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Do you prefer lies or the harsh truth?

I’m Irish, we are blunt by nature. We aren’t wrapped in cotton wool. We aren’t praised for doing what’s expected of us. Never once has any boss I’ve had ever patted me on the back and said well done. That’s what my pay check is for.

I come across as a bitch I guess sometimes because people don’t get my personality or the fact that as a culture the Irish are blunt and we just aren’t bullshitters. I don’t tell someone I like them unless I like them. If I don’t like you, it’s highly likely I won’t even interact with you.

If I’m critiquing someone it’s because I want them to do better. If I didn’t, I’d sit back, say nothing and let them destroy themselves, ya know?
 
I despise liars. I mean white lies we all tell. But other than that? I don't see the motherf*****g point, ya know?. It's lame af to lie your way through life. Like to be so phony 24/7 has got to suck ass. I prefer the nasty, horrible, dirty truth but sadly it's hard to come by.
 
^ interesting. how do you measure the egregiousness of a lie? in other words, where do you draw the line between a white lie and a lie?

and if you don't see the mf'ing point in lies, why don't you also not see the point in white lies? aren't they all just lies?

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
^ interesting. how do you measure the egregiousness of a lie? in other words, where do you draw the line between a white lie and a lie?

and if you don't see the mf'ing point in lies, why don't you also not see the point in white lies? aren't they all just lies?

alasdair
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You're an overthinker aren't you?
 
just trying to understand how and where you draw the line.

if you're unwilling or unable to answer, no problem.

alasdair
 
Shelbel69 said:
You're an overthinker aren't you?
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Or an underthinker or (probably) a bit of both. They tend to go hand in hand. @alasdairm has a tendency to be intentionally obtuse in order to make people look foolish. To his credit, he is very good at it.

Everybody knows the difference between a white lie and a lie.

Example of a non-white lie: people lie to the government about their income. Most people receive more money in benefits than they pay in tax in Australia.

Example of a white lie: you tell your child their painting is really good.

I'm not sure white lies are necessary, most of the time. It's just taking the easy way out... but clearly there is a difference.
 
Shelbel69 said:
I despise liars. I mean white lies we all tell. But other than that? I don't see the motherf*****g point, ya know?. It's lame af to lie your way through life. Like to be so phony 24/7 has got to suck ass. I prefer the nasty, horrible, dirty truth but sadly it's hard to come by.
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I've always had a standard not to lie to those close to me, or really any individuals, and have saved most of my manipulation for institutions and corporations which personally id get along better with someone who could understand those ethics than someone who couldn't.

As for what I give to others and expect in personal relationships, the truth is the only answer. Many people haven't appreciated my bluntness.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Everybody knows the difference between a white lie and a lie.
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you're making assumptions about me again @birdup.snaildown. i think you should try to do that less.

@Shelbel69 said they despise liars.

that's quite a strong sentiment so, while i appreciate your giving me your opinion on what the difference between a lie and a white is, i'm rather more interested in shelbel69's.

alasdair
 
I wonder if white lies are an important social lubricant. Could we live collectively together - including in romantic couples and families - if we just gave brutal honesty as the answer to every question?

What’s morally worse a white lie or crushing someone’s self-esteem?
 
why is the opposite or alternative to a white lie so often described as brutal (or whatever) honesty.

why isn't it just honesty?

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
why is the opposite or alternative to a white lie so often described as brutal (or whatever) honesty.

why isn't it just honesty?

alasdair
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I guess there are degrees with regular honesty perhaps being unproblematic in social relations but leading all the way to brutal honesty being toxic for such relations.
 
It's "brutal" because people lie to themselves all the time. We are conditioned to ignore what we don't want to hear from a very young age. Our parents lie to us. Our teachers lie to us. People are (misguidedly) afraid of the truth. It is not brutal or harsh, it just appears that way.

alasdairm said:
you're making assumptions about me again @birdup.snaildown. i think you should try to do that less.
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I've known you long enough to make assertions about your character. However, it is (of course) possible that I'm wrong.

