Drug Harm Alcohol vs Heroin

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Venting spleen at the rate you do to an assumed audience...you got a lot of hate for Will Self but you are rather succesfully imitating him, all be it on the sly.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much! Similar to when gay people who are not out use the word faggot all the time. Just let go MSB! Be who you want to be! Hate Will Self, and yourself at the same time! It is incredibly rare for someone to whole heartedly attempt to emulate someone in their life's work and I can safely say no one on here comes close to Will Self, apart from Blondin maybe...wannabes are either loners, geniuses, murderers or all three.
Stop fighting your love for pretentious writing! YOU FUCKING LOVE IT

You agree Will Self is a pretentious prick then?

Say nice things to me please.

Your tenacity in sticking up for Will Self is admirable

 

[backroll]

I think that as soon as you start using words like pretentious to describe someone that is concerned with the arts (in this case an author/literary historicist/satirical commentator) then the adjective you use is far more loaded on your side than it is on his.

You end up showing yourself to be more concerned with telling people that you dislike him as an idea, not even as a person.
For you this is a black or white, factual point.

Instead you could accept that your's is not the only viewpoint and Will Self isn't so important to get you so excited. And it is your excitement that makes me think there is something about Will Self that you identify with closely enough to react so emotionally.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

I think that as soon as you start using words like pretentious to describe someone that is concerned with the arts (in this case an author/literary historicist/satirical commentator) then the adjective you use is far more loaded on your side than it is on his.

You end up showing yourself to be more concerned with telling people that you dislike him as an idea, not even as a person.
For you this is a black or white, factual point.

Instead you could accept that your's is not the only viewpoint and Will Self isn't so important to get you so excited. And it is your excitement that makes me think there is something about Will Self that you identify with closely enough to react so emotionally.

Gah, I really cba. The guy, in my opinion and it needn't be anyone else's, is a cock. I think that it is far more likely that marmz and yourself identify with him, given that you are defending him.

 

[jspun]

I edited my previous post. As I pointed earlier on the European heroin thread I am comming back from a year of insanely heavy alcoholic drinking.

I'll try to post complications related to opiate abuse and a list related to alcohol abuse: I know I am straying from the recent topic- need to read back through posts but I don't keep up with British jouranalists:

Opiates

Endocarditis/ Cellulitis/ HepC/ Aids from unsanitary IVDU conditions and poor aseptic technique

Overdose (usually related to unknown dose of illicit opiates)

Endocarditis ( Again r/t to poor aseptic technique)

Compliactions associated with contaminates (aka bash).

Asthma, maybe possible COPD from smoking gear.

Constipation induced diverticulosis

Alcohol (Licitly produced- don't get me started on "moonshine" from the rural USA or home brewed alcoholic beverages made in prison)

Liver failure

GI bleeds including esophageal varices

Pancreatitis

Pneumonia

Impaired immune function

Increased risk for developing tuberculosis and other communical disease related to above

Coagulopathy

Malnutrition

Encephalopathy

Korsakoffs syndrome

wernickes syndrome

Hypertension

Cardiomyopathy

Heart Failure

Increase risk of esophageal and possibly stomach cancer

malnutrition- partcularly of thiamine, niacin, and magnessium which are poorly absorbed

Torsades de pointes r/t poor magnesium uptake and other arrythmias

Kidney failure

Trauma

hypoglycemia

Chronic diarrhea, dyspepsia, appetie loss, nuasea/ poor apetite and electrolytes imbalances.

Poor judgement- STDs

Viloence/ Fights- think football hooligans, ect...whats their drug of choice?

Edema and third spacing related to increase fluid intake, decreased albumim production by the liver, and decreased kidney function (collecting duct ADH receptors become desensitized over time.)

Acid/ base imbalances

tremulousness, depression, anxiety, panic disorder, death from acute withdrawl or otherwise (there a a host of binge drinking associated problems).

Heart Disease r/t a number of causes.

Please feel free to add to or contest this list, getting tired of listing complications- with EtOH in particular.

