Drug Harm Alcohol vs Heroin

[Treacle]

Funny how the thread died when the vitriol stopped - the way of the world, maybe

I see it in more than just this thread. What's he done, now? Usual? I don't mind the guy, personally. I've said it before, there's been FAR worse members. I've seen him get jumped on, from every angle - it's not just him. Anyway, on with the weather...

 

[Stone84]

Alcohol is far more harmful in the sense that it can cause extreme anti-social behaviour, and it can also totally fuck a persons liver etc.

But what percentage of people who try alcohol go on to become dependent on it?

And what percentage of people who try heroin go on to become dependent on it?

Even if legal heroin eradicated all of the harms that are associated with illicit heroin (infection etc), you can't get away from heroin's extremely high propensity to cause addiction and dependency.

I'm not arguing whether heroin should be legal or not here, I'm just making the point that a far higher percentage of heroin misusers develop heroin dependency, than the percentage of alcohol users who develop alcohol dependency.

 

[Allein]

Alcohol is far more harmful in the sense that it can cause extreme anti-social behaviour, and it can also totally fuck a persons liver etc.

But what percentage of people who try alcohol go on to become dependent on it?

And what percentage of people who try heroin go on to become dependent on it?

Even if legal heroin eradicated all of the harms that are associated with illicit heroin (infection etc), you can't get away from heroin's extremely high propensity to cause addiction and dependency.

I'm not arguing whether heroin should be legal or not here, I'm just making the point that a far higher percentage of heroin misusers develop heroin dependency, than the percentage of alcohol users who develop alcohol dependency.

Those that support the current regime have disseminated misinformation from every angle but the facts remain regardless.

According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Science, 32 percent of people who try tobacco become dependent, as do 23 percent of those who try heroin, 17 percent who try cocaine, 15 percent who try alcohol and 9 percent who try marijuana.

Source - http://behaviorhealth.org/addiction.htm

Many other sets of statistics can be found and all tell a similar story, clearly many factors are in play but the idea the Heroin has a vastly higher potential for addiction than alcohol would appear to be proven wrong.

 

[BecomingJulie]

I'm not arguing whether heroin should be legal or not here, I'm just making the point that a far higher percentage of heroin misusers develop heroin dependency, than the percentage of alcohol users who develop alcohol dependency.

This is a false comparison. You do not develop heroin dependency; you're born with it and you die with it. Heroin is an analogue of a naturally-occurring substance in the body, a hormone which controls the pain regulatory and reward system.

Even if we pretend that a dependency on exogenous opioids is qualitatively different from a dependency on endogenous opioids, your comparison is invalid for 2 more reasons. Firstly, dependency on one substance is not necessarily as bad as dependency on another substance: dependency on nicotine hardly interferes with day-to-day existence. Some opioid in an electronic vaporiser, with an appropriate absorption rate and half-life so as to minimise any initial rush, could easily be used in a five-minute break without leaving a person too stoned to function .

And secondly, the illegality of heroin actively deters people from seeking help at the first sign of a habit (i.e., the very time when it would stand the greatest chance of success). Some fear loss of social status through admitting to breaking the law; others fear being forced to betray the friends they have acquired through their association with the drug.

So, this comparison is not a fair one; but a facile, flawed, fallacious and foolish one.

 

[koneko]

Grim reading.

Scots drug and drink-linked deaths at record level

NSFW:

Drug and drink-related deaths in Scotland have reached record levels, with cases relating to methadone making up almost half the figure.

There were 584 recorded deaths in 2011 - up 99 on the previous year and a 76% increase on 2001.

Heroin substitute methadone was linked to 47% of deaths, with heroin and morphine accounting for a third.

Justice Minister Roseanna Cunningham said the government was committed to helping serious addicts recover.

But opposition parties said the proportion of deaths related to methadone, which is prescribed to help heroin users kick their habit, showed ministers had to rethink their policy.

According to the figures:

Heroin and/or morphine was linked to 206 deaths (35%)

Methadone was linked to 275 deaths (47%)

Benzodiazepines, like diazepam, were linked to 185 deaths (32%)

Alcohol was linked to 129 deaths (22%)

Cocaine, ecstasy and amphetamines were liked to 36, eight and 24 deaths respectively

There have been increases in deaths in six of the past 10 years.
Continue reading the main story
Dr Roy Robertson, Edinburgh GP
Roy Robertson

"The underlying movement in the figures is upwards, sadly, over many years.

In some ways, things are improving.

There's less people coming into opiate use, there's less young people using opiates, so the figures will eventually come down.

But the numbers we're aware of and coming into treatment are increasing all the time.

We do look at other substitute drugs.

We do know from good evidence over many years that methadone is the superior drug, so I guess I would recommend that as a first line treatment for a patient who was having difficulties.

The alternatives may be safer, because they're better supervised and there's a lower risk of overdose during their induction phase, but they are complicated.

They're more expensive treatments, they need more skills, more supervision, a better level of care than we have for just getting people onto the standard treatment.

Our big problem in Scotland is the large percentage of the population at risk who are out of treatment services, so the fundamental issue to is to maximise our treatment."

A total of 36% of deaths were among 35 to 44-year-olds, with people aged 24 to 34 involved in 32% of cases.

Men accounted for 73%, but the increase in the number of drug-related deaths was greater for women - at 117%.

Ms Cunningham, Scotland's minister for community safety, said £28.6m was being invested in drug treatment over 2012-13, while naloxone kits, which help counteract the effects of opiate drug overdoses, were being handed out across Scotland.

She said: "Every one of these deaths is a tragedy and I extend my sympathies to the family members, friends and everyone connected.

"Today's publication once again underlines Scotland has a legacy of drug misuse that stretches back decades, creating this upward 10-year trend in drug-related deaths. Many of those lost to us are older drug users who after years have become increasingly unwell.

"No government has done more to address the legacy and while it will take time to tackle this tragedy, we will do that through continuing to invest and support the recovery of those affected by drugs in Scotland."

Biba Brand, of the Scottish Drugs Forum, said families seeking help for drug problems were now in their third generation.

"Drug-dependency is a chronic, relapsing condition for which there is no single solution and no quick or easy answer," she said.

'Legalised drug-taking'

Labour justice spokesman Lewis Macdonald said: "With a large proportion of deaths involving methadone, it would appear that the approach being taken to treatment isn't working properly and fails to prevent addicts combining drugs into lethal cocktails.

"It isn't good enough for the SNP to say they are spending more money on the same approach."

Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson MSP added: "This appalling loss of life illustrates the human disaster that is the methadone programme.

"It would appear hundreds of families are being blighted by what is little more than legalised drug-taking on an industrial scale."

The Lib Dems' Alison McInnes MSP said: "It is disappointing the community minister made no mention of prevention.

"The starting gun to tackling drug abuse in our communities must be education."

Elsewhere, the figures showed a total of 33% of deaths happened in the Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board area, with the proportion at 13% in Lothian.

The overall figure accounted for 1% of all recorded deaths.