulnerable people risking their lives to smuggle drugs internally for the ringleaders to make a killing, or any number of sociopolitical problems in south and central america due to the drug trade, then i can see where the drug black market is a terrible thing.
but some nice clean LSD from some mysterious lab somewhere on the planet that has probably not exploited or killed anyone on its way to you? i'm all for that. local pot growers? champions, IMO. people that buy in bulk and sell to select friends? the best.
these are just a part of the diverse, fascinating world we live in.
in regards to the dark, ugly side; i wish it didn't have to be that way, but prohibition creates it.
it's a fucked up system with no logical justification. we should all subvert it by any means necessary.
(apologies to malcolm x)
Click to expand...

fully concurr but wouldnt have expressed it as well
 
Space junk, it's cute that you feel you have such insight =D
Just because I dislike the government, it doesn't mean I'm opposed to any governing entity.
You're so quick to jump to conclusions because you're content with the way things are.
That's cool, but just because I'm not it doesn't mean you should fear my unknown opinion.
I mean then again I'm not really bothered by anything that happens in ADD so post what you'd like :)
 
who's jumping to conclusions? who's fearful?
i like how you end a lot of your posts with apathetic 'i don't care about this anyway' statements. very endearing. i will post what i like, thanks for the permission.

as for jumping to conclusions - i'm happy with the way things are???
did you read my rants above?
have you read my continual over-the-top rants throughout this thread? being passionate about politics is probably the opposite of being "content with the way things are". i'm really fucking dissatisfied with the way things are. this country is fucked; not because of the government but because of the selfish xenophobic electorate they have to appeal to to remain in office.
as for anarcho socialist psychedelic utopias, i say bring it on.

i "think i have insight" because i give a fuck. if i feel passionately about something i will give you the most reasoned, convincing argument possible as to why i think that. you're welcome to disagree, but you're just trying to be patronising which doesn't make for very interesting conversation.
i'd say you're scared of actually engaging in any debate of substance on this. that's cool. i like being cute ;)
 
I'm glad you enjoy the end of my posts. My lack of engaging in 'debate' or 'genuine discussion' originates from disinterest and apathy and laziness and all that good shit, not fear. You're welcome to think otherwise, counsellor.
I am afraid though, that your most convincing isn't good convincing me of anything other than to make yet another futile and pointless post, to a pointless post.
Lift the game, this is ridiculous.
Should our expectation of mods be set at such a level? ;)
 
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