 

[charlie clean]

Oh, Blunty, you are one sinister, uptight sucker. Always an opinion, always a yearning for the last word. Even if the result is rot like 'Pynchon is a bad scientist' - as if fewer people dying young nowadays had anything to do with anything. You didn't understand the post, so it must be 'crap' and, if he writes better, you're probably a nicer person. Read him - the reference was to Vineland - instead of your 'shortcut' magazines and learn. If I give or receive praise, it's brownnosing? You praise nobody but yourself and nobody but yourself praises you - what do you call that? I don't know if you're really a self-important, right wing bore with a troubling martyr complex or if the bluster masks a drug victim too trapped to ask for help. I can see the love in others - even Eireann - but not yours. I try to imagine you at home, with those who love you, laughing over your laptop - but what's the joke? I'm sorry if you find the 'Korean agent' and 'heavenly messenger' riffs poor humour but they're really questions, you see. What are you trying to prove? What are you doing here? This is a frontline drug site, not a college debating society, the idea isnt to score clever 'points' but to rise above the pointless, reduce the damage and get real. You need to stop taking yourself so seriously and everything so personally, appreciate you're just an asshole, same as the rest of us, quit your bollix and join the parade. Go on, lighten up and give it a try...

 

[charlie clean]

Sorry, jspun, should have got my post in before yours. MSB is, if nothing else, a gifted troll who's derailed countless threads to revolve around his absurd self. Thanks for putting this one back on track.

 

[BecomingJulie]

Oh, Charlie, Marmalade, don't waste your effort arguing with Mr Isn't Very Sharp. He's already admitted elsewhere to being a Christian. He doesn't give a damn about reality, let alone subjective opinions about authors whose style requires a conscious effort of will to "get". All he cares about is being better than everybody else -- and getting a ticket to his exclusive fantasy theme park for the dead, strictly no riff-raff allowed. Only, he's secretly terrified that he is going to fail the entrance exam, just like all the other people he sees whom he has been told have already failed and who he cannot help noticing he really isn't any better than.

People like that are allergic to thinking, for fear that their entire worldview might be exposed as fallacious. And their worldview is all they have got.

 

[Ismene]

If you read any of my earlier posts you would see I thought prescribing heroin to addicts was a good thing. But I don't see any use in making heroin legally available to the rest of the public.

So you have to use impure heroin until you're an addict? Does that really make sense?

People like me who go on binges for a few weeks at a time shouldn't be allowed get free heroin. Why should the taxpayer pay for my recreational heroin use when I pose no threat to society?

It wouldn't be free. But it wouldn't be black market. So instead of a tenner for a bag, it would be a tenner for a kilo.

If in an ideal world every susbtance was legal, I do not think we would have a higher number of drug users.

But would a higher number of drug users be a problem? Has the enormous increase in people using legal highs brought society to it's knees?

If you want drugs, you can find them easily enough, legal or not

Not really, unless you know the Taliban warlord packing it, you're going to have trouble getting clean heroin. You're also going to have to dedicate your entire life to coming up with £250 a day to purchase black market heroin.

I saw the Vice documentary in Pakistan, and despite those addicts probably getting almost pure heroin, their lifestyle was, as junkie can be.

There are plenty of solidiers who were addicted to heroin after treatment for wounds, they live perfectly healthy, functioning lives. I think you're talking about a minority of addicts and I imagine the people you're talking about have been persecuted their entire lives and are pretty much wrecks due to prohibition. Remember when opium was legal 100 years ago - the UK was the most powerful country on earth. Now look at it after years of making opiates illegal - it's a Gestapo Khazi.

 

[BecomingJulie]

Legalisation might tempt a few more people to use; but it would also make anyone who started and developed a problem more likely to get help, rather than trying to cover up their habit as a reasonable precaution against legal consequences, and the possibility of being forced to betray their friends. Also, a habit isn't necessarily the same as a problem habit. It's not impossible to hold down a full-time job to support an addiction (never getting too stoned to your job properly, doesn't make you not addicted. After all, a tobacco habit is usually well-managed, but it's a clinical addiction nonetheless.)

