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Drug tests for People trying to get the dole

Wow! Didn't need any bait

hehe welcome to bl and congratulations on becoming a professional, i can tell how much it means to you... 8o

i bet you have been waiting ages to broadcast that you are a professional haha enjoy it dude

"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."

"Because people have no thoughts to deal in, they deal cards, and try and win one another's money. Idiots!" Schopenhauer
 
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That human life must be a kind of mistake is sufficiently clear from the fact that man is a compound of needs, which are difficult to satisfy; moreover, if they are satisfied, all he is granted is a state of painlessness, in which he can only give himself up to boredom. This is a precise proof that existence in itself has no value, since boredom is merely the feeling of the emptiness of life. If, for instance, life, the longing for which constitutes our very being, had in itself any positive and real value, boredom could not exist; mere existence in itself would supply us with everything, and therefore satisfy us. But our existence would not be a joyous thing unless we were striving after something; distance and obstacles to be overcome then represent our aim as something that would satisfy us — an illusion which vanishes when our aim has been attained; or when we are engaged in something that is of a purely intellectual nature, when, in reality, we have retired from the world, so that we may observe it from the outside, like spectators at a theatre. Even sensual pleasure itself is nothing but a continual striving, which ceases directly its aim is attained. As soon as we are not engaged in one of these two ways, but thrown back on existence itself, we are convinced of the emptiness and worthlessness of it; and this it is we call boredom. That innate and ineradicable craving for what is out of the common proves how glad we are to have the natural and tedious course of things interrupted. Even the pomp and splendour of the rich in their stately castles is at bottom nothing but a futile attempt to escape the very essence of existence, misery.
 
Wow again... I don't know where you guys got the picture I'm against welfare but anyway.

Why is it such a bad thing that i said I'm a professional?

It's a shame you guys become so personal only because i have a different view to yours... Sounds like Alan Jones alright.
 
^ you made the point that social welfare is a "waste" of taxpayer's dollars. i fundamentally disagree with you.

Wow again... I don't know where you guys got the picture I'm against welfare but anyway.

I don't care if it's 0.00001% of our tax dollars it's still a waste and that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop the waste

the people that advocate making things harder for people on welfare usually come from a position of privilege, prejudice or lack empathy for other human beings.
you're entitled to your opinion, but i don't agree with it. this is a discussion board. you're not getting flamed, you're getting calmly rebutted. if you can't handle that, stop posting obnoxious right wing crap. or do you have a persecution complex?

we're not like alan jones because we don't get paid to push an agenda. we're not abusive either, and sexism and insults are not welcome here - so no, nothing like mr jones.

if you're so worried about tax wastage, have a look at the baby bonus, the amount of funding that goes to elite private schools, or the pointless, endless, illegal wars australia has jumped into in recent times.

if social welfare is a waste, perhaps you could enlighten us on what is worthwhile government spending?
the government using public funds for social welfare is not a waste. that's just offensive.
 
^ you made the point that social welfare is a "waste" of taxpayer's dollars. i fundamentally disagree with you.

the people that advocate making things harder for people on welfare usually come from a position of privilege, prejudice or lack empathy for other human beings.
you're entitled to your opinion, but i don't agree with it. this is a discussion board. you're not getting flamed, you're getting calmly rebutted. if you can't handle that, stop posting obnoxious right wing crap. or do you have a persecution complex?

we're not like alan jones because we don't get paid to push an agenda. we're not abusive either, and sexism and insults are not welcome here - so no, nothing like mr jones.

if you're so worried about tax wastage, have a look at the baby bonus, the amount of funding that goes to elite private schools, or the pointless, endless, illegal wars australia has jumped into in recent times.

if social welfare is a waste, perhaps you could enlighten us on what is worthwhile government spending?
the government using public funds for social welfare is not a waste. that's just offensive.


I never said I was against welfare I said I was against welfare being used to purchase drugs and I don't care if it's 0.0000001% of tax payers money it's still a waste that could be spent elsewhere.

I also said earlier that there are more wasteful uses of tax payer money out there but we are only talking of one topic here and I don't care what it is if it's wasteful then it should be stopped (if possible).

If being called ignorant, stupid and having personal digs at me because I said I was a professional are calm rebuttal then I'm glad it was only calm rebuttal (don't know how personal digs are rebuttal though).