Atelier3 said:
I wonder if white lies are an important social lubricant. Could we live collectively together - including in romantic couples and families - if we just gave brutal honesty as the answer to every question?

What’s morally worse a white lie or crushing someone’s self-esteem?
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It depends on the situation. Most of the time white lies are unnecessary. I don't think we need to lie to children. In extreme situations (like with severely disabled people) it becomes more complicated.

Give me an example of "crushing someone's self-esteem" by telling them the truth.

I don't want anyone to lie to me, but I also don't want the truth all the time. If somebody thinks I'm ugly, I want them to tell me the truth if I ask them... but I'd generally prefer it if people don't shout it at me while I'm walking down the street. (Thankfully, I'm gorgeous... so that's not an issue for me.)

People work out the truth eventually, even when others lie to them round the clock. Maintaining any delusion one hundred percent is borderline impossible. Stupid people know they're stupid. Boring people know they're boring. I tend to think that telling them otherwise is insulting to their intelligence. Again, there are extreme exceptions... but (generally) people shouldn't be lied to unless they request it. We deserve to hear the truth. It might hurt at first, but you are healthier in the long-term (psychologically and spiritually) if you accept who you are.

Often autistic people are more honest than neurotypicals. They sometimes find it difficult to operate socially in our world, because we lie. If the world was occupied entirely by ASD folks, I don't think honesty would pose any serious threat to the fabric of society.

I know what you mean about trying not to have opinions, but it's maddening. You need to have opinions to be human... and you do, just as much as anyone else. It's impossible to avoid.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
The number of people who've claimed they prefer the truth is inconsistent with my experiences in conversation.
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I assume most folk would prefer a flattering self serving version of the truth be told about them to everyone else and probably buy into it themselves.





Truth is over rated and no one manages to agree what it is, probably better to stick to lying our arses off equally, know it and move on.
 
Atelier3 said:
I guess there are degrees with regular honesty perhaps being unproblematic in social relations but leading all the way to brutal honesty being toxic for such relations.
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I get in trouble a fair bit at work because so am too blunt with people when I have to figure out how to fix technical issues. That used to be the way and telling trainees what they have done and getting them to fix it was the way to learn.

Nowadays, doing that is called bullying and it's getting to the point of letting the wrong thing be done in order to save feelings. Not great when it's pathology tests and diagnostic but had enough of being told off for getting people to fix their own mistakes, just let them through now to save my job.

Thats work though, not sure about social situations , they are best avoided tbh.

The truth can be sugar coated to be flattering when its needed and can make people feel good but telling someone something they need to know thats bad should be done as blunt as possible to get it over with.

If someone's blunt with me, I assume they are being honest and wave off flowery waffle as bullshit.


Maybe lies are easier, screw the truth, it just leads to arguments and isn't really important anyway .
 
Truth, truth, truth, always the truth. No matter how difficult it is to say it or receive it. Always the truth.

I was a pathological liar for a long time, from a very early age when I was a kid, for most of my life. It was an addiction in itself. But I gradually weaned myself off lying, and about 12 months ago I made the conscious decision that I would ALWAYS tell the truth from now on, regardless of how big, small, significant or insignificant the information is. No more lies, at all, ever.

And I have stuck to it :)

It's been easier than I thought. At first I had to catch myself out sometimes when I was talking to someone and I'd say something, then I'd be like "Hang on sorry, that wasn't entirely true, the TRUTH is XYZ", but now it's habit to tell the whole honest truth about everything.

My partner is a brutally honest person, and I have so much respect for that. He will always tell you the truth about everything, even if it's going to offend you a bit, it's better to be honest.
 
In the moment I probably prefer a white lie, but in the long run I appreciate the truth because it helps me learn and grow as a person..
 
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