Crime for the purpose of funding a habit would be all but eradicated by two factors: Firstly, lower prices would mean fewer people would need to resort to this. Secondly, it reinstates a psychological barrier, by removing the justification "I've already broken the law just by scoring, so I'm already a criminal -- one more crime won't hurt much." Most people do actually have some standards.

The simple fact is, almost every "harmful" aspect of heroin derives from its illegality as opposed to any intrinsic oroperty of tge drug.

 

[koneko]

Oh, Blunty, you are one sinister, uptight sucker. Always an opinion, always a yearning for the last word. Even if the result is rot like 'Pynchon is a bad scientist' - as if fewer people dying young nowadays had anything to do with anything. You didn't understand the post, so it must be 'crap' and, if he writes better, you're probably a nicer person. Read him - the reference was to Vineland - instead of your 'shortcut' magazines and learn. If I give or receive praise, it's brownnosing? You praise nobody but yourself and nobody but yourself praises you - what do you call that? I don't know if you're really a self-important, right wing bore with a troubling martyr complex or if the bluster masks a drug victim too trapped to ask for help. I can see the love in others - even Eireann - but not yours. I try to imagine you at home, with those who love you, laughing over your laptop - but what's the joke? I'm sorry if you find the 'Korean agent' and 'heavenly messenger' riffs poor humour but they're really questions, you see. What are you trying to prove? What are you doing here? This is a frontline drug site, not a college debating society, the idea isnt to score clever 'points' but to rise above the pointless, reduce the damage and get real. You need to stop taking yourself so seriously and everything so personally, appreciate you're just an asshole, same as the rest of us, quit your bollix and join the parade. Go on, lighten up and give it a try...

Sensible and wise take Charlie.

And yes - lets all be here together in this, as we are and stop the infighting please

We're all the same human flesh, bones and souls - we need to be together to inform and support each other and protect the most vulnerable amongst us.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Oh, Charlie, Marmalade, don't waste your effort arguing with Mr Isn't Very Sharp. He's already admitted elsewhere to being a Christian. He doesn't give a damn about reality, let alone subjective opinions about authors whose style requires a conscious effort of will to "get". All he cares about is being better than everybody else -- and getting a ticket to his exclusive fantasy theme park for the dead, strictly no riff-raff allowed. Only, he's secretly terrified that he is going to fail the entrance exam, just like all the other people he sees whom he has been told have already failed and who he cannot help noticing he really isn't any better than.

People like that are allergic to thinking, for fear that their entire worldview might be exposed as fallacious. And their worldview is all they have got.

For someone whose choices in life demand an awful lot of acceptance and understanding from those around them, who complains at length about this, you really are a total cunt. I was born a Christian as much as you were born a woman.

Oh, Blunty, you are one sinister, uptight sucker. Always an opinion, always a yearning for the last word. Even if the result is rot like 'Pynchon is a bad scientist' - as if fewer people dying young nowadays had anything to do with anything. You didn't understand the post, so it must be 'crap' and, if he writes better, you're probably a nicer person. Read him - the reference was to Vineland - instead of your 'shortcut' magazines and learn. If I give or receive praise, it's brownnosing? You praise nobody but yourself and nobody but yourself praises you - what do you call that? I don't know if you're really a self-important, right wing bore with a troubling martyr complex or if the bluster masks a drug victim too trapped to ask for help. I can see the love in others - even Eireann - but not yours. I try to imagine you at home, with those who love you, laughing over your laptop - but what's the joke? I'm sorry if you find the 'Korean agent' and 'heavenly messenger' riffs poor humour but they're really questions, you see. What are you trying to prove? What are you doing here? This is a frontline drug site, not a college debating society, the idea isnt to score clever 'points' but to rise above the pointless, reduce the damage and get real. You need to stop taking yourself so seriously and everything so personally, appreciate you're just an asshole, same as the rest of us, quit your bollix and join the parade. Go on, lighten up and give it a try...

I have put forward actual solid arguments around the topic at hand, and your attempts at satire have been rubbish. Why do you assume that I must not get them if I don't find them funny? I already have observed countless times that I am indeed an asshole. I don't crave appreciation, which is also linked to why I rarely give it.

 

[koneko]

Are you all quite happy to continue to play vitriolic table tennis?