Also I thought everyone knew public funds weren't for drug use since it's against the law but I guess that's because I'm stupid so please tell me what I don't know about it.
 
read the thread. i've said what i think at length. if you want to suggest nanny-state food stamps for people who can't pass a drug test, you're not going to get many bluelighters on side.
if you don't like people doing drugs, i don't think they or i or anyone here cares. people alter their consciousness - it's a normal human behaviour. the illegality of certain drugs is irrelevant in this debate.

Also I thought everyone knew public funds weren't for drug use since it's against the law but I guess that's because I'm stupid so please tell me what I don't know about it.
ever heard of the PBS? <3
 
I didn't know the PBS provided drugs for people wanting to alter their consciousness.... if so where to I sign up?

Honestly read my first post I said I hate the war on drugs (It seems you guys have only read one or two of my posts and got the complete wrong idea of what I was posting about).

I also asked what does the government propose to do if someone does test positive but no one has answered my question?
 
I didn't know the PBS provided drugs for people wanting to alter their consciousness.... if so where to I sign up?
talk to your GP.


the answer to your question is that the tests shouldn't take place in the first place.
drug tests are expensive. a waste of taxpayers' money ;)
 
That human life must be a kind of mistake is sufficiently clear from the fact that man is a compound of needs, which are difficult to satisfy; moreover, if they are satisfied, all he is granted is a state of painlessness, in which he can only give himself up to boredom. This is a precise proof that existence in itself has no value, since boredom is merely the feeling of the emptiness of life. If, for instance, life, the longing for which constitutes our very being, had in itself any positive and real value, boredom could not exist; mere existence in itself would supply us with everything, and therefore satisfy us. But our existence would not be a joyous thing unless we were striving after something; distance and obstacles to be overcome then represent our aim as something that would satisfy us — an illusion which vanishes when our aim has been attained; or when we are engaged in something that is of a purely intellectual nature, when, in reality, we have retired from the world, so that we may observe it from the outside, like spectators at a theatre. Even sensual pleasure itself is nothing but a continual striving, which ceases directly its aim is attained. As soon as we are not engaged in one of these two ways, but thrown back on existence itself, we are convinced of the emptiness and worthlessness of it; and this it is we call boredom. That innate and ineradicable craving for what is out of the common proves how glad we are to have the natural and tedious course of things interrupted. Even the pomp and splendour of the rich in their stately castles is at bottom nothing but a futile attempt to escape the very essence of existence, misery.

cooee fucking give it too em
 
Why is everyone hating on nin so much?

It's good to have some balance on this thread, we gain nothing if we just ridicule people for their beliefs and it shows an arrogance similar to those we try to reason with.
This is a discussion board, and I see no point to going to personal attacks. I asked an honest question and got an honest answer. Do you guys really think that attacking someone is going to change their beliefs? Because I believe with enough evidence and disucssion you can change someones mind. But the way you guys are going about it ain't gonna change shit.

I agree that it's not our money, it's taxpayers money to go to whatever area of society needs help. But drug abusers need more help then alot of society, and cutting off there welfare isn't going to help, you could argue that cutting off their payments will stop them being able to afford drugs. Which it may for some but I think unlikely for most. But I'm more concerned for casual drug users who are trying legitimately to get a job or find a course, not paying them seperates them from society more then I think is at all neccessary. I don't wanna repeat myself, but if people could stick to the topic and reframe from personal attacks from here on out I would appreciate it.
 
Removed a bunch of off-topic posts. Please don't derail the thread with a personal argument. Nobody cares how long either of you has studied for ;)
 
Not worth going into it. His views are his, yours are yours, mine are mine, we are all different.

Regarding what happens if someone fails the tests, idk, I dont think its been mentioned yet as its not policy or anything yet afaik. In New Zealand they mention this -

"Where people fail a drug test or refuse to apply for a drug-tested job, they must agree to stop using drugs or their benefit will be cut by 50 per cent. They will be given 30 days to allow any drugs they have taken to leave their system.