It doesn't make for easy reading tbh and I'm finding the discussion you are all so passionate about gets lost in this way you choose to communicate with each other.

*goes back to knitting*

 

[Marmalade]

I have put forward actual solid arguments around the topic at hand, and your attempts at satire have been rubbish.

You haven't though. And just because you state that you have, doesn't make it so.

You didn't with me either. Your argument was based on not liking the guy due to subjective, and cynical interpretation of his intent. Not only was it based on deep and personal bias on your part, it was a bias that isn't even remotely informed by the main body of his work (abstract fiction), which, by Self's own admission, manages to express what he's trying to say far more accurately than other medium.

That you then went on to quote critics of his books and use them in your 'solid argument' just illustrates your trying to find things to prove your point rather than learn for youself. It would easy for me to counter with solid praise and reviews from academics and well respected politicians, journalists and writers, we can all do that to back up our biases, it's a moot point.

[edit]
I find it amazing that as a 24 year old, you've read, understood, and digested the same level of knowledge, experience and political thought of a 50 year old well lived and respected writer, and know his game in such a way you can wave him off as being a pretentious dick trying to be clever.

What makes you so arrogant and so wise you feel you're capable of assessing that? To me, that's being pretentiously dickish. You're not even remotely in a position to be able to do that. Justifying it with 'someone else agrees with me', therefore I am entitled to that opinion is just bizarre frankly

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

You haven't though. And just because you state that you have, doesn't make it so.

You didn't with me either. Your argument was based on not liking the guy due to subjective, and cynical interpretation of his intent. Not only was it based on deep and personal bias on your part, it was a bias that isn't even remotely informed by the main body of his work (abstract fiction), which, by Self's own admission, manages to express what he's trying to say far more accurately than other medium.

That you then went on to quote critics of his books and use them in your 'solid argument' just illustrates your trying to find things to prove your point rather than learn for youself. It would easy for me to counter with solid praise and reviews from academics and well respected politicians, journalists and writers, we can all do that to back up our biases, it's a moot point.

I am talking about the topic at hand, not Will Self. Once again you try and say that my opinion of him doesn't count and yours is more valid because I haven't forced myself to read one of his shitty pretentious books yet... i'm talking him as a person, and the work he puts into the public eye that I can't help but avoid. You don't seem to realise that you only like him because of a deep personal bias.

[edit]

He has been saying the same shit in the same way since he was about 24, so your point is a bit shit really marmz. But don't worry about that, i'm used to it.

 

[Marmalade]

but it's an INFORMED bias. I understand it's a subjective opinion. that's never been disputed. I never lebelled it anything else. You can't possibly write someone off as being X or Y unless you're actually informed about them, and your infomation is limited. Your opinion about him is next to worthless

[edit]
I find it amazing that as a 24 year old, you've read, understood, and digested the same level of knowledge, experience and political thought as a 50 year old well lived and respected writer, and know his game in such a way you can wave him off as being a pretentious dick trying to be clever.

What makes you so arrogant and so wise you feel you're capable of assessing that? To me, that's being pretentiously dickish. You're not even remotely in a position to be able to do that. Justifying it with 'someone else agrees with me', therefore I am entitled to that opinion is just bizarre frankly

 

[Marmalade]

[edit]

He has been saying the same shit in the same way since he was about 24, so your point is a bit shit really marmz. But don't worry about that, i'm used to it.

And thanks to YOU, MSB, Armchair Wiki Expert, he's now been exposed.

You've got his cards marked. He ain't fooling you, the crafty fucker

LOL

 

[monstanoodle]

My best friend and ladyfriend both rather I smoke gear than drink booze. So much so that they've gone and bought me some for being so good and not drinking (I'm doing really well at the moment despite stressors aplenty)
I mean I've been in hospital once because of booze, never had any negative things happen under the influence of gear... Aside cutting off the circulation to my finger and it needing medical attention lol 8)

But yea, you can use Diamorphine indefinitely with no health qualms (as already mentioned).
Tis purely that Ethanol has been used legally for so many years that it remain legal, and vice versa for Opiates.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

but it's an INFORMED bias. I understand it's a subjective opinion. that's never been disputed. I never lebelled it anything else. You can't possibly write someone off as being X or Y unless you're actually informed about them, and your infomation is limited. Your opinion about him is next to worthless

[edit]
I find it amazing that as a 24 year old, you've read, understood, and digested the same level of knowledge, experience and political thought as a 50 year old well lived and respected writer, and know his game in such a way you can wave him off as being a pretentious dick trying to be clever.