"Where they fail a test or refuse a second time, they will have their benefit suspended until they agree that they will provide a 'clean' drug test within 30 days. If they do not do this their benefit will be cancelled.

from -
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...eneficiaries-set-to-come-into-force-from-July
 
no hate here. just something i'm passionate about.
some people love shitting on poor people, on drug users, on those they feel superior to. some politicians make a career of it.

i've known some really talented people who have been long term unemployed then gone on to be very productive members of the community. be they writers, artists, academics, or people with other fulfilling lives, a lot of people need the support of welfare at some stage of their life.
and a lot of them also take drugs.
without the welfare support to get to the point where they can achieve what they want to, they could easily have fallen into a life of crime, of destructive behaviour or of settling for mediocrity.

personally, i take drugs every day. i work full time, have a great job and i'm good at what i do.
being an addict doesn't make me less productive in the workplace - it really has nothing to do with it. i don't nod off at my desk, have wild mood swings or shoot up in the toilet. i have never missed work because of drugs, lost a job because of my drug use, never let interfere with my professionalism. besides people i know well and trust, nobody would suspect that i am always high.
i don't think it is any of their business.

if it became a problem - if i made mistakes or stopped showing up, stole money or came in experiencing withdrawals or whatever - then sure, it becomes the employer's concern.
i think workplace drug testing people is really discriminatory and one of the worst sides of the "war on drugs". it's brutal because it ruins lives and careers that otherwise would be completely functional.

but drug testing people to determine their eligibility for welfare? to me this is madness.

drug use is often a symptom of mental illness or problems in people's lives. yes, it can cause these things too, but it is presumptuous to say that all drug use is hedonistic, reckless, wrong.
it's a bad enough idea to punish people legally for using certain drugs - but to deny them the safety net that helps keep people from being destitute?
it's like expelling kids from school for taking drugs - it's hardly going to prevent future use!
my opinion has been spouted enough in this thread, but i just can't understand why people would take the bait politicians are throwing out with this one.
i live in a part of the inner city and see homeless people every day. without welfare benefits to help unemployed people pay the rent or supplement underemployed people's incomes, i am always reminded that that could be me or many of my friends lined up for soup in the park. we don't all have family or money to fall back on.

i don't mean to be hostile or sarcastic, but i see a lot of money wasted on a lot of horrendous bullshit in this country.
helping vulnerable people survive through their poverty is not one of them.

we might be spared mass unemployment at the moment, but i would be very surprised if that lasted forever. we might have been trained by the propaganda machine to accept things like mandatory drug testing, but to me the idea that you'd have to pass a drug test to get a piddly amount of money to help you survive if things get tough is just horrific. not the sort of society i would want to live in.

the community is full of drug users - many of them are discreet and functioning, some are not. i'm sick of being stigmatised because i don't drink shitty alcohol and prefer other poisons. i've not received any government benefits for over 5 years, but i always made sure i went to centrelink as stoned as possible, because it was always such an undignified experience.

it appears to be very popular nowadays for people to be concerned about the government's financial management.
seems like a distraction from the main game to me, we hear endless rhetoric about "the deficit" or "the surplus" but i doubt that many people even understand what these things mean.
it's just a meaningless sideshow in the ridiculous circus of modern 'democracy', but when it starts having detrimental effects on people's lives - especially poor people - we need to speak out. that's what i think anyway.

these tests are most effective at picking up cannabis as it can be detected for weeks. this drug hysteria is getting out of hand. cannabis might not be good for everyone, but it's better than a lot of other things people do for enjoyment - a harmless, beautiful herb.

i agree with bill hicks - cannabis shouldn't be illegal; it should be mandatory.
 
I disagree that it isn't the taxpayers money for the simple fact that if we didn't pay tax then where would the money come from?

the more tax payers money is wasted or the more money that is spent on policies that are useless the more tax we have to pay. (the drug testing may be a waste of money) but I think spending welfare on illegal drugs is a waste too.

I don't know if you guys realise but it won't be long before certain welfare payments won't be around anymore for instance the old age pension won't be around by the time most of us retire.

Do anyone know how much a drug testing kit costs? I guess the government could get it slightly cheaper if it bought in bulk?
 
What percentage of true dole bludgers are you expecting to catch? I would be surprised if more than 10% of those on the dole are happy not to be searching for work and would rather pull cones all day than get a job. Most people on welfare are doing the right thing and have legitimate reasons for needing this help. The costs of testing the whole population would far out way the few million dollars they would save. Not to mention the poor bastards who get penalised because they happy to be passed a spliff at a BBQ and wanted to escape their dire life for a few hours. We are a wealthy country who should pride themselves on a healthy welfare system. We are hardly like Greece with every man wanting a free handout and not willing to put in.

People should worry more about their own affairs rather than try and destroy the weak and the poor. If you are jealous of their lifestyle pack it in and see how wonderful that life is for your self.
 
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