What makes you so arrogant and so wise you feel you're capable of assessing that? To me, that's being pretentiously dickish. You're not even remotely in a position to be able to do that. Justifying it with 'someone else agrees with me', therefore I am entitled to that opinion is just bizarre frankly

This is my point exactly, you believe you are more informed than I am when you simply aren't. You think anyone who disagrees with you on anything is misinformed, and it's a very special sort of arrogance reserved for Will Self style middle class idiots. "O, if he would just 'get it', then there's no way he could disagree with me". You don't seem to realise that thinking, for you, is like your third or even forth function. You think like a child, and if you ever actually manage to grow as you get older and develop that function appropriately you might look back and realise that you were wrong all along, but I doubt it. It's just a part of you that you seemingly willfully neglect. My opinion is of the work that I am subjected to on a regular basis, not on his fiction, that much has been stated already. Even if I read one of his books and enjoyed it, I would still dislike his columns and him as a person.

I don't have to read/understand/digest the same level of political thought he has to say that I don't like the way he goes about things, and the way that he says things. Like I said, he has been singing off the same hymn sheet in the same way since he was my age. It's not like he's developed in any way shape or form in the last two decades. The fact is the majority of people agree with me, not just somebody. You might look around BL with your blinkers on and think you're on the right track, but if you never associate with non-prick middle class liberals you'll never even have a clue what most people in this country think or feel about anything, let alone Will Self.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

And thanks to YOU, MSB, Armchair Wiki Expert, he's now been exposed.

You've got his cards marked. He ain't fooling you, the crafty fucker

LOL

Marmz, you don't realise it because you're one of these people, but really you are just suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect. He plays up to this heightened sense of intelligence you think you have from having an IQ that hovers slightly above average. He is widely regarded in genuinely intelligent circles, not intelligent for a lower middle class person, as a pretentious prick. He is widely regarded in average and below intelligence circles as a pretentious prick. Only one slither of people buy into him and his work. I really don't care if you think you know more because you've read one of his books. It's a self fulfilling argument, because you will always subject yourself to more of his work than I will because I don't enjoy his work. So even if I do read one book, you'll say "yeah but you haven't read 2 books" and so on. Everything Will Self does and says is carefully crafted and thought about to play into this image of him as an intelligent person who should be followed - he surrounds himself with books and art to a ridiculous extent, he smokes pipes, he takes a liberal stance on everything he can etc. And you've bought it hook line and sinker. Most people who possess true intelligence grow out of admiration for people like this i.e. frauds, at a very early age. But those who continue enjoying it into adulthood simply won't be seperated from the crutch that he is, which helps and supports their feelings of superiority over anyone who disagrees.

 

[Marmalade]

I take it you've had him pegged since being in the womb and before that. You really are an oracle, as has been mentioned before here.

I think I am more informed than you are? On Will Self, I know I am. It doesn't make my opinion RIGHT though. My opinion is just that, an opinion. I believe it makes it a valid and informed one though. Currently, based on what you've written so far, yours is neither.

[edit]

Everything Will Self does and says is carefully crafted and thought about to play into this image of him as an intelligent person who should be followed - he surrounds himself with books and art to a ridiculous extent, he smokes pipes, he takes a liberal stance on everything he can etc.
LOL, just looked at your edits. So Self is now being accused of entirely micro manufacturing a carefully his image, right down to a pipe.

Wow. seriously, wow. okay. you win.

He's a charlatan, it's all been done to impress and garner the respect of anyone who'll worship him.

You've won me over. I think it was the quick IQ test you benevolently gave me there which sold it. I bow to your superiour grey matter. I have no other option.

I think you're awesome.